The 1:22pm DPD radio message translates as The jacket was planted and the witness transplanted (revision)

[Michael Kalin]

35 minutes ago, Donald Willis said:

By the time, though, that Scoggins & Callaway were leaving the scene, the latter may have had the pistol.

Benavides actually identified Callaway as the man who commandeered the cab after grabbing Tippit's gun, but his WC testimony is dubious, featuring himself as the person who made the radio call to report the murder. Other false statements follow culminating in:

Quote

And so Ted then got in the taxicab and the taxicab came to a halt and he asked me which way he went. I told him he went down Patton Street toward the office, and come to find out later Ted had already seen him go by there.
6H452

This implies the cab took the route of Callaway's original DPD statement, but Belin failed to ask the critical question, quickly changing the subject. He must have done his homework. A week earlier Callaway had testified that the cab "went up to 10th" instead of turning around on Patton and heading south.

No point in fussing over this nonsense, an outcome of the complications attendant on first erasing Benavides from the murder scenario, then erasing Bowley, and as a consequence resurrecting Benavides as if a phoenix rising from an obscure pyre. Hard to say if the quirkiness of his WC testimony resulted from inept subornation or an innate resistance to witness coercion.

[Michael Kalin]

Cutting to the apocryphal chase involving vigilante security men running down and disarming vigilante citizens after a near shootout, the Ballad of Scoggs & Cal now takes on mythic proportions. It's a tale told by Ken Holmes Jr, the son of one of the security men. Junior was himself a member of the Dallas County Sheriff's Posse, so it's fitting that he's the source. He was also an Odd Fellow, and what's very odd is that this story debuted in print posthumously in 2013 with the publication of the second edition of Myers' book. McBride's Into the Nightmare [470] also describes the incident, albeit in a less flamboyant version presumably obtained from Greg Lowrey who sometimes worked with Holmes Jr.

Problem is the story fails the test of authenticity for lack of multiple independent sources of attestation (see John Newman's Uncovering Popov's Mole, chapter 15), unless cops & security officers are interchangeable, but this is absurd. A single swipe  with Hitchens' razor* ("what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence") puts an end to it.

IOW there is nothing in the way of corroboration, and little hope of obtaining evidentiary support. Its author died in 2012, funeral services handled by Hughes Funeral Homes, leaving a tall tale in his wake. The rest is silence.

*Thanx to John Iacoletti for acquainting me with this term. See wikipedia for a full explanation.

[Greg Doudna]

16 minutes ago, Michael Kalin said:

Cutting to the apocryphal chase involving vigilante security men running down and disarming vigilante citizens after a near shootout, the Ballad of Scoggs & Cal now takes on mythic proportions (…) Problem is the story fails the test of authenticity for lack of multiple independent sources of attestation (see John Newman's Uncovering Popov's Mole, chapter 15), unless cops & security officers are interchangeable, but this is absurd.

Apart from Holmes Jr telling of his father’s story, both Callaway and Scoggins told of being stopped by what they thought was a law enforcement car which is not otherwise identified. And Helen Markham told Croy, within moments, of seeing Callaway or Scoggins taking Tippits gun with them and leaving the scene of the crime, and then WFAA-TV filmed Tippits revolver in the hands of police at the crime scene in agreement in timing with Callaway’s account of when they returned. I agree the “at gunpoint” of Holmes Sr as told by Jr could be an embellishment in the retelling or maybe it wasn’t who knows, but the persons and encounter itself are all plausible and hang together from the multiple firsthand accounts. All these average random people were not lying and intentionally fabricating wholesale in concert with one another, as part of some orchestrated alternative fictitious narrative. A model of witnesses who almost entirely (n.b. almost; occasional exceptions but uncommon) intended to be truthful but were fallible and made mistakes in perception and memory and influence etc, without a master plan from an invisible top manager marionette-stringing the testimony of cooperating operative wittingly perjuring witnesses, is closer to the accurate picture.

That a cop and security officer could be mistaken one for the other is not “absurd”. Scoggins testified he thought Callaway was a plain clothes cop, etc, easy mistake to make in the heat of the moment if someone is seen issuing orders especially if armed. 

[Greg Doudna]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:12 AM, Michael Kalin said:

It is inexplicable that the cab driver & car salesman did not recognize each other since the former habituated the dominoes club across the street from the latter's POB. 

Why “inexplicable that the cab driver & car salesman did not recognize each other since the former habituated the dominoes club across the street from the patter’s POB”?

I worked at a place once with a bar across the street. I was in there maybe once or twice in three years. I doubt I personally knew 95% of their lunch regular crowd, and I did not know any cabbies unless I personally took a cab and talked to one. 

So I do not understand the dogmatism of the “it is inexplicable”. They said they didn’t know each other before that day. There is no evidence otherwise. Why leap to concluding they were lying? What motive?

