John Simkin Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I am sure that people regard me as a complete anarchist because I always decline to vote in local and national elections..... In June, 2004 Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 was released in theaters nationwide. It was a scathing indictment of the Bush regime and their use of false pretexts for invading Iraq. A few months later 80 million eligible American citizens declined to vote in the Presidential election. The rest is history. Or soon to be. Very heartening, Michael. Only 221,139,947 eligible citizens left to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. John...in Texas the PARTIES run all the primary elections. Only GENERAL elections are conducted by the government. This results in huge cost savings for governments, since the PARTIES bear the cost of primaries. In GENERAL ELECTIONS, you may vote for any candidate who qualifies to be on the ballot. There is only one general election every two years, and it is in November. So far this year there have been numerous PRIMARIES in all states, and that is why we have McCain and Obama. They have been elected by PARTIES, not the people. To have participated in this process you must be registered by the PARTY of your choice. In Texas, no "crossover" voting is allowed. Minor parties cannot afford the expense of holding primary elections, so in effect one is disenfranchised unless registered with one of the two major parties who conduct primaries. However, the governments ARE involved in counting the votes, and various entities must verify vote totals; also the governments usually own the voting equipment and store it between elections. Verifying the votes is done by the County Clerk's office and the Texas Secretary of State. I hope this clarifies the matter for you. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. Jack and Peter are misinformed. A Texas voter registration form can be seen here http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/vr17.pdf There isn’t even a space to say what party you belong to. Texas has an open primary system i.e. any voter can vote in any party’s primary (but only for one party per year). In the past they had closed primaries where you could only vote in the primary of the party you registered in. I seriously doubt they had a law forcing people to register as the member or one of the 2 parties to vote in general election as it would violate the 13th Amendment and presumably federal statues. At this point it is to early to tell if 3rd party or independent candidates will hurt Obama or McCain. Nader was one of the main reasons Bush got elected in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Hall Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. Jack and Peter are misinformed. A Texas voter registration form can be seen here http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/vr17.pdf There isn’t even a space to say what party you belong to. Texas has an open primary system i.e. any voter can vote in any party’s primary (but only for one party per year). In the past they had closed primaries where you could only vote in the primary of the party you registered in. I seriously doubt they had a law forcing people to register as the member or one of the 2 parties to vote in general election as it would violate the 13th Amendment and presumably federal statues. At this point it is to early to tell if 3rd party or independent candidates will hurt Obama or McCain. Nader was one of the main reasons Bush got elected in 2000. I would also add that Ross Perot is one of the main reasons that WJC won (with 43% of the popular vote) in 1992. But, I don't see any reasonably strong third party candidates for this year's race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. Jack and Peter are misinformed. A Texas voter registration form can be seen here http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/vr17.pdf There isn’t even a space to say what party you belong to. Texas has an open primary system i.e. any voter can vote in any party’s primary (but only for one party per year). In the past they had closed primaries where you could only vote in the primary of the party you registered in. I seriously doubt they had a law forcing people to register as the member or one of the 2 parties to vote in general election as it would violate the 13th Amendment and presumably federal statues. At this point it is to early to tell if 3rd party or independent candidates will hurt Obama or McCain. Nader was one of the main reasons Bush got elected in 2000. It is Colby who is misinformed. I have voted in Texas for 60 years. He has never voted in Texas. I have not seen a voter registration form in 60 years, because you register ONCE, and it is automatically renewed every year by the state (or it may be every 2 years, I'd have to look). Your voter certificate arrives by mail from the state. The voter certificate allows one to choose which party to vote for by going to THAT party's polling place and voting. Once you vote, you are BOUND TO THAT PARTY FOR THE LIFE OF THAT CERTIFICATE, because the certificate is rubber-stamped VOTED DEMOCRAT or VOTED REPUBLICAN. ONLY IN GENERAL ELECTIONS CAN YOU VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT PARTY, Since only Democrats and Republicans hold primaries, those are the only two parties one can vote for until the general election. Texas prohibits crossover voting except in a GENERAL ELECTION. In a general election, you may vote for any candidate. Colby should stick to subjects he knows, which are few. