Passenger Train Information

[Don Bailey]

Does anyone have any information concerning the train parked behind the grassy knoll? It was the four car Kansas - Missouri train in the railyard as seen in all of the aftermath photos of the parking lot/railyard. Any information would help on the arrival/departure of this train, information on desitination, information on the man who was seen standing on the steps looking into the parking lot during the aftermath of the shooting.

[Michael G. Smith]

Does anyone have any information concerning the train parked behind the grassy knoll? It was the four car Kansas - Missouri train in the railyard as seen in all of the aftermath photos of the parking lot/railyard. Any information would help on the arrival/departure of this train, information on desitination, information on the man who was seen standing on the steps looking into the parking lot during the aftermath of the shooting.

[Larry Hancock]

Don, I'm afraid that is incorrect. The passenger cars were not a "train". The cars were used by the railroad as mobile officers and when

not parked in Dallas they were shuttled out to construction or other work sites were an office was temporarily required. However they

were often in Dallas and you can find various numbers of them in different photos daken over a period of months/years. They were also

used as extra office space there and a gas line was run out to them for heating. It is unclear that they were occupied on Nov. 22 and there

is no record that they were entered or searched although police can be seen outside them and even on top of them.

Lots of folks have made an effort to get more detail including contacting former Dallas RR workers but I'm afraid the info above is pretty

much what we know about them at this time.

-- Larry

Does anyone have any information concerning the train parked behind the grassy knoll? It was the four car Kansas - Missouri train in the railyard as seen in all of the aftermath photos of the parking lot/railyard. Any information would help on the arrival/departure of this train, information on desitination, information on the man who was seen standing on the steps looking into the parking lot during the aftermath of the shooting.

[Don Bailey]

Don, I'm afraid that is incorrect. The passenger cars were not a "train". The cars were used by the railroad as mobile officers and when

not parked in Dallas they were shuttled out to construction or other work sites were an office was temporarily required. However they

were often in Dallas and you can find various numbers of them in different photos daken over a period of months/years. They were also

used as extra office space there and a gas line was run out to them for heating. It is unclear that they were occupied on Nov. 22 and there

is no record that they were entered or searched although police can be seen outside them and even on top of them.

Lots of folks have made an effort to get more detail including contacting former Dallas RR workers but I'm afraid the info above is pretty

much what we know about them at this time.

-- Larry

Thanks Larry,

It looks like a person in a white shirt who is standing at the entrance of one of the passener cars is looking into the parking lot. Some witnesses stated there was a man running towards the train after the shooting. Seems like a good place to hide and change clothes... probably a CIA rental on Nov. 22nd!!

Don

[Steve Thomas]

Peter,

but sadly we have no evidence, as Larry states, that it was used that way or that the DPD or anyone else did what they should have [searched every person, car and traincar in the area behind the fence.]

From the WC testimony of Luke Mooney:

Mr. BALL - When you ran across Elm, where did you go?

Mr. MOONEY - Across Elm, up the embankment, which is a high terrace there, across--there is a kind of concrete building there, more or less of a little park.

Jumped over the fence and went into the railroad yards. And, of course, there was other officers over there. Who they were, I don't recall at this time. But Ralph

Walters and I were running together. And we jumped into the railroad yards and began to look around there.

And, of course, we didn't see anything there. Of course the other officers had checked into the car there, and didn't find anything, I don't believe, but a Negro porter.

Steve Thomas

[Jack White]

Does anyone have any information concerning the train parked behind the grassy knoll? It was the four car Kansas - Missouri train in the railyard as seen in all of the aftermath photos of the parking lot/railyard. Any information would help on the arrival/departure of this train, information on desitination, information on the man who was seen standing on the steps looking into the parking lot during the aftermath of the shooting.

1. It was not a train, but three Pullman cars parked on a siding.

2. It was featured prominently in the movie EXECUTIVE ACTION as a meeting

place for the conspirators. The late Mary Ferrell was the chief source of research

for the movie.

3. The company was not Kansas-Missouri but Missouri-Kansas-Texas (MKT, or Katy),

whose offices were about three blocks east.

Jack

[Don Bailey]

Thanks to everyone for the information! Although I'm not familiar with trains or their procedures... Does it make sense to have a porter on a stationary passenger car that is used by the railroad as a mobile office? To me, the porter is wearing a white jacket which tells me he was not maintenance.

Jack: About number 2... I never knew the late Mary Ferrell was the chief source of research for the EXECUTIVE ACTION movie... I watched that movie for the first time when I rented it back in 1993, also rented your BACKYARD PHOTOS movie. Both are interesting to watch!!

Peter: I do not think the shooter ran to hide in the passenger cars. Hiding the weapon in a car trunk is plausible since at least one witness on a level plain saw what looked like a trunk open in the parking lot.

There is more to discuss but first I need capture some photos from films whenever I get more time....

Don

[Kathleen Collins]

I never said I thought anyone ran to hide in the pullman cars...just that it would be very convenient. Although there is no evidence, if the porter was 'in' on things, he could just tell the police 'no one came here' and make an end of it. Things could also be hidden on the underside of the cars, or the cars just used to visually mask things. I'm very suspicious of the cars and trunks, and the fact that each and every car was not searched along with its trunk and engine is just the way everything went in Dallas.....working very hard NOT to find out what really happened!! On that they did a great job.

Is this the train where they found the 3 tramps? Could the assassins have run to the trains and jump on at one side where the white-shirted man stood, then exit the other side to whatever was behind the train?

Kathy

[Larry Hancock]

Katheleen, these pullman cars have nothing at all to do with the freight train which pulled into the yard from downtown Dallas and in

which Lee Bowers looked down into a hopper car and saw a single tramp, reporting that to police.

As Jack elaborated, these three cars were pullmans and were used to support RR work and field locations with both office and sleeping

facilities.

I'd also be very cautious about the description of a Black "porter", if you check photos you will find a couple of black individuals in

jackets and caps, they have been called parking lot attendants but I'm not sure anyone ever tied down where they did work.

I'd also love to see a single police report stating that an officer actually entered any of the parked pullmen cars...but then none of the

work in the parking lot was really documented and of course DPD did not considere it a crime scene...only the TSBD counted...

-- Larry