Lee Harvey Oswald's two jackets and why the Tippit killer's jacket was not one of them

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

I just checked out pages 47-50.  As I've pointed out earlier, Linnie Mae Randle clearly says that Oswald, that morning, was wearing a garment much more like 163 than 162.  Shown both, she chose 163.

She did not have to pick either.  She could easily have said that neither 162 nor 163 resemble what she saw Oswald wearing that morning.

You think Joseph Ball was performing Jedi mind tricks on witnesses.  Personally, I don't think he possessed that ability.

Ball was a veteran very experienced trial attorney, top of his game. 

The trick question Ball asked was "now if you had to choose between these two?"

And she had to answer the question. Because that is what witnesses are to do: answer the question asked.

And she answered, "I would choose the dark one [CE 163]. 

Her reason: because CE 162 was way too light. She protested Oswald's jacket could not have been CE 162 because, she said, Oswald's jacket was gray. 

Ball gave her a forced choice between two false alternatives. 

I think Pat Speer goes into the Belin and Ball lawyerly team doing numbers on witnesses, in one of the chapters on his website.  

Mr. BALL. Here is another jacket [CE 162] which is a gray jacket, does this look anything like the jacket he had on? 

Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; I remember its being gray. 

Mr. BALL. Well, this one [CE 162] is gray but of these two the jacket I last showed you [CE 162] is Commission Exhibit No. 162, and this blue gray [CE 163] is 163, now if you had to choose between these two? 
Mrs. RANDLE. I would choose the dark one [CE 163]. 
Mr. BALL. You would choose the dark one? 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Which is 163, as being more similar to the jacket he had? 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; that I remember. But I, you know, didn’t pay an awful lot of attention to his jacket. I remember his T-shirt and the shirt more so than I do the jacket. 
Mr. BALL. The witness just stated that 163 which is the gray-blue is similar to the jacket he had on. 162, the light gray jacket was not. 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.  

But here is the bottom line: Linnie Mae said the jacket she saw Oswald wearing was gray. She never said the jacket she saw was any color other than gray. Not "light gray". Not "blue-gray". Just gray.

“he had a gray jacket, I believe.”

“It was gray, I am not sure of the shade. 

“No, sir [it was not CE 162]; I remember its being gray.”

And Buell Wesley Frazier, describing the same Oswald jacket, the same one Linnie Mae saw (and in a much better position to know it more familiarly than Linnie Mae):

Frazier to the FBI:

“At about 4:45 PM, on November 21, 1963, Frazier and Oswald departed the TSBD Building, walked to Frazier’s car and drove to Irving … As Frazier recalls, Oswald was wearing a reddish shirt and a grey jacket, waist length.” (FBI interview, 12/1/63)

Frazier to the Secret Service:

“All I recall about Oswald’s clothing on the morning of the assassination was a gray wool jacket.” (Buell Wesley Frazier affidavit for the Secret Service, 12/5/63, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=232975#relPageId=45)

FBI again:

“The only thing Frazier can recall about Oswald’s clothing on November 22, 1963, was that Oswald was wearing a gray jacket.” (FBI report, 12/7/63, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=232975#relPageId=49)

From Buell Wesley Frazier’s Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. BALL. I have here Commission’s 163, a gray blue jacket. Do you recognize this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don’t. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Lee Oswald wear this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don’t believe I have. 
Mr. BALL. Commission Exhibit No. 162, which can be described for the record as a gray jacket with zipper, have you seen Lee Oswald wear this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I haven’t.

(…)

Mr. BALL. On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?  
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.  
Mr. BALL. What color was the jacket?  
Mr. FRAZIER. It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.  
Mr. BALL. Did it have a zipper on it?  
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.  
Mr. BALL. It isn’t one of these two zipper jackets we have shown? Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. 

(...)

Mr. BALL. (…) That gray jacket you mentioned, did it have any design in it? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Was it light or dark gray? 
Mr. FRAZIER. It was light gray. 
Mr. BALL. You mentioned it was woolen. 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Long sleeves? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Buttoned sleeves at the wrist, or do you remember? 
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you, I didn’t notice that much about the jacket, but I had seen him wear that gray woolen jacket before. 

