Taking seriously Oswald's front steps alibi claim

[David Von Pein]

30 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

here is what I wrote in plain-English declarative sentences attempting to accurately represent you, and asked if it did, and you confirmed back to me this was accurately your view:

"I reject that Oswald could have assisted others in the assassination of JFK and been part of the assassination in a non-shooting role ... I believe the known evidence excludes any form of that as a reasonable or realistic possibility"

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand or comprehend, Greg. The text you've quoted in bold above contains things that I, of course, have endorsed for decades now. The key words you seem to be ignoring now are "known evidence". I.E., via the evidence that is known today, the above text you quoted is certainly what I endorse.

But....

IF, in the future (via that miracle that will likely never materialize), it is established beyond all possible doubt that Prayer Man is Lee Oswald, then my opinion about Oswald "assisting others in the assassination" would certainly change. As would my opinion about Oswald being a gunman in the JFK shooting. (Duh.)

I, myself, don't see any inconsistencies or "exasperating" elements in any of my previous posts.

Enjoy your rest.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by David Von Pein

[Greg Doudna]

The shirt Oswald was wearing on the morning of Nov 22, 1963 compared to the Prayer Man photo

The Warren Report claimed Oswald was wearing a brown shirt, CE 150, the morning of Nov 22, which is the shirt he was wearing when he was arrested in the theater. Oswald himself in interrogation denied he wore 150 the brown shirt that morning. He said he wore a light reddish button-down dress shirt and at the rooming house at 1 pm he had changed shirts, only at that time putting on 150 the brown arrest shirt for the first time that day. The light maroon-colored dress shirt Oswald said he was wearing the morning of Nov 22 was CE 151, which officers on Nov 22 found in a dresser drawer at his rooming house on Beckley in the exact position Oswald told his interrogators he had put his worn shirt when he changed into 150 the brown one.

Analysis of the witness testimonies establishes that Oswald, and not the Warren Commission, was correct on the identity of the shirt Oswald wore that morning: it was the light maroon colored CE 151. Although some previous had begun to make the argument for the reddish shirt rather than 150, this really became clear in 2016 with the obtaining of first-ever color photographs of CE 151 by Pat Speer.

Each of these witnesses below is describing Oswald’s shirt the morning of Nov 22, 1963 before Oswald changed clothes at 1 pm. Bear in mind that the brown 150 shirt is a dark shirt, whereas the light reddish or maroon 151 is a light colored button-down dress shirt with a designer label. (Compare the comment of James Jarman below.). Keep that in mind: light versus dark. 

o Linnie Mae Randle: “a solid color and light”.
o Texas School Book Depository supervisor Roy Truly: “a light colored shirt”.
o Texas School Book Depository employee James Jarman: “Ivy leagues, I believe”. [shirt worn by Oswald the morning of Nov 22]

o Dallas Police officer Marrion Baker: “some kind of white shirt... it was kind of dim in there that particular day"

o Officer Baker comparing what he saw Oswald wearing at the police station (CE 150) with what he remembered on Oswald in the second floor lunchroom: “He looked like he did not have the same on”.

o Housekeeper Earlene Roberts at Oswald's rooming house in Oak Cliff (FBI, Nov 27), “a light colored shirt”.
o FBI agent James Bookhout (5 CE 100): “[Oswald] stated that after arriving at his apartment he changed his shirt and trousers, because they were dirty. He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored, long sleeved shirt with a button-down collar and gray colored trousers.” 

o Secret Service agent Thomas Kelley (87 CD 375): “He said he went home, changed his trousers and shirt, put his shirt in a drawer. This was a red shirt, and he put it in his dirty clothes. He described his shirt as having a button down collar and of reddish color.” 

o Captain J.W. Fritz, Dallas Police Department, from handwritten notes of the interrogations of Oswald acquired by the Assassination Records Review Board in 1997 from an anonymous donor: “at Apt. changed shirt + tr. put in dirty clothes – longsleeve red sh + gray tr.” 

