Prince Andrew and Paedophila

[John Simkin]

In 2007 the Kazakh billionaire Timur Kulibayev, and son-in-law of Kazakh president Nursultan Nazarbayev, paid Prince Andrew £15m - £3m over the asking price - for Sunninghill Park, the prince's former home on the edge of Windsor Great Park. Kulibayev has never lived in the home. Nor has anyone else, and has remained deserted, boarded up and increasingly dilapidated and overgrown ever since. Very strange.

[William Kelly]

In 2007 the Kazakh billionaire Timur Kulibayev, and son-in-law of Kazakh president Nursultan Nazarbayev, paid Prince Andrew £15m - £3m over the asking price - for Sunninghill Park, the prince's former home on the edge of Windsor Great Park. Kulibayev has never lived in the home. Nor has anyone else, and has remained deserted, boarded up and increasingly dilapidated and overgrown ever since. Very strange.

It would be a good place for teenagers to break into and throw a party.

[William Kelly]

In 2007 the Kazakh billionaire Timur Kulibayev, and son-in-law of Kazakh president Nursultan Nazarbayev, paid Prince Andrew £15m - £3m over the asking price - for Sunninghill Park, the prince's former home on the edge of Windsor Great Park. Kulibayev has never lived in the home. Nor has anyone else, and has remained deserted, boarded up and increasingly dilapidated and overgrown ever since. Very strange.

It would be a good place for teenagers to break into and throw a party.

[William Kelly]

In 2007 the Kazakh billionaire Timur Kulibayev, and son-in-law of Kazakh president Nursultan Nazarbayev, paid Prince Andrew £15m - £3m over the asking price - for Sunninghill Park, the prince's former home on the edge of Windsor Great Park. Kulibayev has never lived in the home. Nor has anyone else, and has remained deserted, boarded up and increasingly dilapidated and overgrown ever since. Very strange.

It would be a good place for teenagers to break into and throw a party.

That's what they're doing at Ghaddafi's kid's Love Shack.

Libya: Saif Gaddafi's London mansion occupied by squatters - Telegraph

[Don Jeffries]

America has undergone a real transformation on this issue over the past 30 years or so. In the late 1970s, some of the leading "sex symbols" in Hollywood were 12/13 year olds Jodie Foster and Brooke Shields. The acclaimed movie Pretty Baby, made in 1978 and starred a then 12 year old Shields. It featured her fully nude. While it was heralded as great art and played at Cannes, today it would be labeled child porn.

There is a tremendous double standard under the law regarding underage sex. There are far too many young males in prison for long sentences in America, whose only "crime" was having sex with a 15-16-17 year old girl when they were 18 or 19. Meanwhile, athletes and other celebrities are given a pass on this issue. Recently, former New York Giant linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested and charged with soliciting sex from a 16 year old prostitute. The media continuously referred to her as a "prostitute," much as Len referred to an underage girl earlier in this thread. However, when a male from the unwashed masses finds himself in such a situation, the girl is referred to only as a "victim" or "runaway." Any mention of "prostitute" would bring down the wrath of women's groups.

Because of the media's predictably slanted coverage of the Taylor case, the great football hero was allowed to plead guilty to two lesser misdemeanor charges and avoid prison, as those in his exalted social class invariably do. I cannot imagine that there is any similar case on the record books over the past 25 years, of a 51 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl, and dodging prison time altogether. I'm sure the situation in England (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is much the same. I remember vividly reading a blurb in some fluff magazine, circa 1980, about Rolling Stone Mick Jagger's plans to spend the summer in Paris, accompanied only by 15 year old Jodie Foster. Jagger must have been 40 or so at the time. Imagine a construction worker that age being permitted to take a 15 year old girl alone to Paris for the summer. The rich and famous can pretty much do what they want- laws are for the riff raff.

The Franklin Scandal and other cases reveal quite clearly that the elite have an appetite for this sort of thing. Whatever happens in this latest scandal, I don't think Prince Andrew or Epstein will be punished whatsoever. We have our figurative royalty, while England still has her literal royals.

[William Kelly]

America has undergone a real transformation on this issue over the past 30 years or so. In the late 1970s, some of the leading "sex symbols" in Hollywood were 12/13 year olds Jodie Foster and Brooke Shields. The acclaimed movie Pretty Baby, made in 1978 and starred a then 12 year old Shields. It featured her fully nude. While it was heralded as great art and played at Cannes, today it would be labeled child porn.

