Who Instigated the Dallas Trip, and When?

[Mark Stapleton]

In her book Kennedy & Johnson (1968), Evelyn Lincoln has this to say about the trip to Texas. She says that JFK was very reluctant to go on this trip: “Advance reports from our own staff and from many other people gave us cause to worry about the tense climate in Texas – and, most especially, in Dallas. Dallas was removed and then put back on the planned itinerary several times. Our own advance man urged that the motorcade not take the route through the underpass and past the Book Depository, but he was overruled.” She adds that Johnson was insistent that JFK went on the trip.

Thanks John. I knew I'd read somewhere of JFK wavering and LBJ's subsequent insistence and (perhaps) reassurance. I'm not going nuts, after all.

Question for all: Who might have overruled the Advance Man? And who is the mysterious SA Glen Bennett, assigned to the WH detail on November 10, who lied to the HSCA about not being on the Miami trip and whose contemporaneous notes buttressed the notion that JFK was hit from behind?:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/02-VP.html

Anyway, back to the main theme of this critical thread. Do we have consensus that September was the month that the trip was extended to include November 22? The reason I ask is that if Cliff Carter is the only source then I remain skeptical. This is the man who was a longtime LBJ aide and who called Waggoner Carr, Jesse Curry and Henry Wade (3 times) on the night of the assassination to reinforce the lone nut scenario, adding that any conspiracy talk could be a great threat to America's security. I don't trust his statements at all.

The other thing which is critical to this thread is establishing LBJ's exact movements from the October 4 argument with Governor Connally up to the assassination. We have the Murchison party on November 21 but that's hotly disputed and its the rest of that 7 weeks that is of major importance, IMO. That's a critical period and it seems hard to pin down with certainty. Apparently he was 'ranching' it. The Dallek bio I have doesn't have anything. Maybe the voluminous Caro bio or Larry can tell us more. Why don't the official bios reveal more? Did he need 7 weeks at the ranch to plan this two day extravaganza? btw, this is pure speculation but I believe the reason LBJ was so annoyed with JBC at not being told about the October 4 meeting till afterwards was because he didn't want JBC and JFK to inadvertently change the delicate arrangements he was putting in place.

Dawn, did you actually post that message you were given about DNC man Jack Puterbaugh? If so, which thread is it on--sounds interesting.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Mark Stapleton

[Jack White]

Just thinking outloud.....LBJ strikes me as capable of anything. I always thought it strange he wanted to be 'sworn' in as President after the assassination, when he was automatically President and didn't need to be sworn in...but it could have been for the public...or to make damn sure he couldn't be denied. It seems strange if JC was involved in the plans that he later would stick to the facts about the bullets different from the WC party line...but, then again, one can have a change of heart after near death experience. Lastly, if he were in the know I find it unlikely he would have placed himself so close to the target. Look where LBJ was!

Some have speculated that it was a stalling tactic to give time

to manipulate the casket and body, perhaps even transferring

it to another plane via a body bag.

On the other hand, it may have been just to "rub it in" to the

Kennedy crowd that he had pulled it off.

Jack

[Ron Ecker]

if he were in the know I find it unlikely he would have placed himself so close to the target. Look where LBJ was!

It could have been Connally's understanding that the shooting would take place at the Trade Mart. Hence his expression of surprise and uncertainty of group survival when the shooting started in Dealey Plaza.

[Ashton Gray]

if he were in the know I find it unlikely he would have placed himself so close to the target. Look where LBJ was!

It could have been Connally's understanding that the shooting would take place at the Trade Mart. Hence his expression of surprise and uncertainty of group survival when the shooting started in Dealey Plaza.

And all this time, Ron, I thought you were just another pretty face.

I think you very well may be right.

On part of this subject: this whole "trade mart" thing pops up everywhere, and it's so consistent with the CIA twosies psy-op. I've just received a focused text export from a friend who has started timelining this stuff since I uploaded the Filemaker file, and in this short time she's hit on something related to Oswald's handing out leaflets in front of Clay Shaw's New Orleans Trade Mart that just has me...

It's a stunner. I'm going to try to get it condensed and cleaned up for the forum and post it as a separate topic soon.

Ashton

[Ashton Gray]

22 October 1962

John F. Kennedy speaks to the nation announcing the presence of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg is called to Washington D.C. as a consultant on the crisis. He serves as an intermediary between a crisis work group at RAND and the Pentagon, being flown back and forth between D.C. and Santa Monica in a military plane. Ellsberg is working directly with the Executive Committee of the National Security Council (ExComm).

