John Floyd Hull

[John Simkin]

I have managed to get a good photograph of John Floyd Hull. My page on him is number two at Google. Maybe I can get him to sue me like he did Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhullJ.htm

[Terry Mauro]

I have managed to get a good photograph of John Floyd Hull. My page on him is number two at Google. Maybe I can get him to sue me like he did Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhullJ.htm

***************************************************************

Dixie Dea posted the link, here on The Education Forum, back on January 20, 2004, in Reply # 69 of thread # 29263 titled Re: No Name Key mercenaries linked to the JFK assassination

http://www.williambowles.info/ini/hull-chron.html

CHRONOLOGY OF JOHN HULL'S ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES June 7, 1991

1982-1986

John Hull's ranch in Northern Costa Rica serves as the main supply base for the contras on the Southern Front of Nicaragua. [Newsday, 5/10/87]

October 1984

Hull receives $10,000 a month from the Reagan-Bush Administration's National Security Council…

September 1984

and deposits the money into a Miami bank account. [senate Foreign Relations subcommittee report, "Private Assistance' and the Contras: A Staff Report." 10/14/86] [Common Cause, Sept/Oct. 1985] [Covert Action Bulletin, Winter 86] [New York Daily News, 1/8/87]

1984

Hull takes out a $375,000 loan from the Overseas Private Investment Corporation for a supposed manufacturing project. Hull deposits the money into his private account in Indiana and the project is never started. He later defaults on the loan. [senate Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee: ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' a report on investigation of contra drug trafficking, April 1989]

April 9, 1984

Plane piloted by a Nicaraguan crashes while taking off from the airstrip on Hull's ranch, purportedly because it was overloaded with military supplies. [Tico Times, 9/28/84]

April 25, 1984

Hull's ranch is raided and he is detained by security officers investigating allegations of Southern Front contra activities in Costa Rica. [Tico Times 4/27/84]

April 1984

Pastora is given a 30-day deadline to unify his forces with the F.D.N. in the North. [Out of Control, Leslie Cockburn]

May 30, 1984

A bomb explodes in La Penca, Nicaragua, killing three journalists--including U.S. citizen Linda Frazier--and injuring many others. The bomb's apparent target, moderate contra leader Eden Pastora, is injured but survives. One of the reporters wounded in the bombing is ABC cameraman Tony Avirgan. [Convergence, Spring 1987]

May 30, 1984

Hull, Robert Owen, C.I.A. station chief Phil Holtz and several pilots meet in a C.I.A. safe house in San Jose, Costa Rica. After news of the explosion, Hull phones his associates to instruct that his private plane not be used to help the wounded. [Costa Rican Special Prosecutor's Report, Dec. 1989]

June 22, 1984

Hull obtains Costa Rican citizenship, which he later claims was at the C.I.A.'s request. [Tico Times, 3/23/90]

October 1984

Costa Rican Government initiates investigation of Hull after he admits on radio that he aided the contras. [Tico Times, 10/26/84]

December 1984

According to mercenary Jack Terrell, Hull, Robert Owen, Felipe Vidal and the alleged bomber Amac Galil meet and discuss the continuing need to kill Pastora. [New York Times, 3/1/90]

July 18, 1985

David, an eyewitness source for Avirgan and Honey's La Penca investigation, is kidnapped and later allegedly murdered on Hull's ranch. [Convergence Magazine, Spring 1988]

October 1985

At a San Jose, Costa Rica press conference, Tony Avirgan (who was injured in the bombing) and Martha Honey present the findings from their investigation of the La Penca bombing, identifying Hull as one of the bombing's planners. [La Penca: Report of an Investigation, Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey , 1985]

Days after Avirgan and Honey's report is published, Hull files suit against the journalists, charging them with ``injuries, falsehood and defamation of character'' because of their allegations of his role in the bombing [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, Edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987]

April 1986

A CBS "West 57th Street" broadcast airs, in which former contra resupply pilots identify Hull's ranch as major transhipment point for military supplies and drugs, but Hull denies any role in the contra resupply network.

May 22-23, 1986

Trial against Avirgan and Honey takes place, resulting in a victory for the two journalists after documents and witnesses confirm their findings. The judge throws Hull's lawsuit out of court. [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987]

May 1986

Christic Institute attorneys file the La Penca lawsuit (Avirgan v. Hull) on behalf of Avirgan and Honey, naming Hull and 28 others as major figures in a racketeering network involved in drug trafficking, arms smuggling. The same ring engineered the La Penca bombing, the suit alleges. [Convergence, Spring 1987]

May 5, 1988

Costa Rican police announce an investigation into charges of Hull's involvement in arms and drug trafficking.

May 1988

Christic Institute takes Hull's deposition for the La Penca lawsuit. He refuses to cooperate in the proceedings.

June 1988

Federal Judge James L. King dismisses La Penca lawsuit in Miami two days before the trial is scheduled to begin, arguing that there is no evidence linking Hull and others to the bombing. The Christic Institute immediately announces it will appeal.

January 1989

Costa Rican authorities arrest Hull on charges of drug trafficking and using Costa Rican territory for ``hostile acts'' against NIcaragua. [Tico Times, 3/23/90]

April 1989

Sen. John Kerry's Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee releases a 1,200-page report, ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' including testimony that Hull's ranch was used for gun- and drug-smuggling operations. One eyewitness tell the subcommittee that Hull supervised the transfer of drugs into a plane before its return journey to the United States.

May 26, 1989

John Hull fails to appear to testify before the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly's Special Commission Investigating Narcotics. Hull later appears before the commission but refuses to be sworn in to testify.

July 1989

Costa Rican Legislative Assembly concludes in an official report that Hull was trafficking drugs through the country on behalf of the contras. [The Guardian, 8/30/89]

July 1989

Hull flees Costa Rica while waiting trial, jumping a $37,000 bail posted by friends. Several reports confirm that D.E.A. agent Juan Perez arranged his secret flight out of the country. [Convergence, Winter 1991] [Tico Times, 12/7/90]

September 1989

Based on the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly report on drug trafficking, Oliver North, Richard Secord, former U.S. Ambassador Lewis Tambs and former National Security Adviser John Poindexter are all declared personae non gratae and banned from Costa Rica by the country's government. Secord is a defendant in Avirgan v. Hull. [The Guardian, 8/30/89]

March 1990

Hull is indicted for murder in Costa Rica on charges that he masterminded the La Penca bombing. [Convergence, Spring 1990]

May 1990

ABC Primetime Live airs Diane Sawyer's interview with Carlos Lehder, a key figure in the Medellin cocaine cartel. Lehder names Hull as a major cocaine trafficker and says Hull smuggled 30 tons of cocaine into the United States yearly.

