Evan Burton Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Tool carrier harness: Harness left on Moon, crop from Apollo 17 image (I can't find the image number right now; I'll find out which one it was)
Dave Greer Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Duane, I was all set to go with the Apollo 12 "fan shadows" that you wanted me to discuss, but in the light of the paragraph below from another thread, what would be the point? It seems the more evidence is presented to counter your argument, the more you believe there is a big cover-up. It is an interesting twist though - the main reason you still believe Apollo was faked is because others believe it wasn't, and are willing to robustly argue their case on an internet forum? I don't think that's your main reason for a moment, maybe you're just letting off steam. If it IS your main reason, you're letting your lack of objectivity cloud your judgement. I notice you are continuing with your accusations of lying while I've tried to keep our discussions on here civil. By doing that, the only reputation you're harming is your own. Look at it from my point of view - I find it very difficult to believe that some anyone who has actually studied the evidence for and against a moon hoax still believes in a conspiracy - do I accuse you of being a xxxx for having your beliefs? Do I accuse you of being blind or dishonest for interpreting the Apollo photos as fakes, rather than genuine? Of course I disagree with your conclusions, but you're entitled to your opinion - just as I'm entitled to mine. Do you know what the main reason is that I still believe Apollo was a hoax ? .... It's because the one's who claim otherwise protest just a bit too much and they lie about this .... and when people protest too much and tell lies and will stop at nothing to shut up their opponents , and will stoop to any low life level to do it , then something is obviously very wrong and the truth is obviously being covered up .... It's people like you and Lamson and Burton and Greer and Waspie_ Dwarf and MID and Phil Plaitt and Jay windley , who prove to me that there is much to hide when it comes to nasa and their bogus Apollo Program . Talking about opinions - IMHO the shadow on the floor could not be caused by the fan-shaped artefact as the geometry of the shadow, artefact and light source don't even come close to matching up. There is other photographic evidence to opint to it not being a shadow from a "fan" either. What is causing it? I don't know. I haven't been able to find a photograph showing the rest of the scene to be able to say with any certainty what it is.
Duane Daman Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 Tool carrier harness: Harness left on Moon, crop from Apollo 17 image (I can't find the image number right now; I'll find out which one it was) Thanks for posting the pictures of the tool harness .... I assumed the straps had a mundane explanation but just wanted to make sure that the disinformation of them being part of a fly system, as stated in Hawkins book, was just more of nasa's stupid misinformation games .... There is not one piece of hoax evidence in that silly book that can't be easily be refuted ... So it was either written by a complete idiot or an nasa disinformation agent ... Gee, I wonder which it could have been ?
Matthew Lewis Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I vote complete idiot. Or were we not voting?
Duane Daman Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 Now back to the subject of this thread .... the anomaly in the Apollo 12 photo ... I borrowed this photo from Jack's site ... I hope he doesn't mind .... For anyone to make the claim that this object is a smudge on the visor is absolutely ridiculous ...and I would say that they are either playing games or lying .... It is very obvious that this anomaly is either some type of stage light or possibly some kind of ceiling fan , by observing the shape of it's four blades ... We have aready discussed the fact that this amomalous object not only changes position but also changes shape in the convex visor reflection , depending on the position of the astronots head and the angle of the camera ... It also creates a shadow of the same pattern on the ground beneath it .... These are things which a smudge on the visor could not possibly do . Matthew ... Your vote for a complete idiot is wrong .... No one on the planet is that stupid ... Well , on second thought , maybe they are ... Look at all the people who fell for nasa's act of landing Apollo astronots on the moon ! Hawkins book is clearly disinformation , whether it was written by a game playing geek or a professional nasa disinformation agent ... but then those are one and the same , aren't they ?
Dave Greer Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Thanks for posting the pictures of the tool harness .... I assumed the straps had a mundane explanation but just wanted to make sure that the disinformation of them being part of a fly system, as stated in Hawkins book, was just more of nasa's stupid misinformation games .... There is not one piece of hoax evidence in that silly book that can't be easily be refuted ... So it was either written by a complete idiot or an nasa disinformation agent ... Gee, I wonder which it could have been ? Duane - how about doing your bit to help prevent other people from being duped into buying his book? You could post a review on Amazon, stating clearly that you believe there were no moon landings, but that Hawkins book was either written by an idiot, or is disinformation. If it stops one more person pouring money into his pocket, I think it would be worth it. After all, would you have bought it if there had been more reviews from HBers slating the book?