27 October 1962

John F. Kennedy decides to quietly accede to Kruschev's demands to have American Jupiter missiles removed from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet missiles being removed from Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg, at the Pentagon, is absolutely outraged. This completely contravenes the dictates of Ellsberg's Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) theory of international relations.

30 October 1962

Kerry Thornley becomes a member of the Hotel, Motel, and Restaurant Employees Union [known today as the Hotel and Restaurant Employees and Bartenders' Union International] in New Orleans. Its office is in the Newman Building at 544 Camp Street [which also has an address of 531 Lafayette Street].

10 December 1962

A top-secret CIA program called QK/ENCHANT has been started: "J. Monroe SULLIVAN, #280207, was granted a covert security approval on 10 December 1962 so that he could be used in Project QK/ENCHANT. SHAW has #402897-A" [NOTE: From a CIA document summarizing Clay Shaw's contacts with CIA.]

1 c. February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine gets the first of two phone calls from Everett Glover concerning a get-together at his home on 22 February 1963.

13 February 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald attend a dinner party at the home of George De Mohrenschildt.

22 February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine meets George De Mohrenschildt, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Marina Oswald at "a gathering of friends" at the home of Everett Glover. Also attending are two "roommates" of Glover: "Dirk" or "Volkmar Schmidt" and "Richard Pierce."

2 March 1963

Lee and Marina Oswald move to 214 Neely Street in Dallas, Texas.

9-10 March 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald purportedly takes photos of the home of General Edwin Walker.

11 March 1963

The Militant, a prominent left-wing publication, publishes a letter signed "L.H.," believed to have been written by Lee Harvey Oswald.

12 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald, for the first time, at the new apartment. On the same day, Lee Harvey Oswald orders a rifle and revolver from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago, Illinois.

20 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald at the Neely Street house again. This is the same day the rifle and revolver are shipped to Lee Harvey Oswald.

31 March 1963

Photos of Lee Harvey Oswald are taken with him holding weapons and a newspaper.

1 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald is "fired" by Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

2 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald go to the home of Ruth Hyde Paine purportedly for a dinner. Also present is Ruth's estranged husband, Michael Paine.

5 April 1963

A photo of Lee Harvey Oswald with weapons is signed on the back with this date and "To my friend George from Lee Oswald." The handwriting is attributed later to Lee Harvey Oswald. Additional unattributed writing says: "Copyright Geo do [sic] M" and the words, in Russian: "Hunter of fascists, ha-ha-ha!"

6 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald's last work day at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

8 April 1963

There is a flight plan of this date for a flight from New Orleans piloted by David Ferrie. Passengers listed are Hidell (an alias for Lee Harvey Oswald), Lambert (an alias for Clay Shaw) and Diaz. The destination is Garland, Texas.

20 April 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine has a "picnic" with Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald at a park near the Oswald's Neely Street apartment.

23 April 1963

Lyndon Johnson is in Dallas for the Second Annual NASA Manned Space Flight Conference. He makes an announcement about some kind of plan for John F. Kennedy to visit Dallas.

24 April 1963

The Dallas Times Herald is headlined: "LBJ sees Kennedy Dallas Visit—One Day Texas Tour Eyed." Ruth Hyde Paine comes to the Oswald's Neely Street residence at 10:00 a.m. Lee Harvey Oswald is completely packed for a trip to New Orleans, as are most of the contents of the apartment. Ruth Hyde Paine drives Oswald to the bus station.

Ashton Gray

[Ron Ecker]

If Connally had foreknowledge of an assassination in Dallas, he had to be assured that it would not take place while he and his wife were in the same car with JFK. And that meant telling him it would occur at the Trade Mart.

Connally's insistence that the luncheon take place at the Trade Mart thus had nothing to do with the resulting motorcade route, which to Connally's mind was immaterial. The Trade Mart had to be chosen, Connally thought, because as an assassination site it was less secure than the alternate site.

Connally could have been lied to not because he was also an intended target, but because it was the only way to get him into that car as protocol dictated. But if we ask who would have wanted him dead along with JFK, we must ask who would have benefited, and only one person would have obviously benefited from both deaths. Also, getting rid of Connally, because he knew too much about LBJ, would have the additional benefit of sending a message to Cliff Carter, who knew too much too.

