John Alex McCone: Removed from my website?

[John Simkin]

John, Have you yet found any other attempts to discredit you [that you care to mention] other than the hanky-panky with the Forum [being hacked in various ways] and the general attempts to provide trojan horse information?

No, not directly. However, I fear that if it does happen, they will do a good job on me. As I have some good friends in the media, it will be a risky strategy.

I have been warned my friends that I am in danger of damaging my reputation if I continue to work in this area. I have been interviewed by the Times for an article that will appear in their Saturday magazine in November. It is possible that this will be used to discredit me.

I do know there has been a whispering campaign claiming that I am a CIA disinformation agent. This includes some esteemed members of this forum. However, I believe they have done this because they genuinely believe I am CIA. In fact, if I was running a CIA disinformation campaign I would get an asset to set up a forum like this. It would be a great way to monitor the JFK research community. It would also enable you to find out who is willing to talk. It is no coincidence that JFK researchers like Gus Russo and Gary Mack end up being opposed to conspiracy theories. In reality, they could have been plants from the beginning.

I believe you have to be very careful about what you write. You only have to read John McAdams’ site to see who they pick on. As I said on another thread, I think Joan Mellan was discredited by being fed the Angelo Murgado story. I also think that the Juan Almeida story is an attempt to discredit Lamar Waldron.

I was approached by Judith Baker with her story several years ago. I did not believe her and did not run with it. However, I did invite her to join the forum to face her doubters. She did for a while but soon discovered that a forum is not the best way to push your story. Others like Adele Edison, Manuel Ray, Howard K. Davies, Alfred Baldwin and Gerry Hemming were not willing to stay and answer questions for too long. That does not mean they were lying. There might be very good reasons why they cannot tell their full story on this forum.

Over the last week I have been contacted by two people who have very interesting stories to tell. One concerns a family member, now dead, who is believed to have been involved in the assassination of JFK. I am currently involved in an effort to persuade them to post on the forum what they know about the case.

The second one involves a man who apparently knows a great deal about the Watergate case. None of the names he has given me have not surfaced before. He appears to be very frightened, he believes there have been two attempts to kill him and his wife. Understandably, he is reluctant to post on the forum. Nor is he willing for me to post it on my website. We will have to see how it develops.

[Myra Bronstein]

I do know there has been a whispering campaign claiming that I am a CIA disinformation agent. This includes some esteemed members of this forum. However, I believe they have done this because they genuinely believe I am CIA. In fact, if I was running a CIA disinformation campaign I would get an asset to set up a forum like this. It would be a great way to monitor the JFK research community. It would also enable you to find out who is willing to talk. It is no coincidence that JFK researchers like Gus Russo and Gary Mack end up being opposed to conspiracy theories. In reality, they could have been plants from the beginning.

I believe you have to be very careful about what you write. You only have to read John McAdams’ site to see who they pick on. As I said on another thread, I think Joan Mellan was discredited by being fed the Angelo Murgado story. I also think that the Juan Almeida story is an attempt to discredit Lamar Waldron.

I was approached by Judith Baker with her story several years ago. I did not believe her and did not run with it. However, I did invite her to join the forum to face her doubters. She did for a while but soon discovered that a forum is not the best way to push your story. Others like Adele Edison, Manuel Ray, Howard K. Davies, Alfred Baldwin and Gerry Hemming were not willing to stay and answer questions for too long. That does not mean they were lying. There might be very good reasons why they cannot tell their full story on this forum.

Well, Thanks for that John, and for what it is worth I don't suspect you of being anything but committed to exposing the historic and current puppet-masters and the 'alternative' truth [which is in fact the real truth] of many historical/social events. Russo infitrated my research and did quite a 'number' on my project at the time. Mack I'm agnostic on. I could name others who are definitely disinformation agents. We even have a few on this Forum IMO. Look what happened to Garrison, HSCA, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Warren and 911 Ommissions, and many others....controlled either from the get-go or by dis-information agents/provocateurs and/or dirty tricks. Politicians have been bought by those with money and who really increasingly run the 'show'. This trend has been clear and accelerating from beween the two World Wars up to today. It was ongoing before. One good sign I have seen lately is that even some covert operatives who have done the enforcer work for the Oligarchy, via the intelliegence apparatus, are beginning to increasingly turn on their former masters and break their vows of secrecy out of disgust and a sense of betrayal that what they were doing was not to 'protect' America - as they increasingly can see who benefited and who did not [the American People]. I feel there is so little time in the USA. The Patriot Act gives executive 'privilege' to do anything from cancelling elections to declaration of martial law or even branding anyone a terrorist and thus they can be imprisoned, tortured and never [!] having to be charged nor brought to trial - and other even worse provisions - many still secret! It can all be turned around...but it is, IMO, now or never...and the window of 'now' is not large [ 2-16 years my guess, tops]. What happens in the USA will not immediately effect Europe, but will have a follow-on effect and the same forces are working there too. It will immediately effect those developing nations we try to enslave into the Corporate Machine which IMO is driving the entire insanity. We are up against very big forces and a site like this is monitored most closely, I am SURE! The top 1% in America now owns 70% of all the wealth and that is increasing rapidly. They will not give up their money and power without a fight and they have now almost all the levers of control and coersion. They own the politicians. They can manipulate the elections and long have bought the media. The police and military are theirs and the intelligence agencies their private army. The Democrats are NOT the answer...though they are, generally, slightly the lesser of evils. I hope there is some change on Tuesday and then we can start to get rid of the Democrats and get a host of parties with some independance from the Oligarchs. If not we are soon to be lost and when sometime in the distant future the planet is visited by intelligent life from elsewhere - seeing the smoldering and polluted ruins of a once beautiful and noble planet will see what the greed, avarice, hate (of justice, democracy for other persons and contempt for all life) of a few had done. Persevere!

