Zapruder frame 317

[Kevin Balch]

24 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

That's the stuff of batshit crazy, of course...

That is not an obstacle to more than a few.

Just slightly crazier than believing Greer would have stopped or even slowed down the limo so that multiple assassins shooting from as far as several hundred feet away could get a shot at a target maybe 6 feet away from him and hoping he is not in their way.

[Christian Toussay]

 

... I do believe a new, concerted effort to analyze the photographic and film record with 21st Century tools and methods is needed.

I remember hearing about those two Hollywood experts concluding that Z 317 showed an artificial patch hiding the back of JFK's head in the Z film. I even downloaded the frame to examine it myself, but got too busy with my own discoveries to pursue this track specific clue

I did, however, examine the possibility of alteration of the occipital head wound, using Z 337, which shows a perfect profile of JFK's head. My reasoning was that, since all the witnesses describe an avulsive exit wound with blasted bones surrounding  a hole devoid of bone, it would be easier to spot in this profile shot.

As it happens, I was right, and I posted the results in the "Jfk's Head Wounds" thread. Since most people could not access the image, here it is again:

 

 

Z 337 is about 1 second after Z 317, so no human intervention of any kind has been applied to the wound. What we see in Z 337 is as close as we can get to the real aspect of the wound, about 1 second after the head shot.

Evidently, Z 337 has been forged.  The original frame does not show any ominous black patch, but does exhibit what appears to be heavy blurring in the occipital area. This burring, as shown in the result posted above, is entirely artificial, and simply vanishes through the processing of the frame.

So, since forgery to hide the occipital wound is definitely present in Z 337, logic would tend to indicate that forgery was also applied to all frames showing the back of JFK's head, like for instance Z 317...

I don't think you need to be any expert in visual optics to realize that the "black patch" in the original frame is unnatural.

In order to contribute something valuabe to this interesting thread, this is what I did: I captured yesterday a version of Z 317 from this thread, and started processing it.

From experience, this is what will normally follow:

- first, the process will produce results establishing that the "black patch" is not part of the original picture, but is an artificial addition. This should be quite easy for the process, and thus quite rapid.

- then the process will start looking for weak signals still present in the altered area, and retrieve them by iterative accretion. This will take more time: it can go from a few days from several weeks, depending on variables (image quality and operational steps taken to analyze the image).

Actually, this is a real-time test of the methodology.

 

So I post now below a result obtained on Z 317 yesterday, after about 45 minutes of working on it.

Please note that the shape of the patch is clearly seen here, and is clearly artificial: it shows an almost perfect half circle covering the occiput, with a perfectly straight bisecting line joining the two extremities of the half circle:

 

 

There is simply no conventional explanation for the massive discrepancy in grain / texture between the black spot, and other areas of the image., except deliberate forgery.

Here is a simple negative of the result above, confirming the artificiality of the "black patch"...:

 

 

From experience, it would appear to me that alterations were also done on JFK's right arm, and the shadows surrounding Jackie's face. My guess is that was done by the forgers to darken those specific areas, so that they may look more compatible with the black patch, in terms of light distribution.

 

I will let you know here how the retrieving of weak signals progresses...

 

 

 

 

[Kevin Balch]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:03 PM, Nick Bartetzko said:

I'm in the minority, but I think a storm drain shot is a good possibility. Newsman Sam Pate supposedly saw smoke coming from the storm drain. If I recall correctly, Pate was on the Stemmons freeway, quite a distance away though. The other reference to the storm drain was supposedly by Will Fritz to Francis Fruge (involved with the Rose Cheramie matter). Fritz allegedly told Fruge that the Dallas PD found maps of the sewer system in the apt of Sergio Arcacha Smith. Finally, the trajectory from the storm drain seems to fit the best/make the most sense as to the injuries and blood spatter on the left side police motorcycles. JFK's right arm and elbow seemingly flew upwards from the impact.

A shot from the storm drain would also have come from the front/right so it would also have to address the question I posed. Further, would JFK’s head have even been visible for a shooter located there? Has anyone even tried to determine that?

[Nick Bartetzko]

20 minutes ago, Kevin Balch said:

A shot from the storm drain would also have come from the front/right so it would also have to address the question I posed. Further, would JFK’s head have even been visible for a shooter located there? Has anyone even tried to determine that?

There was a guy years ago named Jack Brazil that analyzed access to the storm drain and also took pics from inside. It certainly appeared doable. I gave all that information to a member here named Dean Hagerman. Found out later that wasn't his real name....

[Christian Toussay]

17 minutes ago, Kevin Balch said:

Further, would JFK’s head have even been visible for a shooter located there? Has anyone even tried to determine that?