There is a tremendous double standard under the law regarding underage sex. There are far too many young males in prison for long sentences in America, whose only "crime" was having sex with a 15-16-17 year old girl when they were 18 or 19. Meanwhile, athletes and other celebrities are given a pass on this issue. Recently, former New York Giant linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested and charged with soliciting sex from a 16 year old prostitute. The media continuously referred to her as a "prostitute," much as Len referred to an underage girl earlier in this thread. However, when a male from the unwashed masses finds himself in such a situation, the girl is referred to only as a "victim" or "runaway." Any mention of "prostitute" would bring down the wrath of women's groups.

Because of the media's predictably slanted coverage of the Taylor case, the great football hero was allowed to plead guilty to two lesser misdemeanor charges and avoid prison, as those in his exalted social class invariably do. I cannot imagine that there is any similar case on the record books over the past 25 years, of a 51 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl, and dodging prison time altogether. I'm sure the situation in England (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is much the same. I remember vividly reading a blurb in some fluff magazine, circa 1980, about Rolling Stone Mick Jagger's plans to spend the summer in Paris, accompanied only by 15 year old Jodie Foster. Jagger must have been 40 or so at the time. Imagine a construction worker that age being permitted to take a 15 year old girl alone to Paris for the summer. The rich and famous can pretty much do what they want- laws are for the riff raff.

The Franklin Scandal and other cases reveal quite clearly that the elite have an appetite for this sort of thing. Whatever happens in this latest scandal, I don't think Prince Andrew or Epstein will be punished whatsoever. We have our figurative royalty, while England still has her literal royals.

How could you leave out Roman Polanksi?

[Don Jeffries]

You're right, Bill. An oversight on my part.

However, at least in his case (which happened back when very young girls were openly being marketed as sex objects in Hollywood), he had to flee the country and didn't return.

The fact that so many in Hollywood still defend Polanski is exactly what I'm talking about; the rich and famous are above the law and most of the sheeple shrug and say, "Well, I do love his films/music/athletic skills."

[Len Colby]

America has undergone a real transformation on this issue over the past 30 years or so. In the late 1970s, some of the leading "sex symbols" in Hollywood were 12/13 year olds Jodie Foster and Brooke Shields. The acclaimed movie Pretty Baby, made in 1978 and starred a then 12 year old Shields. It featured her fully nude. While it was heralded as great art and played at Cannes, today it would be labeled child porn.

There is a tremendous double standard under the law regarding underage sex. There are far too many young males in prison for long sentences in America, whose only "crime" was having sex with a 15-16-17 year old girl when they were 18 or 19. Meanwhile, athletes and other celebrities are given a pass on this issue. Recently, former New York Giant linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested and charged with soliciting sex from a 16 year old prostitute. The media continuously referred to her as a "prostitute," much as Len referred to an underage girl earlier in this thread. However, when a male from the unwashed masses finds himself in such a situation, the girl is referred to only as a "victim" or "runaway." Any mention of "prostitute" would bring down the wrath of women's groups.

Because of the media's predictably slanted coverage of the Taylor case, the great football hero was allowed to plead guilty to two lesser misdemeanor charges and avoid prison, as those in his exalted social class invariably do. I cannot imagine that there is any similar case on the record books over the past 25 years, of a 51 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl, and dodging prison time altogether.

The girl in the Taylor case admitted to being a prostitute and said she told him she was 19. I doubt the DA had evidence he knew she was underage. Apparently he provided information against her pimp. Can you point to any cases where a man did prison time for having sex with an underage prostitute when there is no evidence he knew she was underage. Taylor was washed up when he was arrested and had previous legal and drug problems on his resume, it makes little sense to think was let off easy

Cases when a man has sex with an underage girl he knows are different because it is hard to deny her knew her true age.

I'm sure the situation in England (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is much the same. I remember vividly reading a blurb in some fluff magazine, circa 1980, about Rolling Stone Mick Jagger's plans to spend the summer in Paris, accompanied only by 15 year old Jodie Foster. Jagger must have been 40 or so at the time. Imagine a construction worker that age being permitted to take a 15 year old girl alone to Paris for the summer. The rich and famous can pretty much do what they want- laws are for the riff raff.

Are you sure that wasn't just a figment of your imagination. I found no trace of this on the net. Foster studied at Yale and before that at a fancy high school in LA, her father came from money and her mom who was pushing her career.