o Buell Wesley Frazier: “As Frazier recalls [on Thursday Nov 21, in the ride to Irving], Oswald was wearing a reddish shirt and a gray jacket, waist length” (FBI, Dec 1, 1963 [7 CD 294]) 

As this bears on the Prayer Man identification, it will be expected that Prayer Man, if he is Oswald, would be photographed wearing 151 underneath a gray flannel-like jacket, and that 151 would appear in the black-and-white images of Prayer Man as a light-colored shirt worn under a gray jacket, and some of the shirt should be visible at the neckline. The recent improved images of the Darnell film from the Sixth Floor Museum bring out agreement of the Prayer Man image with this expectation, with the neckline of Prayer Man showing "whitish" on either side inside the "U" of the neckline corresponding to the collars of the light-maroon 151 seen underneath the gray jacket, with the jacket zipped up mostly but not to the top and the 151 shirt not buttoned the top couple of buttons, the whitish of 151 on either side of darker skin color corresponding to Oswald's unnaturally darker skin color at the front of his neck.  

(Further background on CE 151 can be found in Pat Speer's chapter 4b, Threads of Evidence, https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4b-threads-of-evidence.) 

Edited 4 hours ago by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Sarah Stanton photo identification

In the photos from the Darnell film Sarah Stanton can be positively identified as the large figure to Buell Frazier's left (viewer's right), on the top landing of the TSBD front steps, situated to Frazier's left (viewer's right) where Frazier said she was, or more precisely, to the left of and a bit forward of Frazier on that top landing. Here I offer comments on certain details in the Darnell image. These comments assume ability to look for comparison at a roughly contemporary b/w photo of Sarah Stanton standing with her son for a good idea of what Sarah Stanton looked like and her height by comparison with her son's height of about 6'1" (that photo, here: http://www.prayer-man.com/sarah-stanton-crop/). (More information on Sarah Stanton here: http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/sarah-stanton/.)

1. An apparent space between a relatively too-narrow left arm (compared to the size/width of Sarah's upper arm in the b/w) and body is not space between an arm and a body, but shadow over a bigger-sized upper arm that is resting against the side, not apart from the body. The same effect can be seen in shadows around the upper arm of Sarah in the b/w.

2. Probably the true slant of the forearm of Sarah's left arm would have angled slightly down and to the viewer's left even though it is not visible, that expectation being based on analogy with the way Sarah's right arm hanging at her side at rest in the b/w slants at the elbow a little. That Sarah's left arm in Darnell does not appear to do so but appears to cut off at the elbow as if it is an amputated arm hanging down which is nonsensible, therefore it must be because of a shadow just below her left elbow.

3. The eyes of Sarah must be at/just above the shadow line and cannot be below the shadow line. Here I see differently from Stancak who has a detailed analysis making the case that although he agrees that is Sarah Stanton there, he interprets as Shelley standing in front of Sarah. I do not believe that is correct, but rather it is all Sarah and only Sarah there. In Stancak's interpretation Shelley's eyes standing in front of Sarah are below the shadow line. In my view that cannot be correct. The eyes must be at or above the shadow line, for this reason: the sun visor effect in which everyone will make use of a sun visor rather than choosing to look an inch below into direct sun. The roof over the front steps of the TSBD functioned as a sun visor for those standing on the top landing such as Frazier. On the steps below men can be seen with arms up shading their eyes from the sun trying to see forward, including the man one step down in front of Sarah. Also, the eyes position of Sarah is confirmed at the shadow line by being at the same height position as the top of Sarah's left ear area.

4. The left ear area of Sarah is an anchor point or basis for fixing the outline of where the rest of Sarah's face, head, and outline of hair should be expected and must be, even if the photo is not completely clear. Her eyes will be at or just above the shadow line with the sun not in her eyes. All that remains is to find the correspondences in the photo to where her face, hairline, and hair are expected to be. If they are not found as expected, by default it is to be interpreted as lost in shadow or from the limitations in quality of the photo. 