(…) 

Mr. BALL. On Thursday afternoon when you went home, drove on home, did he carry any package with him? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn’t.
Mr. BALL. Did he have a jacket or coat on him? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket or coat did he have? 
Mr. FRAZIER. That, you know, like I say gray jacket. 
Mr. BALL. That same gray jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. Now, I can be frank with you, I had seen him wear that jacket several times, because it is cool type like when you keep a jacket on all day, if you are working on outside or something like that, you wouldn’t go outside with just a plain shirt on. 
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.  

Buell Wesley Frazier is a credible witness, about as credible as it gets, drove Lee back and forth, sitting right next to him in the car, saw Lee's gray jacket. 

[Bill Brown]

11 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Ball was a veteran very experienced trial attorney, top of his game. 

The trick question Ball asked was "now if you had to choose between these two?"

And she had to answer the question. Because that is what witnesses are to do: answer the question asked.

And she answered, "I would choose the dark one [CE 163]. 

Her reason: because CE 162 was way too light. She protested Oswald's jacket could not have been CE 162 because, she said, Oswald's jacket was gray. 

Ball gave her a forced choice between two false alternatives. 

I think Pat Speer goes into the Belin and Ball lawyerly team doing numbers on witnesses, in one of the chapters on his website.  

 

Mr. BALL. Here is another jacket [CE 162] which is a gray jacket, does this look anything like the jacket he had on? 

Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; I remember its being gray. 

Mr. BALL. Well, this one [CE 162] is gray but of these two the jacket I last showed you [CE 162] is Commission Exhibit No. 162, and this blue gray [CE 163] is 163, now if you had to choose between these two? 
Mrs. RANDLE. I would choose the dark one [CE 163]. 
Mr. BALL. You would choose the dark one? 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Which is 163, as being more similar to the jacket he had? 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; that I remember. But I, you know, didn’t pay an awful lot of attention to his jacket. I remember his T-shirt and the shirt more so than I do the jacket. 
Mr. BALL. The witness just stated that 163 which is the gray-blue is similar to the jacket he had on. 162, the light gray jacket was not. 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.  

But here is the bottom line: Linnie Mae said the jacket she saw Oswald wearing was gray. She never said the jacket she saw was any color other than gray. Not "light gray". Not "blue-gray". Just gray.

“he had a gray jacket, I believe.”

“It was gray, I am not sure of the shade. 

“No, sir [it was not CE 162]; I remember its being gray.”

And Buell Wesley Frazier, describing the same Oswald jacket, the same one Linnie Mae saw (and in a much better position to know it more familiarly than Linnie Mae):

 

Frazier to the FBI:

“At about 4:45 PM, on November 21, 1963, Frazier and Oswald departed the TSBD Building, walked to Frazier’s car and drove to Irving … As Frazier recalls, Oswald was wearing a reddish shirt and a grey jacket, waist length.” (FBI interview, 12/1/63)

Frazier to the Secret Service:

“All I recall about Oswald’s clothing on the morning of the assassination was a gray wool jacket.” (Buell Wesley Frazier affidavit for the Secret Service, 12/5/63, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=232975#relPageId=45)

FBI again:

“The only thing Frazier can recall about Oswald’s clothing on November 22, 1963, was that Oswald was wearing a gray jacket.” (FBI report, 12/7/63, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=232975#relPageId=49)

From Buell Wesley Frazier’s Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. BALL. I have here Commission’s 163, a gray blue jacket. Do you recognize this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don’t. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Lee Oswald wear this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don’t believe I have. 
Mr. BALL. Commission Exhibit No. 162, which can be described for the record as a gray jacket with zipper, have you seen Lee Oswald wear this jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I haven’t.

(…)

Mr. BALL. On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?  
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.  
Mr. BALL. What color was the jacket?  
Mr. FRAZIER. It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.  
Mr. BALL. Did it have a zipper on it?  
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.  
Mr. BALL. It isn’t one of these two zipper jackets we have shown? Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. 

(...)

Mr. BALL. (…) That gray jacket you mentioned, did it have any design in it? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Was it light or dark gray? 
Mr. FRAZIER. It was light gray. 
Mr. BALL. You mentioned it was woolen. 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Long sleeves? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Buttoned sleeves at the wrist, or do you remember? 
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you, I didn’t notice that much about the jacket, but I had seen him wear that gray woolen jacket before. 