 

...The theory of a shot from the drain is alluring, but in my view suffers from severe constrictions:

- the line of sight would be very limited, with very limited space for the shooter to adjust

- the line of sight of a drain shooter would be heavily influenced by the position of the limousine relative to the storm drain and of the escort bikes relative to the target

This last point means that the use of a storm drain shooter  is only conceivable if the movements of the limousine once it entered Dealey Plaza where precisely choreographed to allow for such a shot. Any slight derivation of any of the variables (speed and location of target, speed and location of DPD escort bikes, some bystander stepping on the street...) could derail the assassination. I would guess that the plotters went for a more secure modus operandi: three or four shooters surrounding the target from different locations and elevations, with lines of sight allowing for long sequences of target acquisition.

That being said, the actions, and inactions of the Secret Service in Dallas clearly show that this Agency was a crucial element in the JFKA. The fact that the limousine stop has disappeared from the extant films (despite 51 eyewitnesses...) indicates that there was something embarrassing here for the official version. And the fact that Agent Hill, the one not supposed to be here, suddenly realized that he would reach the President more rapidly by running than by waiting for the SS car, of which he was a passenger, to accelerate to protect the President, as is their duty, in my opinion closes the case.

Secret Service complicity is I would think evident, and what they did or did not do that day in Dallas weighs heavily on what finally happened: the illegal motorcade route, the reduced motorcycle escort, the incredibly slow speed inside the kill zone, the total absence of reaction from the Secret Service car just behind the President during the shooting, the stop before the fatal head shot, the illegal kidnapping of the body from Dallas, the delivery of the body to military authorities for a deliberately botched autopsy...

I don't believe this plan needs a storm drain shooter, but I could be wrong. Possibly if we can have the precise location and orientation of JFK's head relative to the storm drain we could go further: we have now quite good images of JFK's head wounds, some of which I posted here.

[Christian Toussay]

54 minutes ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

There was a guy years ago named Jack Brazil that analyzed access to the storm drain and also took pics from inside. It certainly appeared doable. I gave all that information to a member here named Dean Hagerman. Found out later that wasn't his real name....

..Those pics can be found in H E Livingstone book, "Kaleidoscope".

The book is not easy to read, since it is essentially a rant / diatribe against Doug Horne and David Lifton, but does contain valuable information.

But the storm drain investigated by Brazil is located at the extremity of the Triple Overpass. If that is the location of a "storm drain" shooter, this would fit more with the facts: a frontal, low-angle trajectory.

I was talking about the theory of a shot coming from one of the sewer openings along the street, where one of the DPD bikers had parked his bike...

[Nick Bartetzko]

1 hour ago, Christian Toussay said:

..Those pics can be found in H E Livingstone book, "Kaleidoscope".

The book is not easy to read, since it is essentially a rant / diatribe against Doug Horne and David Lifton, but does contain valuable information.

But the storm drain investigated by Brazil is located at the extremity of the Triple Overpass. If that is the location of a "storm drain" shooter, this would fit more with the facts: a frontal, low-angle trajectory.

I was talking about the theory of a shot coming from one of the sewer openings along the street, where one of the DPD bikers had parked his bike...

My strong recollection of Jack Brazil's work is about the sewer opening along the street near the stairs. There might be some photos from the opening up high by the bridge, but that was not the emphasis of his work.

[Christian Toussay]

2 minutes ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

My strong recollection of Jack Brazil's work is about the sewer opening along the street near the stairs. There might be some photos from the opening up high by the bridge, but that was not the emphasis of his work.

...I am talking about page 339 of Livingstone "Kaleidoscope", which shows three images of Jack Brazil standing in " the storm drain on the north end of the Triple Underpass, facing east".

This would be in my opinion a more plausible location for a fourth shooter.

[Kevin Balch]

3 hours ago, Christian Toussay said:

That being said, the actions, and inactions of the Secret Service in Dallas clearly show that this Agency was a crucial element in the JFKA. The fact that the limousine stop has disappeared from the extant films (despite 51 eyewitnesses...) indicates that there was something embarrassing here for the official version. And the fact that Agent Hill, the one not supposed to be here, suddenly realized that he would reach the President more rapidly by running than by waiting for the SS car, of which he was a passenger, to accelerate to protect the President, as is their duty, in my opinion closes the case.

Who would knowingly drive a vehicle into an ambush from shooters at multiple locations firing over distances of up to several hundred feet away? In the film Executive Action, the sniper teams practiced using a target car driven by a driver with a helmet and a flak vest or towed the target car by a long cable. Further, why would the driver stop the vehicle? If the shooters are tracking the target, the worst thing for them would be for the target to make a sudden stop or acceleration.

Why didn’t any of the witnesses in either the presidential limo or the secret service follow up car report that the limousine stopped? Certainly, Dave Powers or Kenny O’Donnell who were in the secret service follow up car would have seen and physically sensed this.

The secret service follow up car was supposed to maintain a distance of about 5 feet behind the presidential limo to allow agents to reach the limo if necessary. At some point, Clint Hill was going to have to get out and run to climb on to the back of the limo unless he climbed onto to the hood of the follow up car and try to jump.

