Photos of elevators?

[Richard Hocking]

I am looking for photos of the East and West Freight Elevators of the Texas School Book Depository, taken near the time of the assassination.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I am looking for photos of the East and West Freight Elevators of the Texas School Book Depository, taken near the time of the assassination.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello Richard

I am glad you are asking for photos of these elevators as I am a little puzzled at how they are depicted on the floor plans, as seen in the floor plan of the 2nd floor I have linked to below:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10896&relPageId=26

Where were the entrances to the elevators? Did the entrances face east and west?

[Bjørn Gjerde]

Richard,

There seems to be a picture of the west elevator gate on the 6th floor here:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=117

The annotation on the back of the print is on the following page

[Picture taken] From stairway to 5th floor looking towards service elevator (i.e. gate of west elevator)

The gate of the west elevator on the 2nd floor is partly seen in the left hand side of this picture:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=145

Picture in the opposite direction from outside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=147

From inside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=151

Second floor landing

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=143

The stairway down from 6th floor to 5th floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=125

These elevators were back-to-back.

BGjerde

[Richard Hocking]

I am looking for photos of the East and West Freight Elevators of the Texas School Book Depository, taken near the time of the assassination.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello Richard

I am glad you are asking for photos of these elevators as I am a little puzzled at how they are depicted on the floor plans, as seen in the floor plan of the 2nd floor I have linked to below:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10896&relPageId=26

Where were the entrances to the elevators? Did the entrances face east and west?

They did face East and West, Robert.

The West Elevator would always be facing the NW Stairs.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Richard,

There seems to be a picture of the west elevator gate on the 6th floor here:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=117

The annotation on the back of the print is on the following page

[Picture taken] From stairway to 5th floor looking towards service elevator (i.e. gate of west elevator)

The gate of the west elevator on the 2nd floor is partly seen in the left hand side of this picture:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=145

Picture in the opposite direction from outside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=147

From inside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=151

Second floor landing

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=143

The stairway down from 6th floor to 5th floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=125

These elevators were back-to-back.

BGjerde

Thank you, Bjorne and Richard. I have a better understanding of the elevators now. Clearly, anyone boarding the east elevator could do so without the knowledge of a person using the stairway and only observing the elevators from the small space between up and down stairway entrances.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Robert Prudhomme

[Richard Hocking]

Richard,

There seems to be a picture of the west elevator gate on the 6th floor here:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=117

The annotation on the back of the print is on the following page

[Picture taken] From stairway to 5th floor looking towards service elevator (i.e. gate of west elevator)

The gate of the west elevator on the 2nd floor is partly seen in the left hand side of this picture:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=145

Picture in the opposite direction from outside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor:

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=147

From inside elevator to stairway leading to 3rd floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=151

Second floor landing

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=143

The stairway down from 6th floor to 5th floor

http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=125

These elevators were back-to-back.

BGjerde

Thanks once again for your help, Bjørn.

My motive is to get an idea of how much visibility one would have from the inside as the elevators are moving past the floors. The outer door on the W elevator appears to be slats with spacing of an inch or more in between.

We know from the description of the "race" roughly how fast these elevators moved.

Now if we can just locate a photo of the East elevator ...

If it is a slat system like the W elevator, I think it is safe to say one would have several seconds to scan through the slats while passing each floor, without having to stop the elevator and open the door.

[Richard Hocking]

Observations about the Elevators from Pictures and Testimony:

1. West Elevator was “automatic”. If both gates were shut, it could be called from any floor by pushing the button on that floor.

2. East Elevator was not automatic. It had a single gate and was operated with a “hand pedal”. Someone had to be in the elevator to operate it from floor to floor.

3. Both elevators made enough noise that you could hear them when they were moving, if you were paying attention. The East Elevator hand pedal made a “bang” noise when released ¹

4. You could hear and see out of the elevators from inside as they moved from floor to floor. ²

5. Views from the West Elevator would have included the “landing” area between both stairways, with a relatively restricted view beyond the NW corner of the floor. West Elevator had wooden slats in back wall. ³

6. The East Elevator had a Metal Back side with no view of the NW stairs area, but offered a more open view to the South and East on each floor. ⁴

7. It was possible to look through the gates into the elevator shaft and see the elevator(s) on floors above, across or below you. ⁵

8. On the 2^nd floor, the East Elevator opens into a room that is adjacent to the Lunch room and the conference room. If door to Conference room was shut, the East Elevator would only be visible from that one room adjacent to it.

9. On the 5^th floor, there was a pile of cartons that partially obscured the Elevators and the stairs when viewed from BRW’s position at the 5^th floor window from which he is alleged to have watched the motorcade.⁶

10. Elevators could go from the 7^th floor to the 1^st floor in 30 seconds, or roughly 5 seconds per floor. ⁷

Citations:

1. Williams WC, http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/williams.htm

2. Truly WC, http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol3/page223.php

3. Lovelady WC, http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol6/page338.php

photo: http://mffprodos5.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10484&relPageId=117

4. Truly WC, http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol3/page228.php

photo: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10896&relPageId=11

5. Truly WC Volume 3 p229; Baker WC Volume 3 p255

6. Williams WC, http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/williams.htm

7. Lovelady WCD 5, p333, http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=338

*Note: I am dual-posting a copy of this post into the "Photos of Elevators" thread

Edit: Update to the Data and citations. Thanks, Richard Gilbride.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Richard Hocking