Doyle, Gedney, and Abrams

[Guest Mark Valenti]

The best way to clear up the mystery of the tramps' identity would be to locate earlier photos of Doyle, Gedney, and Abrams.

We have an earlier photo of Holt, taken in 1963, and he doesn't in the least resemble his supposed "other." The tramp is at least twenty years older than Holt was in '63.

Anyone ever have any contact with the families of these three men? To put the matter to rest once and for all?

MV

[William Kelly]

The best way to clear up the mystery of the tramps' identity would be to locate earlier photos of Doyle, Gedney, and Abrams.

We have an earlier photo of Holt, taken in 1963, and he doesn't in the least resemble his supposed "other." The tramp is at least twenty years older than Holt was in '63.

Anyone ever have any contact with the families of these three men? To put the matter to rest once and for all?

MV

Mark, While Houston PD sketch artist, who attended Quantaco FBI Academy, would disagree with you about Holt, at least the enterting of a photo of Holt circa 1963 into the evidence either supports your opinion or doesn't.

The lack of any earlier photos of Doyle, Gedney and Abrams fails to support or detract for their case.

While Doyle, Gedney and Abrams may have been taken into custody by DPD on 11/22/63, they don't appear to be the tramps in the photo.

The insistance that they are and the failure to produce era photos runs against the grain here.

I think that it was "They call me Gus" Russo, who went to bed with the top echelon of the CIA, and went from independent researcher searching for the truth to disinfo agent prouting the Castro-inspiration cover-story, has something to do with it.

While working for Frontline, Russo flew out and met with the living "tramp," and proclaimed him legitimate, without getting the necessary proof, and declared Holt a fraud without evaluating the information he provided, much of which checks out - whether you believe him to be a tramp or not.

Russo also cut off development of another significant source, Jean Aase, Larry Meyer's "dumb, but accomadating broad" he took with him on the business trip to Dallas from Chicago, whose phone number was called by someone at G. Ray Gill's law office in New Orleans on Sept. 24, the day LHO left for Mexico City.

After she learned that Larry Meyers was dead, she wanted $3,000 from Frontline to answer all questions on camera as to what happend with her and Meyers that weekend, at Ruby's Club, at the Cabana Hotel, etc., but Russo got to her first. He asked her if she knew David Ferrie, who worked for Gill on Carlos Marcello's case, and is a suspect in making the call to Aase's Chicago number. She told Russo she never heard of Ferrie, and Russo told Frontline she didn't have anything worthwhile to say.

Well, now we don't really know if she did have something, because Russo headed her off at the pass, and we'll have to wait to see if she has anything to say to a Grand Jury or a Congressional hearing, or a real investigative reporter gets to question her rather than a half-baked sell out like Russo.

It isn't the internet trolls who sprout their anger and frustration at the truth coming out so slowly, but the sell outs like Russo who insert themselves and run real interference to an investigation.

BK

[Dawn Meredith]

BK:

Don't you think that Russo was probably always a sell out? I mean certain "researchers" do a bit of good to

appear as if they are critics, then it's a slam in the other direction. Once a whore always a whore.

Anyone who pushes the Castro agenda is in bed with the CIA, period. No matter what they might have written in prior years. Just for show.

Dawn

[Guest Mark Valenti]

While Doyle, Gedney and Abrams may have been taken into custody by DPD on 11/22/63, they don't appear to be the tramps in the photo.

I've seen all the evidence that points to Harrelson, Sturgis and Hunt -- and in my opinion, it's no match there either. So the question remains, who's in those photos?

Holt strikes me as more believable than Files by a country mile about his life and previous escapades. But Holt as tramp doesn't ring true either.

I think I recall that Officer Harkness "stopped" the train - does this mean it was moving as the shots were fired and stopped a few minutes afterward?

If this is true, and the tramps were found on the train as it was stopped, it either means they hopped on the train, unseen, only to be stopped seconds later. Or they were on the train as it approached Dealey Plaza from points unknown.

Whichever, the mystery continues - I feel clear about who they *aren't* but stuck in neutral as to who they are.

MV

[Jack White]

While Doyle, Gedney and Abrams may have been taken into custody by DPD on 11/22/63, they don't appear to be the tramps in the photo.

I've seen all the evidence that points to Harrelson, Sturgis and Hunt -- and in my opinion, it's no match there either. So the question remains, who's in those photos?

Holt strikes me as more believable than Files by a country mile about his life and previous escapades. But Holt as tramp doesn't ring true either.

I think I recall that Officer Harkness "stopped" the train - does this mean it was moving as the shots were fired and stopped a few minutes afterward?

If this is true, and the tramps were found on the train as it was stopped, it either means they hopped on the train, unseen, only to be stopped seconds later. Or they were on the train as it approached Dealey Plaza from points unknown.

Whichever, the mystery continues - I feel clear about who they *aren't* but stuck in neutral as to who they are.

MV

Mark...there is not a bit of doubt that Harrelson is the tall tramp.

