Questions for Jack White

[Pat Speer]

Jack, as you know, in 1980 you wrote an article in The Continuing Inquiry about J. Gary Shaw's finding of an 11-30-63 FBI document on the paper bag. This document, as you know, was nearly identical to a document located at CD5 page 129 of Warren Commission's files, with the one difference being that it said the paper bag and the paper sample taken from the TSBD were found "not to be identical." You may not realize, however, that I recently discovered in the FBI files a document confirming that the Dallas FBI, at the request of headquarters, had changed this page on 12-18-63. This confirms your speculation that the changing of the page was a deliberate act by the FBI, and proves that Vincent Bugliosi's explanation for this document is nonsense. Congratulations...

This document can be viewed here:

12-18 airtel.

Anyhow, in concert with the Mary Ferrell Foundation, I'm trying to write an essay on this find, and need your help. In a 2007 post on this Forum you told me that Shaw had found this document in the seventies. This contradicts the claim in many articles on Shaw's find, which places his find in 1980. After a little investigation, however, I found that you are correct, and that Shaw had told the HSCA about this document at the 9-16-77 critic's conference. So...

1. When, to your recollection, did Shaw first find the document?

2. Where, if you can recall, did he find the document? (In the Warren Commission's files? The FBI's files? Which file?)

3. What happened to the document? (Did Shaw just put it back in the box after making a photocopy? If it was loose, did he bring it to the attention of the Archives? Has anyone besides Shaw seen the original document in the files?)

Your help appreciated,

Pat

P.S. If anyone else knew Shaw and has any additional details that can help fill in the blanks, your help will be appreciated as well.

[Jack White]

Jack, as you know, in 1980 you wrote an article in The Continuing Inquiry about J. Gary Shaw's finding of an 11-30-63 FBI document on the paper bag. This document, as you know, was nearly identical to a document located at CD5 page 129 of Warren Commission's files, with the one difference being that it said the paper bag and the paper sample taken from the TSBD were found "not to be identical." You may not realize, however, that I recently discovered in the FBI files a document confirming that the Dallas FBI, at the request of headquarters, had changed this page on 12-18-63. This confirms your speculation that the changing of the page was a deliberate act by the FBI, and proves that Vincent Bugliosi's explanation for this document is nonsense. Congratulations...

This document can be viewed here:

12-18 airtel.

Anyhow, in concert with the Mary Ferrell Foundation, I'm trying to write an essay on this find, and need your help. In a 2007 post on this Forum you told me that Shaw had found this document in the seventies. This contradicts the claim in many articles on Shaw's find, which places his find in 1980. After a little investigation, however, I found that you are correct, and that Shaw had told the HSCA about this document at the 9-16-77 critic's conference. So...

1. When, to your recollection, did Shaw first find the document?

2. Where, if you can recall, did he find the document? (In the Warren Commission's files? The FBI's files? Which file?)

3. What happened to the document? (Did Shaw just put it back in the box after making a photocopy? If it was loose, did he bring it to the attention of the Archives? Has anyone besides Shaw seen the original document in the files?)

Your help appreciated,

Pat

P.S. If anyone else knew Shaw and has any additional details that can help fill in the blanks, your help will be appreciated as well.

Gary had just RECENTLY found the documents, maybe a month before the publication date of the TCI

it ran in, is my recollection. At that time I had been helping him and Penn with the publication, and

did the article because Gary was TOO BUSY to do it and asked me to do it. He told me he had just

made an important find, but did not specify when or how. It is possible that it was even Mary who

discovered it and gave it to him. Mary received BIG BATCHES of documents paid for by her "angel"*

and Gary and Penn often helped her read them, since sometimes they were in the 1000s. I do not

remember the wording I used, but if I said PAPERS FROM THE ARCHIVES, he likely was looking at

them at Mary's house. I do not remember him saying he traveled to Washington. If I previously said

the SEVENTIES, it was from memory. The date would be a month or two before publication.

I cannot answer any of your questions, BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS. Everything I knew

was in the article.

If you will send me an email with the above questions to jwjfk@flash.net, I will forward it to my last

known working email address for Gary. He does not like his email address to be known. He may or may not

reply to you.

Jack

* As I recall, Mary's "angel" was Dallas oilman Arch Kimbrough. He paid for all the documents she

accumulated.

[Pat Speer]

Jack, thanks for your response. I have forwarded the questions to your email address.

FWIW, my belief that Shaw found the document as early as 1977 comes from reading his words on page 185 and 186 at the 1977 Critic's Conference:

Critic's conference

Edited April 6, 2009 by Pat Speer

[Jack White]

Jack, thanks for your response. I have forwarded the questions to your email address.

FWIW, my belief that Shaw found the document as early as 1977 comes from reading his words on page 185 and 186 at the 1977 Critic's Conference:

Critic's conference

I have forwarded your message to the last email address I have for Gary. He may or may not answer.

If he does, I will send it to you.

On the date, you may be right. I may be misremembering. It was about 30 years ago.

Jack

[Pat Speer]

Jack, thanks for your response. I have forwarded the questions to your email address.

FWIW, my belief that Shaw found the document as early as 1977 comes from reading his words on page 185 and 186 at the 1977 Critic's Conference:

Critic's conference

I have forwarded your message to the last email address I have for Gary. He may or may not answer.

If he does, I will send it to you.

On the date, you may be right. I may be misremembering. It was about 30 years ago.

Jack

For those following this thread, Gary did respond, through Jack. He let me know that he found the document in the mid 70's and that the 12-18 airtel I thought I'd discovered was the subject of an article in the May 1985 issue of The Third Decade. Intriguingly, the document change was discussed in the January and March issues as well. These issues and articles can be found here:

The Third Decade

These articles of course raise a question. If Vincent Bugliosi was aware of Jack's article in the Continuing Inquiry, and thought it enough of a problem to try and debunk it, why didn't he acknowledge these subsequent articles confirming Jack's claim? He began research for his book in 1986. These articles were fresh at the time. Was he unaware of The Third Decade? Or was he trying to pull a fast one?

Edited April 6, 2009 by Pat Speer

[Jack White]

Jack, thanks for your response. I have forwarded the questions to your email address.

FWIW, my belief that Shaw found the document as early as 1977 comes from reading his words on page 185 and 186 at the 1977 Critic's Conference:

Critic's conference

I have forwarded your message to the last email address I have for Gary. He may or may not answer.

If he does, I will send it to you.

On the date, you may be right. I may be misremembering. It was about 30 years ago.

Jack

For those following this thread, Gary did respond, through Jack. He let me know that he found the document in the mid 70's and that the 12-18 airtel I thought I'd discovered was the subject of an article in the May 1985 issue of The Third Decade. Intriguingly, the document change was discussed in the January and March issues as well. These issues and articles can found here:

The Third Decade

These articles of course raise a question. If Vincent Bugliosi was aware of Jack's article in the Continuing Inquiry, and thought it enough of a problem to try and debunk it, why didn't he acknowledge these subsequent articles confirming Jack's claim? He began research for his book in 1986. These articles were fresh at the time. Was he unaware of The Third Decade? Or was he trying to pull a fast one?

Thanks, Pat. I look forward to your research on this odd incident. I hope

Gary answered everything you needed. I was glad he responded. He has

more or less retired from research, but has a continuing interest.

Jack