[Michael Kalin]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

Apart from Holmes Jr telling of his father’s story, both Callaway and Scoggins told of being stopped by what they thought was a law enforcement car which is not otherwise identified.

Scoggins said they were cops:

FBI (3/17/64) -- "At about the time they left, he noticed some other officers were arriving at the scene. While they were looking for OSWALD, they met some officers in the area, not at the scene, told them what they had seen and that they had the officer's gun. They were returned to the scene by these officers."

WC (3/26/64) -- "We cruised around several blocks looking for him, and we--one of these police cars came by and this fellow who was with me stopped it, and we got back in the car and went back up to the scene, and he give them the pistol, and that time is when I found out he wasn't an officer."

Callaway did not mention an intercept in any of his DPD/SS/FBI/WC statements. I cannot rule out the possibility he may have said otherwise in later years, but it's hard to keep track of how many ways he changed his story. Eventually he put himself behind the wheel of the cab!

Here's what he told the FBI (2/26/64) -- "He said that he never learned the identity of this cab driver, and after they were unable to locate the man he had observed with the pistol, he and the cab driver returned to the scene where Patrolman TIPPIT had been shot and he turned TIPPIT's gun over to Dallas police officers who were at the scene and told them what he knew about the shooting."

Security officers returning from a hunting trip do not look like cops.

There is nothing plausible about either the cab chase or the intercept.

[Michael Kalin]

51 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I worked at a place once with a bar across the street. I was in there maybe once or twice in three years. I doubt I personally knew 95% of their lunch regular crowd, and I did not know any cabbies unless I personally took a cab and talked to one. 

Did you try playing dominoes?

[Greg Doudna]

39 minutes ago, Michael Kalin said:

Did you try playing dominoes?

Was Callaway a domino player across the street from his workplace? He was owner or manager of it, right? And a family man with wife and kid(s). I know the type—hardworking family man owner of a small business. They work long hours and unless they have a particular liking for dominos are unlikely to spend their time during business hours hanging out playing dominos. That’s for retirees, men on the dole … or cabbies taking a break. 🙂 

[Michael Kalin]

3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

They said they didn’t know each other before that day. There is no evidence otherwise. Why leap to concluding they were lying? What motive?

They said they didn't know each other after that day. Callaway was not on board, which is why he does not fit the description given by Scoggins. It also explains why the person who commandeered the cab was unknown to Russell. This was all described in previous comments.

Test question for the fun of it -- if you were the manager of a used car lot (outside job) and a cabbie parked on the street alongside the lot and stepped into a club across the street on a daily basis, how long before you would acquire a sense of recognition?

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Michael Kalin said:

They said they didn't know each other after that day. Callaway was not on board, which is why he does not fit the description given by Scoggins. It also explains why the person who commandeered the cab was unknown to Russell. This was all described in previous comments.

Test question for the fun of it -- if you were the manager of a used car lot (outside job) and a cabbie parked on the street alongside the lot and stepped into a club across the street on a daily basis, how long before you would acquire a sense of recognition?

Fair enough Michael, he’s out and about on his lot, sees the same cabbie at the place across the street, it’s plausible Callaway would recognize Scoggins by sight (though not necessarily vice versa). 

But you cited Callaway to the FBI on 2/26/64 as of that date, “He said that he never learned the identity of the cab driver”.

Callaway says he didn’t know his name, didn’t know who he was either before or after Nov 22 (as of Feb 26). He could have seen and recognized him but had no idea what his name was, who he was other than some cabbie. Why would you expect Callaway to know his name?

Quick question for you: do you know the name of your mail carrier? Some do, maybe you’re one, but a lot of people see someone every day with no idea of their name and identity. Isn’t that what Callaway was telling the FBI on Feb 26?

[Donald Willis]

7 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

Scoggins said they were cops:

FBI (3/17/64) -- "At about the time they left, he noticed some other officers were arriving at the scene. While they were looking for OSWALD, they met some officers in the area, not at the scene, told them what they had seen and that they had the officer's gun. They were returned to the scene by these officers."

WC (3/26/64) -- "We cruised around several blocks looking for him, and we--one of these police cars came by and this fellow who was with me stopped it, and we got back in the car and went back up to the scene, and he give them the pistol, and that time is when I found out he wasn't an officer."

Callaway did not mention an intercept in any of his DPD/SS/FBI/WC statements.

Of course.  Because that would contradict his insistence that they lost the suspect because Scoggins was so nervous.  Callaway was playing the hero, and downgrading other witnesses, like Scoggins and Benavides.  Scoggins of course was induced to downplaying himself--his first, false, statement re returning to the scene with Callaway and directly returning then to cab HQ  was supplanted later in his testimony by his testifying that he left the Tippit scene with the police.  Clearly, he was suborned to make that first statement in order to cover for the fact that he not only talked to police at the scene, he left with them, or one of them.  Why would Fritz & co. not want Scoggins to admit that he was in very close contact with police from the get-go?  Because then his failure to attend any of the Friday lineups & ID Oswald would have been inexplicable.  Pretty obviously, Scoggins did not believe that Oswald was Tippit's killer.  He knew Tippit, thus it's not surprising that he would go on two or three hunts for the perp.