Doug Horne admits that the alterationists probably couldn’t do anything about the position of passengers in the car with the tools and time that they had. Yet a sudden stop of the car would have required exactly that to hide the motion of the passengers reacting to such a sudden stop. After the throat shot, JFK was incapacitated and probably would have ended up colliding with the back of Connally’s seat and ending up on the floor from a sudden stop.

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

8 hours ago, Christian Toussay said:

...I am talking about page 339 of Livingstone "Kaleidoscope", which shows three images of Jack Brazil standing in " the storm drain on the north end of the Triple Underpass, facing east".

This would be in my opinion a more plausible location for a fourth shooter.

I might have that Livingston book, but I moved and it's in a box somewhere. My strong recollection is that Jack Brazil discussed BOTH locations. I am certain he also took pics of the inside of the street level storm drain, a photo from inside toward the view of the street and there's also a photo with the cover off the manhole on the sidewalk and he is inside with his body protruding halfway. There is also a photo of the Trinity River and bridge where Brazil claims was an entrance where the underground tunnel  drainage system could be accessed. Are any of these specific photos that I'm describing in Livingston's book? If not, he wasn't aware of them (unlikely) or he didn't include them for whatever reason. As I've been to Dealey Plaza twice, that north end location would be a very difficult shot. I had the Brazil materials in my home for some years before I gave them to forum member "Dean Hagerman"...

[Christian Toussay]

 

...sorry, duplicate post...

Edited May 13 by Christian Toussay

[Keven Hofeling]

16 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

Who would knowingly drive a vehicle into an ambush from shooters at multiple locations firing over distances of up to several hundred feet away? In the film Executive Action, the sniper teams practiced using a target car driven by a driver with a helmet and a flak vest or towed the target car by a long cable. Further, why would the driver stop the vehicle? If the shooters are tracking the target, the worst thing for them would be for the target to make a sudden stop or acceleration.

Why didn’t any of the witnesses in either the presidential limo or the secret service follow up car report that the limousine stopped? Certainly, Dave Powers or Kenny O’Donnell who were in the secret service follow up car would have seen and physically sensed this.

The secret service follow up car was supposed to maintain a distance of about 5 feet behind the presidential limo to allow agents to reach the limo if necessary. At some point, Clint Hill was going to have to get out and run to climb on to the back of the limo unless he climbed onto to the hood of the follow up car and try to jump.

Doug Horne admits that the alterationists probably couldn’t do anything about the position of passengers in the car with the tools and time that they had. Yet a sudden stop of the car would have required exactly that to hide the motion of the passengers reacting to such a sudden stop. After the throat shot, JFK was incapacitated and probably would have ended up colliding with the back of Connally’s seat and ending up on the floor from a sudden stop.

 

KEVIN BALCH WROTE:

Quote

Who would knowingly drive a vehicle into an ambush from shooters at multiple locations firing over distances of up to several hundred feet away? In the film Executive Action, the sniper teams practiced using a target car driven by a driver with a helmet and a flak vest or towed the target car by a long cable. Further, why would the driver stop the vehicle? If the shooters are tracking the target, the worst thing for them would be for the target to make a sudden stop or acceleration.

Here is Vince Palamar's very interesting analysis of William Greer's statements and testimony about stopping the limo (which has been excised from the extant Zapruder film) in Chapter Ten of his latest book entitled "A Master List of Witnesses Who Stated That the Limousine  Slowed or Stopped– A Deadly Delay on Elm Street ":
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"...William Manchester, who interviewed Greer, tells us what the driver told Jackie on 11/22/63 at Parkland Hospital: “Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn’t mean to do it [?!?!], I didn’t hear [who, Kellerman?], I should have swerved the car [how about hitting the gas?], I couldn’t help it [!]. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it [?] I swerved. If only I’d seen it in time! Oh!” (The Death of a President, p.290). All these witnesses and the Zapruder film document Secret Service agent William R. Greer’s deceleration of the presidential limousine, as well as his two separate looks back at JFK during the assassination (Greer denied all of this to the Warren Commission). By decelerating from an already slow 11.2 mph, Greer greatly endangered the President’s life, and, as even Gerald Posner admitted, Greer contributed greatly to the success of the assassination. When we consider that Greer disobeyed a direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line before the fatal shot struck the President’s head, it is hard to give Agent Greer the benefit of the doubt. As ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman said: “Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me” (The Death of a President by William Manchester, p. 160). Clearly, Greer was responsible, at fault, and felt remorse. In short, Greer had survivor’s guilt. 

But, then, stories and feelings changed. 

