Robert Mady Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Thomas, that is exactly what I am saying that the film footage of 'LOVELADY' "afterwards" was of course staged. How could they keep it quiet, how about imposing a threat of National Security? Do you not find it curious that these films were not discovered by the FBI or the WC and entered into evidence, but happened to just show up unobtrusively hidden within a documentary? We will follow any evidence planted in our paths, they can lead us like sheep and do. Thomas, all of the evidence points to LOVELADY being man shielding eyes, why are you so resistant to this? Edited March 17, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Thomas, that is exactly what I am saying that the film footage of 'LOVELADY' "afterwards" was of course staged. How could they keep it quiet, how about imposing a threat of National Security? Do you not find it curious that these films were not discovered by the FBI or the WC and entered into evidence, but happened to just show up unobtrusively hidden within a documentary? We will follow any evidence planted in our paths, they can lead us like sheep and do. Thomas, all of the evidence points to LOVELADY being man shielding eyes, why are you so resistant to this? [emphasis added by T. Graves] Why am I so resistant to your idea that the Lovelady scenes were altered in Altgens 6 or, even better, "staged" in three different films? Because I'm, of course, rational? --Tommy PS It's interesting that you are willing to jeopardize all of the fine progress you've made with your "shot/s from the pergola" theory by clinging to your assertion that the Martin and Hughes clips, as well as the clip showing Oswald being taken past Lovelady in the police department, were "staged" and filmed at a later time, with such "extras" as dead-ringer look-alikes for Lovelady, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, and.... Maybe you've bitten off more than you can chew. Maybe you shouldn't strive to make such a Grand, All-Inclusive, Dealey Plaza 11/22/63, Theory. The pieces you've chosen to work with just don't fit unless you say that a photograph and three films were altered and (incredibly) "staged." Why are you willing to make such a laughing-stock out of yourself like that? Edited March 18, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If that is Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm St. extension, and that is indeed Marion Baker running past them into the TSBD, Shelley and Lovelady have told outrageous lies in their WC testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) If that is Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm St. extension, and that is indeed Marion Baker running past them into the TSBD, Shelley and Lovelady have told outrageous lies in their WC testimony. Robert, Well, yes. They would be implicated in the assassination, wouldn't they. All three of them. You're a hunter. You've fired a lot of guns. Do you think the pigeons on top of the TSBD would have flown off quickly anyway, regardless of where the shots were fired from? Say another building or the pergoda, for example? --Tommy Edited March 18, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Thomas, Do you know for an absolute fact that these scenes could not have been staged and how do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Robert can you expand on post #1577, I have no idea what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas, Do you know for an absolute fact that these scenes could not have been staged and how do you know this? Ever heard of common sense, Robert? None of the "extras" (including Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce) spilled the beans because of "National Security"? LOL How about Occam's Razor? Gumption? Horse sense? Etc... Don't get all defensive on me, now. --Tommy Edited March 18, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) In their WC testimonies, both Shelley and Lovelady state they remained on the steps of the TSBD for 3-4 minutes following the shots, and, in fact, did not leave the steps of the TSBD until a lady named Gloria Calvary returned to the steps and informed them the President had been shot. Gloria Calvary had been just a few feet up from the Stemmons Freeway sign at the time of the assassination, and remained in this area, almost in a state of shock by the photographs of her there, for some time before she returned to the entrance of the TSBD. By their own testimony, that cannot be those two men walking down the street, as they would have still been on the steps when Baker reached the TSBD. P.S. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 In their WC testimonies, both Shelley and Lovelady state they remained on the steps of the TSBD for 3-4 minutes following the shots, and, in fact, did not leave the steps of the TSBD until a lady named Gloria Calvary returned to the steps and informed them the President had been shot. Gloria Calvary had been just a few feet up from the Stemmons Freeway sign at the time of the assassination, and remained in this area, almost in a state of shock by the photographs of her there, for some time before she returned to the entrance of the TSBD. By their own testimony, that cannot be those two men walking down the street, as they would have still been on the steps when Baker reached the TSBD. Correcto Mundo, Robert. So they lied didn't they. What's so surprising about that? --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas Not a lot, really. Bob Here is a link to a page containing all the witness affidavits, statements and WC testimonies. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wit.htm Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) In their WC testimonies, both Shelley and Lovelady state they remained on the steps of the TSBD for 3-4 minutes following the shots, and, in fact, did not leave the steps of the TSBD until a lady named Gloria Calvary returned to the steps and informed them the President had been shot. Gloria Calvary had been just a few feet up from the Stemmons Freeway sign at the time of the assassination, and remained in this area, almost in a state of shock by the photographs of her there, for some time before she returned to the entrance of the TSBD. By their own testimony, that cannot be those two men walking down the street, as they would have still been on the steps when Baker reached the TSBD. P.S. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building? Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building. Mr. BALL - How many steps? Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25. Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Robert this experience is only possible if LOVELADY left the steps just after the gunshots and as he was walking down the extension turned back to see TRULY and BAKER enter the TSBD. The evidence is confusing when it is all weighed equally. 25 steps away from the entrance puts them at a location we see in the Couch film. Which version is true, I will go with what is supported by the most evidence, in this case film evidence trumps uncorroborated testimony. Mr. LOVELADY We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building. Does this sound like they went to the rail yards 4 minutes after the shooting? Policemen started running sounds to me like the DP man that is running up the Elm extension just ahead of them, not some police that found the rail yard 4 or 5 minutes after the shooting. Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Robert : Really? Maybe it could be intentional that the testimony is so confusing? Maybe the intention of the WC was to confound not clarify so anyone wanting to investigate would not be provided with clear unambiguous experiences to analyze. IMO the WC preferentially retained conflicts and created as many more as they could. Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas, Do you know for an absolute fact that these scenes could not have been staged and how do you know this? Ever heard of common sense, Robert? None of the "extras" (including Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce) spilled the beans because of "National Security"? --Tommy So in other words you have no evidence to show that the scenes could not have been staged. Is it that you feel very strongly that it could not be conceivably possible? I don't want to put words in your mouth but you have not provided any reasoning for your opinion other than it is unimaginable to you. The difference Thomas I have no doubt they could have done it, there is no technical reason or insurmountable obstacle to have prevented them from doing so. The fact that WILLIAMS and ARCE and extras never spilled the beans could be a proof of "national Security" threat wouldn't it? And again i will point to the FBI accepting as truth, a statement from LOVELADY along with photographs of his shirt, unquestioned by the WC and then publicized by the news media as factual to the American Public (maybe you missed the news articles informing us LOVELADY wore the short sleeved shirt), but then what does all that really matter, LOVELADY identified himself in Altgens #6 right? Well FRAZIER did, well not really. The WC had the oppertunity to close the door on controversy and they utterly failed. One thing the American public had been looking for was absolute proof LOVELADY was doorman and the WC utterly failed, can you possible imagine how and why this could have happened? (FYI: if you reply incompetence of BALL and or the WC, that will end our conversation) Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building? Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit. Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Robert : Really? Maybe it could be intentional that the testimony is so confusing? Maybe the intention of the WC was to confound not clarify so anyone wanting to investigate would not be provided with clear unambiguous experiences to analyze. IMO the WC preferentially retained conflicts and created as many more as they could. I do not see anything confusing about the testimony at all. Both Shelley and Lovelady testified to remaining on the steps for 3-4 minutes, and not leaving those steps until Gloria Calvary returned from the pergola area. As there is photographic evidence of Ms. Calvary lingering on the grassy area in front of the pergola, following the shooting, do you think it possible she beat Baker to the steps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 "Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could.Mr. BALL - Had people started to run?Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.Mr. BALL - Did you run or walk?Mr. LOVELADY - Medium trotting or fast walk.Mr. BALL - A fast walk?Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.Mr. BALL - How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?Mr. LOVELADY - Somebody hollered and I looked.Mr. BALL - You turned around and looked?Mr. LOVELADY - Yes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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