But Sturgis is not even a close look-alike.

Jack

My earliest Harrelson study is still valid. To me, the scar over

the right eyebrow is the clincher.

Jack

[Jack White]

There is no doubt that Eduardo H. Hunt was the OLD TRAMP.

Every wrinkle matches when Hunt overlays the tramp.

Jack

Holt's face cannot be transplanted onto the tramp.

Jack

[James Richards]

Mark, While Houston PD sketch artist, who attended Quantaco FBI Academy, would disagree with you about Holt, at least the enterting of a photo of Holt circa 1963 into the evidence either supports your opinion or doesn't. (Bill Kelly)

Bill,

Is this the same person who claimed that the 'Frenchy' character was Charles Rogers? I have to admit, I'm having a hard time accepting that.

James

Edited September 8, 2006 by James Richards

[Guest Mark Valenti]

There is no doubt that Eduardo H. Hunt was the OLD TRAMP.

Every wrinkle matches when Hunt overlays the tramp.

Jack

Jack,

The individual points you cite do bear similarities to each other, but in total they do not add up to the same face to my eye.

To me, this is one of the more bizarre aspects JFK case. People look at the same two faces and see completely different things.

And it's more than just a disagreement, it's more like politics or religion - I'm sure you can't fathom why I can't see what you see and I can't fathom why you can't see what I see. It's really weird.

That's why I was hopeful that someone may have photos of Doyle, Gedney and Abrams when they were younger. If nothing else, to eliminate the possibility.

So for me, yes they do bear a similarity to Hunt and Harrelson but I do not believe they're the same guys.

MV

[William Kelly]

BK:

Don't you think that Russo was probably always a sell out? I mean certain "researchers" do a bit of good to

appear as if they are critics, then it's a slam in the other direction. Once a whore always a whore.

Anyone who pushes the Castro agenda is in bed with the CIA, period. No matter what they might have written in prior years. Just for show.

Dawn

No, I don't Dawn. I was with Russo, John Newman, Kevin Walsh, Lesar, John Judge and a few others at the original Congressional hearings considering the formation of the ARRB, and sitting there with them in the basement cafateria over lunch, I got the impression Russo was like me - an independent freelance researcher interested in getting to the whole truth.

Then John Judge told me Russo was having lunch with top ex-CIA officials at fancy restaurants, and when asked about it, Russo gushed, "They call me Gus."

Judge said that there was a movement afoot to acknowledge that JFK's assassination was a domestic covert action, but it was connected with JFK's attempts to kill Castro and other vices, and it was just as well because the son-of-a-bitch deserved to die. While I don't love JFK, I don't hate him either, and there's a well orchestrated anti-Kennedy brigade out there - painting the dark side black and blaming JFK for his own murder.

His book, "Live by the Sword," confirmed the betrayal with the marshalling of all the facts, however new and interesting, that promotes the cover story agenda. a black prop op disinfo campaign that includes the Ultimate Sack and Max Holland's work.

The ommission of known facts and evidence in promoting a pre-arranged agenda is a serious breech of historical trust. As a student, one of the books that inspired me - G. Kinston Clark's The Critical Historian, contains the following passage, which for me, is the benchmark for such analysis.

Clark, G. Kinston – English historian, author of The Critical Historian, says:

“The distortion produced by bias are potentially present in any attempt to write history. Sometimes the danger is obvious and menacing, sometimes it is covert, coming from unexpected angles and in not easily detected forms.

….Any interpretation which makes use of facts which can be shown to be false, or accepts as certainty true facts which are dubious, or does not take into account facts which are known, are at best, potentially misleading, and possibly grossly, and dangerously deceptive.

….It is the first task of the historian to review any narrative to find what links are missing altogether…where what is defective cannot be supplied by further research, it is an historian’s duty to draw attention to the fact so that men can know where they stand.

…Any historical conception which has not been adjusted to the most recent results will cease to be satisfactory.”

The real truth will prevail despite the conserted effort against it, because of the continuing work of real freelance independent researchers and journalists, and you know who they are.

BK

[Mark Johansson]

That's what I love about Jack White. He claims there is no doubt about the tall tramp = Charles Harrelson, on the other hand he believes that the old tramp is Hunt. As if a high rank CIA man would dress up as a tramp and hide in a boxcar. Not to mention that nobody has been able to put Harrelson and Hunt together. There is no connection whatsoever that we know of.

And of course, Jack White consistently forgets to include this photo in his comparisons:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/trampear.JPG

Is that maybe because anyone can see that's not Hunt, but Chauncey Holt, up to the perfect ear match ??

But best of all, he ignores that Chauncey Holt confirmed Harrelson as the tall tramp. So he actually agrees with Holt!

Hurray!

Mark

PS: Actually, the best of all is that Jack White has a mouth full about spreading false stories. How Ironic.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Mark Johansson

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Oh great, we are back to this again are we. No wonder this case is 43 years old, and still no closer to a solution.....................