The Southern Half of Dealey Plaza

[Maarten Coumans]

Hi,

Question. A bullet coming from the left of Kennedy would imply a shooter from South of Elm, right?

Could those 2 lumps on top of Kennedy's right shoulder be bullets? Entering near the spine?

If so, they must have come from the left, south. Since Kennedy's body didn't change direction as much as his head.

There must have been a wound because of the amound of blood on his shirt, located on the back of his right shoulder. And the smutches a bit further on his shoulder are exactly the same as in the autopsy foto.

Anyone picked on that in the past. Cannot find anything about it.

Maarten

[Jack White]

Robin, that's great. Is that a film frame from the man filming in front of Cancellare? What's his name and are more frames available and can you tell where to get more?

John...it is from the Atkins movie.

Jack

Some of the players identified in Atkins.

Jack

Hi Jack, and all interested.

I have the DVD, and watched it a couple of times. And every time these frames came up, I wondered wheather the pink and black spots surrounding the family Newmann could be parts of Kennedy's brain sprayed after Z313?

This I wonder, because a couple of frames later, you can see on his face, what I think to be the same stuff (brain...). Quite a distance to travel, from the middle of the road to the grass (on the down-side).

Strange as well, The family Newmann is clearly visible standing before Kennedy's head exploded in Muchmore film. But the bullet would have missed him "by a mile". Either from TSBD, DAL-TEX, grassy knoll could a bullet come to give him the need to dive for cover, just like Anthony Summers on the other side of Elm. He is sitting in Jack's picture (makes me think of Arnold's story).

Could this have anything to do with it:

This is done with photoshop (don't tell). I'm not sure how. I could only save the pic to server, and then the workstation needed a reinstall. Bommer. This frame is not from the digitized Zapruder film. (An Image Of..)

A couple of frames later you can see Anthony Summers diving to the ground. Altgens unmoved. That makes that diagonal, extra intersting I think. Anyone additional info about this?

That brings me back to the reason for this post. In the Zapruder Film short after Z313 I see a pink blob that could be tissue (close to Altgens). According to several maps the place of Harper-fragment, others place that much closer to the Tripple Underpass. Anyone a definate answer?

The reason is this. If that blob is from Kennedy's body, how did it get there? Not from the shot fired for Z313, because the accelleration (physics) would destroy it totally. Yet it is visible, and to my best judgement NOT MOVING. Anyone got idea what it is (Harper fragment???), and how it got there?

Because if Harper is further, then a diagonal bullet as described above could set that skull-fragment off in that direction. And still make Summers and The Newmann's duck for cover.

A bullet in the opposite direction, leads me back in the direction of those two trucks, on Main. And could account for additional brainmatter covering the area around the Newmann family (see above). And a life-threatning situation, in addition to the scene just in front of his eyes. And a bullet (fragment) should land north of Elm, near the Newmann's. Any news on that?

Gr. Maarten

Hi, Maarten...interesting posting, but I do not understand the graphic.

can you post the original image before the photoshopping?

Thanks.

Jack

[John Dolva]

Hi Maarten. front and left is largely south of Elm for Kennedy's head at the time of z313. Because of speed of bullet and time of registry of image on film, catching a bullet with a normal camera would be impossible( something in the order of many hundreds of frames per second+ would be needed. The aftermath as trail etc more possible.

Could you post the unenhanced image please?

[Maarten Coumans]

Hi,

Here is the capture from JFK by Stone, unaltered. Only converted to Jpeg.

I'm well aware of the slim chances of catching a bullet on film. 18.3 frames per second. Bullet trvelling at what? 300 - 600 meter per second. Makes 16 meters to 32 meters per frame, in this exampe.

But some things work in my and your favour. 18.3 fr/sec. means a shorter exposure-time for the film, less than 1/18.3 of a second because of shutter movement , and transport of the film.

In addition to that, some of the shooters may have used a silencer.

And from what I have been told, a firearm makes noises because of, the explosive powder burn, the bullet breaking the sound-barrier twice. Going faster, and slowing down again.

