Question For Josiah : Hatman 3 and a bit years later

[Bill Miller]

And if you can show me where I said that Zapruder didn't go back towards the shelter, then I would appreciate you pointing it out to me. I am one of the first people who posted that image quite some time ago showing that Zapruder was in the shelter.

Bill Miller

With pleasure.

QUOTE May 7 2008, 02:11 PM)

Zapruder never came back to the pedestal

Bill Miller

What makes you think that ?

Duncan

By correlating the various assassination images.

Bill Miller

End of Quote

So, in your quoted reply above, as anyone can see, you are saying that by correlation, you concluded that Zapruder did not go back to the shelter.

Duncan

Wait a minute while I drop some acid so we can be looking at this with the same mind-set here ...

I told you that Zapruder never went back to the PEDESTAL ... you come along and change what I said to the word SHELTER. So what now ... do you want to play word games or would you like to admit that I was right about being able to correlate the assassination images so to know when Altgens took that photo and in doing so shows that you once again have blown another photo interpretation?

Bill Miller

Edited May 7, 2008 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Pedestal, Shelter, we are talking the same general area, the pedestal runs all the way along to the shelter area.

The only thing that has been blown so far is the hot air coming from the direction of your mouth LOL!!!

Are you still going to ignore the Rickerby image showing the hat BETWEEN the pedestal and the shelter?

Duncan MacRae

The answer to your question is "Yes". The reasons for my ignoring your claim is that a simple cross referencing of the assassination images at the only moment that Zapruder and Sitzman were on the ground together having just dismounted the pedestal ... and before Charles Hester got up off the ground ... there is no third person present. In a good quality photo as I have seen at the Museum ... there is no 3rd party at the pedestal when they dismounted. Even in the medium grade photo below, I can see that you are seeing the back of Sitzman's dark head scarf and trying to make a man's head out of it. I personally would like to see what the world looks like through your eyes just for a few moments, but I am afraid that I might overdose in the process!

[Bill Miller]

So be it...Let's take a closer look for those who don't have Bower Power Vision like you have .

Duncan

So we have this straight ... There is no longer a question in our minds as to when the photo was taken because Charles Hester got up off the ground at the end of Zapruders short walk east before turning back to enter the shelter. The Paschall film, which sat in her closet for countless years, shows Zapruder hopping off the pedestal right next to where Sitzman is standing and Abe started walking away from Marilyn the moment his feet hit the ground. So the idea that the photo was taken at a latter time has all but been removed from the equation.

Next you have already admitted that the Pashcall and Bell films show only Sitzman and Zapruder at or very near the pedestal as Zapruder then immediately walked away. So why are you still posting on an impossibility??? Which wins out ... a rational mind accepting the fact that Zapruder's left arm is extended out towards Sitzman for balance as he hit the ground and that what you call someone's head is nothing more than the back of Sitzman's scarf seen on a black and white image .... or an irrational mind wanting to appear right to the point of ignoring the other assassination images showing you to be wrong once again? I am thinking that the first option will apply to the majority of people while a small fraction who thought the image below was somehow an enhancement of the Black Dog Man will fall under the latter option.

Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

So be it...Let's take a closer look for those who don't have Bower Power Vision like you have .

Duncan

Duncan,

Not quite clear on this.

Are there two men here? One in a hat (yellow oval)?

Is BM suggesting otherwise.

Please elaborate. What's going on here? Thanks.

[Bill Miller]

Firstly you said Bowers could identify a man he could not see,

That is not what I said and I have corrected you several times on the context of that point.

and now you are telling me that Sitman's scarf has a left ear growing out of it LOL!!!

Duncan MacRae

That is also not what I have said. I said that you are misreading the black and white photograph. I said that you are ignoring that the Paschall film and the Bell film shows only Sitzman and Zapruder at the pedestal as Zapruder hops down and immediately walks away. I said that the photograph in question did not come at a later time as you original suggested because of Charles Hester still being seen laying on the ground in that photo. I said that before Zapruder had turned to go back into the shelter that Charles Hester is getting up off the ground in both the Bell and Wiegman films so to race over to the colonnade. You have totally ignored this information so to talk about how a scarf fold looks like an ear ... I find that ridiculous!