June 1990

Hull's name added to Interpol's "most wanted" list of international fugitives at the request of Costa Rican special prosecutor Jorge Chaverria. [Convergence, Fall 1990]

November 1990

Costa Rican Legislative Assembly establishes four-member La Penca investigative committee with representatives from all political parties.

November 1990

Hull slips into Nicaragua on a 72-hour visa and soon disappears. [Los Angeles Times 12/7/90] [uPI 12/11/90]

December 1990

Investigators track Hull to a remote town in Southern Nicaragua--Juigalpa--which is the seat of an extreme right-wing movement against the conservative government of Violetta Chamorro. Hull is reported to be looking into investments to help contra veterans. [Tico Times, 12/7/90]

December 7, 1990

Costa Rica officially asks Nicaragua to extradite Hull.

December 11, 1990

Nicaraguan Supreme Court orders the arrest of Hull, although Presidential Minister Antonio Lacayo denies any knowledge of the case and says Hull was not facing criminal charges in Nicaragua. [uPI 12/12/90] Hull quietly leaves Nicaragua and returns to the United States.

April 19, 1991

The Costa Rican Ambassador submits a formal request to the U.S. State Department to extradite Hull.

________________________________________

John Hull - another bastard who should rot in hell.

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Simkin]

Although the following documented article was writen in 1989 and published in 1990 by the San Diego Reader and a copy given to Gary Webb by Neal Matthews the author in 1990, portions from the following are taken from testimony given under oath in 1984 and other portions were later classified by the Senate of the United States in 1991. This article was pulled from the main stream of the media at the request of the CIA and the FBI (documented) because it might compromise an "ongoing investigation". The investigation was never named. The article by Neal Mathews went to press before the Reader received the request to 'Stop" the article. The San Deigo local paper was about to publish a follow up but cancelled at the request of the federal government.

I ask? Would this come under the heading of "Mockingbird" or "John Hull". You can not find this article and its map on the internet today only a very small reference to the name. "I Ran Guns for Uncle Sam". It was after the article had been published that the secret air base in Costa Rico and the Ollie North note books confirmed "Point West" (Santa Elena) and some of the names in the article became public in the Contra Hearings. One month to the day after this article appeared in the California magazine, I received my first IRS audit. Three months after that I received my first lien on all bank accounts and wages. (documented)

The following is from a previous publication; San Deigo Reader Vol 19 Number 13; April 1990

Also detailed portions can be found in the," Top Secret; Classified Committee Sensitive; testimony given under oath to Senator John Kerry by William Plumlee. Also reported in interview April 1986 CBS 57 Street Magazine:

SCANED 10/15/06 from article of 1990

(continued from page 23)

"....rebel army needed bases," Plumlee

explains. "The gun suppliers -

first the CIA and later the private

people who turned the war into a

business- had to strike deals with

the drug people in order to share

these strips. You can't stay sane

and safe down there without being

on good terms with the CAF - the

Colombian Air Force. I've taxied

right up with a load of guns, and

on the other side of the field,

they're loading up drugs at the

same time."

The map note refers to Barry

Seal and Luis Ochoa, the

Colombian drug magnate, running

cocaine into Santa Elena. The

C-130 and DC-6B notations refer

to the reason the field was

improved and the airstrip

lengthened at the direction of

Secord and North. "Barry Seal

had flown in the Fat Lady with

weapons one time and got her

stuck:' Plumlee says. "That

decided 'em to lengthen the

airstrip:'

Interestingly, during John

Poindexter's current trial, in which

he is charged with conspiracy to

destroy documents, obstruct

investigations, and lie to Congress,

the prosecutor introduced a memo

from Oliver North that seems to

corroborate Plumlee's story about

the stuck airplane. North had

written to Poindexter that "one of

the planes of the contra resupply

operation got mired down in the

mud at an airport in Costa Rica:'

Another reason Santa Elena was

upgraded was that the other major

staging area for the contras'

southern front, the ranch owned

by American citizen John Hull,

150 kilometers east-southeast of

Santa Elena, wasn't big enough for

the scale of the operation. Also,

even though Hull worked closely

with the CIA in helping to arm the

contras, the use of an American's

land in Costa Rica for an arms shipment

point was politically unacceptable to the Costa Rican

government.

PT Patrol, Santa Elena

Three extremely fast "stealth"

boats were used to patrol the

waters off Santa Elena and protect

- the secret airfield, Plumlee says,

and the boats had a connection to

San Diego. Karl Phaler, a

San Diegan, had helped

EI Salvador modify several Boston

Whalers into fast patrol boats in

1980 and 1981. Plumlee says the

Black Crewmen always called the

Santa Elena patrol boats "Phaler

boats:' In an interview, Phaler said

he doesn't knowho if the boats he ,

helped build for EI Salvador might

have ended up off Costa Rica.

"Maybe somebody else just used

my design and the name stuck:'

Phaler later established a boat

company called Freedom Marine

in San Diego and sold three radardeflecting

Kevlar boats to the

contras for $140,000, according to

testimony by Robert Owen before

the Iran-contra committee. Contra

leader Adolfo Colero had visited

the boat company in San Diego in

1984 and taken a ride on one of

the boats. In a 1987 San Diego

Union story about the boat

purchase, Karl Phaler gushed that

"Oliver North said I was a great

American. After a compliment like

that; I would have done just about

anything:' Phaler was told that the

heavily armored boats, which were

fitted with machine gun mounts,

were to be used to transport food,

military equipment, and medical

supplies to the contras. But he

never actually found out where the

boats were delivered or how they

were used."North by Northwest:' 'toys for

Eden'.

Until May 1984, contra leader

Eden Pastora was the major

beneficiary of weapons shipments

to Hull's ranch and Santa Elena.

Costa Rica actually has three areas

called Santa Elena; Plumlee says

Oliver North and his courier,

Robert Owen, assigned the code

name "Point West" to the Santa

Elena staging area on the

northwest coast of Costa Rica. So

Plumlee's notation refers to Oliver

North, the location of Santa Elena,

and the main reason for its

existence.

On May 30 of 1984, at a jungle

hideout, La Penca, just inside

Nicaragua, a bomb exploded

during a press conference called by

Pastora. He was decrying the CIA's

pressure on him to merge with the

main faction of contras in

Honduras. One American and

several Costa Rican journalists

were killed, but Pastora survived.

