Steven Gaal Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) POST #14 shows UN has no proof Syrian government behind Houla murders. You say this not relevent, I say relevent. +=========================================================== Also = Dont take my word (you said," Id take your word" for it Re: rebels controlled Houla last two weeks (with sarcasm)) Who said rebels controlled Houla ? ANSWER = Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov Edited June 13, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 POST #14 shows UN has no proof Syrian government behind Houla murders. You say this not relevent, I say relevent. +=========================================================== Also = Dont take my word (you said," Id take your word" for it Re: rebels controlled Houla last two weeks (with sarcasm)) Who said rebels controlled Houla ? ANSWER = Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov It is often hard to prove things in the midst of a civil war, according to the UN and most news outlets witnesses told them forces tied to Assad were responsible. I’ll ask you the question you keep dodging. The questions you’ve dodged are,“If the Assad regime has nothing to hide was doesn't it allow foreign journalists into the country and intimidate the few who are there? They recently arrested a Brazilian reporter. And why do they so limit the number and movement of UN observers? They are obviously the ones with something to hide.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) I control part of Colby's house. Colby knows Im framing up a patsy (Colby) for murder. Colby blocks journalists from coming into the house till he gets back control. Colby thinks himself a rational man. Colby thinks Assad not rational. ++++++++++++++ Gee, If so scenario happened,Steve would say loudly......Mr. Double standard has entered the room. Purposeful lack of imagination on Colby's part ?? JUST asking.......... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Gee the frame up IS happening in real life......real people being murdered...... Colby care ....... ????? Was Houla Massacre a Manufactured Atrocity? Posted on 06/14/2012 by Steve Rendall It's been widely reported that on May 25, pro-Syrian forces massacred 108 civilians in the Syrian village of Houla, including 34 women and 49 children, many of whose throats were cut. The reported atrocity has sparked the latest round of appeals for intervention in the conflict in Syria. Syrian diplomats have been expelled from several countries over the massacre, including by U.S., Britain, France, Australia and Canada; "Syrian Diplomats Expelled Across World as Outrage Over Houla Massacre Grows," the British Guardian (5/29/12) declared. "Who Will Stop the Massacres?" asked the headline on a May 29 Washington Post editorial. As the editors explained: "Horrific as it was, the Houla massacre is not unique, just better documented than the crimes perpetrated by the regime of Bashar al-Assad in towns and cities across Syria." The editorial accused the Obama administration of inaction—"declining to exercise the U.S. leadership that would be required to stop the massacres"—and hiding behind U.N. negotiator Kofi Annan. The Chicago Tribune (5/28/12) ran a typical news story on the massacre, reporting that Syrian Americans were demonstrating for U.S. intervention after "more than 100 people, including women and children, lay dead in the Syrian town of Houla, the latest victims of Assad's violent rule, according to United Nations observers." The Tribune said "follow-up reports" on Sunday indicated "that as many as 49 children were among them. Many were shot in the head or their throats were slit." ABC's Christiane Amanpour (6/8/12) quoted one "highly placed Syrian insider" saying that the massacre was part of a program of ethnic cleansing: "What's emerging is a campaign of ethnic cleansing. These massacres [are] used by the Syrian president to expel populations disloyal to him and to consolidate control in what might become a divided Syria." But is the Houla massacre really "better documented" than other atrocity stories emerging from Syria? On June 7, a major fissure began to appear in the storyline, when leading German daily newspaper Frankfurter Allegemeine Zeitung (FAZ) quoted sources who said that the Houla massacre was carried out by anti-Assad Sunni militants, and that their victims were nearly all Alawi and Shia—populations traditionally loyal to Assad. According to Syria expert Patrick Seale (Agence Global, 6/12/12) ,who quoted translated parts of the German story, FAZ sources said after the killings, "the perpetrators then filmed their victims and, in videos posted on the internet, presented them as Sunni victims of the regime." On June 7, the BBC began to back away from its earlier stories that had reported the conventional line, blaming pro-government forces for a massacre that including the cutting of women's and children's throats. As the UK media watch group Media Lens (6/13/12) reported: Last week, however, in what might almost be interpreted as a mea culpa, the BBC’s World News editor, Jon Williams, began a June 7 blog emphasizing "the complexity of the situation on the ground in Syria, and the need to try to separate fact from fiction." This was a surprising emphasis—the BBC had previously communicated no sense of "complexity" in blaming the Syrian government. Williams continued: In the aftermath of the massacre at Houla last month, initial reports said some of the 49 children and 34 women killed had their throats cut. In Damascus, Western officials told me the subsequent investigation revealed none of those found dead had been killed in such a brutal manner. Moreover, while Syrian forces had shelled the area shortly before the massacre, the details of exactly who carried out the attacks, how and why were still unclear…. In Houla, and now in Qubair, the finger has been pointed at the shabiha, pro-government militia. But tragic death toll aside, the facts are few: it's not clear who ordered the killings—or why. Williams added: Stories are never black and white—often shades of grey. Those opposed to President Assad have an agenda. One senior