Agent Greer to the FBI 11/22/63: “Greer stated that he first heard what he thought was possibly a motorcycle backfire and glanced around and noticed that the President had evidently been hit [notice that, early on, Greer admits seeing JFK, which the Zapruder proves he did two times before the fatal head shot occurred]. He thereafter got on the radio and communicated with the other vehicles, stating that they desired to get the President to the hospital immediately [in reality, Greer did not talk on the radio, and Greer went on to deny ever saying this during his WC testimony].Greer stated that they (the Secret Service) have always been instructed to keep the motorcade moving at a considerable speed in as much as a moving car offers a much more difficult target than a vehicle traveling at a very slow speed. He pointed out that on numerous occasions he has attempted to keep the car moving at a rather fast rate, but in view of the President’s popularity and desire to maintain close liaison with the people, he has, on occasion, been instructed by the President to “slow down.” Greer stated that he has been asking himself if there was anything he could have done to have avoided this incident, but stated that things happened so fast that he could not account for full developments in this matter (!) [the “JFK-as-scapegoat” theme – and so much for Greer’s remorse from earlier the same day].” (Sibert & O’Neill Report, 11/22/63) 

Agent Greer to the FBI 11/27/63: “He heard a noise which sounded like a motorcycle backfire. On hearing this noise he glanced to his right toward Kellerman and out of the corner of his eye noticed that the Governor appeared to be falling toward his wife [notice that Greer now mentions nothing about seeing JFK hit – he does the same thing in his undated report in the WC volumes (18 H 723)] He thereafter recalls hearing some type of outcry after which Kellerman said, “Let’s get out of here.” He further related that at the time of hearing the sound he was starting down an incline which passes beneath a railroad crossing and after passing under this viaduct, he closed in on the lead car and yelled to the occupants and a nearby police motorcyclist, “Hospital, Hospital! [nothing about using the radio this time out]” Thereafter follows a complete physical description of Greer, as if the FBI agents considered him a suspect, including age, height, and color of eyes! (Sibert & O’Neill Report, 11/29/63) 

Critical excerpts from Greer’s 3/9/64 Warren Commission testimony before Arlen Specter:

Mr. Specter: Were you able to see anything of President Kennedy as you glanced to the rear?

Mr. Greer: No, sir; I didn’t see anything of the President, I didn’t look, I wasn’t far enough around to see the President.

Mr. Specter: When you started that glance, are you able to recollect whether you started to glance before, exactly simultaneously with or after that second shot?

Mr. Greer: It was almost simultaneously that he had – something had hit, you know, when I had seen him. It seemed like in the same second almost that something had hit, you know, whenever I turned around. I saw him start to fall.

Mr. Specter: Did you step on the accelerator before, simultaneously or after Mr. Kellerman instructed you to accelerate?

Mr. Greer: It was about simultaneously.

Mr. Specter: So that it was your reaction to accelerate prior to the time – 

Mr. Greer: Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter: You had gotten that instruction?

Mr. Greer: Yes, sir; it was my reaction that caused me to accelerate.

Mr. Specter: Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot?

Mr. Greer: I couldn’t really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator.

Mr. Specter: Was it at about that time that you heard the third shot?

Mr. Greer: Yes, sir; just as soon as I turned my head

[…]

Mr. Specter: To the best of your current recollection, did you notice that the President had been hit?

Mr. Greer: No, sir; I didn’t know how badly he was injured or anything other than that. I didn’t know.

Mr. Specter: Did you know at all, from the glance which you have described that he had been hit or injured in any way?

Mr. Greer: I knew he was injured in some way, but I didn’t know how bad or what.

Mr. Specter: How did you know that?

Mr. Greer: If I remember now, I just don’t remember how I knew, but I knew we were in trouble. I knew that he was injured, but I can’t remember, recollect, just how I knew there were injuries in there. I didn’t know who all was hurt, even.

Mr. Specter: Are you able to recollect whether you saw the President after the shots as you were proceeding toward Parkland Hospital?

Mr. Greer: No; I don’t remember ever seeing him anymore until I got to the hospital, and he was lying across the seat, you know, and that is the first I had seen of him.

Mr. Specter: Your best recollection is, then, that you had the impression he was injured but you couldn’t ascertain the source of that information?

Mr. Greer: Right. I couldn’t ascertain the source. 

Warren Commission finding: “The driver, Special Agent William R. Greer, has testified that he accelerated the car after what was probably the second shot.… The Presidential car did not stop or almost come to a complete halt after the firing of the first shot or any other shots.” (WC Report, page 641).

  11/19/64 interview with Death of a President author William Manchester [RIF#180-10116-10119] – ”After the second shot I glanced back. I saw blood on the Governor’s white shirt, and I knew we were in trouble. The blood was coming out of his right breast. When I heard the first shot, I had thought it was a backfire. I was tramping on the accelerator and at the same time Roy was saying, let’s get out of here fast.”..."   

"...Warren Commission finding: “The driver, Special Agent William R. Greer, has testified that he accelerated the car after what was probably the second shot.… The Presidential car did not stop or almost come to a complete halt after the firing of the first shot or any other shots.”(WCReport, page 641)...."

But remember what Roy Kellerman said: “Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me” (The Death of a President by William Manchester, p. 160). 