Now I believe a silencer would reduce speed as well, to prevent the sonic boom (small), would be very compromising to the shooter (why the silencer?). Those bullets, especially over longer distance, have the best chance of being filmed. I would not be the first to misstake a decolouration/scratch/dirt/greace/crack in the film for something else. But since A lot of bullets are fired, the chances of not catching a bullet, or its trail on film is right next to zero.

Remember the Music album "...CUT...." by the Dutch band Golden Earring in '82,where a Jack Of Diamonds is shot in half with a bullet, from the side? Photo was taken by hand, according to photographer. Of course a controlled situation. But still an argument in my favour, I think.

So herefore we disagree John. I wonder who told you " in the order of many hunderds of frames/second would be needed". Odd. How fast do your bullets travel in '63?

Hope you read this soon.

Gr. Maarten

[John Dolva]

You could be right, I don't know, there was a discussion on it some time ago on the forum I ran across in a search . Someone did a bunch of calculations etc. The US army mil site has some photos at 1200 fps. They're all side on to trajectory though. I'd imagine it'd be different for a shot travelling towards or away from camera.

In your first photo here I think you were talking of the Newmans in the Atkins film, and posted a image of your results? Can you post a copy of the images you used to get that?

[Maarten Coumans]

To John,

I do not understand your Question. The changes have been made with PhotoshopCS I think. I cannot tell you what button(s) I used. But it looked cool, 3D effect, and illustrated my point. So I saved it for later use, now. Gave the workstation a new install. End.

Well in regard to military testing.

Garrisson said: "Theoretic physics can prove that an elephant can hang of a cliff, with his tai tied to a Daisy. But use your eyes, your common sence." In WW2 fighters fired their cannons, and every once in a while a trace-bullet with fosfor was fired (looks good, especially at night.). This to give a better aim, if bullets went "your" fast it would serve no purpose, because the eyes cannot follow. If bullets would fly even 10 times "my" speed, the shooters shoulder would snap, because the force would increase 100 fould (check hospitals for broken/lost shoulders-> shooters. Franco in the Spanish revolution did that before WW2, but then looking for bruised shoulders). Need I continue...... who is killing who?

Around the family Newmann you can clearly see pink "stuff", shows up in 2 camera's. I did not do any alterations, or process on any of those frames (yet). But the colour, and texture, gave me enough to keep digging. A pink blob coming into view at Z313. Harper-fragment? The policeman with pieces all over him, left behind the limo.

In Jack's picture.

If you can pictureyourself the Newmann's standing on the curb. And Jack's sitting Man (Anthony Summers) sitting on the other side of Elm, like he is at a gynacologist, back on his feet. A little closer to the tripple underpass, since he jumps toward the TSBD in the Zapruder film, and ends sitting as above, as he gets out of the picture.

Now draw a line between those 2 and set Kennedy in between at approx Z327. Diagonal crossing Elm.

Traces one way back to about the 2nd Rademacher casing, and could cause Harper-fragment to land so far up Elm. The other way traces back to approx William Plumplee drew a red line from the underpass. And could cause the pink stuff around the Newmann family, if Z313 didn't do it .... Not sure on this. With an uncertain factor in Jackie's movements changing Kennedy's behaviour, and the accellerating limo distorting things. I guess Rademacher 2nd casing location has my first choice for origin, because Kennedy's movements.

Hope I answered your question, John. If not, could you be more specific.

Maarten

[John Dolva]

What artefacts would creep into videocapping zfilm sequences from the jfk film? Are the frames trustworthy? The format or something may create intermediary frames. Interestingly it seems every third frame is dropped for part of it.

With regards to the request to post image:

What I'm talking about is the particular image in which you see the possible brain matter on the lawn. Could you post it before photoshopping please?

I've got no problems with being wrong about whether a bullet can be seen in the z film. It would be worthwhile to have a definite statement about it. I can't make one. I do think a trail is very possible though.

Edited July 23, 2006 by John Dolva

[Maarten Coumans]

To John,

I have bumbed my nose many a times.

With regard to the possible bullet crossing before Jackie's eyes. I have looked at differend copies of the film, and the only version it does not show up, is in "An image of...".