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Lewis Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) Some from outside the USA might be surprised to learn that in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican (but had to register as a Democrat) - it says it all. One Party, two slightly different 'wings'. For a number of years I have voted Green or Peace and Freedom. It literally took weeks before the internet - now only, maybe a week, to find out how many votes the non-American Business Party candidates got in an election. I guarentee if you look in the NYT - or any mainstream media you will NOT see any other party even mentioned before-during-after an election. Perot was the last I can remember being mentioned - and I believe the threats against him were real. We all remember what happened to Wallace. Any credible threat [sic] against the One Party State is dealt with. A very sad state of affairs is the American polity - and rapidly going from bad to worse. There is very little wiggle room IMO for much worse. The next step is an authoritarian lockdown and rule, overtly, to replace the covert one we now have. I find it amazing that in Texas you have to register either Democrat or Republican before you can vote. Is this true of other states? Who are the third party candidates standing in this election? Will any cause problems for McCain or Obama. Jack and Peter are misinformed. A Texas voter registration form can be seen here http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/vr17.pdf There isn’t even a space to say what party you belong to. Texas has an open primary system i.e. any voter can vote in any party’s primary (but only for one party per year). In the past they had closed primaries where you could only vote in the primary of the party you registered in. I seriously doubt they had a law forcing people to register as the member or one of the 2 parties to vote in general election as it would violate the 13th Amendment and presumably federal statues. At this point it is to early to tell if 3rd party or independent candidates will hurt Obama or McCain. Nader was one of the main reasons Bush got elected in 2000. It is Colby who is misinformed. I have voted in Texas for 60 years. He has never voted in Texas. I have not seen a voter registration form in 60 years, because you register ONCE, and it is automatically renewed every year by the state (or it may be every 2 years, I'd have to look). Your voter certificate arrives by mail from the state. The voter certificate allows one to choose which party to vote for by going to THAT party's polling place and voting. Once you vote, you are BOUND TO THAT PARTY FOR THE LIFE OF THAT CERTIFICATE, because the certificate is rubber-stamped VOTED DEMOCRAT or VOTED REPUBLICAN. ONLY IN GENERAL ELECTIONS CAN YOU VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT PARTY, Since only Democrats and Republicans hold primaries, those are the only two parties one can vote for until the general election. Texas prohibits crossover voting except in a GENERAL ELECTION. In a general election, you may vote for any candidate. Colby should stick to subjects he knows, which are few. Jack How is what he said different from what you are saying? You are not forced to register as a member of a particular party in order to vote in a GENERAL election, only in a primary. And he said that any voter can vote in any party's primary (but only for one party per year). This coincides with what you just said (shouted) which was "BOUND TO THAT PARTY FOR THE LIFE OF THAT CERTIFICATE" assuming the certificate is valid for one year which you even siad you thought it was. He said nothing wrong except for including you as one of the misinformed because you did previously state that one may vote for anyone in a general election but that is a simple mistake as you did not clarify the point that one does not have to register for a particular party to vote in a general election only primaries. So why the hostility? Lighten up Jack. Edited June 13, 2008 by Matthew Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) Lewis is in the same category as Colby...a know-nothing. Jack Edited June 13, 2008 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Lewis Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) Lewis is in the same category as Colby...a know-nothing.Jack What is your problem? I backed you up by said you were NOT misinformed and that Colby was wrong about that. But everything else Colby said was the same as you. So please explain how he or I "know-nothing" when he said the same thing you did and I added nothing new and just pointed out the fact you were saying the same thing. Again, why the hostility? Its really sad that you have to resort to an ad hominem even when you are being agreed with. Edited June 13, 2008 by Matthew Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 It is Colby who is misinformed. I have voted in Texas for 60 years. He has never voted in Texas.I have not seen a voter registration form in 60 years, because you register ONCE, and it is automatically renewed every year by the state (or it may be every 2 years, I'd have to look). Your voter certificate arrives by mail from the state. The voter certificate allows one to choose which party to vote for by going to THAT party's polling place and voting. Once you vote, you are BOUND TO THAT PARTY FOR THE LIFE OF THAT CERTIFICATE, because the certificate is rubber-stamped VOTED DEMOCRAT or VOTED REPUBLICAN. ONLY IN GENERAL ELECTIONS CAN YOU VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT PARTY, Since only Democrats and Republicans hold primaries, those are the only two parties one can vote for until the general election. Texas prohibits crossover voting except in a GENERAL ELECTION. In a general election, you may vote for any candidate. Colby should stick to subjects he knows, which are few. Jack Perhaps 60 years ago you had to declare yourself to be a member of one of the two main parties to vote in the general election though I doubt it. That’s not how it is now. Jack’s and Peter’s statements that this is the case* are false. The fact that there isn’t even a space to indicate what party you want to affiliate yourself with on the current registration form is proof of that. I linked to an official form from the Texas Secretary of State. In the Internet age you no longer need to request the form by mail because you can print it at home. In the past Texas had a closed primary and you could only vote in the primaries of the party you were affiliated with. Jack either sat out the most recent primaries or didn’t notice the change. From the official site of Texas’ Democratic Party Primary Voting Frequently Asked Questions […] I’m not registered as a Democrat/Republican. Can I still vote? Yes. Texas does not require you to register with a party to vote. When you enter the polling location, you will be able to choose the primary ballot (Democratic or Republican) you want to vote. [Return to Top] I have voted Republican before, can I vote in the Democratic primary this year? Yes. Texas has an open primary system, which means you can choose the primary