2/28/78 HSCA interview [RIF#180-10099-10491] – ”The first shot sounded to him like a backfire. He did not react to it. After the second shot he turned to his right and saw blood on Governor Connally’s shirt. At the same moment he heard Kellerman say “We’re hit. Let’s get out of here,” or words to that effect. He said he immediately accelerated and followed the pilot car to Parkland Hospital [However, DNC Advance man Jack Puterbaugh, who rode in the pilot car, said they “pulled over and let the motorcade pass” (HSCA interview 4/14/78). The Washington Post from 2/28/85 reported Greer as saying that “I just looked straight ahead at the car in which the police chief was leading our way to the hospital” – this is the lead car. Nevertheless, the Daniel film and still photos depict the limousine ahead of the lead car, as it appears it was the lead motorcyclists who guided Greer to Parkland. 

Bill Greer passed away from cancer on 2/23/85. 

From a 9/17/91 interview with Bill’s son Richard: 

When asked, “What did your father think of JFK,” Richard did not respond the first time. When this author asked him a second time, he responded: “Well, we’re Methodists … and JFK was Catholic…” (Bill Greer was born and raised in County Tyrone, Ireland; 2 H 112 - 113) 

“My father certainly didn’t blame himself; it’s not one of those things – if only I was driving one mile per hour faster. 

“My father had absolutely no survivor’s guilt … he figured that events were kind out of their control... it was pretty common knowledge that a person riding in an open car was subject to a bullet at any time…” 

In any event, although the presidential limousine did not actually come to a full and complete stop during the assassination [1], it did slow down long enough to greatly help in the success of the assassination."

Chapter Ten of 'HONEST ANSWERS ABOUT THE MURDER OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY' by Vince Palamara (Courtesy of Vince Palamara)

"Master List of Witnesses Who Stated That the Limousine Slowed or Stopped – A Deadly Delay on Elm Street"

LINK TO PDF OF CHAPTER TEN: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnVVyr2Qcdy-gccV7bF_4Je5GuEYaA?e=E6b8Ay

LINK TO POST OF CHAPTER TEN: https://www.facebook.com/groups/political assassinations researchhgroup/posts/5063457320376963/

 

KEVIN BALCH WROTE:

Quote

Why didn’t any of the witnesses in either the presidential limo or the secret service follow up car report that the limousine stopped? Certainly, Dave Powers or Kenny O’Donnell who were in the secret service follow up car would have seen and physically sensed this.

You can find the accounts of Dave Powers and Kenny O'Donnell in the following. Thet are suggestive of the stop, but their testimony has been cleaned up.

Chapter Ten of 'HONEST ANSWERS ABOUT THE MURDER OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY' by Vince Palamara (Courtesy of Vince Palamara)

"Master List of Witnesses Who Stated That the Limousine Slowed or Stopped – A Deadly Delay on Elm Street"

The following is a complete listing, the largest one ever compiled, of every single witness I could find – over 70 in all – who stated that the limousine either slowed down or stopped. This deadly delay on Elm Street was Secret Service agent Bill Greer’s fault, pure and simple; he was the limousine driver. As even lone-nut authors agree, Greer’s inept driving of the limo during the shooting allowed the assassination to be a tragic success....

LINK TO PDF OF CHAPTER TEN: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnVVyr2Qcdy-gccV7bF_4Je5GuEYaA?e=E6b8Ay

LINK TO POST OF CHAPTER TEN: https://www.facebook.com/groups/political assassinations researchhgroup/posts/5063457320376963/

For example, Powers and O'Donnell believed the shots that struck the President were fired from the front of the motorcade but were advised that it couldn't have happened that way by the Secret Service:

'KEN O'DONNELL ON GRASSY KNOLL SHOTS'

“I told the FBI what I had heard [two shots from behind the grassy knoll fence], but they said it couldn’t have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn’t want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family.”

– Kennedy aide Kenneth O’Donnell, quoted by House Speaker Thomas P. “Tip” O’Neill Jr. in “Man of the House,” p. 178. O’Donnell was riding in the Secret Service follow-up car with Dave Powers, who was present and told O’Neill he had the same recollection.

https://jfkfacts.org/ken-odonnell-on-grassy-knoll-shots/

"...Yes Dave Powers did film partly through the motorcade, but ran out of film before entering the Kill Zone/Dealy Plaza; thus, he did not record the JFK assassination, but eye-witnessed it from behind the motorcade in the follow-up car. “I was assigned to ride in the Secret Service automobile which proceeded immediately behind the President’s car in the motorcade…I sat in the jump seat on the right side of the car…” (http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/powers1.htm).

