Oswald's Light-Colored Jacket

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

At the end of the preceding Von Pein clip...It sounds to me like Ms Roberts said Oswald "went to his room-put on his dark coat-and went out to the bus stop".....

 There was no mention of a white jacket and then again the narrative that Oswald bolted out and immediately headed in the direction of the Tippit site is based on nothing but speculation.

No.

 

She did not say dark coat.  She said "short coat".

 

[edit, pointed out by David Von Pein seconds before my post]

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bill Brown

[David Von Pein]

19 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Roberts, in that video clip, clearly says "short coat", not "dark coat".

This reminds me of another similar controversy that I was involved in over at Facebook in September of 2015, in which several FB members were trying to convince me that William Whaley (in a 1964 video) was actually saying that Oswald "WAS" looking at his roominghouse when Whaley's cab passed by that address on 11/22/63, versus Whaley saying what I think the video clearly has him saying, which is the word "WASN'T". (See link below.)

It just goes to show that even though people are hearing the exact same audio or video recording, the number of opinions concerning what that recording is revealing are very often varied and contradictory (and debate worthy):

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / Did Whaley Say "WAS" Or "WASN'T"?

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

At the end of the preceding Von Pein clip...It sounds to me like Ms Roberts said Oswald "went to his room-put on his dark coat-and went out to the bus stop".....

 There was no mention of a white jacket and then again the narrative that Oswald bolted out and immediately headed in the direction of the Tippit site is based on nothing but speculation.

At the time Oswald is alleged to have put on the tan/grey jacket, the temperature was in the upper 60s. Roberts of course testified that Oswald was zipping up a coat as he ran out, but her FBI report and teletype referencing her statements from the day of the assassination say nothing about zipping, or the jacket’s color. Could the dark jacket be the brown arrest shirt?

On the other hand, I did find a news article from what looks like early Dec ‘63 that quotes Roberts as saying the jacket was tan, but again she says nothing about zipping.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60418#relPageId=62

I’d be interested to know when was the first mention of the jacket’s color, and zipper, in the press. Does anyone know this? DVP? 

The Tag-O-Electric laundry tag business is pretty bizarre, and seems like legitimate reason to doubt that the coat was Oswald’s. Also as far as I know, all of Oswald’s clothing was size small, but the jacket was size medium. 

Lastly, is it not a little weird that in the initial police reports concerning contact with Roberts at the rooming house, there is no indication that she mentioned to officers that Oswald had stopped by that afternoon at all, let alone put on a jacket? 

[Bill Brown]

10 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

At the time Oswald is alleged to have put on the tan/grey jacket, the temperature was in the upper 60s. Roberts of course testified that Oswald was zipping up a coat as he ran out, but her FBI report and teletype referencing her statements from the day of the assassination say nothing about zipping, or the jacket’s color. Could the dark jacket be the brown arrest shirt?

On the other hand, I did find a news article from what looks like early Dec ‘63 that quotes Roberts as saying the jacket was tan, but again she says nothing about zipping.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60418#relPageId=62

I’d be interested to know when was the first mention of the jacket’s color, and zipper, in the press. Does anyone know this? DVP? 

The Tag-O-Electric laundry tag business is pretty bizarre, and seems like legitimate reason to doubt that the coat was Oswald’s. Also as far as I know, all of Oswald’s clothing was size small, but the jacket was size medium. 

Lastly, is it not a little weird that in the initial police reports concerning contact with Roberts at the rooming house, there is no indication that she mentioned to officers that Oswald had stopped by that afternoon at all, let alone put on a jacket? 

On the afternoon of the assassination, Roberts told a radio reporter that Oswald left in a "short grey coat".

[Tom Gram]

9 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

On the afternoon of the assassination, Roberts told a radio reporter that Oswald left in a "short grey coat".

Did you post a source? I saw that Gil asked the same thing a while ago but I didn’t see one in the thread. 

[David Von Pein]

9 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Did you post a source?

The source is, I think, a Dale Myers blog article, in which he sources the "short gray coat" info with "KLIF interview, Nov. 22".

BTW, just the other day I listened to all of my extensive KLIF Radio coverage from 11/22/63, but I could not find any interview with Earlene Roberts. But I have no doubt that if Dale Myers sourced it as a "KLIF interview", it did definitely happen. I just don't have it in my collection.

Edited July 24, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Bill Brown]

23 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Did you post a source? I saw that Gil asked the same thing a while ago but I didn’t see one in the thread. 

I heard it years ago.  Someone posted the interview over at the JFK Assassination Forum.  I'll see if I can find it.  But, make no mistake, it was on the radio on the afternoon of the assassination and she said it was a short grey coat.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bill Brown

[Tom Gram]

36 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The source is, I think, a Dale Myers blog article, in which he sources the "short gray coat" info with "KLIF interview, Nov. 22".

BTW, I just the other day listened to all of my extensive KLIF Radio coverage from 11/22/63, but I could not find any interview with Earlene Roberts. But I have no doubt that if Dale Myers sourced it as a "KLIF interview", it did definitely happen. I just don't have it in my collection.