Western official went as far as to describe their YouTube communications strategy as "brilliant." But he also likened it to so-called "psy-ops," brainwashing techniques used by the U.S. and other military to convince people of things that may not necessarily be true. A healthy scepticism is one of the essential qualities of any journalist—never more so than in reporting conflict. The stakes are high–all may not always be as it seems. As Williams now avers, it is hard to tell what's true when it comes to Syria; independent reporters or observers are not able to operate freely, and have been endangered by both sides. It is fair to assume by many accounts that the Syrian government is likely responsible for a lion's share of the violence. It is also fair to assume that various rebel factions have acted with brutality. So, yes, a healthy skepticism is required–preferably before publication—of tendentious, one-sided stories that cannot be confirmed independently. The cost of getting things wrong can be enormous. We still don’t know with certainty what happened in Houla on May 25. But if it turns out that rebels did the killing, this story may end up ranking with such false but effective stories of war-mongering propaganda as the the tales of German soldiers catching Belgian babies on bayonets in World War One, or Iraqis removing Kuwaiti babies from incubators in advance of the 1991 Gulf War. Edited June 15, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks for challenging this Len, First BBC radio reports from witnesses and survivors all said both attacks were preceded by artillery and the insurgents don't have that capability. I am heartened however, in the Ruskie's report that the insurgents now have expert snipers who claim ten soldiers a day, as they cannot continue that attrition, if it is true. It's ironic that the people's revolutionary Russians who are on the side of the tyrants and oppose the popular uprising that is neither a communist nor an Islamic revolution but a democratic one. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Libya has become a madhouse of tribal and religious conflicts, and a country where competing mafias have sliced up the country, united only by their subservience to the commercial interests of their creator and benefactor, NATO. (Prof. M.D. Nalapat The author is director and professor of the School of Geopolitics at Manipal University in India.) ----------------------------- Bill Kelly calls it democracy in action but I call it recolonization with no stabilty. ================ Africa and the Middle East: Recolonisation and the Crisis of the Nation State by Prof. Ali Kadri http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I control part of Colby's house. Colby knows Im framing up a patsy (Colby) for murder. Colby blocks journalists from coming into the house till he gets back control. Colby thinks himself a rational man. Colby thinks Assad not rational. ++++++++++++++ Gee, If so scenario happened,Steve would say loudly......Mr. Double standard has entered the room. Purposeful lack of imagination on Colby's part ?? JUST asking.......... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Amazing I am being accused of holding a double standard based on what you imagine would be my reaction to your deeply flawed analogy: i) though he seems to think of it as such Syria is NOT Assad’s personal property ii) the people fighting him are not outsiders but Syrians whose “house” it is too iii) Assad does have blood on his hands he is not “a patsy”. A better analogy would be to gated community where a single homeowner seized control, ran it for his own benefit and that of his minority ethnic group and used the security guards and other staff to suppress the rest of the residents. He could claim that he was running the community for the benefit of all and blame protests on trouble makers but if he refused to let the press and other outside observers in one would have to question why. But even accepting your flawed analogy in such a situation I would have no reason to not want outsiders to observe what was really going on. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Gee the frame up IS happening in real life......real people being murdered...... Colby care ....... ????? I could just as legitimately ask if you care, tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, similar numbers arrested and many more injured, hundreds of thousands have been displaced, do you care about all of them or only the Christians? Was Houla Massacre a Manufactured Atrocity? Posted on 06/14/2012 by Steve Rendall It's been widely reported that on May 25, pro-Syrian forces massacred 108 civilians in the Syrian village of Houla, including 34 women and 49 children, many of whose throats were cut. The reported atrocity has sparked the latest round of appeals for intervention in the conflict in Syria. Syrian diplomats have been expelled from several countries over the massacre, including by U.S., Britain, France, Australia and Canada; "Syrian Diplomats Expelled Across World as Outrage Over Houla Massacre Grows," the British Guardian (5/29/12) declared. Finally you have produced reasonably strong evidence forces allied with Assad might NOT be responsible for Houla, there now seems to some doubt. But even IF anti-Assad forces were responsible for that incident it doesn’t change the fact the vast majority of the victims mentioned above were Sunnis. The ‘uprising’ began as peaceful protests which were supressed by the security services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 16, 2012 Author Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) POPULAR ?? http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=29234 ################################################################## ################################################################## Ironically, despite its authoritarian nature, there is considerable popular support for the government of President Bashar Al Assad, which is confirmed by the large pro-government rallies. Syria constitutes the only (remaining) independent secular state in the Arab world. Its populist, anti-Imperialist and secular