The bombing, which was never

solved, became the basis of a

lawsuit filed by the Christic

Institute, a nonprofit publicinterest

law firm based in

Washington, D.C. The suit claimed

that the bombing was part of a

criminal conspiracy that also

included illegal covert arms

smuggling, violations of banking

and currency laws, and political

assassination.

Filed in federal

court under the Racketeer-

Influenced and Corrupt

Organizations statute, the suit

named 29 defendants (including

Hull, Secord, Owen, Pablo

Escobar, and several CIA officials)

who allegedly had a direct or

indirect hand in the La Penca

bombing and in various secret wars

all over the world.

The lawsuit was

dismissed for lack of evidence last

July and is currently on appeal.

Before the bombing, Plumlee

says that Pastora's guerilla

commanders often complained

about the shoddy gear they were

receiving. They also complained

about the escalating prices they

had to pay for equipment. Plumlee

began to share their frustration.

The guns weren't for sale when

we were taking them to Guatamala

and EI Salvador a few years

earlier," he remarks. "But in Costa

Rica in 1982, '83, and '84,

suddenly the guns are being sold

to Pastora. His commanders would

say stuff like, 'Well, you really

xxxxed up my budget this month:

And some of the stuff was crap -

boots with holes in 'em, old M-ls

instead of M-16s, medical supplies

that had their seals broken. It was

a business, and we were bringing

drugs back to pay for it. We were

trading better weapons to the drug

cartels in return for use of their

airstrips. I thought this was a xxxxty

way to fight for democracy:

Once the contra resupply effort

was outlawed by Congress in 1984,

Plumlee says, the airplanes '

themselves became rattletraps.

Oliver North's job was to

circumvent the congressional ban

on government aid to the contras,

and that was accomplished by

commissioning Richard Secord to

bring in private arms dealers and

aircraft suppliers to do the work

for profit. Plumlee says these

outfits didn't take care of their

airplanes nearly as well as the CIA

did, and he ended up flying planes

that sometimes had no

airworthiness certificates on board.

Many of the planes had defective

instruments, which was a serious

problem when he had to deliver

equipment during the rainy

season. "Directional gyros were

broken, so you couldn't tell if you

were drifting off course; there were

magnetic compasses with low fluid

levels, so the compass would stick.

Artificial horizons that were

partially working, which is worse

than not working at all. Hydraulic

problems. See, this way, if a plane .... ".

(cont)

I Ran Drugs For Uncle Sam

(References can also found in FOIA FBI document: 4-1657-23 and 134-5698-21; declassified 10-23-2001)

I am very interested in John Floyd Hull's relationship with George Bush and Ted Shackley. Robert Owen seems to be a key figure in this and definitely needs researching in more detail. It would be important if we can link Shackley to Hull in the early 1960s.

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Terry Mauro]

Although the following documented article was writen in 1989 and published in 1990 by the San Diego Reader and a copy given to Gary Webb by Neal Matthews the author in 1990, portions from the following are taken from testimony given under oath in 1984 and other portions were later classified by the Senate of the United States in 1991. This article was pulled from the main stream of the media at the request of the CIA and the FBI (documented) because it might compromise an "ongoing investigation". The investigation was never named. The article by Neal Mathews went to press before the Reader received the request to 'Stop" the article. The San Deigo local paper was about to publish a follow up but cancelled at the request of the federal government.

I ask? Would this come under the heading of "Mockingbird" or "John Hull". You can not find this article and its map on the internet today only a very small reference to the name. "I Ran Guns for Uncle Sam". It was after the article had been published that the secret air base in Costa Rico and the Ollie North note books confirmed "Point West" (Santa Elena) and some of the names in the article became public in the Contra Hearings. One month to the day after this article appeared in the California magazine, I received my first IRS audit. Three months after that I received my first lien on all bank accounts and wages. (documented)

The following is from a previous publication; San Deigo Reader Vol 19 Number 13; April 1990

Also detailed portions can be found in the," Top Secret; Classified Committee Sensitive; testimony given under oath to Senator John Kerry by William Plumlee. Also reported in interview April 1986 CBS 57 Street Magazine:

SCANED 10/15/06 from article of 1990

(continued from page 23)

"....rebel army needed bases," Plumlee

explains. "The gun suppliers -

first the CIA and later the private

people who turned the war into a

business- had to strike deals with

the drug people in order to share

these strips. You can't stay sane

and safe down there without being

on good terms with the CAF - the

Colombian Air Force. I've taxied

right up with a load of guns, and

on the other side of the field,

they're loading up drugs at the

same time."

The map note refers to Barry

Seal and Luis Ochoa, the

Colombian drug magnate, running

cocaine into Santa Elena. The

C-130 and DC-6B notations refer

to the reason the field was

improved and the airstrip

lengthened at the direction of

Secord and North. "Barry Seal

had flown in the Fat Lady with

weapons one time and got her

stuck:' Plumlee says. "That

decided 'em to lengthen the

airstrip:'

Interestingly, during John

Poindexter's current trial, in which

he is charged with conspiracy to

destroy documents, obstruct

investigations, and lie to Congress,

the prosecutor introduced a memo

from Oliver North that seems to

corroborate Plumlee's story about

the stuck airplane. North had

written to Poindexter that "one of

the planes of the contra resupply

operation got mired down in the

mud at an airport in Costa Rica:'

Another reason Santa Elena was

upgraded was that the other major

staging area for the contras'

southern front, the ranch owned

by American citizen John Hull,

150 kilometers east-southeast of

Santa Elena, wasn't big enough for

the scale of the operation. Also,

even though Hull worked closely

with the CIA in helping to arm the

contras, the use of an American's

land in Costa Rica for an arms shipment

point was politically unacceptable to the Costa Rican

government.

PT Patrol, Santa Elena

Three extremely fast "stealth"

boats were used to patrol the

waters off Santa Elena and protect

- the secret airfield, Plumlee says,

and the boats had a connection to

San Diego. Karl Phaler, a

San Diegan, had helped

EI Salvador modify several Boston

Whalers into fast patrol boats in

1980 and 1981. Plumlee says the

Black Crewmen always called the

Santa Elena patrol boats "Phaler

boats:' In an interview, Phaler said

he doesn't knowho if the boats he ,

helped build for EI Salvador might

have ended up off Costa Rica.