All this of course would not have been lost on Connally, who survived the attempt on his life. What was his reason for rejecting the SBT when he could have just kept quiet about it, since he was officially accepting the WC's conclusion that LHO acted alone? The rejection didn't make any sense, as the WC's conclusion rested upon the SBT. The rejection of the SBT had to be Connally's way of saying there was a conspiracy, which was the only way he could get back at those who had him shot. He was saying, "There was a conspiracy, but that’s all I can say because I was one of the conspirators."

Also, I recall that Nellie Connally in her book says that when John became the Secretary of the Treasury under Nixon, he conducted his own private investigation into the assassination. That doesn't make any sense either, unless Connally was trying to find something to confirm his suspicion that he had been an intended target too. I would have done the same thing if they had shot me.

As for LBJ, wanting Connally dead too might make more sense of the question LBJ posed to Hoover: "How did it happen they hit Connally?" On the face of it it's a stupid question, the obvious answer being that Connally was shot by accident in the crossfire. But the question makes sense if what LBJ was really asking was, "That bastard Connally didn't die. What am I going to say to him?"

And Hoover's seemingly nonsensical answer (that Connally was accidentally shot from the front, nonsensical because it was contrary to the official story of a lone gunman) makes sense if Hoover meant, "Here’s about all that you can privately tell him."

Edited July 27, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[Dawn Meredith]

if he were in the know I find it unlikely he would have placed himself so close to the target. Look where LBJ was!

It could have been Connally's understanding that the shooting would take place at the Trade Mart. Hence his expression of surprise and uncertainty of group survival when the shooting started in Dealey Plaza.

Very interesting you should mention that. I have repeatedly heard murmurs of 'a back-up plan' to kill JFK at teh Trad Mart, had the Plaza not worked out....but with little real information about this. If as you speculate, Connally was told that was the place, perhaps there wasn't such a plan, only the rumour of the plan to set up some of the cast and characters in the Drama to unfold - and divert attention from the real shooting gallery. Does anyone have anything more specific on any of this? If true, Connally must have really felt done-dirt by whoever told him things would be otherwise - if that was the scenario. Would fit in with many things....I believe almost all the bit players were mis-directed as to what exactly was about to go on. Many of those who felt they were 'in the fold' found later they were expendable and to be hung out to die or dry...Tippit, Oswald, - later DeMorhrenshildt, Ruby perhaps, Shaw, Ferrie...a very much longer list. Good tradecraft. Ugly coup d'etat.

Peter, Ron, Ashton (etc)

There was also a back up plan for Austin, my wonderful home for now 16 years!

An aside here, I began uncovering extreme corruption in the legal system here in Austin. Between 1992 and cumminating in 1995, I had uncovered enough to write 10 books on one law firm who shall remain- (for now)-unnamed. At the time I was speaking daily with pal Richard Bartholomew who was dying to tell me just HOW corrupt Austin is, essentially all of his and J Harrison's "secrets" re the finger print, Barr looking for a publisher, the trial of Malcolm Wallace here in Austin, where he was convicted of murdering John Kinsner but received a SUSPENDED sentence. (no jail time). Of course I would later meet J on 11/21/97 and learn all these secrets. And far much more. (J kept files on everyone, including me I later learned after he died).

They call it "buba justice" here in Tx. And if you have the "right" attorney you can literally get away with cold blooded murder. Wallace would go on to kill many more at LBJ's behest (allegedly) . Did he fire at JFK? I believe he did. But he was far from alone.

Those unfamiliar with Malcolm Wallace can just google The Estes documents or the name Mac Wallace or

Glen Sample's website via google Men on the Sixth Floor. Of course I highly recomment reading Glenn's book of the same name and Barr's book. (Blood Money and Power: How LBJ Killed JFK). To me it is not an either/ or: LBJ could well have had JFK assassinated, with the CIA running the entire show.

The Estes Documents are letters between Atty Doug Caddy and AG Trott on behalf of Billie sol Estes, in 1984. VERY interesting letters. Must reads, imho.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

22 October 1962

John F. Kennedy speaks to the nation announcing the presence of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg is called to Washington D.C. as a consultant on the crisis. He serves as an intermediary between a crisis work group at RAND and the Pentagon, being flown back and forth between D.C. and Santa Monica in a military plane. Ellsberg is working directly with the Executive Committee of the National Security Council (ExComm).