I think I found it. There’s a document I found that references a KLIF tape called The Fateful Hours where Roberts is quoted as saying:

Side II, at 115'+ Mrs. Roberts: "He come in, got a short white coat and went on back out in a hurry  

There’s another quote, I think from the same tape, but the White document has it dated to 11/23, where Roberts says: 

“He ran to his room, came running back with a gray zipper jacket and out the door."

The next one I think is the source for the article I posted, where Roberts states on 11/29: 

“He got a tan coat and ran out”

So if the quotes here are correct, Roberts gave three different descriptions in the span of a week. Considering that a “white coat” became a dark coat by her WC testimony, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in Roberts’ memory. 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White Materials/Warren Commission-Subject/Description.doc

Does anyone have a copy of The Fateful Hours? I think it’s worth it to verify what Roberts said and when. It seems like Myers might have combined two different statements. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Tom Gram

[David Von Pein]

Tom,

Here's the 2017 Dale Myers article in which he uses the KLIF interview as a source. It's footnote #48....

Quoting Myers...
"On the day of the assassination, Earlene Roberts said that Oswald “rushed in ... and got a short gray coat and went on back out in a hurry.” [48]  ”

[48] KLIF Interview

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2017/11/when-jd-tippit-was-gunned-down.html

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Jacket Addendum....

Regardless of the exact color or shade of the jacket that Oswald was zipping up as he departed 1026 Beckley on Nov. 22, I think Earlene Roberts' comments (regardless of which version you want to choose) provide pretty solid proof that Lee Oswald was zipping up a "short coat" (jacket) as he left the house that day.

We can argue about the exact color of Oswald's jacket all year long....but is there a person at this forum who REALLY thinks that Earlene Roberts was telling a big fat lie when she said she saw Oswald hurriedly enter his room on 11/22 and then rush out again while zipping up a jacket (or "short coat")?

Why would anyone disbelieve at least THAT part of Roberts' story? She has ALWAYS maintained that Oswald rushed in and out again, and she's always maintained he was zipping up a jacket as he left.

[Bill Brown]

39 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Jacket Addendum....

Regardless of the exact color or shade of the jacket that Oswald was zipping up as he departed 1026 Beckley on Nov. 22, I think Earlene Roberts' comments (regardless of which version you want to choose) provide pretty solid proof that Lee Oswald was zipping up a "short coat" (jacket) as he left the house that day.

We can argue about the exact color of Oswald's jacket all year long....but is there a person at this forum who REALLY thinks that Earlene Roberts was telling a big fat lie when she said she saw Oswald hurriedly enter his room on 11/22 and then rush out again while zipping up a jacket (or "short coat")?

Why would anyone disbelieve at least THAT part of Roberts' story? She has ALWAYS maintained that Oswald rushed in and out again, and she's always maintained he was zipping up a jacket as he left.

It's not that some don't believe Roberts when she says Oswald left in a jacket/coat.  It's that many simply don't want to have to address the fact that Oswald left in a jacket and then is seen on Jefferson with no jacket.  To get around having to address this very real issue, they try to argue that we can't know for sure that Oswald left in a jacket at all.  Personally, I doubt Oswald owned any zip-up shirts and the shirt he was wearing when arrested was definitely not a zip-up.

 

[Tom Gram]

I’m not doubting Roberts, but I am curious about other media reports about the jacket on the day of the assassination, if any exist. It’s interesting that Roberts’ first description of a “white coat” (assuming that quote is accurate) matches the earliest DPD reports of the jacket. I’m also a bit concerned that Myers might have misquoted Roberts, but of course I’d want to hear the actual tape before being too critical here. 

EDIT: I found the tape (I think) if anyone wants to check it out. I won’t be able to listen until later tonight: 

https://m.soundcloud.com/beauweaver/the-fateful-hours-klif-dallas

Edited July 24, 2022 by Tom Gram

[David Von Pein]

45 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I found the tape (I think) if anyone wants to check it out. I won’t be able to listen until later tonight: 

https://m.soundcloud.com/beauweaver/the-fateful-hours-klif-dallas

Excellent job of digging that up, Tom! Thanks. I'm starting to listen to it now (7:40 PM EDT on July 24).

(I see it's been available at Sound Cloud since Nov. 2013. But I had never heard about this program before now. Thanks again, Tom Gram.)

Edited July 24, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

https://m.soundcloud.com/beauweaver/the-fateful-hours-klif-dallas

I've confirmed that there is an interview with Earlene Roberts on this "Fateful Hours" KLIF retrospective program, with Roberts saying (at about the 27:00 mark) that Oswald left his room wearing a "short gray coat", just as Dale Myers said in his 2017 blog article.

Edited July 25, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

I've confirmed that there is an interview with Earlene Roberts on this "Fateful Hours" KLIF retrospective program, with Roberts saying (at about the 27:00 mark) that Oswald left his room wearing a "short gray coat", just as Dale Myers said in his 2017 blog article.

Thanks David. I’m looking forward to checking it out. It seems like a pretty interesting compilation record. It’s probably worth downloading too in case that SoundCloud page ever goes down.