(…) 

Mr. BALL. On Thursday afternoon when you went home, drove on home, did he carry any package with him? 
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn’t.
Mr. BALL. Did he have a jacket or coat on him? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket or coat did he have? 
Mr. FRAZIER. That, you know, like I say gray jacket. 
Mr. BALL. That same gray jacket? 
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. Now, I can be frank with you, I had seen him wear that jacket several times, because it is cool type like when you keep a jacket on all day, if you are working on outside or something like that, you wouldn’t go outside with just a plain shirt on. 
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.  

Buell Wesley Frazier is a credible witness, about as credible as it gets, drove Lee back and forth, sitting right next to him in the car, saw Lee's gray jacket. 

 

"The trick question Ball asked was "now if you had to choose between these two?"

And she had to answer the question. Because that is what witnesses are to do: answer the question asked.

And she answered, "I would choose the dark one [CE 163]."

 

Before Ball ever asked her the "if you had to choose" question, Randle had already stated that the item worn by Oswald that  morning was similar to 163 and she also stated that Oswald was not wearing 162.  The "if you had to choose" question was redundant.

 

 

[Greg Doudna]

Buell Wesley Frazier was describing the same jacket as Linnie Mae, worn by Oswald on the morning of Fri Nov 22, a gray jacket which Buell described and said was neither the off-white light tan 162 nor the blue 163. And Buell was right. 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Pages 105-106 from the paper.

"Why did Earlene on KLIF-Radio call Oswald's jacket a 'coat'?

"There is a further detail which has gone largely unremarked. In the KLIF-Radio interview of Earlene Roberts of Nov 22, 1963 (https://soundcloud.com/beauweaver/the-fateful-hours-klif-dallas), Earlene does not speak of Oswald’s 'jacket' but rather of Oswald’s 'coat'. Why is that? This occurs twice in that interview. At 25:42, 'a short coat'. At 26:38, 'a short gray coat'. My transcriptions:

'he rushed in in shirt sleeves and got a short coat and went back out… he acted as if he was in a hurry… and I spoke to him and he just ignored me, but that’s not unusual, sometimes he’d speak to you and sometimes he didn’t…' (25:42f)

'and he come in and got a short gray coat and went right on back out in a hurry. And when I looked out the window he was standing at the bus stop…' (26:38f)

"Although there is overlap and interchangeability in uses of 'jacket' and 'coat' in English, the two words are not exactly synonymous. Generally a 'coat' tends to connote a somewhat heavier or warmer outerwear than a 'jacket. 

'Coat vs. Jacket: What is the Difference? ...

'[C]oats often provide more warmth and insulation than jackets ... A coat is a warm outer garment worn over top of other clothing meant to protect the wearer from extreme temperatures. Coats often have a hip-length or longer length, though they can also end at the waist ... coats almost always use heavier, more insulating fabric than jackets. This makes them much warmer... A jacket is a kind of outwear for the upper body that usually ends at the waist or the hips ... provide less warmth than a coat ...' (https://silverbobbin.com/coat-vs-jacket/)

"Oswald’s blue jacket or coat, CE 163, was warmer and heavier than his lighter-weight gray jacket (the gray jacket Oswald ditched for good just before entering the rooming house; the jacket of the Minsk photograph noted earlier).

"Compare the way William Whaley, the cab driver, in his Warren Commission testimony unconsciously associated—just from looking at the items—CE 162 as a 'jacket' whereas he called the blue CE 163 a 'coat':

Mr. WHALEY. That jacket [CE 162] now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here [CE 163] on over that other jacket [CE 162], I am sure, sir. 

"Therefore, although due to variability in actual usage this point would not be decisive in itself, when combined with other evidence Earlene’s word choice of 'coat' in her KLIF-Radio interview supports that Oswald left the rooming house with CE 163."

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Pages 103-104 from the paper.

"Earlene Roberts and the “gray” color of Oswald’s jacket

"The $64,000 question is: on the assumption that the 'gray' color of the jacket was an early, honest description of Earlene (as it surely was), is that evidence establishing—does it give weight to—a conclusion that the color of Oswald’s jacket as he went out the door of the rooming house was not blue, and the jacket not CE 163?

"And the answer, surprisingly, is 'no', not if Earlene Roberts had yellow-blue colorblindness. 