base is inherited from the dominant Baath party, which integrates Muslims, Christians and Druze. It supports the struggle of the Palestinian people. The objective of the US-NATO alliance is to ultimately displace and destroy the Syrian secular State, displace or co-opt the national economic elites and eventually replace the Syrian government of Bashar Al Assad with an Arab sheikdom, a pro-US Islamic republic or a compliant pro-US "democracy". --------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ POPULAR ?? http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=28722 A demonstration in support of Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, in Damascus. 'Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war.' Photograph: Hussein Malla/AP Suppose a respectable opinion poll found that most Syrians are in favour of Bashar al-Assad remaining as president, would that not be major news? Especially as the finding would go against the dominant narrative about the Syrian crisis, and the media considers the unexpected more newsworthy than the obvious. Alas, not in every case. When coverage of an unfolding drama ceases to be fair and turns into a propaganda weapon, inconvenient facts get suppressed. So it is with the results of a recent YouGov Siraj poll on Syria commissioned by The Doha Debates, funded by the Qatar Foundation. Qatar's royal family has taken one of the most hawkish lines against Assad – the emir has just called for Arab troops to intervene – so it was good that The Doha Debates published the poll on its website. The pity is that it was ignored by almost all media outlets in every western country whose government has called for Assad to go. The key finding was that while most Arabs outside Syria feel the president should resign, attitudes in the country are different. Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders. What is less good news for the Assad regime is that the poll also found that half the Syrians who accept him staying in power believe he must usher in free elections in the near future. Assad claims he is about to do that, a point he has repeated in his latest speeches. But it is vital that he publishes the election law as soon as possible, permits political parties and makes a commitment to allow independent monitors to watch the poll. Biased media coverage also continues to distort the Arab League's observer mission in Syria ...... ################################################ ################################################ OUTSIDERS ?? http://www.globalres...xt=va&aid=26019 NATO and the Turkish High command, also contemplate the development of a jihad involving the recruitment of thousands of freedom fighters, reminiscent of the enlistment of Mujahideen to wage the CIA's jihad (holy war) in the heyday of the Soviet-Afghan war: Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria. (Ibid, emphasis added) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OUTSIDERS ?? http://nsnbc.wordpre...-stage-for-war/ In late February, 13 French military officers were arrrested in Homs at the height of the armed insurrection, pointing to the presence of foreign troops on Syrian soil in derogation of international law. The Daily Star (March 5, 2012) report suggested that the arrested officers could have been part of “a larger contingent” of French special forces operating within the ranks of the rebel Free Syria Army (FSA): “It was not clear why the officers were in Syria, when they had arrived or whether they were part of a larger contingent in the city [Homs]. Strategic Homs was targeted in a 26-day shelling bombardment by the Syrian Army, which overran the city where anti-Assad protests and Free Syrian Army operations have been focused. (The Daily Star March 5, 2012) The French government initially denied the report, insisting that “not a single French soldier is on Syrian soil.” Yet sources confirmed that negotiations between Paris and Damascus were held, in all probability regarding the repatriation of the French military officers: “A French Foreign Ministry spokesman said: “We deny the idea that there are French troops on the ground in Syria. A Defense Ministry spokesman added: “We have no information on this. We neither confirm nor deny it.” According to various reports in the British media, the “Daily Star … the supposed French captives were being held in a field hospital in Homs.”(Report: 13 French officers captured in Syria – Israel News, Ynetnews, Italics added) While this arrest of military officers from a NATO member country was barely mentioned by the Western media, it is by no means an isolated incident. This is not the first time that foreign forces are arrested in Syria since the outset of the insurgency. There is evidence of large numbers of foreign troops on the ground inside Syria including British, French, Turkish and Qatari special forces, British MI6 intelligence operatives as well a large numbers of mercenaries from Arab countries: “As the unrest and killings escalate in the troubled Arab state, agents from MI6 and the CIA are already in Syria assessing the situation, a security official has revealed. Special forces are also talking to Syrian dissident soldiers. They want to know about weapons and communications kit rebel forces will need if the Government decides to help.” “MI6 and the CIA are in Syria to infiltrate and get at the truth,” said the well-placed source. “We have SAS and SBS not far away who want to know what is happening and are finding out what kit dissident soldiers need.” ” (Syria will be bloodiest yet, Daily Star). (emphasis added) The Elites Forces UK website acknowledges that: “British Special forces have met up with members of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)… The apparent goal of this initial contact was to establish the rebel forces’ strength and to pave the way for any future training operations. … More recent reports have stated that British and French Special Forces have been actively training members of the FSA, from a base in Turkey. Some reports indicate that training is also taking place in locations in Libya and Northern Lebanon. British MI6 operatives and UKSF (SAS/SBS) personnel have reportedly been training the rebels in urban warfare as well as supplying them with arms and equipment. US CIA operatives and special forces are believed to be providing communications assistance to the rebels.” Elite Forces UK, January 5, 2012 (emphasis added) NATO Recruits Mujahideen Mercenaries Mercenaries from Arab countries are operating within highly trained terrorist brigades, financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In this regard, Israeli intelligence sources (August 2011) point to the direct involvement of NATO in the recruitment of jihadist “Muslim Volunteers”, in coordination with the Turkish military: “Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria.” (http://www.debka.com/article/21255/ Debkafile, August 31, 2011 emphasis added) In Homs, the Al Qaeda Faruq Brigade which includes mercenaries from Libya and Iraq have been involved in terrorizing the civilian population. They “have succeeded in expelling most of the Christians in Homs and have seized their homes by force”. “Snipers were stationed in the street … preventing people from leaving their homes for two months, targeting passers-by and cars and anything that moved in the streets, adding that the terrorists also robbed houses, committed massacres, murders and kidnapping.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OUTSIDERS ?? http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31451 The participation and death of Spanish mercenaries in armed actions in Syria was revealed by local media today. The Syrian news agency SANA quoted reports from the Spanish dailies El Pais and El Mundo, which reported the death of the first Spanish terrorist in this country. Both publications indicated that Spanish citizen Rachid Hussain Mohamed or Rachid Wahbi, born in Ceuta 32 years ago, who had worked as a taxi driver, died somewhere in Syria. The circumstances of his death are unknown. Certainly, another two residents from Ceuta, Mustafa Mohamed Abselam, alias "Tafo" and Mustafa Mohamed Layachi, alias "Piti", traveled to Syria through Turkey to join the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood, said El Mundo. It added that one of them is still missing and it was the third one who called to find out what had happened to his partners and raise the alarm. For its part, El Pais assured that authorities are investigating how they were recruited, who paid for their trip, which route they followed and whether they coordinated with young Moroccans from Castillejos and Tetouan from which at least a dozen would-be jihadists also departed. It also added that all apparently travelled through the eastern provinces of Turkey, where the militia of the so-called Syrian Free Army (ESL) have a wide margin in which to maneuver. Edited June 17, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Ironically, despite its authoritarian nature, there is considerable popular support for the government of President Bashar Al Assad, which is confirmed by the large pro-government rallies. Syria constitutes the only (remaining) independent secular state in the Arab world. Its populist, anti-Imperialist and secular base is inherited from the dominant Baath party, which integrates Muslims, Christians and Druze. It supports the struggle of the Palestinian people. "Independent"? - This is obviously code word for not aligned with the US, Syria is tied to Iran, Russia and China. How is it any more independent then Saudi Arabia? “Authoritarian”? - Try police state. “Dominant…party”? - Try only legal one. “Integrates [sHIA] Muslims, Christians and Druze” - perhaps but not the Sunni majority. “It supports the struggle of the Palestinian people” true but there are many claims in your posts the opposition is backed by radical Islamists, IF that is true presumably they would as well. The objective of the US-NATO alliance is to ultimately displace and destroy the Syrian secular State, displace or co-opt the national economic elites and eventually replace the Syrian government of Bashar Al Assad with an Arab sheikdom, a pro-US Islamic republic or a compliant pro-US "democracy". Pure speculation. --------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ POPULAR ?? http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=28722 A demonstration in support of Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, in Damascus. 'Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war.' Photograph: Hussein Malla/AP Suppose a respectable opinion poll found that most Syrians are in favour of Bashar al-Assad remaining as president, would that not be major news? Especially as the finding would go against the dominant narrative about the Syrian crisis, and the media considers the unexpected more newsworthy than the obvious. Alas, not in every case. When coverage of an unfolding drama ceases to be fair and turns into a propaganda weapon, inconvenient facts get suppressed. So it is with the results of a recent YouGov Siraj poll on Syria commissioned by The Doha Debates, funded by the Qatar Foundation. Qatar's royal family has taken one of the most hawkish lines against Assad – the emir has just called for Arab troops to intervene – so it was good that The Doha Debates published the poll on its website. The pity is that it was ignored by almost all media outlets in every western country whose government has called for Assad to go. The key finding was that while most Arabs outside Syria feel the president should resign, attitudes in the country are different. Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders. What is less good news for the Assad regime is that the poll also found that half the Syrians who accept him staying in power believe he must usher in free elections in the near future. Assad claims he is about to do that, a point he has repeated in his latest speeches. But it is vital that he publishes the election law as soon as possible, permits political parties and makes a commitment to allow independent monitors to watch the poll. LOL - This sounds impressive but only 97 – 98 Syrians participated which is obviously too small a sample to be reliable. And even worse, it was an INTERNET SURVEY which even with large samples in countries with widespread Internet access are totally unreliable; according to the UN only about 18% of Syrians have Internet access and they of course would tend to be from the middle and upper classes which are predominantly Alewite/Shia and Christian. The site even allows an unlimited number of respondents from the same household. Even the company that ran the survey told the BBC (paraphrase) ‘the poll was not intended to be representative of all Syrians’. In any case as noted “half the Syrians who accept him staying in power believe he must usher in free elections in the near future” and the survey was taken 6 months ago it is reasonable to assume that as the situation has deteriorated and Assad shown no signs of want to hold elections he has lost support. One also has to wonder about how forthcoming people living in a brutal police state would about their opinions regarding the ruling regime; the Net is widely censored in Syria. To make a long story short the poll especially as a reflection of the views of Syrians today is worthless. Despite that it was hardly suppressed, besides the Guardian columnist it was reported by the NYT (in an Op-Ed), The New Republic, Counterpunch, Asia Times, Countercurrents – The American Conservative, Al-Jazeera (Arabic) and PressTV among others. The BBC and the Daily Beast (the online version of Newsweek) covered it but criticized the 55% claim. Sources: http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/doha/polling/YouGovSirajDoha%20Debates-%20President%20Assad%20report.pdf http://my.yougovsiraj.com/faq.aspx http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155349 http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/02/an-incredibly-misleading-poll-on-syria.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/19/syrian-poll-assad-no-credibility http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2012/blog1201.htm Internet censorship in Syria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Syria http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/syria-tightens-control-over-internet http://digitaljournal.com/article/314208 Biased media coverage also continues to distort the Arab League's observer mission in Syria ...... ################################################ ################################################ OUTSIDERS ?? http://www.globalres...xt=va&aid=26019 NATO and the Turkish High command, also contemplate the development of a jihad involving the recruitment of thousands of freedom fighters, reminiscent of the enlistment of Mujahideen to wage the CIA's jihad (holy war) in the heyday of the Soviet-Afghan war: Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria. (Ibid, emphasis added) “Contemplate”? “Discussed”? As in thinking about but have not done yet? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OUTSIDERS ?? http://nsnbc.wordpre...-stage-for-war/ In late February, 13 French military officers were arrrested in Homs at the height of the armed insurrection, pointing to the presence of foreign troops on Syrian soil in derogation of international law. The Daily Star (March 5, 2012) report suggested that the arrested officers could have been part of “a larger contingent” of French special forces operating within the ranks of the rebel Free Syria Army (FSA): “It was not clear why the officers were in Syria, when they had arrived or whether they were part of a larger contingent in the city [Homs]. Strategic Homs was targeted in a 26-day shelling bombardment by the Syrian Army, which overran the city where anti-Assad protests and Free Syrian Army operations have been focused. (The Daily Star March 5, 2012) The French government initially denied the report, insisting that “not a single French soldier is on Syrian soil.” Yet sources confirmed that negotiations between Paris and Damascus were held, in all probability regarding the repatriation of the French military officers: “A French Foreign Ministry spokesman said: “We deny the idea that there are French troops on the ground in Syria. A Defense Ministry spokesman added: “We have no information on this. We neither confirm nor deny it.” According to various reports in the British media, the “Daily Star … the supposed French captives were being held in a field hospital in Homs.”(Report: 13 French officers captured in Syria – Israel News, Ynetnews, Italics added) While this arrest of military officers from a NATO member country was barely mentioned by the Western media, it is by no means an isolated incident. This is not the first time that foreign forces are arrested in Syria since the outset of the insurgency. The Daily Star attributed the story to unidentified “sources” and didn’t even inform its readers if they were Syrian, Lebanese, French or from somewhere else. According to a commenter “[Egyptian newspaper] El Ahram claims that [Lebanese Baath Party leader] Assem Kanso was the source of it.” Odd that not even the Syrians said this, there don’t seem to be any photos or video of the supposed captives and seemingly no else reported it. “The French government” didn’t only “INITIALLY den[y] the report” they never acknowledged it. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Mar-05/165514-13-french-officers-being-held-in-syria.ashx#ixzz1y3Y9AMiR But it would not surprise me if at this point other countries were helping the rebels which does not go to say they are not a legitimate Syrian movement, the Sandinistas and ANC received help from the Soviets and Cubans and America would probably have remained a British colony if it wasn’t for aid from France and Spain. Did aid from the USSR delegitimize the Spanish government during their Civil War? There is evidence of large numbers of foreign troops on the ground inside Syria including British, French, Turkish and Qatari special forces, British MI6 intelligence operatives as well a large numbers of mercenaries from Arab countries: “As the unrest and killings escalate in the troubled Arab state, agents from MI6 and the CIA are already in Syria assessing the situation, a security official has revealed. Special forces are also talking to Syrian dissident soldiers. They want to