Dave Greer Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Hawkins book is clearly disinformation , whether it was written by a game playing geek or a professional nasa disinformation agent ... but then those are one and the same , aren't they ? OK, now we just need to sort out which category Percy, Sibrel, Rene, White, Kaysing etc fall into! (Jack - I don't think you're either a game playing geek or a NASA disinformation agent, I think you're just plain wrong!)
Duane Daman Posted January 18, 2007 Author Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) Percy, Sibrel, Rene, White, Kaysing etc. fall into the catagory of .... CONSPIRACY RESEARCHERS .... And you're the one who is wrong , not Jack ... Especially if you really believe that Apollo 12 visor reflection anomaly is only a smudge on the visor . Edited January 18, 2007 by Duane Daman
Kevin M. West Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 I disagree, that's clearly not a ceiling fan, stage light, or anything else other than a smudge. It never changes size or location relative to the visor even though the astronaut was photographed in different locations. Try to replicate that with a convex mirror and see how far you get.
Craig Lamson Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Percy, Sibrel, Rene, White, Kaysing etc. fall into the catagory of .... CONSPIRACY RESEARCHERS .... And you're the one who is wrong , not Jack ... Especially if you really believe that Apollo 12 visor reflection anomaly is only a smudge on the visor . Crackpots would be more like it. And no its YOU who are wrong again. Just like the crackpot "researchers" above.
Dave Greer Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 There was a similar artefact on Jack Schmitt's visor during Apollo 17. I don't have the time or the inclination to do a similar study on the Apollo 12 visor images - for starters, most of the Apollo 12 images show a small visor due to him being further away. The photos used for the GIF below are AS17-134-20385 and AS17-134-20387. Very briefly, I've rotated and rescaled crops of the helemts from both photos, and used the HS sunshade as a reference point to align both photos. As the GIF gradually changes from one image to another, you see obviously reflected features (massif, flag, sun) change their position - the "smudge" remains in the same place, with the same shape. I'm not trying to steer this thread away from Apollo 12 photos, just using this as an example to show that artefacts that keep the same shape and position, on a convex surface viewed from slightly different perspectives, are highly likely to be on the reflective surface itself, rather than reflections of other objects. The change in perspective between the Apollo 12 photos is even more marked, which makes it even more difficult to think they can be a reflection of an object. If I had a goldfish bowl (or an Apollo helmet!) I could take some photos to show the effect, but I believe this one demonstrates it quite adequately. Back to the Apollo 12 images under discussion - I can see why someone would say the artefact looks like a fan, but examining the evidence in 7 or 8 photos leads me to the conclusion that it is on the surface of the visor, rather than a reflection. In that case, a smudge is a very good candidate.
Duane Daman Posted January 20, 2007 Author Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) The Apollo 17 photo you posted above clearly shows a spotlight , not a smudge .... And the Apollo 12 photo I posted shows a stage light or fan blades , not a smudge ... And the word "crackpot" is as old as Herr lamson is , and just as ridiculous as he is also ..... Is that the best you can do lamson ? .... How about throw a little "claptrap" in there too like nasa spokesman Brian Welsh did in the documentary that blew nasa's faked moon missions right out of the water . I now undertand why Herr lamson lies for nasa but what about the rest of you ? ... Gullible geeks or paid disinformation agents , you all act the same . Edited January 20, 2007 by Duane Daman
Craig Lamson Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 The Apollo 17 photo you posted above clearly shows a spotlight , not a smudge .... And the Apollo 12 photo I posted shows a stage light or fan blades , not a smudge ... And the word "crackpot" is as old as Herr lamson is , and just as ridiculous as he is also ..... Is that the best you can do lamson ? .... How about throw a little "claptrap" in there too like nasa spokesman Brian Welsh did in the documentary that blew nasa's faked moon missions right out of the water .I now undertand why Herr lamson lies for nasa but what about the rest of you ? ... Gullible geeks or paid disinformation agents , you all act the same . No, crackpot is the PERFECT word, look it up, and it fits YOU even better. You live in a fantasy world Duane....
Duane Daman Posted January 20, 2007 Author Posted January 20, 2007 Speaking of looking up words , two can play that game ... Look up Moon Nazi ... those would be the PERFECT words to describe you ... along with a few others I won't mention ... but I'm sure you get my drift . The only fantasy world here would be nasa's fairy tale of landing men on the moon ... The Apollo photos are so fake they are laughable .
Craig Lamson Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 The Apollo photos are so fake they are laughable . How would you know? Your ignorance in the art,craft and science of photography is quite evident for all to see. All you have is the fantasy playing out in your head.
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