[John Simkin]

Gary Glitter was jailed in Vietnam for sexually assaulting two girls aged 10 and 11. He had been earlier imprisoned for possessing pornographic images of children on his computer. In a recent episode of Glee, Gwyneth Paltrow, performed "Do You Wanna Touch Me", a song written by Glitter and a big hit in 1973. This has caused a storm in the UK because it is argued that it will earn money for a disgraced Glitter.

[Don Jeffries]

The girl in the Taylor case admitted to being a prostitute and said she told him she was 19. I doubt the DA had evidence he knew she was underage. Apparently he provided information against her pimp. Can you point to any cases where a man did prison time for having sex with an underage prostitute when there is no evidence he knew she was underage. Taylor was washed up when he was arrested and had previous legal and drug problems on his resume, it makes little sense to think was let off easy

Cases when a man has sex with an underage girl he knows are different because it is hard to deny her knew her true age.

I'm sure there are thousands of males in prison all over the world who would love to use the "she said she was 19" excuse. That has never been a viable defense in the United States, unless you are wealthy and/or famous. There have been numerous cases of 18 year old males given prison sentences for having sex with 16 or 17 year old girls who told them they were 18. And if you think that women's groups wouldn't have objected to any underage girl being referred to as a "prostitute," if the accused had been an average Joe Pack, then you don't know much about American culture. It's the same way with drunk drivers- M.A.D.D. (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) is responsible for making the DWI laws much tougher, but is always silent when a pro athlete or other celebrity is the one driving drunk, and invariably gets off with no real punishment.

Are you sure that wasn't just a figment of your imagination. I found no trace of this on the net. Foster studied at Yale and before that at a fancy high school in LA, her father came from money and her mom who was pushing her career.

All I remember is reading a blurb about it, in some fluff magazine (probably People).

Pete Townsend of the Who is another rock star, who was caught with a ton of child porn on his computer. He came up with the novel defense that he was "researching" the subject. Again, there are countless men in prison who would love to use that defense.

[Len Colby]

The girl in the Taylor case admitted to being a prostitute and said she told him she was 19. I doubt the DA had evidence he knew she was underage. Apparently he provided information against her pimp. Can you point to any cases where a man did prison time for having sex with an underage prostitute when there is no evidence he knew she was underage. Taylor was washed up when he was arrested and had previous legal and drug problems on his resume, it makes little sense to think was let off easy

Cases when a man has sex with an underage girl he knows are different because it is hard to deny her knew her true age.

I'm sure there are thousands of males in prison all over the world who would love to use the "she said she was 19" excuse. That has never been a viable defense in the United States, unless you are wealthy and/or famous. There have been numerous cases of 18 year old males given prison sentences for having sex with 16 or 17 year old girls who told them they were 18. And if you think that women's groups wouldn't have objected to any underage girl being referred to as a "prostitute," if the accused had been an average Joe Pack, then you don't know much about American culture. It's the same way with drunk drivers- M.A.D.D. (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) is responsible for making the DWI laws much tougher, but is always silent when a pro athlete or other celebrity is the one driving drunk, and invariably gets off with no real punishment.

See if you can actually cite cases of men being given prison time for single counts having sex with underage prostitutes who themselves admit they told the ‘john’ they were above the age of consent. It is not always easy to know someone’s age just by looking at them. When I was 28 I was about to take a midnight ‘walk on the beach’ with a Brazilian girl who I assumed to be 18 – 19 but she told me was 14 which I only believed when she showed me her ID.

See also if you can cite any cases of women's groups objecting to girl's being described as prostitutes when the girls themselves admitted to this.

Are you sure that wasn't just a figment of your imagination. I found no trace of this on the net. Foster studied at Yale and before that at a fancy high school in LA, her father came from money and her mom who was pushing her career.

All I remember is reading a blurb about it, in some fluff magazine (probably People).

Pete Townsend of the Who is another rock star, who was caught with a ton of child porn on his computer. He came up with the novel defense that he was "researching" the subject. Again, there are countless men in prison who would love to use that defense.

Though he paid for access Townsend it seems did NOT download any images and had previously campaigned against kiddie porn.