Oh--I say that his second statement re his actions after returning to the scene was the correct one because FBI agent Barrett (I think that's the name) told Dale Myers that he saw Scoggins' cab still at the scene when HE arrived, at about 1:40.  Almost 20 minutes after Scoggins & Callaway returned.  Myers scrupulously fails to mention Scoggins' second, correct take on the subject, and otherwise ignores Barrett's quietly explosive observation in his Tippit narrative.  But it's there in his book, if he'd only take the trouble to read it...

[Michael Kalin]

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Quick question for you: do you know the name of your mail carrier?

I don't know his name, but if he ever commandeers my car while brandishing a dead cop's pistol I will surely identify him as the neighborhood mail carrier.

 

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Some do, maybe you’re one, but a lot of people see someone every day with no idea of their name and identity. Isn’t that what Callaway was telling the FBI on Feb 26?

And a month later he told WC it was Scoggins! Whence the revelation?

Edited January 5 by Michael Kalin

[Michael Kalin]

11 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

Callaway was playing the hero, and downgrading other witnesses, like Scoggins and Benavides.

He certainly was, bluster increasing as he enlarged himself in the role originally cast by Leavelle.

I think you're spot on about Scoggins leaving the scene with police after returning with Tippit's gun. It's the entire account of the wild ride culminating in a nutty mexican standoff that I reject, in particular the latter, bursting into view 50 years after the event.

Scoggins does not mention anything like it in either his 11/23/63 DPD affidavit/FBI report or his 12/2/63 SS report. An encounter with police is described in his 3/17/64 FBI report:

"While they were looking for OSWALD, they met some officers in the area, not at the scene, told them what they had seen and that they had the officer's gun. They were returned to the scene by these officers."

This is echoed in his 3/26/64 WC testimony:

"We cruised around several blocks looking for him, and we--one of these police cars came by and this fellow who was with me stopped it, and we got back in the car and went back up to the scene, and he give them the pistol, and that time is when I found out he wasn't an officer."

Nothing to construe as involving security officers. They do not drive police cars.

It's a common fiction technique, overlaying or extending one tale with another to evolve a plot that props itself up, used to death by writers of hard-boiled dick mysteries. Witness the plethora of farcical Netflix plots that hinge on dark secrets.

[Donald Willis]

6 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

He certainly was, bluster increasing as he enlarged himself in the role originally cast by Leavelle.

I think you're spot on about Scoggins leaving the scene with police after returning with Tippit's gun. It's the entire account of the wild ride culminating in a nutty mexican standoff that I reject, in particular the latter, bursting into view 50 years after the event.

Scoggins does not mention anything like it in either his 11/23/63 DPD affidavit/FBI report or his 12/2/63 SS report. An encounter with police is described in his 3/17/64 FBI report:

"While they were looking for OSWALD, they met some officers in the area, not at the scene, told them what they had seen and that they had the officer's gun. They were returned to the scene by these officers."

This is echoed in his 3/26/64 WC testimony:

"We cruised around several blocks looking for him, and we--one of these police cars came by and this fellow who was with me stopped it, and we got back in the car and went back up to the scene, and he give them the pistol, and that time is when I found out he wasn't an officer."

Nothing to construe as involving security officers. They do not drive police cars.

It's a common fiction technique, overlaying or extending one tale with another to evolve a plot that props itself up, used to death by writers of hard-boiled dick mysteries. Witness the plethora of farcical Netflix plots that hinge on dark secrets.

Can't say I blame you for not trusting accounts popping up some 50 years later.  I myself discount recent witness reports re the Texaco end of the story.  Oh, and Virginia Davis's story of finding yet another shell many years later, recounted in I believe the first edition of the Myers... And don't get me started on Jack Tatum...

[Michael Kalin]

On 1/5/2024 at 4:48 PM, Donald Willis said:

And don't get me started on Jack Tatum...

Tatum's character was sheer fiction. If this were Crime & Punishment he played the role of Svidrigailov to Markham's Dunya, effectively suiciding himself out of the plot by dint of claiming he ushered Markham around the murder scene, even drove her downtown to DPD HQ.

He witnessed nothing.

Edited January 8 by Michael Kalin

[Donald Willis]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:49 PM, Michael Kalin said:

Tatum's character was sheer fiction. If this were Crime & Punishment he played the role of Svidrigailov to Markham's Dunya, effectively suiciding himself out of the plot by dint of claiming he ushered Markham around the murder scene, even drove her downtown to DPD HQ.

He witnessed nothing.

Whyever was he brought in, in the first place?  To explain a CU shot to the head??