27 October 1962

John F. Kennedy decides to quietly accede to Kruschev's demands to have American Jupiter missiles removed from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet missiles being removed from Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg, at the Pentagon, is absolutely outraged. This completely contravenes the dictates of Ellsberg's Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) theory of international relations.

30 October 1962

Kerry Thornley becomes a member of the Hotel, Motel, and Restaurant Employees Union [known today as the Hotel and Restaurant Employees and Bartenders' Union International] in New Orleans. Its office is in the Newman Building at 544 Camp Street [which also has an address of 531 Lafayette Street].

10 December 1962

A top-secret CIA program called QK/ENCHANT has been started: "J. Monroe SULLIVAN, #280207, was granted a covert security approval on 10 December 1962 so that he could be used in Project QK/ENCHANT. SHAW has #402897-A" [NOTE: From a CIA document summarizing Clay Shaw's contacts with CIA.]

1 c. February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine gets the first of two phone calls from Everett Glover concerning a get-together at his home on 22 February 1963.

13 February 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald attend a dinner party at the home of George De Mohrenschildt.

22 February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine meets George De Mohrenschildt, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Marina Oswald at "a gathering of friends" at the home of Everett Glover. Also attending are two "roommates" of Glover: "Dirk" or "Volkmar Schmidt" and "Richard Pierce."

2 March 1963

Lee and Marina Oswald move to 214 Neely Street in Dallas, Texas.

9-10 March 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald purportedly takes photos of the home of General Edwin Walker.

11 March 1963

The Militant, a prominent left-wing publication, publishes a letter signed "L.H.," believed to have been written by Lee Harvey Oswald.

12 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald, for the first time, at the new apartment. On the same day, Lee Harvey Oswald orders a rifle and revolver from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago, Illinois.

20 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald at the Neely Street house again. This is the same day the rifle and revolver are shipped to Lee Harvey Oswald.

31 March 1963

Photos of Lee Harvey Oswald are taken with him holding weapons and a newspaper.

1 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald is "fired" by Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

2 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald go to the home of Ruth Hyde Paine purportedly for a dinner. Also present is Ruth's estranged husband, Michael Paine.

5 April 1963

A photo of Lee Harvey Oswald with weapons is signed on the back with this date and "To my friend George from Lee Oswald." The handwriting is attributed later to Lee Harvey Oswald. Additional unattributed writing says: "Copyright Geo do [sic] M" and the words, in Russian: "Hunter of fascists, ha-ha-ha!"

6 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald's last work day at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

8 April 1963

There is a flight plan of this date for a flight from New Orleans piloted by David Ferrie. Passengers listed are Hidell (an alias for Lee Harvey Oswald), Lambert (an alias for Clay Shaw) and Diaz. The destination is Garland, Texas.

20 April 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine has a "picnic" with Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald at a park near the Oswald's Neely Street apartment.

23 April 1963

Lyndon Johnson is in Dallas for the Second Annual NASA Manned Space Flight Conference. He makes an announcement about some kind of plan for John F. Kennedy to visit Dallas.

24 April 1963

The Dallas Times Herald is headlined: "LBJ sees Kennedy Dallas Visit—One Day Texas Tour Eyed." Ruth Hyde Paine comes to the Oswald's Neely Street residence at 10:00 a.m. Lee Harvey Oswald is completely packed for a trip to New Orleans, as are most of the contents of the apartment. Ruth Hyde Paine drives Oswald to the bus station.

Ashton Gray

Ashton:

Very impressive time line!!!! And I think you already know a whole lot about Ruth and Michael Paine

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

If Connally had foreknowledge of an assassination in Dallas, he had to be assured that it would not take place while he and his wife were in the same car with JFK. And that meant telling him it would occur at the Trade Mart.

Connally's insistence that the luncheon take place at the Trade Mart thus had nothing to do with the resulting motorcade route, which to Connally's mind was immaterial. The Trade Mart had to be chosen, Connally thought, because as an assassination site it was less secure than the alternate site.

Connally could have been lied to not because he was also an intended target, but because it was the only way to get him into that car as protocol dictated. But if we ask who would have wanted him dead along with JFK, we must ask who would have benefited, and only one person would have obviously benefited from both deaths. Also, getting rid of Connally, because he knew too much about LBJ, would have the additional benefit of sending a message to Cliff Carter, who knew too much too.

