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The timeline on the bag

Pat Speer

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While talking to Buell Frazier at the Bethesda conference, he told me something that struck me as odd. He said he was arrested on 11-22-63 just a short time after he left work. He said it was, to his recollection, no later than 3 in the afternoon. Well, this set off alarm bells. The "bag" removed from the TSBD on 11-22-63 was removed around 3:00. Frazier's statement, then, supported that the police knew Oswald had carried a long bag into the TSBD on the morning of 11-22-63, before they'd "discovered" such a bag.

I subsequently read the report of Dallas Det. Gus Rose, however. Rose maintained that Det. Adamcik and himself did not head over to the Paine residence until after 2:30, and that they were then forced to wait about 40 minutes for the arrival of Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walters, whereby they did not even go to the door until about 3:30. It was only then, according to Rose, that they discovered Oswald's rifle was missing from the garage. He wrote that they then packed up some of Oswald's possessions and took his wife and kids down to the police station, but that before they left they were approached by Mrs. Bill Randle and told that Oswald had been carrying a bag that morning. He wrote that Marina and the kids were moved at the station around 6:00. Well, this suggests that Randle told them of the bag between 5 and 5:30. Rose then relates that after getting the Oswalds settled at the police station he made some calls, and that Irving Police located and arrested Buell Frazier a few minutes before 6:45.

Well, I took a look at a sunrise/sunset calendar and it says the sun set at 5:23 on 11-22-63. Assuming this is accurate, it means Frazier was arrested 1 1/2 hours after sunset--when it was dark--and not 2 1/2 before sunset--when it was still quite light out, as he now remembers. Something's odd. Either Frazier is quite mistaken, or Rose was lying. I assumed Frazier was mistaken.

But now I'm not so sure. Today, I was rereading Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walters account of his activities on 11-22-63. Well, he wrote something quite intriguing, IMO. He wrote that he witnessed Oswald's arrest at the Texas Theater, and that he called in after that and was told to come down to the station and that he was then told to go directly to Irving. He wrote that he met Det. Rose upon his arrival. Well, Oswald was arrested around 1:50. Irving is roughly a 20 minute ride from Decker's office. It seems likely, then, that he arrived at Decker's office around 2:10 and arrived in Irving around 2:30. It seems reasonable, then, to believe Walters got to Irving around 2:30, not 3:30, as claimed by Rose. But there's a problem with this as well.

Rose wrote that Oswald was brought into the station about 2:15 and that he'd spoken to him briefly before being ordered out to Irving by Capt. Fritz around 2:30. Well, I've seen other timelines that place Oswald's arrival around 2:00. Even Bugliosi has it at 2:02. If Rose spoke to him from 2:00 to 2:10 or so, well, then, this means he could have made it out to Irving just ahead of Walters.

In short, I now suspect Rose's timeline is bogus, and am welcoming input from others so that perhaps we can resolve this issue, one way or the other.

Are there, for example, any news reports of Frazier's arrest? And, if so, at what time were they broadcast?

P.S. I just found an additional reason to doubt Rose's report. He wrote that at 2:30--the same time he was dispatched to go to Irving--other officers were told to go out to Oswald's rooming house. Well, Walthers, in his report, says that Mrs. Paine gave them the phone number of Oswald's rooming house, and that he had Sheriff Decker criss-cross it in a reverse phone directory to find out the address, and dispatch officers over to the rooming house. Now, this makes more sense than Fritz's knowing about the rooming house within minutes of Oswald's arrest. I mean, I don't think Oswald was exactly in the sharing mood at that point.

If these officers were dispatched at 2:30, then, it supports that Walthers and Rose had spoken to Ruth Paine by 2:30, and not 3:30, as subsequently claimed by Rose.

Here's some confirmation from Fritz:

Mr. BALL. Who did you send to Irving?
Mr. FRITZ. To Irving, Officer Stovall, Rose, and Adamcik.
Mr. BALL. After you had done that what did you do?
Mr. FRITZ. I sent some officers---you mean right at that time? I also sent officers over to the Beckley address, you know, as soon as we got there, I don't believe we had the Beckley address at this part of this question.
Mr. BALL. You didn't have it at that time, did you?
Mr. FRITZ. Not right at this time, but as soon as I got to that address.

Mr. BALL. Let's come to that a little later and we find out when you got there.
Mr. FRITZ. When I got there?
Mr. BALL. Yes. What did you do after you had sent the officers to Irving?
Mr. FRITZ. When I started to talk to this prisoner or maybe just before I started to talk to him, some officer told me outside of my office that he had a room on Beckley, I don't know who that officer was, I think we can find out, I have since I have talked to you this morning I have talked to Lieutenant Baker and he says I know maybe who that officer was, but I am not sure yet.
Mr. BALL. Some officer told you that he thought this man had a room on Beckley?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.

Well, how did this officer "know" this. It seems likely he'd been told this by Rose and/or the Sheriff's Dept., and that they knew this because they'd criss-crossed Oswald's phone number...AFTER Walthers had spoken to Ruth Paine.

P.P.S. I just re-read Rose's statements to Larry Sneed in No More Silence. He told Sneed that when he went out to Irving to talk to Marina and search the Paine's resident, "We also took two deputy sheriffs with us". He had thereby omitted the part of his story I have come to disbelieve--that he'd had to wait forty minutes outside the Paine's residence for Walthers' arrival. He also wrote "While we were at the house in Irving, Wesley Frazier's sister, Linnie Randle, came in and talked to us." Well, this suggests that Randle arrived at the house before they were ready to leave, which moves up the timeline a bit on when Rose first learned about the bag.

P.P.P.S. I just re-read the pertinent passage in Marina and Lee, built around 1964-era interviews of Marina. It reports "An hour, or a little less, after the President's death was announced, the doorbell rang. Ruth went to answer. She was greatly surprised to find six men standing on her doorstep. They were from the sheriff's office and the Dallas police..." Well, Kennedy's death was announced around 1:30. This supports my earlier conjecture they arrived around 2:30, and not 3:30 as claimed by Rose, Adamcik, and Stovall, in their report.

Edited by Pat Speer
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In his two-hour 2002 interview with Gary Mack, Buell Frazier goes into quite a bit of detail regarding the times that he did certain things on 11/22/63....



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