'People with yellow-blue colorblindness often see shades of blue as gray' (https://www.reddit.com/r/ColorBlind/comments/iztxq8/mistake_blue_for_grey/)

"Diabetes Type 2, adult onset diabetes, the most common type of diabetes, is linked to colorblindness: 

'The study [of Tan et al.] ... revealed that colour blindness affects 22.3 percent of people with type 2 diabetes. Those who have had the disease for six years or more have a higher incidence of colour blindness. The risk increases each year that patients suffer from the condition ... It was also found that people with poorer vision are more prone to this eye problem.' (https://www.healthhub.sg/a-z/diseases-and-conditions/726/How-Colour-Blindness-is-Linked-to-Type-2-Diabetes)

"The study was published in 2017 in BMC Endocrine Disorders (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28577364/). According to the abstract, of the 22% overall percentage of type 2 diabetics with color-blindness, 'impaired color vision was associated with older patients', and 'impaired blue-yellow color-vision (Tritanomaly) was the commonest impaired color vision'. 

"Earlene Roberts, age 58 at the time, was diabetic. 

'Mrs. Roberts explained she has diabetes and is afraid to leave Dallas and be away from her doctor. She said she has been in a diabetic coma on two occasions.' (FBI interview of Earlene Roberts, June 8, 1964, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=543)

"The study cited above says the already-significant incidence of color blindness for diabetes type 2 patients is escalated still further in diabetics with poor vision. From her Warren Commission testimony:

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, you know, I can’t see too good how to read. I’m completely blind in my right eye.

"These facts suggest that on medical grounds Earlene Roberts may have been physiologically incapable of seeing the blue of CE 163.

"What others would see as 'blue', Earlene, from color-blindness, may have been unable to see as other than 'gray', in agreement with the only color Earlene Roberts ever claimed for the jacket of Oswald, even though CE 163 in fact is blue (or as Mr. Ball of the Warren Commission called CE 163, 'blue-gray'). 

"Being color-blind may have caused Earlene to see blue as gray, but it would not affect Earlene being able to see whether something was 'light' or 'dark' in tone or shade even if color recognition itself was poor. Earlene while afflicted with color-blindness would still be able to see the difference between 'light' and 'dark', and Earlene said the jacket was 'dark'.

"That is, a color-blind person can tell 'dark' from 'light' in tone, even if the color is not seen as other than a shade of gray. And the early reports of Earlene speaking of a 'gray' color for the jacket of Oswald as he went out the door just after 1 pm on Friday are consistent with how Oswald’s blue jacket CE 163 would look to Earlene and how she would tell what she saw to others.

"Again, in her own words, when Earlene was shown CE 162, the Tippit killer’s nearly-white light tan jacket, Earlene Roberts told the Warren Commission she thought Oswald’s jacket was 'darker than that' (darker than the off-white CE 162). The early reportings of Earlene saying the jacket was 'gray' do not have Earlene saying 'light gray'.

"Earlene never said other than the color was 'gray' and 'dark', both consistent with Earlene seeing CE 163 and not consistent with Earlene seeing CE 162.

"For these reasons the early reportings of Earlene Roberts referring to the color of Oswald’s jacket as 'dark' and 'gray' are not only fully compatible with the jacket being CE 163, Oswald’s blue coat, but constitute strong positive witness testimony—positive evidence—that it was CE 163, and was not CE 162.

"Oswald left the rooming house with the only other jacket he now had after disposing of his gray jacket, his blue coat, CE 163."

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[David Von Pein]

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/08/earlene-roberts.html

Linked above: my collection of Earlene Roberts interviews and her one movie appearance (in David Wolper's "Four Days In November", the best JFKA film ever produced).*

* IMHO.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Greg Doudna]

From page 87 of the paper.

"[I]n an interview filmed after his Warren Commission testimony (because Whaley refers back to his Warren Commission testimony in that interview), Whaley recounting the same as above tells it with gray color again. Whaley is filmed driving his cab and telling of the day he drove Oswald. Whaley:

'Well, he just looked like an ordinary working man. He was small, had on gray work clothes, a brown shirt and a silver stripe and a work jacket.' 

"Since gray is the known true color of Oswald’s pants, and gray was Whaley’s original color for Oswald’s jacket and is again repeated here, and since the jacket was always said by Whaley to match the color of the pants, gray is therefore the true color of the jacket of Oswald that Whaley saw." 

[Greg Doudna]

Pages 27-28 from the paper (https://www.scrollery.com/?p=1553).