"After four months of investigation by officers from Scotland Yard's child protection group, it was established that Mr Townshend was not in possession of any downloaded child abuse images."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/may/08/arts.ukcrime

Edited March 12, 2011 by Len Colby

[Douglas Caddy]

Prince Andrew's link to sex offender Jeffrey Epstein taints royalty in US

The Duke of York's friendship with billionaire convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein has put him on American front pages

By Paul Harris in New York

The Observer, Sunday 13 March 2011

The British press has a new admirer. Spencer Kuvin, a Florida lawyer who has fought several cases for young women alleging sexual abuse by the disgraced billionaire Jeffrey Epstein, is delighted – and relieved – that newspapers are now examining Prince Andrew's relationship with the convicted paedophile.

"I am glad the British press has picked this up," Kuvin told the Observer. "The British people have a right to ask why he [Prince Andrew] is hanging out with a convicted paedophile. I think that is a very good question to be asking."

Kuvin has been asking it for a while. He believes Epstein has in effect got away with most of his crimes because of his wealth and his connections with the powerful and well-connected across America and the world.

"He's fine. He has a great life," he said of the man who spent less than two years in jail after pleading guilty to child sex offences.

That is probably true. Florida law allows anyone to find out the whereabouts of a convicted sex offender via an online database. According to the website last week Epstein's location was St Thomas in the US Virgin Islands in the Caribbean. He owns a private island there: one that Prince Andrew has visited. "Epstein is probably sunning himself on a beach right now," Kuvin said.

The same cannot be said for the Duke of York. This weekend, as he considers the parlous state of his international reputation, he is likely to feeling a lot less comfortable than his one-time party friend.

It was not meant to be this way for the prince. America is supposed to be a happy hunting ground for the British royal family. It is a place where the people see them as exotic celebrities to be feted, admired and placed alongside the homegrown "royalty" of Hollywood.

American citizens and politicians – freed from the burdens of paying for a civil list of their own – can indulge in the sort of innocent worship of monarchical "glam" that typified Britain in the 1950s.

So recent headlines in the US media have come as a bit of a shock. "Seen around town: Prince Andrew and Perv Billionaire," blared the New York Post. "Duchess of York apologises for accepting money from sex offender," read the New York Daily News. So much for the eager anticipation of a slew of good publicity around the marriage of Prince William and Kate Middleton.

It was not just the American tabloids. Even the Wall Street Journal ran a lengthy piece last week prompted by the fallout from Prince Andrew's long friendship and close relations with Epstein, 58, who served 18 months for sexual offences involving underage girls. No wonder New York Post columnist Andrea Peyser weighed in on the controversy about what she called a "bromance" between the pair. Prince Andrew, she concluded, was an "idiot prince".

It is hard to fathom the depths of the PR disaster that continues to unfold around the prince because of his links to Epstein. After he was snapped walking side by side with Epstein through Central Park last December, Andrew has seen his entire globetrotting existence as a trade ambassador put under the microscope. It has not borne up well.

Suddenly his life and times partying with Epstein have become public knowledge, complete with sordid details of being surrounded by young women and being present at topless pool parties. A woman, Virginia Roberts, who provided sexual services for Epstein and his rich friends while underage, saw the photograph and decided to speak about her experiences. Another picture rapidly surfaced, of Roberts side by side with the prince. To cap it all, Andrew's links to a whole series of unpleasant developing world autocrats and dictators have also come under fresh examination.

None of it has made a pretty picture and the royals – perhaps typically – have been slow to react in any meaningful way. First, the problem was ignored. Then it was dismissed. Only now, belatedly, have they begun to address it with reports that the Queen has talked to Andrew privately. It feels too little, too late.

Like many Europeans, perhaps, Andrew enjoyed the US because of the freedom and opportunities it afforded. The social scene in glittering hotspots like Manhattan and Florida's Palm Beach allowed him to free himself from the stuffy world of aristocratic Britain. He was courted and won over by the rich elite and he repaid the compliment.

No one knows why the prince carried on such a close friendship with a figure like Epstein for so long or why he refused to end it after Epstein went to jail. The facts alone should have been a warning sign. Epstein, a working class Brooklyn boy who became a super-wealthy money manager, was one of the world's most renowned playboys. But in 2008, after a three-year investigation into the young women he and his entourage procured, he wound up in jail. Nor was it an isolated incident. Epstein's case was ended via a plea bargain where he admitted guilt on a charge of felony solicitation of prostitution involving a minor. Yet as many as 40 young women had made allegations against him and, unusually, his plea deal allowed other accusers to sue him in civil court. So far at least 17 of them have settled civil cases against him.

The American drama is far from over for the prince. Instead the legal wranglings around Epstein and his exotic lifestyle threaten to drag the royal family right into the US court system.