All this of course would not have been lost on Connally, who survived the attempt on his life. What was his reason for rejecting the SBT when he could have just kept quiet about it, since he was officially accepting the WC's conclusion that LHO acted alone? The rejection didn't make any sense, as the WC's conclusion rested upon the SBT. The rejection of the SBT had to be Connally's way of saying there was a conspiracy, which was the only way he could get back at those who had him shot. He was saying, "There was a conspiracy, but that’s all I can say because I was one of the conspirators."

Also, I recall that Nellie Connally in her book says that when John became the Secretary of the Treasury under Nixon, he conducted his own private investigation into the assassination. That doesn't make any sense either, unless Connally was trying to find something to confirm his suspicion that he had been an intended target too. I would have done the same thing if they had shot me.

As for LBJ, wanting Connally dead too might make more sense of the question LBJ posed to Hoover: "How did it happen they hit Connally?" On the face of it it's a stupid question, the obvious answer being that Connally was shot by accident in the crossfire. But the question makes sense if what LBJ was really asking was, "That bastard Connally didn't die. What am I going to say to him?"

And Hoover's seemingly nonsensical answer (that Connally was accidentally shot from the front, nonsensical because it was contrary to the official story of a lone gunman) makes sense if Hoover meant, "Here’s about all that you can privately tell him."

Ron

It is my understanding that there was a huge fight between JFK and LBJ over the seating arrangements in the car. With LBJ wanting Senator Ralph Yarborough in Connally's seat.

JFK prevailed; and Sen. Yarbororough rode two cars behind JFK's. He would later tell the WC that he "smelled gunpowder " nearby. Gordon Arnold, a 22 year old soldier was attmpting to film the motorcade from the Grassy Knoll. A "Secret Service" agent told him to move, so he moved to a spot higher on the GK. When the motorcade arrived he heard a shot from "behind" himself. "only inches over (his) left shoulder". So he "hit the dirt". Shortly thereafter a police officer approached Arnold and Arnold recounted his story.

However, according to author Anthony Summers- "Conspiracy" -no one took Artnold's name and no official body ever interviewed him". "In 1978 HSCA learned about him but failed to interview him". (p 59).

Senator Yarborough would later state that he saw a person in Arnold's position throw himself on the ground. That he immediately knew it had to be a combat vet. "who knows how to act when weapons start firing".

In addition to Ralph Yarborough saying he smelled gunpowder, two other witnesses in the motorcade stated the same thing: Congressman Ray Roberts and - get this: the wife Dallas Mayor Earle Cabal, brother of Dep. Dir. of CIA, Charles Cabal, fired, along with CIA director Allen Dulles, by JFK.

I daresay Mr. and Mrs. Cabal must have had some very interesting pillow talk after 11/22/63.

Dawn

[Ron Ecker]

It is my understanding that there was a huge fight between JFK and LBJ over the seating arrangements in the car. With LBJ wanting Senator Ralph Yarborough in Connally's seat.

Dawn,

I consider this argument over the seating arrangements to be another JFK myth, like the Murchison party, until I see some proof of it.

Manchester says there was some argument between JFK and LBJ, and the name Yarborough was heard mentioned. Period.

As far as I know, the only two people who knew what the argument was about are both dead. The subject of the argument is pure speculation. If the argument was anything about Yarborough, what else was new?

Ron

[Antti Hynonen]

Ashton Gray Posted Yesterday, 12:49 PM

22 October 1962

John F. Kennedy speaks to the nation announcing the presence of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg is called to Washington D.C. as a consultant on the crisis. He serves as an intermediary between a crisis work group at RAND and the Pentagon, being flown back and forth between D.C. and Santa Monica in a military plane. Ellsberg is working directly with the Executive Committee of the National Security Council (ExComm).

27 October 1962

John F. Kennedy decides to quietly accede to Kruschev's demands to have American Jupiter missiles removed from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet missiles being removed from Cuba. Daniel Ellsberg, at the Pentagon, is absolutely outraged. This completely contravenes the dictates of Ellsberg's Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) theory of international relations.

30 October 1962

Kerry Thornley becomes a member of the Hotel, Motel, and Restaurant Employees Union [known today as the Hotel and Restaurant Employees and Bartenders' Union International] in New Orleans. Its office is in the Newman Building at 544 Camp Street [which also has an address of 531 Lafayette Street].

