Tactic for fighting anti-truth provocateurs

[Jack White]

Subject: Doug Mackenzie to Mark Weitzman

November 21, 2007

Mark Weitzman

Simon Wiesenthal Center

mweitzman@swcny.com

Re: Your November 6, 2007 testimony before the Homeland Security

Subcommittee on Terrorism Risk

Mark Wietzman:

I write this letter to you because I am not in the habit of allowing

an attack upon my character and integrity to go unanswered.

I understand that on November 6, 2007 you testified before Jane

Harman's Homeland Security Subcommittee on Terrorism Risk. During

your testimony it is my understanding that you blatantly, and with

utter disregard for the truth, associated a group that I am a member

of, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (ae911truth.org), with

terrorism and terrorists.

You did this by inserting a slide related to Architects and Engineers

for 9/11 Truth in your PowerPoint presentation along with slides

purporting to be taken from the websites of so-called jihadist groups.

Your related testimony is available on the web at

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fw...H&b=3577145 and a

video of the hearing entitled "Use of the Internet by Terrorists" at

http://www.cspanarchives.org/library/index...cts_id=202123-1

Unfortunately, the video does not show your PowerPoint presentation in

its entirety. Perhaps you will be so kind as to send me a copy?

Please be advised that I intend to seek redress for all damages

suffered as a result of your testimony and your false accusations and

implications. A class action lawsuit seems an appropriate vehicle.

As previously suggested to you, you may want to do a little

investigation of the actual events of September 11, 2001, rather than

relying upon the incomplete and self-contradictory narratives put

forth by the U.S. military and government, and the 9/11 Commission.

I have met and am familiar with many fine people who are demanding a

truly independent investigation of the events of September 11, 2001.

Your eagerness to disparage us allies you with the tyrants of our day.

You and your group may well be remembered historically as an enemy of

freedom and associated with the many servants of tyranny.

If I am mistaken with regard to my understanding of the contents of

your November 6, 2007 testimony and presentation, please advise.

Further, if you have evidence that Architects and Engineers for 9/11

Truth is indeed engaged in violent acts please let me know.

Doug Mackenzie

16350 Soda Springs Rd.

Los Gatos, CA 95033

cc: Jane Harman (CA-36)

Dave Reichert (WA-8)

Bennie Thompson (MS-2)

Mike Honda, (CA-15)

Dianne Feinstein (CA)

Barbara Boxer (CA)

San Jose Mercury News

Los Gatos Observer

9-11-315@meetup.com

bcc: many others

[Charles Drago]

Beautiful, Jack.

Congratulations, Doug Mackenzie.

Both of you understand that we are at war, and that the enemy is deserving of the same tender mercies that were on display in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 and Manhattan's World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9/11/01.

As I stated at a Dealey Plaza memorial and, later that evening during my Lancer presentation, it is up to us to return the fire.

Charles

[John Dolva]

"Simon Wiesenthal Center..."

Posted on: Nov 4 2006

"I understand David Duke is (or was recently) living in the Ukraine and working with the local fascists on his latest piece of revisionism 'the Jews blew up the trade centre'. (something for the piper pushers to think about, no doubt it'll emerge in the near future as a 'credible theory'..."

(Please note: (Jim F. cultists) that Jim bestowed the honor of "persona "no listen to" to me recently. Please obey, just ignore me).

[Jack White]

"Simon Wiesenthal Center..."

Posted on: Nov 4 2006

"I understand David Duke is (or was recently) living in the Ukraine and working with the local fascists on his latest piece of revisionism 'the Jews blew up the trade centre'. (something for the piper pushers to think about, no doubt it'll emerge in the near future as a 'credible theory'..."

(Please note: (Jim F. cultists) that Jim bestowed the honor of "persona "no listen to" to me recently. Please obey, just ignore me).

Huh?