know about weapons and communications kit rebel forces will need if the Government decides to help.” “MI6 and the CIA are in Syria to infiltrate and get at the truth,” said the well-placed source. “We have SAS and SBS not far away who want to know what is happening and are finding out what kit dissident soldiers need.” ” (Syria will be bloodiest yet, Daily Star). (emphasis added) Great a Daily Star article with unnamed “sources” and no confirmation from other media again. The Elites Forces UK website acknowledges that: “British Special forces have met up with members of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)… The apparent goal of this initial contact was to establish the rebel forces’ strength and to pave the way for any future training operations. … More recent reports have stated that British and French Special Forces have been actively training members of the FSA, from a base in Turkey. Some reports indicate that training is also taking place in locations in Libya and Northern Lebanon. British MI6 operatives and UKSF (SAS/SBS) personnel have reportedly been training the rebels in urban warfare as well as supplying them with arms and equipment. US CIA operatives and special forces are believed to be providing communications assistance to the rebels.” Elite Forces UK, January 5, 2012 (emphasis added) This is an anonymously run private website that cites no sources, even so there is nothing about foreign forces IN Syria. NATO Recruits Mujahideen Mercenaries Mercenaries from Arab countries are operating within highly trained terrorist brigades, financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In this regard, Israeli intelligence sources (August 2011) point to the direct involvement of NATO in the recruitment of jihadist “Muslim Volunteers”, in coordination with the Turkish military: “Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria.” (http://www.debka.com/article/21255/ Debkafile, August 31, 2011 emphasis added) In Homs, the Al Qaeda Faruq Brigade which includes mercenaries from Libya and Iraq have been involved in terrorizing the civilian population. They “have succeeded in expelling most of the Christians in Homs and have seized their homes by force”. “Snipers were stationed in the street … preventing people from leaving their homes for two months, targeting passers-by and cars and anything that moved in the streets, adding that the terrorists also robbed houses, committed massacres, murders and kidnapping.” This would be quite shocking if true but the story traces back to an obscure website that seems to be pro-Assad http://spectator.org/archives/2012/04/23/nizar-nayouf-al-haqiqa-and-syr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=30031 ===================== The Elites Forces UK website acknowledges that: "British Special forces have met up with members of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)... The apparent goal of this initial contact was to establish the rebel forces' strength and to pave the way for any future training operations. ... More recent reports have stated that British and French Special Forces have been actively training members of the FSA, from a base in Turkey. Some reports indicate that training is also taking place in locations in Libya and Northern Lebanon. British MI6 operatives and UKSF (SAS/SBS) personnel have reportedly been training the rebels in urban warfare as well as supplying them with arms and equipment. US CIA operatives and special forces are believed to be providing communications assistance to the rebels." Elite Forces UK, January 5, 2012 (emphasis added) http://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-military-news/0501012-british-special-forces-syria.php ============================= NATO Recruits Mujahideen Mercenaries http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/nato-giving-libya-rebels-intelligence-to-help-track-gadhafi-1.380608 (similar) Mercenaries from Arab countries are operating within highly trained terrorist brigades, financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In this regard, Israeli intelligence sources (August 2011) point to the direct involvement of NATO in the recruitment of jihadist "Muslim Volunteers", in coordination with the Turkish military: "Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria. (,http://www.debka.com/article/21255/ Debkafile, August 31, 2011 emphasis added) In Homs, the Al Qaeda Faruq Brigade which includes mercenaries from Libya and Iraq have been involved in terrorizing the civilian population. They "have succeeded in expelling most of the Christians in Homs and have seized their homes by force". "Snipers were stationed in the street ... preventing people from leaving their homes for two months, targeting passers-by and cars and anything that moved in the streets, adding that the terrorists also robbed houses, committed massacres, murders and kidnapping." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 http://www.globalres...articleId=30031 ===================== The Elites Forces UK website acknowledges that: "British Special forces have met up with members of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)... The apparent goal of this initial contact was to establish the rebel forces' strength and to pave the way for any future training operations. ... More recent reports have stated that British and French Special Forces have been actively training members of the FSA, from a base in Turkey. Some reports indicate that training is also taking place in locations in Libya and Northern Lebanon. British MI6 operatives and UKSF (SAS/SBS) personnel have reportedly been training the rebels in urban warfare as well as supplying them with arms and equipment. US CIA operatives and special forces are believed to be providing communications assistance to the rebels." Elite Forces UK, January 5, 2012 (emphasis added) http://www.eliteukfo...orces-syria.php ============================= NATO Recruits Mujahideen Mercenaries http://www.haaretz.c...adhafi-1.380608 (similar) Mercenaries from Arab countries are operating within highly trained terrorist brigades, financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In