As noted, Dave Powers, Kennedy’s Special Assistant, rode in the Secret Service follow-up car with Ken O’Donnell. Powers affidavit states: “My first impression was that the shots came from the right and overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the over-pass, that we might have ridden into an ambush.”

https://jfkfacts.org/ken-odonnell-on-grassy-knoll-shots/#comment-298881

'Tip O'Neill: FBI Pressured JFK aides to Change Testimony'

Gil Jesus | Apr 3, 2024

Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough rebelliously resisted the efforts of the Warren Commission to change his testimony about the stop of the Presidential Limousine in Dealey Plaza, as he describes as follows:

"A couple of fellows [from the Warren Commission] came to see me. They walked in like they were a couple of deputy sheriffs and I was a bank robber. I didn't like their attitude. As a senator I felt insulted. They went off and wrote up something and brought it back for me to sign. But I refused. I threw it in a drawer and let it lay there for weeks. And they had on there the last sentence which stated: 'This is all I know about the assassination.' They wanted me to sign this thing, then say this is all I know. Of course, I would never have signed it. Finally, after some weeks, they began to bug me. 'You're holding this up, you're holding this up' they said, demanding that I sign the report. So I typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot is fired.' I sent that over. That's dated July 10, 1964, after the assassination. To my surprise, when the volumes were finally printed and came out, I was surprised at how many people down at the White House didn't file their affidavits until after the date, after mine the 10th of July, waiting to see what I was going to say before they filed theirs. I began to lose confidence then in their investigation and that's further eroded with time." - Texas Sen. Ralph Yarborough https://senatoryarborough.tripod.com/

 

KEVIN BALCH WROTE:

Quote

The secret service follow up car was supposed to maintain a distance of about 5 feet behind the presidential limo to allow agents to reach the limo if necessary. At some point, Clint Hill was going to have to get out and run to climb on to the back of the limo unless he climbed onto to the hood of the follow up car and try to jump.

The testimony of the DPD motorcycle patrolment who were flanking the limousine about the Presidential Motorcade coming to a stop and the Secret Service agents in the follow up car momentarily dispersing is instructive:

Larry Rivera wrote:

14 January 2019 at 12:19 pm | https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-episode-107-douglas-horne-on-the-zapruder-film-alteration-debate/

ST, unfortunately, my two-part “JFK Horsemen” videos mentioned by Douglas were scrubbed by Youtube last year after receiving thousands of views and likes. In the audiotapes provided to me by Tyler Newcomb, whose father Fred wrote “Murder From Within”, it was clearly established by the motorcycle escort, Hargis, Martin, Chaney, Jackson, and their supervisor Stavis Ellis, that the limo came to a complete stop, where a Secret Service agent snatched a piece of JFK’s skull from a kid standing on the South curb of Elm Street then tossed into the limo, five Secret Service agents dismounted and ran up to and surrounded JFK’s limo with guns drawn, AND Chaney described how Hargis parked his bike and “ran in between the two limos” on his way up the embankment. None of this is seen in any of the films that survive today. Moreover, one of the very first reports by Cronkite described “Secret Service Agents fanning out into the crowd, looking for the assassin”

This is the reason why the motorcycle cops were hidden away and suppressed for years from researchers. To give you an example, Hargis and Martin were the only ones who testified before the Warren Commission for a grand total of 7 1/2 pages! The FBI did not interview any of the escorts until 1975, well after the fact, and it was only to establish shots from behind. These reports read like true theater of the absurd, where they are portrayed as looking over their shoulders toward the TSBD when in fact you see none of this in any of the films.

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ALL FOUR OF THE DALLAS POLICE MOTORCYCLISTS FLANKING THE REAR OF JFK'S LIMOUSINE REPORTED THAT THE LIMO CAME TO A COMPLETE STOP IN DEALEY PLAZA:

 "... The vagaries of eyewitness testimony are well known, and it might be argued that these police witnesses (as well as the other witnesses who also reported the limousine deceleration) were simply mistaken about what they observed. This seems extremely unlikely, however, because all four of the Dallas police motorcyclists flanking the rear of JFK’s limousine also reported the limousine stopped or slowed...."  
 
Donald E. Wilkes, Jr.
Professor of Law Emeritus at the University of Georgia School of Law.
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"...I will now point to some of the evidence that the limousine did indeed stop or slow down. I pass over similar reports made by civilian spectators and news media people, and limit myself to reports made by police officers in or near Dealey Plaza. 

Using binoculars, Harry D. Holmes, a federal postal inspector, watched the presidential limousine as it turned from Houston Street and then proceeded down Elm Street from his fifth floor office window in a building two blocks from Dealey Plaza. He testified to the Warren Commission that he heard what sounded like three firecrackers. He saw what he thought was dust coming out of JFK’s head. Then: “The car almost came to a stop.” 

Earle V. Brown was a Dallas policeman standing on the overpass of the Stemmons Freeway, about 100 yards from Elm Street. Here is an excerpt from his Warren Commission testimony: 

MR. BROWN: “[T]he first I noticed the car was when it stopped.” 

MR. BALL (Warren Commission counsel): “Where?” 

MR. BROWN: After it made the turn [from Houston Street to Elm Street] and when the shots were fired, it stopped.” 

MR. BALL: “Did it come to a complete stop?” 

MR. BROWN: “That I couldn’t swear to.” 

MR. BALL: “It appeared to be slowed down some?” 

MR. BROWN: “Yes; slowed down.” 

MR. BALL: “Did you hear the shots?” 

MR. BROWN: “Yes, sir.” 