Jack

[John Dolva]

Just to clarify, for those who don't know. The 'Weisenthal Center in Los Angeles' stole its name and was not affiliated with Simon Weisenthal, who I personally was in contact with until his death. I can detail at another time, but they [WC in LA] are right-wing and have US and Israeli intelligence connections and one time [to my personal knowledge] foiled an investigation into the location and disposition [live or dead] of at least one CIA connected HIGH LEVEL! Nazi War Criminal. On general things about the Holocaust, OK, they are correct...but when it comes to the Nazi/fascist - Western Intelligence links, then and now....they are to be take with a truckload of salt......

...so this above doesn't surprise me at all...but please do not let it hurt the good name of Simon Weisenthal.....who at the end of his life hated them in LA!.....

The Nazi they protected for the CIA and as a favor to Mossad for the CIA was Mengele. Posner knows this...and his book on Mengele was to cover it up. [so when he surfaced as the JFK-CIA Mockingbird, I knew all about him for several years!]

Thank you Peter. There should be a law against such name stealing. Look now how it is used to besmirch Simon Wiesenthal (R,I,P,). While I doubt his legacy could be unaware of this theft, (Actionable). I've sent them an email alerting them of it and how it has been used here with links etc. I'll post reply (if I get one).

Edited November 27, 2007 by John Dolva

[Len Colby]

John you make a mistake in assuming that anything Peter says is true especially when he doesn’t provide any citations, (even when he does his claims are often quite dubious).

Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005, the Center was founded in 1977 (1), it’s kind of hard to believe someone as dogged as he was would have accepted his name being stolen for 28 years. At the very least if what Peter says is true he would have made it clear he was not associated with the SWC, but the the opposite seems to be the case. According to the BBC, Jerusalem Post, (Glasgow) Daily Record, Wichita Public Library he said “I have received many honors in my lifetime. When I die, these honors will die with me. But the Simon Wiesenthal Center will live on as my legacy." (2) According to the NY Times he “…lent his name to a Holocaust study center and Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles.” (3) The photo of Wiesenthal below was taken at the opening of the SWC’s Museum of Tolerance in 1993. Ironically Peter is guilty of the type of disinformation Jack was complaining about perhaps one of them can turn up examples of those who oppose them here being guilty of doing so. His (Peter's) disgusting insinuation that Evan was Nazi like on another thread should also be noted.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4856443

Various photos of Wiesenthal at the SWC and/or with SWC officials can be found here:

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fw...zH&b=242620

As for the SWC being rightwing and tied to intelligence agencies perhaps Mr. Lemkin would be so good as to back his claims. I seriously doubt the Mengele claim I'd like to see some evidence. As for the original claim that the SWC libeled AE911T (see Jack’s post) note that Mackenzie’s information was at best 2nd hand (“it is my understanding that “) and he had no evidence to support it. Lack of evidence doesn’t seem to stop “truthers” though. Also AFAIK the SWC isn't involved in the “debate” about whether 9/11 was an “inside job” or not.

I’ll still be busy till Sunday or Monday so don’t expect many posts till then.

Len

1) http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fw...zH&b=242624

2) BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4263670.stm

Jerusalem Post - http://info.jpost.com/C005/Supplements/Wiesenthal/01.html

Daily Record (scroll to middle of page or do a text search) -http://www.highbeam.com/search.aspx?q=Simon+Wiesenthal&ref_id=ency_MALT see full text here http://www.redorbit.com/news/international...l_dies_aged_96/

Wichita PL -http://www.wichita.lib.ks.us/Readers/BookLetters/InTheNews/2005/092105.htm

3) http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/internat...amp;oref=slogin

Edited November 28, 2007 by Len Colby

[Michael Hogan]

John you make a mistake in assuming that anything Peter says is true especially when he doesn’t provide any citations, (even when he does his claims are often quite dubious).....

....As for the SWC being rightwing and tied to intelligence agencies perhaps Mr. Lemkin would be so good as to back his claims. I seriously doubt the Mengele claim I'd like to see some evidence. As for the original claim that the SWC libeled AE911T (see Jack’s post) note that Mackenzie’s information was at best 2nd hand (“it is my understanding that “) and he had no evidence to support it. Lack of evidence doesn’t seem to stop “truthers” though. Also AFAIK the SWC isn't involved in the “debate” about whether 9/11 was an “inside job” or not.