you want to vote in every two years. But perhaps Jack knows better. See also the results of this Google search http://tiny.cc/open327 A page which is still online from the University of Texas indicates the sate has closed primaries but it was 1st posted in early 2005 or late 2004 (the copyright year) and the last election it mentioned was 2002 so presumably the change was recent http://web.archive.org/web/20050204105950/...l/vce/0201.html * Jack said: “In Texas one must register to vote as either a Democrat or Republican in order to vote in any election...so just to vote in local elections, such as city, county and state, in order to register, I state that I am a Democrat, just to have the right to vote.” Peter said: “in many [not all] areas of the USA you must, in order to be able to vote at all, declare yourself either a Democrat or a Republican” False in Texas at least but I doubt it was ever true in any state or at least since the 13th Amendment (1865) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I would also add that Ross Perot is one of the main reasons that WJC won (with 43% of the popular vote) in 1992.But, I don't see any reasonably strong third party candidates for this year's race. The idea that Clinton only won because of Perot is a conservative myth.Exit polls showed an equal number of Perot's voters saying they would have voted for Bush as for Clinton if he had not been a candidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 The biggest danger in electing McCain is the certainty that America's military Keynesianism will continue to accelerate, with all its resultant economic inequities. It's now running at over half a trillion per annum. If it weren't for America's addiction to oil, there would be no need for this egregious largesse granted to the MIC---surely adequate maintenance of eight thousand odd nukes and the capacity to deliver them anywhere would be ample deterrent to any attacker. McCain has pre-emptively attacked Obama, claiming he would typify the big taxing, big spending Democrat template. This is gross hypocrisy coming from such an avid supporter of military spending which exceeds that of all other nations combined. To Republicans, any spending on social programs is waste. They hate social welfare but fully embrace corporate welfare. Corporate bailouts sometimes sound like telephone numbers. Tax breaks for billionaires are also just another form of corporate welfare. Obama has stated he intends to force wealthy Americans to share the burden. Since a severe recession appears certain and a depression is possible, average Americans would be crazy not to give him a chance to implement this promise. What does McCain offer? Zilch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'll take a man with dignity and moral courage and fiftgy IQ points less than a moral midget like Obama. I'm glad I do not have friends like him, that's for sure! What US ally would count on this man's steadfastness? Reminds me of George McGovern who proclaimed he was 1,000 percent behind Eagleton and then a day later threw him to the wolves!Sen. Clinton is not right about many things but she was right about Obama. What is worse - a man who abandons his political friend, or the man who abandons his wife. When McCain got back from Vietnam he discovered that his wife at the time, Carol, a former beauty queen, had been disabled in a car accident. He abandoned her for Cindy Hensley, an heiress whose wealth is estimated at $100m in 1979. Hensley has helped to bankroll her husband's political career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Hall Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 The biggest danger in electing McCain is the certainty that America's military Keynesianism will continue to accelerate, with all its resultant economic inequities. It's now running at over half a trillion per annum. If it weren't for America's addiction to oil, there would be no need for this egregious largesse granted to the MIC---surely adequate maintenance of eight thousand odd nukes and the capacity to deliver them anywhere would be ample deterrent to any attacker. McCain has pre-emptively attacked Obama, claiming he would typify the big taxing, big spending Democrat template. This is gross hypocrisy coming from such an avid supporter of military spending which exceeds that of all other nations combined. To Republicans, any spending on social programs is waste. They hate social welfare but fully embrace corporate welfare. Corporate bailouts sometimes sound like telephone numbers. Tax breaks for billionaires are also just another form of corporate welfare. Obama has stated he intends to force wealthy Americans to share the burden. Since a severe recession appears certain and a depression is possible, average Americans would be crazy not to give him a chance to implement this promise. What does McCain offer? Zilch. What are the corporate bailouts, corporate welfare and tax breaks for billionaires to which you refer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I'll take a man with dignity and moral courage and fiftgy IQ points less than a moral midget like Obama. I'm glad I do not have friends like him, that's for sure! What US ally would count on this man's steadfastness? Reminds me of George McGovern who proclaimed he was 1,000 percent behind Eagleton and then a day later threw him to the wolves!Sen. Clinton is not right about many things but she was right about Obama. What is worse - a man who abandons his political friend, or the man who abandons his wife. When McCain got back from Vietnam he discovered that his wife at the time, Carol, a former beauty queen, had been disabled in a car accident. He abandoned her for Cindy Hensley, an heiress whose wealth is estimated at $100m in 1979. Hensley has helped to bankroll her husband's political career. And this is a distortion of what occurred in 1972. Yes McGovern did say he was behind Eagleton 1,000%. Then the entire press corps began demanding that Eagleton be dropped. It did not let up. No one in the press supported Eagleton remaining on the ticket. Then McGovern caved. And it is rather strange that every ugly rumor about Michelle Obama is all over Fox news but McSame is gettin a pass regarding Carol and their children. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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