Frank Agbat Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 I think one can see a L. H. Oswald in Lee's handwriting under the scrawly A. J. Hidell. The L H. is obvious and the Oswald (Lee did put the O in a lower position) fits and there is a outline of the other letters inwhat at fist looks like a messy scribble.Also the usually read D F Drittal could very well be J F Drittal, scrub the PO and there's the J ( I also think the 8 is a 3 as it should be for Lee.) from Roberts topic "The Other Oswald['s]" : Fritz Dieter Jaeger? Fort Worth. Oswald did say in interview he got the pistol in Fort Worth. Perhaps a german member can make something more of it. Names of immigrants are often changed, misspelt etc. John, I agree -- the "A.J. Hidell" is notably sloppy, and probably is covering an L.H. Oswald underneath. I don't believe that the "O" in Oswald was lowercase, however. I think he descended slightly below the line with the capital O, and the "H" in Hidell is larger than most of his other capital letters to compensate for it. I'd also venture that the pen he used wasn't writing very well, as a portion of the capital "O" in "Oswald" appears to have not come out very well. It also looks like he might have gone over his letters twice when writing "Hidell". Nevertheless, I agree that it is quite possible that this is an overwrite. Good catch... Now... to understand what it all means?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 (edited) I think one can see a L. H. Oswald in Lee's handwriting under the scrawly A. J. Hidell. The L H. is obvious and the Oswald (Lee did put the O in a lower position) fits and there is a outline of the other letters inwhat at fist looks like a messy scribble. Also the usually read D F Drittal could very well be J F Drittal, scrub the PO and there's the J ( I also think the 8 is a 3 as it should be for Lee.) from Roberts topic "The Other Oswald['s]" : Fritz Dieter Jaeger? Fort Worth. Oswald did say in interview he got the pistol in Fort Worth. Perhaps a german member can make something more of it. Names of immigrants are often changed, misspelt etc. The more I look at this, the more oddities I see. The "d" in Hidell appears to be crossed, like a "t". Perhaps it is a hastily dotted "i" (which for a fast writer, can turn into a dash). The "Drittal" line, however, is even more troubling. I can see it as "J." more than "D." at the start of the line, with an outside shot at "O." However, I don't see "F." as the second initial. Perhaps it is "Fr." Or even "Fri."? As in J. Fr. Drittal... "Drittal" itself is odd, too. "Drittol", "Grittol" (The space between the vowel and the "l" at the end is large - perhaps there is a letter between -- as in Drittaul). The PO box number looks obviously tampered to me... 2415, 2915 (edit) I had someone who is not familiar with the case look at the PO Box line, and she thought it could also bee 2815... Edited November 18, 2006 by Frank Agbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 J. Fr.(au) (Frau : Wife or Mrs) Drittal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 J. Fr.(au) (Frau : Wife or Mrs) Drittal? Really going out on a limb here...I'm wondering if, Ana Drittel has a brother, or other male relative, recruited by an alphabet agency. I only risk thinking "out loud", here, because the Aug. 1966, NY Times obit describes widow Ana as "Russian." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I think your find is quite remarkable, Tom. Just thought I'd bring back some older speculations. Can't find a good copy of the coupon now. This is all just speculations that may or may not get somewhere. But the D maybe being J could be a thoughtless attemprt to hide something but needed to match an ID necessary for the order, ie assuming a Mrs John Drittal (Hurt) and justifying it with Frau. A bit like OH Lee ( what is your name (meaning surname)? Lee... Oswald..er...Harvey, middle name... and before correcting to Lee Harvey Oswald OH Lee is written...no big deal really), which is likely a mistake written according to the landladys ethnic background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Thanks, John. I got a lucky break. Jim Root's reply to my "John W. Hurt" post, the other day, was the catalyst for my looking a little harder. I am glad you resurrected this thread, and your guess is as good as mine, as the saying goes. Meet the family,,,,(I'd be grateful to anyone who can post the full text of these obits.) http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Ann...s&scoring=aDeaths $3.95 - New York Times - Jan 10, 1970 9:30 A.M. -Anna. beloved mother of Jean Koops, Maurice, Ana Hurt, and Sonya Levine. Devoted grandmother and . Servlees Sunday 12 noon Gramercy Park Chepti, ... Deaths; In Memoriam $3.95 - New York Times - Jan 10, 1973 Beloved wife of Barnet Levine Sister c ! Mrs. Jean KooPs, Mrs. Anni Driltelle , Hurt and Maurice Drittell. Services 3 P.M. I Thursday in The Church of the ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) J. Fr.(au) (Frau : Wife or Mrs) Drittal? Really going out on a limb here...I'm wondering if, Ana Drittel has a brother, or other male relative, recruited by an alphabet agency. I only risk thinking "out loud", here, because the Aug. 1966, NY Times obit describes widow Ana as "Russian." From John Simkin http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2310 We get an insight into this by the recorded conversation (52) that took place between Johnson and Hoover on 23rd November, 1963:J. Edgar Hoover: I just wanted to let you know of a development which I think is very important in connection with this case - this man in Dallas (Lee Harvey Oswald). We, of course, charged him with the murder of the President. The evidence that they have at the present time is not very, very strong. We have just discovered the place where the gun was purchased and the shipment of the gun from Chicago to Dallas, to a post office box in Dallas, to a man - no, to a woman by the name of "A. Hidell."