Epstein is now suing Brad Edwards, a lawyer for some of the girls from the original investigation. In turn Edwards is counter-suing Epstein, alleging that the billionaire is using his vast resources to pursue expensive legal cases and thus intimidate other victims and their legal representatives. Either way, Andrew could be pulled into the mess as a witness. Edwards's lawyer, Jack Scarola, said last week that his team intended to try and get a statement from the prince about what he may or may not have seen while attending parties with Epstein.

Though the prince is likely to claim diplomatic immunity, that step will not keep his name out of the court papers or the headlines: it will just keep his presence out of the courtroom.

The same thing goes for previous cases involving Epstein. They amount to a potential source of PR torture for the royal family as media scrutiny continues. Recently released documents from a different case showed that two of Epstein's closest confidantes – his PA Sarah Ellen and an on-off girlfriend, Nadia Marcinkova – were repeatedly questioned by Kuvin about whether the prince had been involved in sexual acts with any of Epstein's entourage of young women. Both Ellen and Marcinkova declined to answer the questions and instead took the Fifth Amendment, which allows their legal silence.

Of course, there is no evidence or suggestion that Andrew was involved. But in PR terms there does not need to be. There is even a small chance that the FBI will use some of the new revelations emerging in the media to reopen the criminal case against Epstein, though legal experts think it unlikely.

Even the hint of a possibilty of a federal probe is another reason for the headline writers to start sharpening their pens for those with links to Epstein.

Prince Andrew is not the only one. Epstein has partied in New York with numerous people since he left jail, including big names and celebrities like Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos and Woody Allen. Perhaps they too should have known better.

[Douglas Caddy]

Duke of York's friend could be back in US courts

Lawyers to question Prince Andrew's sex offender associate.

The Independent

By Jonathan Owen

Sunday, 13 March 2011

The Duke of York's attempts to quell the furore surrounding his relationship with the billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein appeared doomed this weekend when it emerged that more lurid details are to be aired in a US court within the next two weeks.

Buckingham Palace was forced to deny that the Duke of York had postponed plans for a trip to Saudi Arabia next week, because of negative media coverage, amid reports in some media that the controversy had made him "toxic". A spokesman said: "Buckingham Palace has never announced any overseas visits for the Duke of York."

The issue refuses to die down, with two Lib Dem ministers breaking rank last night and privately suggesting they think Prince Andrew should quit as trade envoy. One said: "If he was a politician doing this, he would have gone by now, and rightly so." Another added: "That in the 21st century we should be putting up with this is obscene. It is incredibly difficult for the Government, more so the Tory side, but it cannot carry on."

Even attempts by supporters to rally to his cause have been of mixed benefit. The Duchess of York's apology for a "gigantic error of judgement" in accepting money from Epstein only served to fuel reporting, as did reports of the Prince's links to Kazakhstan and the socialite Goga Ashkenazi, who is reported to have had been involved in the sale of the Duke's home to Kazakh oil billionaire Timur Kulibayev. There was also criticism last week when it emerged that the prince lobbied MP Mark Field this week to help to boost UK exports to oil-rich Azerbaijan, a country with a questionable human rights record.

Now US lawyers hope to use a legal dispute between Epstein and Brad Edwards, a Florida attorney, to insist that Epstein reveal more about his relationship with the prince. Epstein will be questioned on allegations he procured sexual favours from minors for friends and forced to answer allegations that he abused up to 40 girls. Many of the most damaging recent headlines about the Duke of York have centred around a photograph of him with his arm around a girl who claims she was abused by Epstein.

Jack Scarola, one of the lawyers close to the case, said: "We are in the process of scheduling a further deposition of Mr Epstein at which we intend to question him regarding the details of his child abuse, including all circumstances in which he may have been involved in procuring sexual favours from minors for his high-profile friends."

Asked whether the duke was with Epstein when minors were present, he said: "The details of that relationship will be a subject of inquiry when Mr Epstein's testimony is taken." The FBI is said to be ready to reopen its criminal investigation into Epstein, convicted in 2008 for soliciting an underage girl for prostitution. A number of women are challenging a plea bargain deal which allowed the billionaire to avoid trial. Epstein, 58, was sentenced to 18 months in prison after admitting two sex offences.

None of this will help Prince Andrew's attempts to damp down coverage questioning his judgement and his choice of associates as he travels the world as a commercial envoy for the UK.

Additional reporting by Andrew McCorkell, Emily Dugan and Matt Chorley