10 December 1962

A top-secret CIA program called QK/ENCHANT has been started: "J. Monroe SULLIVAN, #280207, was granted a covert security approval on 10 December 1962 so that he could be used in Project QK/ENCHANT. SHAW has #402897-A" [NOTE: From a CIA document summarizing Clay Shaw's contacts with CIA.]

1 c. February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine gets the first of two phone calls from Everett Glover concerning a get-together at his home on 22 February 1963.

13 February 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald attend a dinner party at the home of George De Mohrenschildt.

22 February 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine meets George De Mohrenschildt, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Marina Oswald at "a gathering of friends" at the home of Everett Glover. Also attending are two "roommates" of Glover: "Dirk" or "Volkmar Schmidt" and "Richard Pierce."

2 March 1963

Lee and Marina Oswald move to 214 Neely Street in Dallas, Texas.

9-10 March 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald purportedly takes photos of the home of General Edwin Walker.

11 March 1963

The Militant, a prominent left-wing publication, publishes a letter signed "L.H.," believed to have been written by Lee Harvey Oswald.

12 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald, for the first time, at the new apartment. On the same day, Lee Harvey Oswald orders a rifle and revolver from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago, Illinois.

20 March 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine visits Marina Oswald at the Neely Street house again. This is the same day the rifle and revolver are shipped to Lee Harvey Oswald.

31 March 1963

Photos of Lee Harvey Oswald are taken with him holding weapons and a newspaper.

1 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald is "fired" by Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

2 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald go to the home of Ruth Hyde Paine purportedly for a dinner. Also present is Ruth's estranged husband, Michael Paine.

5 April 1963

A photo of Lee Harvey Oswald with weapons is signed on the back with this date and "To my friend George from Lee Oswald." The handwriting is attributed later to Lee Harvey Oswald. Additional unattributed writing says: "Copyright Geo do [sic] M" and the words, in Russian: "Hunter of fascists, ha-ha-ha!"

6 April 1963

Lee Harvey Oswald's last work day at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

8 April 1963

There is a flight plan of this date for a flight from New Orleans piloted by David Ferrie. Passengers listed are Hidell (an alias for Lee Harvey Oswald), Lambert (an alias for Clay Shaw) and Diaz. The destination is Garland, Texas.

20 April 1963

Ruth Hyde Paine has a "picnic" with Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald at a park near the Oswald's Neely Street apartment.

23 April 1963

Lyndon Johnson is in Dallas for the Second Annual NASA Manned Space Flight Conference. He makes an announcement about some kind of plan for John F. Kennedy to visit Dallas.

24 April 1963

The Dallas Times Herald is headlined: "LBJ sees Kennedy Dallas Visit—One Day Texas Tour Eyed." Ruth Hyde Paine comes to the Oswald's Neely Street residence at 10:00 a.m. Lee Harvey Oswald is completely packed for a trip to New Orleans, as are most of the contents of the apartment. Ruth Hyde Paine drives Oswald to the bus station.

Ashton Gray

Mr. Gray you may want to add the alleged "pot shot" by Oswald at Gen Edwin A. Walker to your time line, this occurred on April 10th 1963, if I recall correctly. Great time line by the way.

Also I find it interesting that the Camp & Lafayette St. corner comes around again.

[Ashton Gray]

Hi, Mr. Hynonen,

Mr. Gray you may want to add the alleged "pot shot" by Oswald at Gen Edwin A. Walker to your time line, this occurred on April 10th 1963, if I recall correctly. Great time line by the way.

I'm sure the shooting at the Walker house is going to be added. This excerpted section of timeline was sent to me from a friend who for a few days has been inputting JFK data using a copy of the timeline database file I posted about in this thread:

JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts

As I understand it she noticed these particular relationships emerging and just exported a text file of a selected set of records, so the Walker incident may already be in her database but didn't meet her export criteria for this particular segment. I'll check. I hope to get a copy of the database itself with everything she's entered so far sometime this weekend.

Also I find it interesting that the Camp & Lafayette St. corner comes around again.