"Maybe somebody else just used

my design and the name stuck:'

Phaler later established a boat

company called Freedom Marine

in San Diego and sold three radardeflecting

Kevlar boats to the

contras for $140,000, according to

testimony by Robert Owen before

the Iran-contra committee. Contra

leader Adolfo Colero had visited

the boat company in San Diego in

1984 and taken a ride on one of

the boats. In a 1987 San Diego

Union story about the boat

purchase, Karl Phaler gushed that

"Oliver North said I was a great

American. After a compliment like

that; I would have done just about

anything:' Phaler was told that the

heavily armored boats, which were

fitted with machine gun mounts,

were to be used to transport food,

military equipment, and medical

supplies to the contras. But he

never actually found out where the

boats were delivered or how they

were used."North by Northwest:' 'toys for

Eden'.

Until May 1984, contra leader

Eden Pastora was the major

beneficiary of weapons shipments

to Hull's ranch and Santa Elena.

Costa Rica actually has three areas

called Santa Elena; Plumlee says

Oliver North and his courier,

Robert Owen, assigned the code

name "Point West" to the Santa

Elena staging area on the

northwest coast of Costa Rica. So

Plumlee's notation refers to Oliver

North, the location of Santa Elena,

and the main reason for its

existence.

On May 30 of 1984, at a jungle

hideout, La Penca, just inside

Nicaragua, a bomb exploded

during a press conference called by

Pastora. He was decrying the CIA's

pressure on him to merge with the

main faction of contras in

Honduras. One American and

several Costa Rican journalists

were killed, but Pastora survived.

The bombing, which was never

solved, became the basis of a

lawsuit filed by the Christic

Institute, a nonprofit publicinterest

law firm based in

Washington, D.C. The suit claimed

that the bombing was part of a

criminal conspiracy that also

included illegal covert arms

smuggling, violations of banking

and currency laws, and political

assassination.

Filed in federal

court under the Racketeer-

Influenced and Corrupt

Organizations statute, the suit

named 29 defendants (including

Hull, Secord, Owen, Pablo

Escobar, and several CIA officials)

who allegedly had a direct or

indirect hand in the La Penca

bombing and in various secret wars

all over the world.

The lawsuit was

dismissed for lack of evidence last

July and is currently on appeal.

Before the bombing, Plumlee

says that Pastora's guerilla

commanders often complained

about the shoddy gear they were

receiving. They also complained

about the escalating prices they

had to pay for equipment. Plumlee

began to share their frustration.

The guns weren't for sale when

we were taking them to Guatamala

and EI Salvador a few years

earlier," he remarks. "But in Costa

Rica in 1982, '83, and '84,

suddenly the guns are being sold

to Pastora. His commanders would

say stuff like, 'Well, you really

xxxxed up my budget this month:

And some of the stuff was crap -

boots with holes in 'em, old M-ls

instead of M-16s, medical supplies

that had their seals broken. It was

a business, and we were bringing

drugs back to pay for it. We were

trading better weapons to the drug

cartels in return for use of their

airstrips. I thought this was a xxxxty

way to fight for democracy:

Once the contra resupply effort

was outlawed by Congress in 1984,

Plumlee says, the airplanes '

themselves became rattletraps.

Oliver North's job was to

circumvent the congressional ban

on government aid to the contras,

and that was accomplished by

commissioning Richard Secord to

bring in private arms dealers and

aircraft suppliers to do the work

for profit. Plumlee says these

outfits didn't take care of their

airplanes nearly as well as the CIA

did, and he ended up flying planes

that sometimes had no

airworthiness certificates on board.

Many of the planes had defective

instruments, which was a serious

problem when he had to deliver

equipment during the rainy

season. "Directional gyros were

broken, so you couldn't tell if you

were drifting off course; there were

magnetic compasses with low fluid

levels, so the compass would stick.

Artificial horizons that were

partially working, which is worse

than not working at all. Hydraulic

problems. See, this way, if a plane .... ".

(cont)

I Ran Drugs For Uncle Sam

(References can also found in FOIA FBI document: 4-1657-23 and 134-5698-21; declassified 10-23-2001)

I am very interested in John Floyd Hull's relationship with George Bush and Ted Shackley. Robert Owen seems to be a key figure in this and definitely needs researching in more detail. It would be important if we can link Shackley to Hull in the early 1960s.

John: I am not sure I can help on this-- BUT? At the time I was in Washington DC John Hull's name was associated with an inter FBI memo request for information on one John Hull. I was shown this memo and asked to comment on it, or if I knew this person and his associates. I could not help much because the information asked was about activities in the time frame of 1963 and I did not know this person.

The memo stated that Hull was believed to be associated with persons attatched to "military style" activities of a civilian nature. I do not have a copy of that document because I think it is still classified. At this point "I speculate".

I was under the impression at the time that this John Hull was associated with gun running activites in the Louisanna area. That he had connections with Martino, Masferrger?spel), John Farentello, and Mayer Lanskey of Miami Beach.

Years later when I made reference to this document and associated it with John Hull of Costa Rico, that I thought was the Hull of the sixties, I was told that the Hull in Costa Rico of the 80's was a different John Hull. The Hull of the 60', if I remember right, found in the FBI's memo, was associated with interest in Havana and persons who had fled Cuba in 1959-60. I am not sure if this helps. I have no way to document this. Its only my word and what I remember and a degree of speculations on my part. I have been told that there were two John Hulls. However, both can be found in classified files of the United States Government. I believe Senator John Kerry can shed light on this matter if he would.

As I have said. I can not prove the above information as fact and perhaps should be considered speculation only, but I feel it should be looked into. It is in my memory from that time span of the sixties and the 90's.

***********************************************************************

"Years later when I made reference to this document and associated it with John Hull of Costa Rico, that I thought was the Hull of the sixties, I was told that the Hull in Costa Rico of the 80's was a different John Hull. The Hull of the 60', if I remember right, found in the FBI's memo, was associated with interest in Havana and persons who had fled Cuba in 1959-60. I am not sure if this helps. I have no way to document this. Its only my word and what I remember and a degree of speculations on my part. I have been told that there were two John Hulls. However, both can be found in classified files of the United States Government. I believe Senator John Kerry can shed light on this matter if he would."

Seems like just another example of the dirty tricks campaign continually being perpetrated by "The Company" in order to freeze any trails that may have revealed connections between operations, i.e. multiple personalities using similar names, working similar territories, performing similar functions. Thus, affording them a modicum of Plausible Denial behind which they might cloak their liability. Of course, this is purely speculation on my part, as well. But, considering the history of abuses this agency so freely incorporates as it goes about its business practices, how far off course can we actually be?