"Précis of the argument to follow: why Oswald’s gray jacket was not CE 162, the Tippit killer’s jacket

o   Because Oswald’s gray jacket was gray, but CE 162 is a different color, an off-white light tan (to be discussed below). 

o   Because with the exception of a manipulated and mistaken identification by Marina of CE 162 in her Warren Commission testimony in February 1964 (the only time Marina was shown that jacket and then in a contrived context), no one who saw Oswald wearing his gray jacket to Irving and to work, identified CE 162 as Oswald’s gray jacket. Buell Wesley Frazier categorically rejected that CE 162 was Oswald’s gray jacket with which Frazier was familiar.

o   Because Buell Wesley Frazier described Oswald’s gray jacket as flannel or woolen-like in material, which does not describe CE 162.

o   Because the FBI, in all of their interviews of Marina before her Warren Commission testimony, never showed her CE 162 to ask if she recognized it, an unusual omission, one explanation of which could be awareness of risk that her answer might not be what was wanted.

o   Because Oswald’s gray jacket appears identifiable in a photo of Oswald taken in Minsk, when Oswald was in the Soviet Union, and that jacket is not CE 162.

o   Because Oswald wore his gray jacket to Irving on Thursday Nov 21, and to work at the Book Depository on the morning of Friday Nov 22, according to testimony of Buell Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle and supported by testimony of Marina, which is inconsistent with Oswald newly putting on his gray jacket at his rooming house in Oak Cliff when he changed clothes there at 1:00 pm Friday according to the Warren Commission reconstruction in which Oswald’s gray jacket was CE 162.

o   Because Mary Bledsoe’s strange description of a “shirt” she saw Oswald wearing on a bus after Oswald left the Book Depository is to be understood as a description of Oswald’s gray jacket, with no buttons and a torn right elbow matching the jacket in the Oswald Minsk photo, which is not CE 162.

o   Because there is no photograph of Oswald wearing CE 162 among the photos of Oswald in the Soviet Union, contrary to what might be expected if CE 162 were Oswald’s gray jacket.

o   Because there is no photo of Oswald wearing CE 162 at all.

o   Because Ruth Paine did not confirm ever seeing CE 162 worn by Oswald. In all of the voluminous testimony of Ruth Paine, she was never shown CE 162 and asked if she recognized it. One possible reason Ruth Paine was not asked could be because Ruth Paine’s answer to that question might not be wanted on the record. 

o   For the above reasons, although CE 162 was the Tippit killer’s jacket, CE 162 was not Oswald’s gray jacket."

 

[Greg Doudna]

Pages 28-29 of the paper.

"The color of the Tippit killer’s CE 162 jacket was misrepresented by the Warren Commission: it was not gray

"A first point of fact concerns the color of the Tippit killer’s abandoned jacket, CE 162. The Warren Commission consistently referred to CE 162 as 'light gray' or 'gray' in color, as does Dale Myers’ encyclopedic study of the Tippit case, With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murder of Officer J.D. Tippit (2013; 1^st edn 1998), 340-42, 345-46, 478, and other articles and books routinely to the present day. 

"But 'gray' is simply not accurate: CE 162, the jacket found by police and the jacket of the Tippit killer, was not gray, never was gray. It was an off-white light tan. There were witnesses who inaccurately called it gray, and CE 162 could have looked gray under certain indoor lighting conditions, but that does not mean CE 162 was gray. Nor does this point need to be a matter of debate: the jacket exists today and color photos of the jacket from 1964 are published today, in addition to many contemporary witnesses’ descriptions of the jacket’s color from November 1963 and thereafter." 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Bill Brown]

15 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Pages 105-106 from the paper.

"Why did Earlene on KLIF-Radio call Oswald's jacket a 'coat'?

"There is a further detail which has gone largely unremarked. In the KLIF-Radio interview of Earlene Roberts of Nov 22, 1963 (https://soundcloud.com/beauweaver/the-fateful-hours-klif-dallas), Earlene does not speak of Oswald’s 'jacket' but rather of Oswald’s 'coat'. Why is that? This occurs twice in that interview. At 25:42, 'a short coat'. At 26:38, 'a short gray coat'. My transcriptions:

'he rushed in in shirt sleeves and got a short coat and went back out… he acted as if he was in a hurry… and I spoke to him and he just ignored me, but that’s not unusual, sometimes he’d speak to you and sometimes he didn’t…' (25:42f)

'and he come in and got a short gray coat and went right on back out in a hurry. And when I looked out the window he was standing at the bus stop…' (26:38f)

"Although there is overlap and interchangeability in uses of 'jacket' and 'coat' in English, the two words are not exactly synonymous. Generally a 'coat' tends to connote a somewhat heavier or warmer outerwear than a 'jacket. 