But in that movie (see picture) you can in the Wide version clearly see the pink blob on the lawn slide into view at Z313. Between Altgens, and Moorman. Closer to Altgens. As I follow the blob pass along, it stays even with the grass. According to me. This is Z313 only converted to Jpeg. In Z315 it is clearer visible, by then it can be located above the driver in the picture.

Looking at the size it could be the Harper fragment, glistering in the sun. According to http://www.paulseaton.com/jfk/frags/bone_frags.htm ,Z313 shows the Harper fragment being launched. spinning, and leaving trail, clearly visible. Since both can be seen in one frame, they cannot be the same. One or the other. My point for posting this one.

I would not make this much noise, if it was the frame allone. The frame started it, the rest fits nicely. Dodging people. I will take some capture from different versions that are on various DVD's, only converted to Jpeg. If I find one not showing that crossing before Jackie, I will mention that too.

Enough for now.

I'm looking forward to have good discussion about this subject.

Maarten

Edited July 29, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Maarten Coumans]

Hi,

I have been working with some X-rays. Interesting especially if you turn them negative. Lots of small spots.

I have desperately trying to puzzle the Harper fragment by myself. And found some interesting things along the way. About foto's not matching with X-ray. This is what I found in this picture:

The red circles refer to some kind of tape, holding the head together.The first piece of tape leaves a dhadow on the skull at the end. The second circle could well hide a fracture-line. The third and fourth red circle are two fieces of plastic office tape that has torn diagonally. I suppose while the object (head) was moved to the left. ripping the tape, standing up in the fourh red circle. I belive this to be the right ear, and possibly taped to his forehead. The green one is the skin that is always clearly visible over the right temple, till behind the ear. With a small stretch, behind the right ear. A crater below and above. I think that is just loose skin, only attached to the face. In Autopsy clearly has a fold and rimples, and distortion of the image from bone below.

I like fo fit the Harper-fragment underneath that piece if skin, I referred to in the green circle. For that the gap between face and ear is too big. But there is no need for those dimentions to have anything to do with Kennedy's head. So these pieces could have drifted or pushed apart. The tape was torn....!

Additional reasons for that position, that small piece of bone missing above the right eye. And to the left, in and under the third red circle fit with the two markings on the other side. In addition to it's curve

Looks to me that the face was collapsed from his head, looking at the x-ray.

Tomorrow or something I will post a composite to illustrate.

I think it is important to find out where the Harper-fragment came from, and how it ended where it was found.

Just as well migh provide extra info to check for bullet(-paths) in the Z film. Interesting things are to be seen inside the limo after Z313. Z324 and futher. And 354, 355.

I think I understand by what you mean, John , by it changes every 3 frames. It occured to me, while I was watching "An Image of", that the print changed every 3 frames. From nice, soft, and without much dirt, to 2 sharp, with lots of spickles. Looks like a composite of 3 copies. Bommer. Is this what you were referring to earlier?

Maarten

Edited July 25, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[John Dolva]

Hi Maarten. I'll tell you what I think. But I'll try to stick to things that are readily checked on internet sites that go into what xrays are and what roentengrams can and cannot show.

I don't think tape can be visible. Unless it has some particularly dense (or x-optically opaque material in it.) Similarly soft body tissues such as skin. Unless there is a lot of it, and then it tends to leave shadows or hints of its presence. So, in my understanding, because what you see on the roentengrams as various white things is a kind of 'shadow' of whatever blocks the light. That which is most resistant to xrays passing through will be whitest. What that means is that where you have two bones overlapping the image will tend to be whiter.

The JFK frames are interesting. I don't know why every third frame is ommitted. Maybe it's budget. Maybe (and I find it hard to believe) hecouldn't afford all of them? Maybe he didn't consider it important and so he looked on it as an irrelevant and acceptable cost cutting thing?

I don'tknow how the funny frames are created. It might be in the creation of the film on DVD format, or it might be by the capture process. Or something else.

[Maarten Coumans]

John,

I am not new to X-rays, but not professional. So I can only tell you what I see before me.