J.W. Foster was a Dallas policeman stationed on the railroad overpass at the corner of Elm, Main and Commerce Streets. In a statement to the FBI made on Mar. 26, 1964, he said: “Immediately after President Kennedy was struck with a second bullet, the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb …” 

D.V. Harkness was a Dallas policeman standing in Dealey Plaza south of Elm Street. Here is part of his Warren Commission testimony: 

MR. BELIN (Warren Commission counsel): “What did you do [when you heard the gunshots]?” 

MR. HARKNESS: “When I saw the first shot and the President’s car slow down to almost a stop—“ 

MR. BELIN: “When you saw the first shot. What do you mean by that?” 

MR. HARKNESS: “When I heard the first shot and saw the President’s car almost come to a stop and some of the agents piling off the car, I went back to the intersection to get my motorcycle.” 

The vagaries of eyewitness testimony are well known, and it might be argued that these police witnesses (as well as the other witnesses who also reported the limousine deceleration) were simply mistaken about what they observed. This seems extremely unlikely, however, because all four of the Dallas police motorcyclists flanking the rear of JFK’s limousine also reported the limousine stopped or slowed. 

Officer Bobby Hargis was the inside rider at the left rear of the limousine. In his testimony to the Warren Commission he said: “[W]hen President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of bloody water. It wasn’t really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down… I felt blood hit me in the face, and the Presidential car stopped immediately after that and stayed stopped for about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed.” According to an undated, unpublished transcript of an interview he had with the Dallas Times-Herald, Hargis told the newspaper: “I felt blood hit me in the face, and the presidential car stopped immediately after that and stayed stopped about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed.” (In a video of a 1995 interview, now on YouTube, you can watch Hargis tell the interviewer: “That guy [the Secret Service agent driving JFK’s limousine] slowed down… [He] slowed down almost to a stop.”) Hargis died in 2014. 

Officer B.J. Martin was the outside rider at the left rear of the limousine. He told the Warren Commission: “It [the motorcade] slowed down just before we made the turn on Elm Street [from Houston Street].” Officer Martin was later interviewed by researchers Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams and told them, as reported in their unpublished 1974 manuscript Murder from Within, that he observed the limousine stop for “just a moment.” 

Officer James M. Chaney was the inside rider at the right rear of the limousine. He did not testify before the Warren Commission, but two days after the assassination he was quoted in the Houston Chronicle as stating that the limousine stopped immediately after the first shot. Furthermore, Dallas police officer Marrion L. Baker, a Dallas police motorcyclist who was on Houston Street when the first shot was fired, testified to the Warren Commission that shortly after the assassination he had talked with officer Chaney and that Chaney told him that “from the time the shot rang out, the [limousine] stopped completely, pulled to the left, and stopped.” Officer Baker added: “Several officers said it stopped completely.” When then asked whether he had heard from other Dallas police officers that the limousine had stopped, he testified: “Yes, sir; that it had completely stopped, and then for a moment there, and then they rushed on out to Parkland [Hospital].” 

Officer Douglas Jackson was the outside rider at the right rear of the limousine. He did not testify before the Warren Commission, but he did tell researchers Newcomb and Adams that “the [limousine] just all but stopped… just a moment.”..." 

Donald E. Wilkes, Jr. is a Professor of Law Emeritus at the University of Georgia School of Law, where he taught for 40 years. He has published nearly 50 articles in Flagpole magazine on the JFK assassination.  

 Wilkes, Donald E. Jr., "Grassy Knoll Shots? Limousine Slowdown?" (2017). Popular Media. 279. https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1284&context=fac_pm

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis's Accounts of Stop of Presidential Limo During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman B.J. Martin on Presidential Limo Stopping During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman Harry Freeman Stopped in Front of Presidential Limo During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman James Courson Says JFK Limo Stopped When Interviewed for 50th Anniversary

DPD Supervising Motorcycle Patrolman Stavis Ellis re Skull Fragment Put Back in Limo During Stop

Researcher Larry Rivera Explains Skull Fragment Being Placed Back in Limo During Assassination

 

KEVIN BALCH WROTE:

Quote

Doug Horne admits that the alterationists probably couldn’t do anything about the position of passengers in the car with the tools and time that they had. Yet a sudden stop of the car would have required exactly that to hide the motion of the passengers reacting to such a sudden stop. After the throat shot, JFK was incapacitated and probably would have ended up colliding with the back of Connally’s seat and ending up on the floor from a sudden stop.