'Coat vs. Jacket: What is the Difference? ...

'[C]oats often provide more warmth and insulation than jackets ... A coat is a warm outer garment worn over top of other clothing meant to protect the wearer from extreme temperatures. Coats often have a hip-length or longer length, though they can also end at the waist ... coats almost always use heavier, more insulating fabric than jackets. This makes them much warmer... A jacket is a kind of outwear for the upper body that usually ends at the waist or the hips ... provide less warmth than a coat ...' (https://silverbobbin.com/coat-vs-jacket/)

"Oswald’s blue jacket or coat, CE 163, was warmer and heavier than his lighter-weight gray jacket (the gray jacket Oswald ditched for good just before entering the rooming house; the jacket of the Minsk photograph noted earlier).

"Compare the way William Whaley, the cab driver, in his Warren Commission testimony unconsciously associated—just from looking at the items—CE 162 as a 'jacket' whereas he called the blue CE 163 a 'coat':

Mr. WHALEY. That jacket [CE 162] now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here [CE 163] on over that other jacket [CE 162], I am sure, sir. 

"Therefore, although due to variability in actual usage this point would not be decisive in itself, when combined with other evidence Earlene’s word choice of 'coat' in her KLIF-Radio interview supports that Oswald left the rooming house with CE 163."

 

I have already shown you, through the testimonies of Barbara Davis (which you already knew about), Warren Reynolds and Bill Smith (both of which you were unaware of), it is indeed possible for one to call a lighter weight jacket like 162 a "coat".

 

If Davis, Reynolds and Smith can call 162 a "coat", why can't Earlene Roberts?

 

[Bill Brown]

4 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Pages 27-28 from the paper (https://www.scrollery.com/?p=1553).

 

 

"Précis of the argument to follow: why Oswald’s gray jacket was not CE 162, the Tippit killer’s jacket

o   Because Oswald’s gray jacket was gray, but CE 162 is a different color, an off-white light tan (to be discussed below). 

o   Because with the exception of a manipulated and mistaken identification by Marina of CE 162 in her Warren Commission testimony in February 1964 (the only time Marina was shown that jacket and then in a contrived context), no one who saw Oswald wearing his gray jacket to Irving and to work, identified CE 162 as Oswald’s gray jacket. Buell Wesley Frazier categorically rejected that CE 162 was Oswald’s gray jacket with which Frazier was familiar.

o   Because Buell Wesley Frazier described Oswald’s gray jacket as flannel or woolen-like in material, which does not describe CE 162.

o   Because the FBI, in all of their interviews of Marina before her Warren Commission testimony, never showed her CE 162 to ask if she recognized it, an unusual omission, one explanation of which could be awareness of risk that her answer might not be what was wanted.

o   Because Oswald’s gray jacket appears identifiable in a photo of Oswald taken in Minsk, when Oswald was in the Soviet Union, and that jacket is not CE 162.

o   Because Oswald wore his gray jacket to Irving on Thursday Nov 21, and to work at the Book Depository on the morning of Friday Nov 22, according to testimony of Buell Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle and supported by testimony of Marina, which is inconsistent with Oswald newly putting on his gray jacket at his rooming house in Oak Cliff when he changed clothes there at 1:00 pm Friday according to the Warren Commission reconstruction in which Oswald’s gray jacket was CE 162.

o   Because Mary Bledsoe’s strange description of a “shirt” she saw Oswald wearing on a bus after Oswald left the Book Depository is to be understood as a description of Oswald’s gray jacket, with no buttons and a torn right elbow matching the jacket in the Oswald Minsk photo, which is not CE 162.

o   Because there is no photograph of Oswald wearing CE 162 among the photos of Oswald in the Soviet Union, contrary to what might be expected if CE 162 were Oswald’s gray jacket.

o   Because there is no photo of Oswald wearing CE 162 at all.

o   Because Ruth Paine did not confirm ever seeing CE 162 worn by Oswald. In all of the voluminous testimony of Ruth Paine, she was never shown CE 162 and asked if she recognized it. One possible reason Ruth Paine was not asked could be because Ruth Paine’s answer to that question might not be wanted on the record. 

o   For the above reasons, although CE 162 was the Tippit killer’s jacket, CE 162 was not Oswald’s gray jacket."