this regard, Israeli intelligence sources (August 2011) point to the direct involvement of NATO in the recruitment of jihadist "Muslim Volunteers", in coordination with the Turkish military: "Also discussed in Brussels and Ankara, our sources report, is a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Middle East countries and the Muslim world to fight alongside the Syrian rebels. The Turkish army would house these volunteers, train them and secure their passage into Syria. (,http://www.debka.com/article/21255/ Debkafile, August 31, 2011 emphasis added) In Homs, the Al Qaeda Faruq Brigade which includes mercenaries from Libya and Iraq have been involved in terrorizing the civilian population. They "have succeeded in expelling most of the Christians in Homs and have seized their homes by force". "Snipers were stationed in the street ... preventing people from leaving their homes for two months, targeting passers-by and cars and anything that moved in the streets, adding that the terrorists also robbed houses, committed massacres, murders and kidnapping." I’ve already addressed all this crap except the Ha’aretz article which is about LYBIA, the most obvious reason for you to keep repeating yourself is that you’ve got nothing new to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Why I started Houla the 'Real" story thread,because you wouldnt get the truth from the MSM. Those who stand with MSM on Houla ,stand on shakey ground. BBC ,et al with looney war games story. MSM dud again.REPEAT LOONEY WAR GAMES. War-Frames: Mainstream wages Syria dis-info campaign ================ http://revolutionary...?video_id=19205 ######################### To honor the MSM I offer this musical theme for the looney war game story they give. The MSM: arrogant and coo coo , arogant and coo coo Houla part of a larger disinformation campaign. Edited June 20, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The video link doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Libya has become a madhouse of tribal and religious conflicts, and a country where competing mafias have sliced up the country, united only by their subservience to the commercial interests of their creator and benefactor, NATO. (Prof. M.D. Nalapat The author is director and professor of the School of Geopolitics at Manipal University in India.) ----------------------------- Bill Kelly calls it democracy in action but I call it recolonization with no stabilty. ================ Africa and the Middle East: Recolonisation and the Crisis of the Nation State by Prof. Ali Kadri http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=31423 We shall see, as the revolution is still continuing, not only in LIbya, but in Syria, where the Ruskies dizinfo agents are working overtime. Let's ask the Libyans if they want Gadhafi and stability or democracy and variety of cultures and lifestyles. It took USA seven years to win their revolution and fight a civil war before things settled down. Death to Tyrants! Assad is next. Then on to Bahrain. You are stuck in the past. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) The video link doesn't work http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=19205 Video link is fine. You need to defragment your MSM on your computer. (get a much better view of world). Edited June 21, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Libya has become a madhouse of tribal and religious conflicts, and a country where competing mafias have sliced up the country, united only by their subservience to the commercial interests of their creator and benefactor, NATO. (Prof. M.D. Nalapat The author is director and professor of the School of Geopolitics at Manipal University in India.) ----------------------------- Bill Kelly calls it democracy in action but I call it recolonization with no stabilty. ================ Africa and the Middle East: Recolonisation and the Crisis of the Nation State by Prof. Ali Kadri http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=31423 We shall see, as the revolution is still continuing, not only in LIbya, but in Syria, where the Ruskies dizinfo agents are working overtime. Let's ask the Libyans if they want Gadhafi and stability or democracy and variety of cultures and lifestyles. It took USA seven years to win their revolution and fight a civil war before things settled down. Death to Tyrants! Assad is next. Then on to Bahrain. You are stuck in the past. BK ++++++++++++++++++++++ Gee Bill this quote below is the latest from Lybia.THE LATEST !! Libya has become a madhouse of tribal and religious conflicts, and a country where competing mafias have sliced up the country, united only by their subservience to the commercial interests of their creator and benefactor, NATO. (Prof. M.D. Nalapat The author is director and professor of the School of Geopolitics at Manipal University in India.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 50 min ago !! (stuck in past the past ?? not me ) Snatched and detained: Libya's "jungle law" Related News Libya says it wants ICC's cooperation over detained staff Sat, Jun 16 2012 Syria in civil war, U.N. official says Tue, Jun 12 2012 British envoy's convoy ambushed in Libya, two wounded Mon, Jun 11 2012 ICC lawyer held in Libya faces 45-day detention Mon, Jun 11 2012 ICC sends team to Libya after delegation detained Mon, Jun 11 2012 PHOTO NOT UPLOADED (You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community.) 