Unless you have knowledge that the Bell and Wiegman films have been altered so to hide a man that none of the assassinations seem to show well enough to identify this alleged person ... there isn't even a plausible motive for this claim of yours.

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Firstly you said Bowers could identify a man he could not see,

That is not what I said and I have corrected you several times on the context of that point.

and now you are telling me that Sitman's scarf has a left ear growing out of it LOL!!!

Duncan MacRae

That is also not what I have said. I said that you are misreading the black and white photograph. I said that you are ignoring that the Paschall film and the Bell film shows only Sitzman and Zapruder at the pedestal as Zapruder hops down and immediately walks away. I said that the photograph in question did not come at a later time as you originally suggested because of Charles Hester still being seen laying on the ground in that photo. I said that before Zapruder had turned to go back into the shelter that Charles Hester is getting up off the ground in both the Bell and Wiegman films so to race over to the colonnade. You have totally ignored this information so to talk about how a scarf fold looks like an ear ... I find that ridiculous!

Unless you have knowledge that the Bell and Wiegman films have been altered so to hide a man that none of the assassination images seem to show well enough to identify this alleged person ... there isn't even a plausible motive for this claim of yours.

I think your magic ear is an illusion brought about by the digestion of 'magic mushrooms'.

Bill Miller

Edited May 8, 2008 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Using a simple solarise filter in Photoshop on the image appears to back up the outline of the mystery man. The image I used was the untouched image above. Study carefully

Duncan, you have been presented with evidence to the contrary. Is it your intention not to address the timing of the photo in question and how it plays out against the two films that I have offered as proof to you? You have already admitted that the films I offered as a cross reference did not show a third person at the pedestal, so there seems to be only two alternatives ..........

1) The films are altered

2) You misread the copy print you are using

Which is it????????????

Bill

[Bill Miller]

I knew that the films you offered as a cross reference did not show a third person BEFORE I posted the image of the second man.

There are more alternatives than the ones you offered.

Duncan

I supposed that if someone is lying in bed and they wake up to see what they think is someone standing in the corner of their room, but when they turn on the light they find its only a coat and hat hanging on a hook ... that one option for them is to leave the light off and keep pretending its an intruder. (Give me a break!!!)

I don't see illogical reasoning as an alternative ... I guess thats something else we do not agree on.

Bill

[Alan Healy]

So, Duncan,are you saying that Thompson did not make up the term only?

I'm saying he did not make up the term, yes that's correct

Or are you saying that he does not believe that there is a shooter in that position (west of the fence corner)?

I'm not saying that at all Kathy. All Josiah has told me is that when he went to the plaza he noticed that what he calls a shape in Moorman was not a permanent fixture behind the fence.

If we substitute the term "Thompson figure" , is it then Ok?

As Josiah has not claimed it is a figure, then I don't think Thomson figure would be a correct term.

Kathy.

The shape at the fence in the "SSID" print was what Thompson found & it was never given "that" handle until most likely someone(on a forum somewhere, constantly referred to it as "Hatman" & was picked up & used by others. Very much like "Blackdogman".

That is not a black dog but it's just as catchy & we all know exactly what's being referred to.

Someday everyone will realise it's not a hat just like BDM is not a dog.

As far as "Thompson having never claimed it's a figure" well, would the shape of a gunman fall into the catagory of "a figure"?

Because that is exactly what Josiah proposed to the reader in "SSID".

SSID P:127(hb)

Does the gunman appear in her(Moorman) picture?

The evidence indicates he does, and moreover he appears in the precise location predicticted by the testimony of Hudson, Newman, Holland, Simpson, Dodd.........

So yes, back then, Thompson thought it was a gunman/sniper w/e

He did not consider the hat shape important, if it was/is a gunman like he thought then, he had to have been caught in the act of firing, with both shoulders & head above the fence.

So yes he did indeeed claim it was a figure, the figure of a gunman to be exact.

Fwiw Kathy,

the hat shape is still simply an illusion IMO but that illusion seems to have presidence atm.

Was Groden ever asked if BDM could have really been a dog?

Think about it.

[Alan Healy]

There are otherer interpretations.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/B...ogman/Fixed.png

Don't get transfixed on the illusionary hat.

Study the best image from "SSID".

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/B...opuntouched.png

Edited May 30, 2008 by Alan Healy