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Simkin]

John: I am not sure I can help on this-- BUT? At the time I was in Washington DC John Hull's name was associated with an inter FBI memo request for information on one John Hull. I was shown this memo and asked to comment on it, or if I knew this person and his associates. I could not help much because the information asked was about activities in the time frame of 1963 and I did not know this person.

The memo stated that Hull was believed to be associated with persons attatched to "military style" activities of a civilian nature. I do not have a copy of that document because I think it is still classified. At this point "I speculate".

I was under the impression at the time that this John Hull was associated with gun running activites in the Louisanna area. That he had connections with Martino, Masferrger?spel), John Farentello, and Mayer Lanskey of Miami Beach.

Years later when I made reference to this document and associated it with John Hull of Costa Rico, that I thought was the Hull of the sixties, I was told that the Hull in Costa Rico of the 80's was a different John Hull. The Hull of the 60', if I remember right, found in the FBI's memo, was associated with interest in Havana and persons who had fled Cuba in 1959-60. I am not sure if this helps. I have no way to document this. Its only my word and what I remember and a degree of speculations on my part. I have been told that there were two John Hulls. However, both can be found in classified files of the United States Government. I believe Senator John Kerry can shed light on this matter if he would.

As I have said. I can not prove the above information as fact and perhaps should be considered speculation only, but I feel it should be looked into. It is in my memory from that time span of the sixties and the 90's.

The man we are interested in is John Floyd Hull. We know he was connected to others in the 1980s who were involved in the assassination of JFK in 1963: Ted Shackley, Rafael Quintero, Carl E. Jenkins and Felipe Vidal.

This is what Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey (La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, 1987) have to say about John Floyd Hull:

On May 22 and 23, 1985. John Hull, a North American farmer with extensive land holdings in northern Costa Rica. brought us to trial in the First Penal Court of San Jose. Costa Rica. It was a most unusual and important trial: it pitted American citizens against each other, raised fundamental issues of the freedom of the press, and publicly revealed evidence of criminal activities and plots by, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.S. backed Nicaraguan contras operating out of Costa Rica.

John Hull charged us with Injuries. Falsehold and Defamation of Character because of what we had written about him in our report on the La Penca press conference bombing. In file suit John Hull demanded 25 million colones (almost $500,000) in damagcs, a published retraction of what we had written, and court costs which he estimated to be another 25 million colones. In addition, he asked that the court prevent us from leaving Costa Rica and place under embargo our car, house and other valuables.

John Hull had filed the suit in October 1985. just days after we had presented, at a San Jose press conference, our report on who was responsible for the May 30, 1984 bombing which killed three journalists and five guerrillas and wounded dozens of uthcrs including contra leader Eden Pastora. Tony was among the journalists injured and we had been asked to undertake an investigation and prepare a report for three U.S. based press organizations the Committee to Protect Journalists, the Newspaper Guild and the World Press Freedom Committee.

Libel cases involving the press are, in Costa Rica, heard before the Supreme Court composed of three judges. However Hull chose to sue us not as journalists, but as private individuals which meant that the case was heard before a single judge in a lower court. We believe this was a deliberate tactic since it is easier to apply pressure and influence a single judge rather than the Supreme Court. In the days before the trial Hull confidently boasted that he had the judge "in his pocket" and that it was predetermined he would win the case. In fact, the judge, Jorge Chacon Laurito, turned out to be scrupulously honest and even handed.

In addition, we believe that Hull chose to sue us as individuals in an effort to break us financially and discredit us as journalists. We were forced to personally bear the costs of our defense and would have been compelled to pay ourselves any damages had we lost the case. He attempted to belittle us professionally by implying that we had written the report and defamed him as individuals, not as journalists.

We, in turn, believed that the case should rightfully have been before the Supreme Court since we had written our report in our capacity as journalists. The report had been commissioned by three journalist organizations, had been presented to a press conference, and was subsequently published, in Spanish, as a book.

In our report we described many details of what we had learned about John Hull's activities as a CIA agent and liaison to the contras. In bringing the case against us, Hull denied four of the things we had said about him: 1) that he works for the CIA and receives money from the U.S. National Security Council; 2) that he was instrumental in integrating, as military trainers, a group of Miami Cubans into contra leader Eden Pastora's ranks; 3) that he was involved in the La Penca bombing and a subsequent plot to kill Pastora; and 4) that he had been under investigation in connection with drug trafficking operations. In our report we also stated that Hull was involved in a 1985 plot to bomb the U.S. Embassy and kill the U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica and blame these actions on the Sandinistas, thereby providing a rationale for direct U.S. intervention against Nicaragua. But, curiously, Hull chose not to challenge us on this point.

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Terry Mauro]

John: I am not sure I can help on this-- BUT? At the time I was in Washington DC John Hull's name was associated with an inter FBI memo request for information on one John Hull. I was shown this memo and asked to comment on it, or if I knew this person and his associates. I could not help much because the information asked was about activities in the time frame of 1963 and I did not know this person.

The memo stated that Hull was believed to be associated with persons attatched to "military style" activities of a civilian nature. I do not have a copy of that document because I think it is still classified. At this point "I speculate".

I was under the impression at the time that this John Hull was associated with gun running activites in the Louisanna area. That he had connections with Martino, Masferrger?spel), John Farentello, and Mayer Lanskey of Miami Beach.

Years later when I made reference to this document and associated it with John Hull of Costa Rico, that I thought was the Hull of the sixties, I was told that the Hull in Costa Rico of the 80's was a different John Hull. The Hull of the 60', if I remember right, found in the FBI's memo, was associated with interest in Havana and persons who had fled Cuba in 1959-60. I am not sure if this helps. I have no way to document this. Its only my word and what I remember and a degree of speculations on my part. I have been told that there were two John Hulls. However, both can be found in classified files of the United States Government. I believe Senator John Kerry can shed light on this matter if he would.

As I have said. I can not prove the above information as fact and perhaps should be considered speculation only, but I feel it should be looked into. It is in my memory from that time span of the sixties and the 90's.

The man we are interested in is John Floyd Hull. We know he was connected to others in the 1980s who were involved in the assassination of JFK in 1963: Ted Shackley, Rafael Quintero, Carl E. Jenkins and Felipe Vidal.