I’ll still be busy till Sunday or Monday so don’t expect many posts till then.

I'm sure for most Forum members the days can't pass quickly enough.

[Charles Drago]

[i would like to ask Mr. Colby point-blank. Have you any connections to Mossad?

Or humanity?

Sounds to me like Colby is calling you a xxxx, Peter.

It's an old, old tactic being used by Colby: Accuse others of the sin of which you're guilty.

Transference is a fascinating phenomenon -- and, in certain cases, a disgusting one.

Charles

[Evan Burton]

Peter,

Apart from being none of your business, I notice you nicely use on Len that character assassination you accuse him of.

You question if he has connections to Mossad, and then also say that if he has he will of course deny it. You damn him no matter his reply.

[Evan Burton]

You are paranoid to the extreme Peter - you must lead a sad existence to have developed that way.

My clearance is of no concern of yours - publicly or via PM. I do not talk about my work - which is a requirement for ALL Australian Defence personnel. If you want to note what SINGAROO is, look it up - it's no secret.

[Evan Burton]

Why is it none of my business if he is an intelligence agent .....

Because it is a standard tactic of yours to question people when you are unable to counter their argument. You are unable to address what they have said, so you try and divert attention away from it. A sign of someone who is poorly skilled in the art of debating.

I have said this before, and no doubt I'll have to say it again: it matters not whether someone is a spook, a journalist, a plumber, or a dentist - if what someone has said is correct, then they are correct. If they are wrong, they are wrong. What is important is what was said - not who said it.

[Charles Drago]

Why is it none of my business if he is an intelligence agent .....

Because it is a standard tactic of yours to question people when you are unable to counter their argument. You are unable to address what they have said, so you try and divert attention away from it. A sign of someone who is poorly skilled in the art of debating.

I have said this before, and no doubt I'll have to say it again: it matters not whether someone is a spook, a journalist, a plumber, or a dentist - if what someone has said is correct, then they are correct. If they are wrong, they are wrong. What is important is what was said - not who said it.

Evan,

You meander around the point like a pheromone-challenged tracking dog.

One of many critical, primary elements in the effort to establish the truthfulness of an assertion is the evaluation of the asserter's motives -- a trying task under the best of circumstances, and one made all the more difficult in the absence of knowledge of key elements of said asserter's personal and professional profiles.

Whatever "Colby" is, it carries the stink of the spook. Peter's questions get to motive, and I stand with him in pressing for answers.

Charles

[Charles Drago]

You are paranoid to the extreme Peter - you must lead a sad existence to have developed that way.

My clearance is of no concern of yours - publicly or via PM. I do not talk about my work - which is a requirement for ALL Australian Defence personnel. If you want to note what SINGAROO is, look it up - it's no secret.

Evan and Peter,

The surveillance aspects of Exercise SINGAROO (the eleventh of such [known] conjoinings of the Singapore and Australian navies and air forces took place in May of this year) surely do peak one's interest.

According to Andrew Forbes, a Visiting Senior Fellow at the Centre for Maritime Policy at Australia's University of Wallongong, SINGAROO is designed to counter the threat of Islamic-based terrorism as it spreads from Indonesia through Malaysia and the Philippines.

Relevant to my previous post: If at least some of this Forbes chap's credentials were not public knowledge, would not our evaluations of the accuracy and truthfulness of his above-reproduced pronouncements regarding the alleged threat's particulars begin on substantively different footing?

The undefined Mr. Forbes v. Senior Fellow Forbes: Two very different animals.

Charles

Edited December 1, 2007 by Charles Drago

[Evan Burton]

If at least some of this Forbes chap's credentials were not public knowledge, would not our evaluations of the accuracy and truthfulness of his above-reproduced pronouncements regarding the alleged threat's particulars begin on substantively different footing?