 

 

"o   Because Mary Bledsoe’s strange description of a “shirt” she saw Oswald wearing on a bus after Oswald left the Book Depository is to be understood as a description of Oswald’s gray jacket, with no buttons and a torn right elbow matching the jacket in the Oswald Minsk photo, which is not CE 162."

 

Please post the photo of Oswald in Minsk wearing a jacket with a torn right elbow.

 

[Greg Doudna]

Here are three of the same photo of Oswald in Minsk wearing a jacket. I am unable to post because I get a message of overlimit. Is someone else able to post any of these? I see what looks like a small tear in the middle of the right forearm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24945209 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/604608318700446294/ 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5ut6mWL981I/VU3CCwuMz4I/AAAAAAAAAjg/fxmcxudhqE0/s1600/123%2Brussia%2Blee%2Bwith%2Bradio%2Bfriends.jpg 

[Michael Kalin]

So why didn't DPD take a statement from Dodie of Dean's Dairy Way? Myers quotes the survivors:

According to her daughters, Mrs. Dean knew many Dallas policemen because they had come into her store in the past and they knew her. She never gave an affidavit because she felt they knew her and would know where to find her if they needed further information.

Sounds good but DPD did not take statements from any of the purported principal witnesses in the vicinity of the jacket, and none of them shows up in the Tippit murder case papers. Two months later the FBI interviewed Reynolds, Patterson, the Brocks & Roger Ballew. Dodie is conspicuously absent. Why? Surely they knew where she was and at some point decided to consign her to oblivion. Most likely they did not consider her a credible source.

Likewise Myers shows scant confidence in much of the information provided by the daughters, rewriting part & rejecting another part. Why bother at all with them and their story? Here's the payload:

This caused [Mrs. Dean] to look up and out the front window in an easterly direction toward the second-hand store. Just as she did, a young man rounded the corner walking briskly in a westerly direction. As he broke into a run, he was tugging at his jacket, as if to take it off. In those days, the Dairy Way had an overhead door so it made the store fully open rather than windowed, and the cashier’s counter was close to the sidewalk. Mrs. Dean got a good look at the man who passed her at less than ten feet and positively identified him as Lee Harvey Oswald. She stepped outside the store and peered around the corner at the area in-between the store and the Texaco service station next door. She saw Oswald continue behind the service station and into the parking lot.

The goal was to produce a witness who could directly link the throwdown jacket to Oswald, same goal the FBI had when it put words into Patterson's mouth as discussed in a previous post. But this is thin stuff, relying on a juicy element extracted from a stale family memory that is otherwise rejected, cherry picking for the sake of fleshing out a pet theory.

Myers also freely subs in a preferred identity for another that was explicitly reported by a witness, going so far as to claim Kinsley actually saw Reynolds instead of Oswald cross Jefferson in front of the Dudley Hughes ambulance driven by Butler. Nothing if not bold but Reynolds bore about as much resemblance to Oswald as Sergeant Hill, who may have paused at Dean's Dairy Way for a hot fudge sundae, flinging the jacket onto a tire rack and leaving suddenly when sirens sounded nearby, not before giving instructions to Dodie to have someone dump the jacket under an Olds in the back lot. He then rushed across Jefferson to prowl car 207 idling on the opposite side of the street, passing directly in front of the ambulance.

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Here are three of the same photo of Oswald in Minsk wearing a jacket. I am unable to post because I get a message of overlimit. Is someone else able to post any of these? I see what looks like a small tear in the middle of the right forearm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24945209 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/604608318700446294/ 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5ut6mWL981I/VU3CCwuMz4I/AAAAAAAAAjg/fxmcxudhqE0/s1600/123%2Brussia%2Blee%2Bwith%2Bradio%2Bfriends.jpg 

 

And somehow you've got it in your head that what you see in that photo is Oswald wearing a lighter duty gray jacket?

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Bill Brown

[Greg Doudna]

Bill just say whatever your point is.