... We had it flown up last night, and our laboratory here is making an examination of it. From CE 2973 Sources acquainted with some phases of Cuban activities in the New Orleans area advised on Nov 25 and Nov 26, 1963 , that they have no information regarding LEE HARVEY OSWALD, JACK LEON RUBY, JACK RUBENSTEIN, OH LEE, AJ HIDELL, ALEK JAMES HIDELL, ALEX J HIDELL, ANA HIDELL, or any variations of the HIDELL name. No sources advised they knew anyone whose last name was HIDELL. The HSCA also asked Col. Jones if the 112th had a file on ANA HIDELL. Now you're telling me you've found a trace of the name ANA DRITTEL???? Ana of course is not the common spelling, so I think you may be on to something.... She may have identified as Russian but that does not mean she wasn't German given the ever shifting borders, territories, annexures etc DRITELL= a third Oswald was smitten with the opera, Queen of Spades (which had occult and metaphysical themes). The number three has a great significance in the above opera Oswald - According to Marina & Lee had a "thing" about the number three The Queen of Spades name was "Anna" The character named Surin sums up at the card table, "I play cautiously, never get excited, never lose my head, and yet I go on losing!” which sounds a lot like Oswald... Anna, in her youth had turned to Count St Germain to help her out on a gambling debt. St Germain was a spy; a quirky combination of The Mentalist, Gotlieb and Bond. St Germain told her the secret of winning at the table... The Queen of Spades playing card indicates "opening oneself up to injury or downfall". The card was known in France back when as "Pallas" Pallas, in Greek mythology was related to Athena who kills him accidently, then assumes his name becoming Pallas Athena... and this all takes place near a body of water called "Triton" - there's that three again (and can anyone say "Trinity River"?) See what happens when I start thinking out loud? Edited February 19, 2010 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Thanks, John. I got a lucky break. Jim Root's reply to my "John W. Hurt" post, the other day, was the catalyst for my looking a little harder.I am glad you resurrected this thread, and your guess is as good as mine, as the saying goes. Meet the family,,,,(I'd be grateful to anyone who can post the full text of these obits.) http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Ann...s&scoring=aDeaths $3.95 - New York Times - Jan 10, 1970 9:30 A.M. -Anna. beloved mother of Jean Koops, Maurice, Ana Hurt, and Sonya Levine. Devoted grandmother and . Servlees Sunday 12 noon Gramercy Park Chepti, ... Deaths; In Memoriam $3.95 - New York Times - Jan 10, 1973 Beloved wife of Barnet Levine Sister c ! Mrs. Jean KooPs, Mrs. Anni Driltelle , Hurt and Maurice Drittell. Services 3 P.M. I Thursday in The Church of the ... Anni Driltelle , Hurt and Maurice Drittell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 Anna DRITTELL Birth Date: 10 Jun 1882 Death Date: Jan 1970 Social Security Number: 546-80-5126 State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: California Death Residence Localities ZIP Code: 10038 Localities: New York, New York, New York Peck Slip, New York, New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) 1920 Census image, closeup of Ely Drittel family US census entry, names of siblings good match with 1973 NY Times obit, "Ana" is Anna, and "Maurice" is Morris. Full census image lists family birthplaces as "Russis Poland." DRITTEL, ELY (1920 U.S. Census) NEW YORK , KINGS, BROOKLYN Age: 45, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: RUSS Series: T625 Roll: 1165 Page: 182 Edited February 20, 2010 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 1912 Drittel family ship's manifest from Ellis Island archives. Begins with left side of first of two pages, on line 14. Four images, in sequence, L to R. Relevant line in second image has the word "Hebrew" visisble. I cannot read most of the handwritten entries. I inclued the line above line 14 in images 2, 3, and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) .....(image)I think one can see a L. H. Oswald in Lee's handwriting under the scrawly A. J. Hidell Also the usually read D F Drittal could very well be J F Drittal, scrub the PO and there's the J ( I also think the 8 is a 3 as it should be for Lee.) from Roberts topic "The Other Oswald['s]" : Fritz Dieter Jaeger? Dieter apparently means something like 'peoples army' Is this an attempt to link the rifle which was clearly ordered by a A J Hidell to a revolver that was possibly ordered by a L. H. Oswald? I know it's a bit far out and speculative, but perhaps a german speaker could make something more of it? First reported as "D E" Drittal.... Warren Commission, Volume XXVI: CE 3088 - FBI report dated ...appeared to be D. E. DRITTAL. Also written in Ink on the order form was an order for one box of ammunition and one holster, but a line was drawn through ... Warren Commission, Volume XXVI: CE 3088 - FBI report dated ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...H26_CE_3088.pdf http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=90 Link to image of FBI report page.: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/servlet/...tation=portrait Edited February 20, 2010 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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