Yes. She had sent me another excerpt as well that's centered around Oswald's stint in the Big Easy, and, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, it also has some pretty interesting relationships showing up. I haven't gotten a chance to post it (it takes some annotating and formatting that I haven't had time to do), but in brief: it looks very much like Oswald was not in New Orleans at all the first week in August 1963 when he purportedly dropped into Carlos Bringuier's shop. Timelined, this coincides with the very strange "defection" of two anonymous Cubans from the "Anti-Castro training facility" and its equally strange demise. And it also coincides with the return of Kerry Thornley to New Orleans from his little extended "vacation" to "California and Mexico."

In other words, this whole dog-and-pony show from Bringuier and friends about Oswald's visits to his shop on 5 and 6 August is complete hogwash designed for no other purpose but to alibi Oswald's whereabouts during that period of time, with the absolutely insane inclusion of a "Guidebook for Marines" with "L. H. Oswald" in it to "prove" that he had been there. Then they followed up, when he came back, with the whole staged "fight" on 9 August, leading, of course, to the equally staged radio "debate."

This alibi fraud basically is the same M.O. as the fraudulent "first break-in" at the Watergate, which also never happened, and is yet one more bloody fingerprint on this identifying the same CIA scum operating in the walls.

I have every hope of getting that section of timeline she sent me also posted this weekend, in its own thread.

Ashton Gray

Edited July 28, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[Ashton Gray]

Hey, Peter.

I love the flight manifest on April 8!...I guess they were just going ice skating.

And noting that it's from New Orleans to just outside Dallas, it looks like Oswald arranged his "firing" and his last day at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall in order to make it to some important rendezvous in New Orleans on 7 April.

It seems to me besides filling in any additional items, and maybe extending it a bit longer in time, it would be good to make a list of the persons and list under them their associations with others. DeM, for example, knew Dulles and Poppy. Etc.

See my note earlier in this thread to Mr. Hynonen on this. I'm just posting data I'm getting from others as I can find time. I regrettably don't have time to be doing inputting on this or a tenth of what I'd like to be doing on it (I'm playing hooky from my work right now just to post this). I'll pass it along though.

Ashton

[Pat Speer]

If LBJ was involved in the assassination of JFK I am sure he would have said, get Connally at the same time.

It might also explain why Nixon took Connally into his administration. His inside information on Democratic Party corruption would have been useful. It was probably the same reason why Nixon also employed William Sullivan. He was the man who originally carried out the FBI investigation into the assassination of JFK.

I don't see this at all. If LBJ was involved in the assassination, he would have said, "make sure you DON'T get Connally." The men were thick as thieves. Let's not forget the LBJ feud with Yarborough which many suspect was orchestrated in order to get Connally and Yarborough to switch places. JFK shot that down, however, because he felt the need to be seen, in Dallas especially, beside the right wing Governor Connally, and not the left-wing Senator, Yarborough. The incredible frown on Connally's face throughout the last half of the motorcade and his looking back and forth on Elm BEFORE the shots rang out indicates a possibility he knew the shots were coming but not from where, IMO. As do his famous words... "My God, THEY're going to kill us all!"

As far as the people in the building orchestrating Oswald's employment etc... yes, there was an inside man, Oswald himself. Oswald sought jobs along the motorcade route. Why? Who told him to do so?

Believe me, I've tried, but it makes little sense to insinuate Buell Frazier and Roy Truly into the plot. Frazier testified that the bag he saw Oswald carry was too small to hold a rifle. This greatly damaged the WC's case against Oswald. I believe Frazier still has doubts of Oswald's guilt. Similarly, Truly testified that he thought the shots came from west of the TSBD. He also led Baker right PAST Oswald in the breakroom. If Baker hadn't caught a glimpse of Oswald on his own, then Oswald could have made his way outside without being seen in the building.

P.S. O'Donnell, O'Brien, and Ellsberg, had nothing to do with it, either. Talk of their involvement will prevent this projected timeline from being taken seriously, IMO.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Pat Speer

[James Richards]

Mr. Gray you may want to add the alleged "pot shot" by Oswald at Gen Edwin A. Walker to your time line, this occurred on April 10th 1963, if I recall correctly. (Antti Hynonen)

I like Walker's letterbox in this image below. He obviously wasn't too worried about unfriendlies knowing where he lived. I guess it would have come in handy if Oswald got lost on the way.

BTW, the man being denied entry by one of Walker's security guys is Dallas reporter Mike Quinn.

James

Edited July 29, 2006 by James Richards