5. Above Sarah's eye level at the shadow line is a lighter area which appears to correspond to the flat, broad, middle of Sarah's forehead above her eyes in the b/w. I believe this lighter patch probably includes not only the forehead but also Sarah's gray hair above going to the top of Sarah's hair. That there seems to be no obviously visible clear line of demarcation I assume is to be understood as from the poor quality of the photo unable to clearly distinguish between light-colored (Sarah's forehead) and light-colored (Sarah's gray hair).

6. Sarah's left shoulder (viewer's right) has a dark spot defect between the shoulder and neck which can illusorily make Sarah's shoulder seem lower (and illusorily make one want to position Sarah's face and eyes lower). That is illusory and the rounded top of the shoulder continues straight to the expected position of at or immediately below Sarah's chin, by comparison of the shoulder line of Sarah in the b/w. Therefore the black or dark indent in the top left (viewer's right) shoulder line of Sarah is and must be shadow, and her shoulder line goes to the bottom of her chin consistent with the position of her eyes at the shadow line and her left ear area.

7. The massive width between the left and right shoulders is so striking and distinctive of Sarah. Even if Buell Frazier had not said Sarah was to his immediate left, can there be any TSBD employee that could be of that size other than Sarah? The dimensions of the figure correspond to the expected Sarah in this position, in agreement with Sarah's large body size and shape.

8. I have saved to last what some might raise as a consideration or objection: the height issue. For if Sarah's eyes are positioned above the shadow line, as they must be, the immediate reaction may be that this makes her too tall to be Sarah. (Tall from comparison to Buell Frazier of height 6'0-1/2". Here is my analysis on that. The key point is the height problem may be removed on the assumption Frazier is standing at the rear of the front landing whereas Sarah is standing forward on the front landing, plus the camera angle is to a certain extent looking "upward" and at an oblique angle between Sarah and Frazier. Sarah then is not simply to Frazier's left; she is more accurately described as somewhat forward and to Frazier's left, even though both are on the top landing. Since the photographs are poor at giving depth perception this may not be obvious to a viewer of the photo. But viewed in that perspective, a shorter person in front of a taller person, when photographed from "below" or lower in front of both, can make the shorter person in front look as tall as or even taller than the taller person behind, as optical illusion. A limited form of this effect I believe accounts for the perceived height problem issue.

With the b/w photo as baseline--Sarah's family member said that photo was taken in a park and they were both standing on the same ground--and the son as 6'1", my eyes estimate Sarah's height without hair (true height) as about 5'5" in that photo; with hair adding 1-1.5" maybe 5'6".

In the Darnell photo with Sarah's eyes at the shadow line as the fixed point, without consideration of perspective, and without considering how far forward or backward on the landing, by the present analysis of Sarah's eyes position Sarah would illusorily appear to be about 5'8" to the top of her hair, which is too tall, but I believe that effect can be removed in terms of the forward versus back part of the landing steps and the somewhat upward angle of the photographer from below with Sarah forward and in front of Frazier to a certain extent, adding a little to her apparent height that is illusory.

 

There is enough to know this is Sarah so the height issue is not really a matter of entering into whether it was her, but rather of interpreting or accounting for how the real Sarah appears the way she does in the photo. If photos had been taken straight and level with Sarah and Frazier on the landing without distortion from perspective, Sarah would appear a little less tall than the fixing of her eye position in Darnell appears to make her in comparison to Buell Frazier.

 

A positive photo identification of Sarah Stanton is of interest on its own terms, but it is of further interest in that some, such as Pat, have traditionally considered Prayer Man possibly to be Sarah Stanton, instead of Oswald. Since Darnell shows both Prayer Man and Sarah Stanton in the same photo as distinct individuals, that identification for Prayer Man is excluded.

Edited 3 hours ago by Greg Doudna