Two bodies at Bethesda?

[Ron Ecker]

According to Billie Sol Estes (in Billie Sol Estes: A Living Legend), who claims to have considerable knowledge about the assassination (ordered, he says, by LBJ), there were two bodies at Bethesda. He says the mortician John Liggett had been told to have a body ready similar in appearance to JFK. Liggett flew with this body, taken from the Dallas morgue, to DC from Love Field aboard a private jet, while JFK's body was flown to Andrews (after the calculated delay of a swearing-in ceremony). Liggett inflicted the body with wounds from the rear. At Bethesda 10 or so photos were taken of each body, with the photos then mixed as needed.

The idea of two bodies, instead of one being stolen and switched from casket to casket (to explain the accounts of David and O’Connor etc.), has a good deal of explanatory power.

It would make more sense for the conspirators to plan to have a substitute body handy as opposed to having to steal JFK's body for whatever wound arrangements were needed. It logically explains Liggett's role in the plot. It explains the discrepancies in the autopsy photos without the need for tampering with any particular photo (e.g. the photo with the back of the head intact). It explains the arrival of two caskets, and it explains the extra body in the morgue that was allegedly that of an Air Force officer.

It also makes more sense of the HSCA interview of Richard Lipsey (aide to General Wehle), who seems to have seen a different body and witnessed a different autopsy than JFK's. Lipsey stated that the body was caked with blood, to the extent that it had to be scrubbed, with one doctor actually getting up onto the table to scrub it, before the autopsy could start. (The Parkland nurses cleaned JFK's body before putting it in the casket. And I don’t recall any other autopsy witness saying the body was covered with dried blood.) Lipsey stated that part of JFK's face had been blown away, which we know is not true. He stated that the only people at the autopsy (other than a few hospital staff who came in and out) were himself (told by Wehle to stay with the body), his cohort Lt. Bird, the gowned doctors, and one other person who was observing. Would he seriously not remember any military brass there, such as Curtis LeMay reportedly in the gallery? How can Lipsey's account be reconciled with accounts that describe the autopsy room as a madhouse, unless Lipsey was in a different autopsy room, watching work being done on a different body, with part of its face missing?

O'Connor mentioned that there was an old autopsy room at Bethesda that was being used for animals. Did Lipsey see an autopsy there, performed on the body that was supplied by Liggett? And did he witness the funeral parlor staff "put JFK's body back together" as he stated, or were there two separate body preparations for burial that night, in keeping with two separate autopsies?

And who is buried in JFK's grave?

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsc...HSCA-Lipsey.htm

Edited November 28, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[Charles Drago]

Bravo, Ron.

Especially for your final question.

[Jack White]

Either David or O'Connor said the floor in the autopsy photos

did not match the floor in the autopsy room.

Jack

[Greg Wagner]

That's a very interesting angle Ron. Didn't Paul O'Connor mention that the body he saw at Bethesda was in a slate gray body bag inside a cheap shipping casket? If so, then this account obviously conflicts with the ornate casket, sans body bag, in which JFK's body left Parkland.

Supposing for a minute that this two body scenario was part of the deal, it then begs the question: Who set-up and managed this shell game at Bethesda? It would be interesting if we could determine if any military brass were at Bethesda prior to the body’s arrival and when they got there.

[Michael G. Smith]

That's a very interesting angle Ron. Didn't Paul O'Connor mention that the body he saw at Bethesda was in a slate gray body bag inside a cheap shipping casket? If so, then this account obviously conflicts with the ornate casket, sans body bag, in which JFK's body left Parkland.

Supposing for a minute that this two body scenario was part of the deal, it then begs the question: Who set-up and managed this shell game at Bethesda? It would be interesting if we could determine if any military brass were at Bethesda prior to the body’s arrival and when they got there.

The whole Bethesda autopsy scenerio reeks of questions. The one presented here begs for answers. Another one that that needs to be addressed is that of Lt. Cmdr. William Bruce Pitzer, whose mysterious death on Oct. 29, 1966, has never been investigated. From what I gather, Mr. Pitzer photographed most of the autopsy while it was being conducted and ongoing. Performing this autopsy was Dr. James J. Humes, and Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, both U. S. Naval Officers who conducted the autopsy on the evening of Nov. 22nd 1963. I may be wrong, but as far as I know, no one has been able to to interview these men concerning specific details of this autopsy under threat of court martial by the U.S. Navy, and other intimidating agencys. This serious unresolved mystery into Lt. Pitzers mysterious death that has gone unresolved for so many years, needs to be addressed. Why have no answers been giving concerning the autopsy on John F. Kennedy? To make matters worse, why have no answers been given into the death of Lt. Cmdr. Pitzer? His family to this point still has no closure into his horrific death of their husband and family man to this day. There are many other Doctors who have not been mentioned here, but they are all involved in the cover up into not only the falsifying of the bodies and autopsies at Bethesda, but also the cover up in the murder of Lt. Cmdr. William Bruce Pitzer. JMO FWIW -MS