This is what Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey (La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, 1987) have to say about John Floyd Hull:

On May 22 and 23, 1985. John Hull, a North American farmer with extensive land holdings in northern Costa Rica. brought us to trial in the First Penal Court of San Jose. Costa Rica. It was a most unusual and important trial: it pitted American citizens against each other, raised fundamental issues of the freedom of the press, and publicly revealed evidence of criminal activities and plots by, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.S. backed Nicaraguan contras operating out of Costa Rica.

John Hull charged us with Injuries. Falsehold and Defamation of Character because of what we had written about him in our report on the La Penca press conference bombing. In file suit John Hull demanded 25 million colones (almost $500,000) in damagcs, a published retraction of what we had written, and court costs which he estimated to be another 25 million colones. In addition, he asked that the court prevent us from leaving Costa Rica and place under embargo our car, house and other valuables.

John Hull had filed the suit in October 1985. just days after we had presented, at a San Jose press conference, our report on who was responsible for the May 30, 1984 bombing which killed three journalists and five guerrillas and wounded dozens of uthcrs including contra leader Eden Pastora. Tony was among the journalists injured and we had been asked to undertake an investigation and prepare a report for three U.S. based press organizations the Committee to Protect Journalists, the Newspaper Guild and the World Press Freedom Committee.

Libel cases involving the press are, in Costa Rica, heard before the Supreme Court composed of three judges. However Hull chose to sue us not as journalists, but as private individuals which meant that the case was heard before a single judge in a lower court. We believe this was a deliberate tactic since it is easier to apply pressure and influence a single judge rather than the Supreme Court. In the days before the trial Hull confidently boasted that he had the judge "in his pocket" and that it was predetermined he would win the case. In fact, the judge, Jorge Chacon Laurito, turned out to be scrupulously honest and even handed.

In addition, we believe that Hull chose to sue us as individuals in an effort to break us financially and discredit us as journalists. We were forced to personally bear the costs of our defense and would have been compelled to pay ourselves any damages had we lost the case. He attempted to belittle us professionally by implying that we had written the report and defamed him as individuals, not as journalists.

We, in turn, believed that the case should rightfully have been before the Supreme Court since we had written our report in our capacity as journalists. The report had been commissioned by three journalist organizations, had been presented to a press conference, and was subsequently published, in Spanish, as a book.

In our report we described many details of what we had learned about John Hull's activities as a CIA agent and liaison to the contras. In bringing the case against us, Hull denied four of the things we had said about him: 1) that he works for the CIA and receives money from the U.S. National Security Council; 2) that he was instrumental in integrating, as military trainers, a group of Miami Cubans into contra leader Eden Pastora's ranks; 3) that he was involved in the La Penca bombing and a subsequent plot to kill Pastora; and 4) that he had been under investigation in connection with drug trafficking operations. In our report we also stated that Hull was involved in a 1985 plot to bomb the U.S. Embassy and kill the U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica and blame these actions on the Sandinistas, thereby providing a rationale for direct U.S. intervention against Nicaragua. But, curiously, Hull chose not to challenge us on this point.

John: Perhaps I should have been more clear. BOTH men had the name John Floyd Hull and the other was noted as John F Hull. It was said both were from the "Mid-Western, States of the United States". I found that strange that they would be two different people.

******************************************************************

"Keep in mind that I do know that an operative on a government sanctioned or approved operation NEVER uses his real name while engaged in that operation. Also note if the operative is recorded in an official document, into-memo or an FBI 62 file, or CIA dispatches, the name is coded with numbers; exp CI-XXXXX, and the name of the agency. CIA, AM-LASH, AM BLOOD, OPERATION TIDE, operative Blocker, Pearson, Ram; operators within TIDE. as examples. If an informate gives his real name as being the operative or as being exposed to a government sanction operation at the time of the operation, you know he is a "plant" or a BS'er. Sometime an operative will be assigned two or three operative names for many different operations at the same time. Sometimes real names of real people are used to futher confuse investigations. I hope this helps."

"BOTH men had the name John Floyd Hull and the other was noted as John F Hull. It was said both were from the "Mid-Western, States of the United States". I found that strange that they would be two different people."

Then, are you saying that the name or names, John F. Hull or John Floyd Hull could be a pseudonym, or the real name of someone that's being used to confuse the investigation? Or that Hull, himself, or his name is being used in the capacity of an asset, instead of in the capacity of a operative? Or, would the use of his real name, by himself somehow be meant as a way to exculpate him from his role as an agent for The Company, since you've stated, "that an operative on a government sanctioned or approved operation NEVER uses his real name while engaged in that operation."?

Thanks,

Ter

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Dolva]

William, could you name, correct, bio etc these please?

(image)

peter for interest also see Antonio Arguedas Mendito in Che thread

Edited October 21, 2006 by John Dolva

[John Simkin]

Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey (La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica) believed the CIA helped to get rid of Carr, one of those willing to testify against Hull.

Pastora's participation was doubtful up to the last minute. By executive order, he was legally banned from entering Costa Rica. But by court order he was legally required to show up at our trial. Less than a week before the trial began, this contradiction was resolved when Pastora quit the war and walked into Costa Rica seeking political asylum. He was thrown into jail while the Costa Rican government considered his application. He was still in jail when our trial took place, and Pastora's testimony was taken in a cell in the basement of the courthouse.

As the trial approached, Carr and Glibbery were prisoners in the La Reforma penitentiary outside San Jose. They and three other mercenaries and nine Nicaraguans had been there a year, following their arrest in a raid on a contra camp located on property controlled by John Hull. They had been turned down in their repeated attempts to get released on bail while awaiting trial on charges of illegal possession of explosives and carrying out hostile acts against a neighboring state. Glibbery and Carr had also agreed to testify on our behalf and we had delivered them subpoenas ordering that they do so.

Then, suddenly, a week before our trial began, a Costa Rican court changed its mind and granted all five mercenaries bail. Hull received the bail money through a CIA agent in Washington and confidently hoped the mercenaries would come to stay with him. He and his associates had been pressuring Carr and Glibbery not to appear as our witnesses in the trial.

However both Carr and Glibbery told us that they felt threatened by Hull and had no intention of staying with him. They chose instead to stay at our house in the days before the trial. Carr, who got out of jail a few days before Glibbery, called his uncle in the U.S. whom he told us had worked for the CIA. Carr said the uncle arranged for him to see a top CIA official in the U.S. Embassy. For several days, Carr became the first person to plead guilty to U.S. criminal charges related to the Irangate scandal.) It was also later discovered that at about the time of the trial the National Security Council was setting up its special computer network and was distributing computers to CIA agents in Central America to insure rapid and secure communication with Washington.