Just to tell you my own personal experience with Mack, as soon as I started posting on three forums he pelted me with email "correcting" my posts. I saw Wim's thread on Mack at his site so I was on guard. I asked Mack for evidence of his first allegation to me, was informed that I'd have to travel to the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas to see it, and that was all I needed to know. I've since received a few emails from him "correcting" my posts but I ignore them. He clearly patrols multiple forums for newbies that might be guillible.

It was also helpful to me to see Judith Baker's posts here. It saved me some time. So thanks. And John if you're with the CIA then I hope we have more infiltrators like you--who encourage us to think for ourselves and to be careful about who we trust. I wouldn't much trust anyone in forum of this type until they'd been around at least 6 months to a year. That would exclude me then.

Now that the McCone page is back on line: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmccone.htm, check out the picture of President Kennedy with Dulles, Bissell, and McCone. Great googely moogly, only one person to dilute the sinister. Shiver.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Just to tell you my own personal experience with Mack, as soon as I started posting on three forums he pelted me with email "correcting" my posts. I saw Wim's thread on Mack at his site so I was on guard. I asked Mack for evidence of his first allegation to me, was informed that I'd have to travel to the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas to see it, and that was all I needed to know. I've since received a few emails from him "correcting" my posts but I ignore them. He clearly patrols multiple forums for newbies that might be guillible.

Since you've referenced this situation, I for one would be very interested to know exactly what your posts detailed which prompted Gary Mack to respond to you. Do you mind sharing what your post stated, how he corrected you, and then what his subsequent allegations were?

I realize this could all have happened long ago and it's understandable if you no longer have the info. Likewise if you'd rather not share the substance of the encounter.

[Myra Bronstein]

Just to tell you my own personal experience with Mack, as soon as I started posting on three forums he pelted me with email "correcting" my posts. I saw Wim's thread on Mack at his site so I was on guard. I asked Mack for evidence of his first allegation to me, was informed that I'd have to travel to the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas to see it, and that was all I needed to know. I've since received a few emails from him "correcting" my posts but I ignore them. He clearly patrols multiple forums for newbies that might be guillible.

Reply moved to http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry80183 to keep threads on topic.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Myra Bronstein

[John Simkin]

I would rather members posted on Gary Mack here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6492

In that way we can keep this thread about John McCone.

[Myra Bronstein]

Dupe.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Myra Bronstein

[Ashton Gray]

I have also been warned that if post information of this cover-up via the forum or my website I am in danger of being “discredited”. I was told at the same time that the CIA no longer kill people trying to disclose information on covert activities.

"No longer"?

Was someone making an oblique confession to you?

It would seem that for anyone to be able to make such a statement, they:

A. would have specific knowledge of it having been done in the past, and,

B. would have to be in a rather senior position to have any certainty of its...um, "termination."

Of course "Smearing and Discrediting" is one of the chief exports of the intelligence cult and always has been. And nobody does it better.

But if someone has admitted, however obliquely, to past murders by CIA of people "trying to disclose information on covert activities," these are references to premeditated capital felonies without statutes of limitations.

Ashton

[Ashton Gray]

To add to The McCone File, one anomaly in the record is McCone's attendance as "DCI" of two critical and pivotal meetings on 21 and 22 November 1961, contrasted to official CIA records, which claim that McCone did not become DCI until a week later, on 29 November 1961.

Here is a record of the two meetings—a document from CIA Director McCone, with notes and sources:

===============BEGIN DOCUMENT===============

Memorandum for the Record

Washington, November 22, 1961.

//Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (McCone) Files: Job 80-B01285A, Box 5, DCI (McCone), Caribbean Survey Group. Secret; Eyes Only. Drafted by McCone.

Monday, November 20, 1961, 7:00 pm, President Kennedy called personally and asked that I meet with him and Attorney General Robert Kennedy at 4:30 pm the following day.