The footage of the Connallys and Secret Service agents at the time of the head shot -- in my estimation -- is from an earlier point in time when the limo was coming to a screeching halt (all four of them show the signs of simultaneous and involuntary reaction to the gravitational forces of the stop), and the headshot took place while the limo was at full stop, but these two moments in time have been spliced together in the extant Zapruder film.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/politicalassassinationsresearchgroup/posts/5141044579284903/

Look closely at the Secret Service Agents and the Connallys reacting to the gravitational momentum of the limo stop which the Hawkeyeworks technicians were unable to remaove from the Zapruder film:

And see this cropped footage of the Connallys being thrown forward by the greavitational momentum of the limo coming to a screeching halt:

 

What do you think Bill Newman, Charles Brehm, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill (those closest to the limo at the time of the head shot) all said about the limo coming to a stop?  All four of them said it had in fact come to a stop...
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From Vince Palamara's article, ‘Fifty–nine Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street’, Dealey Plaza Echo, vol.3 no.2 (July 1992), pp.1–7.

William Newman was adamant that the car stopped. Palamara cites several accounts of interviews with researchers: “the car momentarily stopped and the driver seemed to have a radio or phone up to his ear and he seemed to be waiting on some word. … Then the cars roared off. … I’ve maintained that they stopped. I still say they did. It was only a momentary stop, but … I believe Kennedy’s car came to a full stop after the final shot. Now everywhere that you read about it, you don’t read anything about the car stopping. And when I say ‘stopped’ I mean very momentarily, like they hit the brakes and just a few seconds passed and then they floorboarded and accelerated on … and just for a moment they hesitated and stopped.”

http://22november1963.org.uk/did-jfk-limo-stop-on-elm-street
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From 'An Interview with Assassination Eye Witness Bill Newman', THE DEALEY PLAZA ECHO, Volume 2, March 1992:

 " and the car momentarily stopped" 

And then I can remember that when we were on the ground - I'd like to bring this up if I may - looking back over my shoulder I can remember, I believe it was the passenger in the front seat - there were two men in the front seat - had a telephone or something to his ear and the car momentarily stopped. Now everywhere that you read about it, you don't read anything about the car stopping. And when I say "stopped" I mean very momentarily, like they hit the brakes and just a few seconds passed and then they floorboarded and accelerated on." 

LAW: "But you don't really see that in the Zapruder film." 

NEWMAN: "No, you don't. But anyway, that's the impression I'm left with." 

LAW: "Several people said that the car stopped." 

NEWMAN: "Yes, and then they shot on. You know, through the overpass, the railroad overpass, and that's the last we saw of them."

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/N Disk/Newman William & Gayle/Item 01.pdf
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From the 11/25/1963 FBI report of interview of Charles F. Brehm:

 "...BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only Seemed to move some 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight...."

 https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1425.pdf
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From the 11/22/1963 FBI report of interview of Mary Moorman:

"...[Mary Moorman] recalls that the President's automobile was moving at the time she took the second picture, and when she heard the shots, and has the impression that the car either stopped momentarily or hesitated and then drove off in a hurry..." 

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1426.pdf
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From the 11/22/1963 Dallas County Sheriff's Department report of interview of Jean Hill:

"Mary Moorman started to take a picture. We were looking at the president and Jackie in the back seat... Just as the president looked up two shots rang out and I saw the president grab his chest and fell forward across Jackie's lap... There was an instant pause between two shots and the motorcade seemingly halted for an instant. Three or four more shots rang out and the motorcade sped away."

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340264/m1/1/

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Edited May 13 by Keven Hofeling

[Christian Toussay]

 

...a good presentation of the case for the reality of the limousine stop. Even if I had not find confirmation myself, the suppression of the stop would still convince me that the film has been altered.

This means of course that the car stop is a crucial element in the crime, which they did not want us to know about in the first place. The interesting thing in this, I would think, is that we see Greer developing a convoluted explanation for his actions during the shooting, actions that, however, do not appear in the film.

 

[Kevin Balch]

How fast was the presidential limo traveling just before it braked to a complete stop?

How far behind the presidential limo was the Secret Service follow up car at the time the presidential limo braked to a complete stop?

Luis Alvarez inferred from the Z-film a minimum presidential limo speed of 8 miles per hour circa frame 310. My understanding is that the secret service followup car tried to maintain a separation distance of 5 feet behind the presidential limo. That is certainly evident from the Hughes film of the motorcade proceeding up Houston Street.

Does anyone believe differently, and what are your reasons?

[Christian Toussay]

On 5/13/2024 at 3:02 PM, Kevin Balch said:

How fast was the presidential limo traveling just before it braked to a complete stop?

How far behind the presidential limo was the Secret Service follow up car at the time the presidential limo braked to a complete stop?

Luis Alvarez inferred from the Z-film a minimum presidential limo speed of 8 miles per hour circa frame 310. My understanding is that the secret service followup car tried to maintain a separation distance of 5 feet behind the presidential limo. That is certainly evident from the Hughes film of the motorcade proceeding up Houst, Clint Hill, suddenly realized he had a better chance of reaching on Street.

Does anyone believe differently, and what are your reasons?

 

...I am not sure it is really useful to break down the evidence that much.

I would think that the crucial fact here is that the only agent who was not supposed to be there, Clint Hill, realized he had a greater chance to reach JFK and protect him by running, and not by waiting for the Secret Service car to accelerate.

This spontaneous action tells a lot, for those with eyes to see...