Throughout the trial and despite the barrage of evidence presented against him, Hull continued to say he was confident he would win. As soon as the verdict was announced, he said he would appeal. He did so to the Costa Rican Supreme Court. In October 1986 the Supreme Court rejected the appeal and upheld the decision of the lower court. That marked the end of John Hull's attempt to silence and discredit us through the Costa Rican legal system.

Although victorious, we continued to feel distressed that those responsible for the La Penca bombing and other illegal and terrorist plots were not being brought to justice. Therefore through the Christic Institute we initiated just a week after our libel trial, a suit in a Miami federal court. This suit charges John Hull and twenty-eight other defendants with criminal conspiracy, including the La Penca bombing, drug and arms trafficking, violations of the U.S. Neutrality Law and other crimes. Among those named in the suit are many people who have since emerged at key players in the Iran-contra scandal. These include Col. Oliver North's assistant Robert Owen, retired generals Richard Secord and John Singlaub, businessmen Rafael Quintero and Albert Hakim, Cuban American contra supporters and drug traffickers Felipe Vidal, René Corbo, Dagoberto Nunez and Francisco Chánez, Columbian drug traffickers Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa, Hull's business partner Bruce Jones and the La Penca bomber Amac Galil. Through a combination of this court case and the current press and congressional investigations we hope that, at long last, those responsible for the La Penca bombing and other illegal contra-related actions will be brought to justice.

[John Simkin]

Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey believe Steven Carr was murdered (La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, 1987):

Pastora's participation was doubtful up to the last minute. By executive order, he was legally banned from entering Costa Rica. But by court order he was legally required to show up at our trial. Less than a week before the trial began, this contradiction was resolved when Pastora quit the war and walked into Costa Rica seeking political asylum. He was thrown into jail while the Costa Rican government considered his application. He was still in jail when our trial took place, and Pastora's testimony was taken in a cell in the basement of the courthouse.

As the trial approached, Carr and Glibbery were prisoners in the La Reforma penitentiary outside San Jose. They and three other mercenaries and nine Nicaraguans had been there a year, following their arrest in a raid on a contra camp located on property controlled by John Hull. They had been turned down in their repeated attempts to get released on bail while awaiting trial on charges of illegal possession of explosives and carrying out hostile acts against a neighboring state. Glibbery and Carr had also agreed to testify on our behalf and we had delivered them subpoenas ordering that they do so.

Then, suddenly, a week before our trial began, a Costa Rican court changed its mind and granted all five mercenaries bail. Hull received the bail money through a CIA agent in Washington and confidently hoped the mercenaries would come to stay with him. He and his associates had been pressuring Carr and Glibbery not to appear as our witnesses in the trial.

However both Carr and Glibbery told us that they felt threatened by Hull and had no intention of staying with him. They chose instead to stay at our house in the days before the trial. Carr, who got out of jail a few days before Glibbery, called his uncle in the U.S. whom he told us had worked for the CIA. Carr said the uncle arranged for him to see a top CIA official in the U.S. Embassy. For several days, Carr said he had been at the Embassy meeting with this person and at least two other officials, Kirt Kotula and John Jones. They had arranged for him to speak with Hull by telephone from the Embassy. He said they were all urging him not to testify at our trial.

On Monday evening before the trial Carr walked out of our house to visit a friend living nearby. He never arrived there and we never saw him again.

Concerned for his safety, we reported his disappearance to the court. The court clerk said that she was later informed that Steven Carr could be reached through the U.S. Embassy. Hull's wife also told Glibbery that she knew of Carr's whereabouts.

The day of the trial, when Carr's name was read out, he was not in the courtroom and we did not know where he was, Instead we brought to the trial the duffel bag of clothing he had left behind and told the judge this was all that remained of our witness Steven Carr. We asked that the court to order Hull and the U.S. Embassy to clarify where he was and assure us he was all right.

We heard norhing of Carr until two weeks after the trial when he called us (collect) from jail in Naples, Florida. He apologized for having caused us worry and gave details of his disappearance from Costa Rica. He said that in this meetings with the U.S. Embassy officials they had told him "there's a 90% chance that Avirgan and Honey will lose the court case and that, whether they win or lose, you'll go back to jail if you testify."

Carr told us that the Embassy officials suggested that he jump bail and leave the country. He said, "`They told me to get the hell out of Dodge', and they helped me to do so." He said the Embassy provided him with a bus ticket to Panama and arranged for a border guard to get him across since he had no passport and was under court order not to leave the country. He said in Panama he was assisted by U.S. and Panamanian officials and given a plane ticket to Florida. The Embassy had promised he would not go to jail in the U.S. but, he told us, they broke this promise. As soon as he landed he was arrested and thrown in jail in Naples for a previous parole violation.

Massachusetts Senator John Kerry's staff. He was considered an important witness particularly for the investigation into an arms shipment from Florida, via El Salvador to John Hull's property. Two weeks after his release he was found dead in a Los Angeles parking lot of an apparent cocaine overdose. While in jail he told friends and journalists that he was giving up his drug habit and also that he feared for his life. A number of mysterious circumstances surround his death. John Hull later told Peter Glibbery, "The CIA Killed Steven Carr" and threatened the same would happen to him if Glibbery did not change his story.

[Terry Mauro]

John: I am not sure I can help on this-- BUT? At the time I was in Washington DC John Hull's name was associated with an inter FBI memo request for information on one John Hull. I was shown this memo and asked to comment on it, or if I knew this person and his associates. I could not help much because the information asked was about activities in the time frame of 1963 and I did not know this person.

The memo stated that Hull was believed to be associated with persons attatched to "military style" activities of a civilian nature. I do not have a copy of that document because I think it is still classified. At this point "I speculate".

I was under the impression at the time that this John Hull was associated with gun running activites in the Louisanna area. That he had connections with Martino, Masferrger?spel), John Farentello, and Mayer Lanskey of Miami Beach.

Years later when I made reference to this document and associated it with John Hull of Costa Rico, that I thought was the Hull of the sixties, I was told that the Hull in Costa Rico of the 80's was a different John Hull. The Hull of the 60', if I remember right, found in the FBI's memo, was associated with interest in Havana and persons who had fled Cuba in 1959-60. I am not sure if this helps. I have no way to document this. Its only my word and what I remember and a degree of speculations on my part. I have been told that there were two John Hulls. However, both can be found in classified files of the United States Government. I believe Senator John Kerry can shed light on this matter if he would.