You make a good point. Plastic tape or skin should not show up un the X-ray. The skin perhaps highlights, and only shows at folds (denser). Those parts are directly in contact with the X-ray plate, with the machine on the other side.

That is the only excuse I can think of for the showing up.

For the shadow I described earlier in Red 1, makes no sense, since x-rays work differently from normal foto.

But it is a description. If I knew the answer, I'd be ....... not posting here. Certainly not pointing to it. Could be an exit wound, and the edges show up extra dark. Here is a negative without circles.

Not sure. Because of the line going up, with a constant colour, what I find suspicious.

The thing I see in Red 3 and 4 show a pattern that I came across the most commonly when I was using cellotape under tension, and it had a small tear on the side. Red 3 shows clearly that. Including the wringling back, after being stretched.(Try it at home!) With the other side in Red4. Meant to keep it together. Just like the other white stuff. I cannot determin the contents, or propertiessince. I was not there. I can only describe what I see, and take it from there. I do not have the time, energy or money to go to a lab and check for all post-mortum appliences, including mortuary's, and have them x-rayed. And even then the result is questionable, debatable and igneorable. Lab tests concluded LHO did not fire a firearm. Yet we still read he killed 2 people, with firearms.

If this is one picture, and it is genuine. They would have to been able to recover, and puzzle the backside together for these pics. Unsuitable for normal pics. And that other frontal pictures are misleading because it looks like there is bone and brain in the right temple. While in fact there is not(-hing)....... mmmmmm.

I came across an X-ray, alledged to be found by the Secret Service in the Limo. Approx 10 cm in size.

I think it fits nicely over the crater above and behind the right ear.

Any thoughts on that?

Maarten

Edited July 30, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Maarten Coumans]

About the digitized Z-film.

I have read about it, that there had been a closed door talk. And as a result was a agreed to a version. Meaning in CIA language. Not very encriminating. A kind of compromise.

Something to do with money. Which is bogus of course. The real one would be worth it's weight in ....

And could be sold for any amound ...... But would probably blow the case wide open. So compromise.

I can see no reason why it would be more expensive to digitize 1 film (real original), than digitize 3 and mix them up. Like I said Bogus.

The dropping of frames every 3 frames happens in JFK the same as in "An image of". So I assume they agreed on that one, since that one is already out.

But that would compromize the Z-film's digitized version. Keeping the guessing game alive. Bommer.

Any ideas John or anybody?

Maarten

Edited July 29, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Maarten Coumans]

These capture pictures come from Groden DVD Assassination films.

Maarten

[Maarten Coumans]

Especially to John Dolva,

I found something interesting in an autopsy from the left side of the face of Kennedy.

I suspect the top red circle to be a piece of skull, that is sticking through the scalp.

The bottom red circle surrounds a suspicious piece. It seems to me longer than his hair, and more smooth.

I consider it to be a piece to hold the head together for a better picture. It curls in a simular fashion as I pointed out in the autopsy X-rays (I described it as office-tape ). I think you can see it here in a normal foto.

The ear is not where it should be(should be closer to front of the face). I think he is having a hair-piece on his hairline.

Maarten

Edited September 17, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Nick Bartetzko]

Especially to John Dolva,

I found something interesting in an autopsy from the left side of the face of Kennedy.

I suspect the top red circle to be a piece of skull, that is sticking through the scalp.

The bottom red circle surrounds a suspicious piece. It seems to me longer than his hair, and more smooth.

I consider it to be a piece to hold the head together for a better picture. It curls in a simular fashion as I pointed out in the autopsy X-rays (I described it as office-tape ). I think you can see it here in a normal foto.

The ear is not where it should be(should be closer to front of the face). I think he is having a hair-piece on his hairline.

Maarten

Maarten

That is an interesting comment about the hairpiece. Looking at the photo, there appears to be an irregular, vertical, zigzag pattern in the hair about 1 inch to the right of the ear. There are also a series of at least three 1-1 1/2 inch sections of straight hair visible along the forehead hairline. Somewhat shaped like an octagon. Unusual, but probably explained as a lighting anomaly.

Nick