The undefined Mr. Forbes v. Senior Fellow Forbes: Two very different animals.

Charles

That is why you check the veracity of what has been said. His position does not alter what he has said, and whether or not it is correct.

I understand there are times you may question the background of a person, to determine if - in absence of any other data - what they say is correct (e.g. a professional opinion) or if they are displaying a bias; but when certain statements are made - statements of fact, not opinion - then who utters it is irrelevant. The utterance is either true or false. Len is providing citations / references so anyone can determine if the source for his claims are correct or not. What he does to earn a crust is neither here nor there. If he is wrong, show why he is wrong. If you think the sources are incorrect, unreliable, or biased, then say so. But if what Len has said is correct, then it doesn't matter whether Len was God or Satan or the Purple People Eater; what he said was correct.

[Len Colby]

[i would like to ask Mr. Colby point-blank. Have you any connections to Mossad?

Or humanity?

Sounds to me like Colby is calling you a xxxx, Peter.

It's an old, old tactic being used by Colby: Accuse others of the sin of which you're guilty.

Transference is a fascinating phenomenon -- and, in certain cases, a disgusting one.

Charles

Further, it is cause for banning from this Forum, calling another a xxxx.

No, it’s a violation of the rules which can lead to a warning and perhaps being put on moderation. The same could be said for personally attacking members of the forum by saying things like:

“Mr. Cobly. Mr. Tony van Renterghem is a human - unlike you - just a shell with no heart.”

“you besmirch all Holocaust victims!......”

“I'm sad to share the same chromosomes with beings like you.”

“I saw your name on the bottom of the page when I was posting before [and see it there now waiting my response like a spider?!].”

However I never said or insinuated Lemkin was a xxxx only that I wouldn’t believe something was true just because he said so. I don’t think people should be expected believe anything someone else says here unless they can document it, but that would be especially true in Lemkin’s case because he depends on especially unreliable sources.

Mr. Cobly. Mr. Tony van Renterghem is a human - unlike you - just a shell with no heart. He was Free Dutch Forces during WW2 and a professional Nazi hunter and he and his wife were hired by the LA SWC [aware Mossad was providing help] to find Mengele. They did...and had photos, fingerprints and proof of date of both AFTER it was announced in the press [because of Tony] that Mengele was dead. This monster called Gerald Posner wrote the book with the death of Mengele concealed to hide Tony and his wife's research......you besmirch all Holocaust victims!......Mossad on an urgent appeal from the CIA asked LA SWC to cancel Tony's investigation [because Mengele was on their 'payroll'] and his presentation of his evidence to the LAT was axed in a most ugly fashion....the word censorship comes to mind.

Perhaps Mr. Lemkin would be so kind as to provide evidence of his claims. I won’t bet with him because I have no way of making him pay. His claim about van Renterghem and don’t make much sense the SWC hired them to find Mengele only to bury the information once they found him? How did he, a photographer/cameraman/amateur historian/movie researcher, and she a model/actress succeed where people like Wiesenthal failed? Why is there absolutely no mention of this on the Net? The only info I could find along these lines was that it seems the SWC did indeed hire the Dutchman to find Mengele and that he interviewed a doctor who worked with Mengele and might have had information he was still alive in the 1980's even though various forensic experts agreed that he died in 1979.

I'm broke...so how'z about a bet on this....say $100.000. Half on Tony v. R's story on Mengele and half on an authentic letter from Weisenthal about the 'WC in LA' having stolen his name and besmirched his vision...as you have of our Country. Tony is still alive. I must say, I'm sad to share the same chromosomes with beings like you.

Some guy who: I have no way of obliging to pay me, has no way of paying, and refuses to admit when he’s wrong, wants to bet me a considerable sum of money? I’ll pass. I’d like to see the supposed letter from Wiesenthal and a statement from van Renterghem backing his claims though. What leads me to believe they aren’t forthcoming?