As I have said. I can not prove the above information as fact and perhaps should be considered speculation only, but I feel it should be looked into. It is in my memory from that time span of the sixties and the 90's.

The man we are interested in is John Floyd Hull. We know he was connected to others in the 1980s who were involved in the assassination of JFK in 1963: Ted Shackley, Rafael Quintero, Carl E. Jenkins and Felipe Vidal.

This is what Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey (La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, 1987) have to say about John Floyd Hull:

On May 22 and 23, 1985. John Hull, a North American farmer with extensive land holdings in northern Costa Rica. brought us to trial in the First Penal Court of San Jose. Costa Rica. It was a most unusual and important trial: it pitted American citizens against each other, raised fundamental issues of the freedom of the press, and publicly revealed evidence of criminal activities and plots by, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.S. backed Nicaraguan contras operating out of Costa Rica.

John Hull charged us with Injuries. Falsehold and Defamation of Character because of what we had written about him in our report on the La Penca press conference bombing. In file suit John Hull demanded 25 million colones (almost $500,000) in damagcs, a published retraction of what we had written, and court costs which he estimated to be another 25 million colones. In addition, he asked that the court prevent us from leaving Costa Rica and place under embargo our car, house and other valuables.

John Hull had filed the suit in October 1985. just days after we had presented, at a San Jose press conference, our report on who was responsible for the May 30, 1984 bombing which killed three journalists and five guerrillas and wounded dozens of uthcrs including contra leader Eden Pastora. Tony was among the journalists injured and we had been asked to undertake an investigation and prepare a report for three U.S. based press organizations the Committee to Protect Journalists, the Newspaper Guild and the World Press Freedom Committee.

Libel cases involving the press are, in Costa Rica, heard before the Supreme Court composed of three judges. However Hull chose to sue us not as journalists, but as private individuals which meant that the case was heard before a single judge in a lower court. We believe this was a deliberate tactic since it is easier to apply pressure and influence a single judge rather than the Supreme Court. In the days before the trial Hull confidently boasted that he had the judge "in his pocket" and that it was predetermined he would win the case. In fact, the judge, Jorge Chacon Laurito, turned out to be scrupulously honest and even handed.

In addition, we believe that Hull chose to sue us as individuals in an effort to break us financially and discredit us as journalists. We were forced to personally bear the costs of our defense and would have been compelled to pay ourselves any damages had we lost the case. He attempted to belittle us professionally by implying that we had written the report and defamed him as individuals, not as journalists.

We, in turn, believed that the case should rightfully have been before the Supreme Court since we had written our report in our capacity as journalists. The report had been commissioned by three journalist organizations, had been presented to a press conference, and was subsequently published, in Spanish, as a book.

In our report we described many details of what we had learned about John Hull's activities as a CIA agent and liaison to the contras. In bringing the case against us, Hull denied four of the things we had said about him: 1) that he works for the CIA and receives money from the U.S. National Security Council; 2) that he was instrumental in integrating, as military trainers, a group of Miami Cubans into contra leader Eden Pastora's ranks; 3) that he was involved in the La Penca bombing and a subsequent plot to kill Pastora; and 4) that he had been under investigation in connection with drug trafficking operations. In our report we also stated that Hull was involved in a 1985 plot to bomb the U.S. Embassy and kill the U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica and blame these actions on the Sandinistas, thereby providing a rationale for direct U.S. intervention against Nicaragua. But, curiously, Hull chose not to challenge us on this point.

John: Perhaps I should have been more clear. BOTH men had the name John Floyd Hull and the other was noted as John F Hull. It was said both were from the "Mid-Western, States of the United States". I found that strange that they would be two different people.

******************************************************************

"Keep in mind that I do know that an operative on a government sanctioned or approved operation NEVER uses his real name while engaged in that operation. Also note if the operative is recorded in an official document, into-memo or an FBI 62 file, or CIA dispatches, the name is coded with numbers; exp CI-XXXXX, and the name of the agency. CIA, AM-LASH, AM BLOOD, OPERATION TIDE, operative Blocker, Pearson, Ram; operators within TIDE. as examples. If an informate gives his real name as being the operative or as being exposed to a government sanction operation at the time of the operation, you know he is a "plant" or a BS'er. Sometime an operative will be assigned two or three operative names for many different operations at the same time. Sometimes real names of real people are used to futher confuse investigations. I hope this helps."

"BOTH men had the name John Floyd Hull and the other was noted as John F Hull. It was said both were from the "Mid-Western, States of the United States". I found that strange that they would be two different people."

Then, are you saying that the name or names, John F. Hull or John Floyd Hull could be a pseudonym, or the real name of someone that's being used to confuse the investigation? Or that Hull, himself, or his name is being used in the capacity of an asset, instead of in the capacity of a operative? Or, would the use of his real name, by himself somehow be meant as a way to exculpate him from his role as an agent for The Company, since you've stated, "that an operative on a government sanctioned or approved operation NEVER uses his real name while engaged in that operation."?

Thanks,

Ter

Ter; Perhaps all of the above. Their names could have been cut outs or perhaps referenced at times as "Jack and Jill". In my case I knew of two persons in CR as John F and Floyd Hull. Were these two the same people or different? I do not or did not know. The picture posted is the Hull who owned the Ranch near the river (can't remember the rivers name) not far from the northern border. The other Hull I was told owned a coffee plantation to the south. However, we did make air drops in the north and also in the south. I know its confusing..... if you think thats bad you should of been there... it was a mess.... here a contra..., there a contra.., everwhere a contra and behind every contra was a CIA officer trying to find a contra.

*************************************************************

I hear ya! Thanks for cluing me in. The CIA are, without a doubt, master practioners in the art of deception.

They maintain their power by playing dirty. Or, maybe we just deserve to be ridden roughshod over, and taken for the peasant rubes they make us out to be. After all, people like Hull, Hunt, Liddy, et. al., cut their teeth and got their merit badges and/or bonafides from those hallowed halls and ivy walls of Yale, Harvard, Georgetown, Wharton, Case Western Reserve, Chicago, etc. Places, us mere mortals sometimes only read about, let alone ever set foot in. How do you fight City Hall? Especially when they have seemingly unlimited reserves of disposable income with which to corner every market and media outlet to their favor. They sure have it made, don't they? And, us? We always come up with the short end of the stick, don't we? Why is that? Because we weren't born stinking rich, that's why. You know how it goes. Money talks, bullxxxx walks.

Hey Tosh, can I call you, Bill?