1 of 2. Al-Amin Al-Sahli shows the bruises and whip marks on his body as he receives treatment after being held in detention, in a hospital in Misrata June 9, 2012. Credit: Reuters/Stringer By Marie-Louise Gumuchian TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Abdulnasser Ruhuma was asleep in his bed when the militia fighters barged into his Tripoli home. The shouting woke the Libyan bank worker and he rushed downstairs to find around 40 men pointing their rifles at him. Moments later they started beating him. Ruhuma's wife and relatives begged the intruders to stop but they dragged him and his uncle away. Punched, hit with rifle butts and cut with knives, Ruhuma was taken to a makeshift detention center in the middle of the night. In a stark reminder of the lawlessness that prevails in Libya eight months after the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi, the gunmen never told Ruhuma why they abducted him. He says it stems from a family issue - a relative wanted revenge, so he called on the help of an armed brigade. "We weren't told anything, we were just beaten - our hands, our legs, our bodies," the 42-year old father-of-two said. "I thought I would never make it out alive." Libya's aspirations to replace Gaddafi's repressive rule with an ordered, democratic nation are being undermined by increasingly wayward volunteer militias who operate outside the control of fragile state institutions. The militias attract most attention when, mounted on their battered pick-up trucks with anti-aircraft guns welded to the back, they fight pitched battles in city streets against rival groups, usually over some perceived slight or a dispute over territory. But it is their less visible activities that have done the most to puncture the sense of euphoria and freedom that followed Gaddafi's downfall. Human rights groups have documented a series of cases of militias going to people's houses, spiriting them away and, often, beating and torturing them. Ruhuma was released only after his relatives called government security forces for help. They found him a few hours later. "We hear on television that Libya is secure, but after what I have seen, there is no security. How is this possible? There are armed gangs pretending to be revolutionaries," Ruhuma said. "This is some kind of jungle law." THE REAL POWER ON THE GROUND Militias spearheaded the rebellion that ended Gaddafi's rule. While many have scaled back their activities, gone back to their home towns or merged into national security services, others have yet to lay down their arms. The lack of an effective national police force and army mean many of the militias have more power on the ground than Libya's official rulers. In the last few weeks, Reuters reporters have heard of cases of Libyans taken from their homes or from the street by armed groups. One of Reuters' Libyan members of staff was briefly detained and beaten following a dispute over a parking space. "We have received complaints about people being tortured - taken, detained for a few hours," said Abdelbaset Ahmed Abumzirig, deputy head of the national council for freedom and human rights. "Some have been passed on to the police and prosecutor general and we are following them up. We know that the authorities are weak." International campaign groups have identified armed militias as one of the biggest challenges to stability as Libya's new rulers try to build new institutions and prepare for the first election in a generation on July 7. In the last month, Tripoli's international airport was seized by an armed group for several hours. One person was killed and several injured when militiamen protesting outside the prime minister's office started shooting. Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abu Shagour told Reuters the government planned to increase security on the streets and set up more checkpoints to stop people bringing heavy weapons into cities. "This revolution came to eliminate the era of human rights violations, but unfortunately these incidents have happened, these are crimes," he said. On top of the rise in abductions, rights groups say they are also concerned about the fate of thousands of people captured by the authorities and militias during and immediately after the uprising. Human Rights Watch says at least 7,000 are still in detention, citing government officials and the United Nations. Roughly 4,000 of them are held by various militias in both formal and secret detention facilities. The rest are in facilities run by the government. The U.N. human rights agency and aid groups have accused brigades of torturing detainees, many of them sub-Saharan Africans suspected of fighting for Gaddafi's forces last year. Accusations of the mistreatment and disappearances of suspected Gaddafi loyalists are embarrassing for Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, which had vowed to make a fresh start after Gaddafi. It is also awkward for the Western powers that backed the rebellion and helped install Libya's new leaders. "The government, essentially the police through ministry of interior has to develop its capacity to check that. It's not acceptable of course," the U.N envoy to Libya, Ian Martin, told Reuters when asked about the abductions. "I don't think there's a problem of will to deal with that, I believe the intentions of those in authority in Libya is one that wants to protect human rights but more needs to be done." "THE HONDA CIVIC" The good intentions may be there. But the abductions have continued. Al-Amin Al-Sahli was at home when four men from a brigade arrived in a pick-up truck and asked him to go to their headquarters. They did not say why. The 38-year-old, a state employee living in Libya's third largest city Misrata and the brother of a Reuters cameraman, decided to comply and arrived at the base half an hour later. "They took my phone, my things and then led me through the back door to another office. Then they covered my eyes and tied my hands," he said as he lay in hospital after his ordeal. "They started beating me, torturing me. They put me on a device - they called it a Honda Civic," he said, describing it as a metallic frame to which his arms and legs were tied. "They beat me with cables and sticks and everything they had on my back, my legs and all sensitive areas of my body." The 38-year-old, covered in bruises and whip marks, said his detention stemmed from an old argument over a piece of land. He was only freed after other militia groups arrived demanding his release. During his detention, he said he was put in a cell with other prisoners, some of them with broken legs. "I've never seen anything as criminal as this before." (Additional reporting by Reuters Television; Editing by Andrew Heavens) Edited June 21, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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