The meeting was held for the purpose of discussing all possible courses of action in Cuba. Present were:

The President

Robert Kennedy

General Lansdale

Mr. Goodwin of the White House staff.

The President explained that General Lansdale had been engaging in a study of possible action in Cuba, acting under the direction of the Attorney General, and he, the President, desired an immediate plan of action which could be submitted to him within two weeks.

The Attorney General expressed grave concern over Cuba, the necessity for immediate dynamic action, indicating that such action would embody a variety of covert operations, propaganda, all possible actions that would create dissensions within Cuba and would discredit the Castro regime, and political action with members of the OAS in support of the action. He proposed that the Lansdale committee be made up of representatives of CIA, State, USIA and DOD (Lansdale) and that it be organized so that this committee could "cut across" organization channels within the agencies.

McCone's views were solicited and he stated:

a ) That he observed that the Agency and indeed the Administration appeared to be in a condition of "shock" as a result of the happenings in Cuba and, therefore, were doing very little. He supported dynamic action but emphasized that action should not be reckless.

b ) He supported the Lansdale committee concept.

c ) This committee should report to the "5412" group, which he stated was properly organized, met regularly, had senior representation, and was a proper unit to give political guidance to the Lansdale committee and also to evaluate action proposals of the committee.

d ) He proposed that the facilities of all Departments of Government and the CIA be made available to the extent needed, but these facilities be maintained "in place" and that under no circumstances should an attempt be made to "lift" elements of departments or agencies out of their "in place" position and placed under the Lansdale group. He explained that the resources or assets of the departments and the CIA were most extensive and depended upon support, logistics, communications, etc. which were an integral part of the departments and agencies, and if an attempt was made to "lift" certain activities, these activities could not properly function because of lack of support and communication.

The above points seemed to be generally agreed, and it was decided that Robert Kennedy would attend the "5412" committee on Wednesday, November 22nd, to discuss the plan.

McCone advised Robert Kennedy his plans to leave Washington for a few days and offered to revise his travel plans if necessary, but Kennedy felt this not necessary.

The above was discussed in considerably more detail between General Lansdale and McCone in the President's office after the meeting. Lansdale confirmed the possibility that he would be required to go to South Viet Nam as a Special Advisor to President Diem and, therefore, might be available for only two or three weeks. It was therefore obvious that he must be backed up by a very able officer who can take over if Lansdale leaves.

Lansdale then proposed that Mr. James Critchfield be the CIA man on his committee, indicating that Critchfield was a most able and experienced officer.

On Wednesday, November 22nd, all of the above was reviewed at a meeting in Mr. Dulles' office, attended by Mr. Dulles, General Cabell, Mr. Bissell, Mr. Helms, Mr. Kirkpatrick and Mr. McCone. There was general agreement on all the points mentioned above. Mr. Bissell proposed alternate names to Critchfield, feeling Critchfield could not easily be spared from his present responsibilities.

McCone urged that the most able man available be placed at Lansdale's disposal, even at some inconvenience to other operations because in all probability this man, if he won the confidence of the "5412" committee, the Attorney General and the President, would have to fill Lansdale's responsibilities when Lansdale left. McCone left the meeting with the question of the individual unresolved.

===============END DOCUMENT===============

This document also raises questions concerning a notion of seeming popularity that going after Castro was some Robert Kennedy hobby horse that was somehow distanced from President John Kennedy. All that is fodder for another thread, but it is curious that the CIA puts McCone's ascent to DCI a full week later than these records show.

(Now one would expect to see follow in this thread some proffered "reasonable explanations".)

Ashton

Edited November 7, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[Myra Bronstein]

John, Have you yet found any other attempts to discredit you [that you care to mention] other than the hanky-panky with the Forum [being hacked in various ways] and the general attempts to provide trojan horse information?

...

I believe you have to be very careful about what you write. You only have to read John McAdams’ site to see who they pick on. As I said on another thread, I think Joan Mellan was discredited by being fed the Angelo Murgado story. I also think that the Juan Almeida story is an attempt to discredit Lamar Waldron.

...

Which makes it even curiouser that we are told to give our real names on this forum. (And on other JFK forums, not just this one.) I know the stated goal is to make discourse more civilized, but I think it's unavoidable that people also feel exposed. People frequently talk about threats received, yet members are told to use real names. Hm.

I've never been told I have to use my real name in any other forum over the years. I can understand if people wonder about the mandatory exposure in the very forums that have the most genuine cause for concern.

[John Simkin]

I have just had an email from a user of my website to tell me that my page on John McCone has been removed from my website. He is right. Take a look yourself.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmccone.htm

The page has also gone missing from the Google database. This has happened before. For example, my page on Bernardo De Torres.

John McCone is now back in the Google database and is ranked number 2 (Wikipedia is 1st).