John Dolva Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 http://www.swlink.net/~hoboh/foster/pages/...zareDrawing.htm "What Damage To The Skull From A Non-Exiting Bullet Looks Like The image below is from a page on gunshot wounds at a University of Florida web site9 illustrating a penetrating gunshot wound to the head. Note the comminuted ('grossly splintered') fractures in the skull where the bullet impacted before rebounding into the head." note the torn Dura Mater ________________________ Top of head Top left: an intact Dura Mater superimposed on the autopsy photo. Top right: colorised top head photo Lower image: Hair plastered back around a hole on the left, torn Dura, Comminuted fracture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Hello John Am I reading the depiction correctly that "this bullet" entered the left frontal area, travelled thru the brain and fractured from the interior of the skull, the rear parietal area, blew a section of the parietal skull outward, caused other "egg shell type skull fractures, and then deflected and remained in the brain? If this is true, it simulates the behavior of a small caliber low energy bullet such as a .22 cal LR., which is extremely deadly in head wounds, because it bounces arond within the skull without emerging, like a "pin ball", and causes massive internal damage. The primary reasons that I am asking are twofold: 1) The bullet depicted appears to be much larger than a .22 cal. 2) It is likely that a larger caliber, higher energy bullet would have either a) exited the skull or fragmented within the skull leaving many fragmented particles within the lacerated brain. Thanks Charlie Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 Hi Charles, as far as I can see from reading that website, the drawing is merely illustrative and not prescice. So it's really only the concept that realates to the autopsy photos. (It also struck me the way the Dura Mater is penetrated and pushed aside like in the autopsy photos.) If something like this happened with Kennedy then the bullet entered front left of the centre of the top of the head angling down to the ear. And , yes the bullet would have fragmented and the directional force and the fractures precipitated by the initial strike and the strike of fragments on the inside of the skull weakens the skull. The gross fragmentation or comminution of the skull then happens in the line of force that the bullet and its fragments travel along, creating the out fold of bone and the gutter type wound in between, tearing the scalp, and then the explosive cavitation ejecting bone and tissue. If so, fragments could then penetrate outside and also ricochet within the skull and do such things as travel down the neck, scribe a circle along the inside of the skull and lodge under a flap of tissue as seen in the open skull photo, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thank you John A very informative response. I hope that this thread will be well read and studied. A majority of forum members do not know, primarily because they have never been involved with bullet wound ballistics, of the various possibilities which bullets of differing sizes and energy might produce within a skull....also that the exact angle of entry plays a significant role in the type of wound which is inflicted. We are dealing with so many variables, that true experts in this field are stymied. Some of these complex problems include...the number of bullets which struck....the exact strike angle....the size of the bullet.....the force of the bullet...which bullet struck first and where did this bullet strike...the type of bullet / bullets (frangible, semi frangible, jacketed )....and many other unknowns. We however of course have been forced to work with forged or altered photographs and xrays.....a brain which disappeared (the only brain of a "Head of State" to DISAPPEAR since the beginning of time)... drastically conflicting testimony of "expert witnesses" at two medical centers...a burned original autopsy report...an un-sectioned brain ( before it later disappeared)....the inability of "medical experts" to trace bullet paths...disappearing bullet fragments etc. Not to mention an 8mm assassination film that depicts victim movements which medical experts claim are not the result of a bullet strike or strikes. Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations ...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed. We also know that since absolutely NOTHING captured on 8mm film answers any of these questions, it has produced what I believe to be the MOST "unbelievable" of hundreds of very nearly inconceivable COINCIDENCES. My very personal opinion, and I can't substantiate it, is that any of you who, are and have been, dependent on the Z film to provide you answers that will solve this "mystery?", had best not quit your day jobs. My apologies for expandng this topic. It was not my original intention. Occasionally, passion overcomes me ! Charlie Black Charlie Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thank you John A very informative response. I hope that this thread will be well read and studied. A majority of forum members do not know, primarily because they have never been involved with bullet wound ballistics, of the various possibilities which bullets of differing sizes and energy might produce within a skull....also that the exact angle of entry plays a significant role in the type of wound which is inflicted. We are dealing with so many variables, that true experts in this field are stymied. Some of these complex problems include...the number of bullets which struck....the exact strike angle....the size of the bullet.....the force of the bullet...which bullet struck first and where did this bullet strike...the type of bullet / bullets (frangible, semi frangible, jacketed )....and many other unknowns. We however of course have been forced to work with forged or altered photographs and xrays.....a brain which disappeared (the only brain of a "Head of State" to DISAPPEAR since the beginning of time)... drastically conflicting testimony of "expert witnesses" at two medical centers...a burned original autopsy report...an un-sectioned brain ( before it later disappeared)....the inability of "medical experts" to trace bullet paths...disappearing bullet fragments etc. Not to mention an 8mm assassination film that depicts victim movements which medical experts claim are not the result of a bullet strike or strikes. Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations ...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed. We also know that since absolutely NOTHING captured on 8mm film answers any of these questions, it has produced what I believe to be the MOST "unbelievable" of hundreds of very nearly inconceivable COINCIDENCES. My very personal opinion, and I can't substantiate it, is that any of you who, are and have been, dependent on the Z film to provide you answers that will solve this "mystery?", had best not quit your day jobs. My apologies for expandng this topic. It was not my original intention. Occasionally, passion overcomes me ! Charlie Black Charlie Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Marshall Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thank you JohnA very informative response. I hope that this thread will be well read and studied. A majority of forum members do not know, primarily because they have never been involved with bullet wound ballistics, of the various possibilities which bullets of differing sizes and energy might produce within a skull....also that the exact angle of entry plays a significant role in the type of wound which is inflicted. We are dealing with so many variables, that true experts in this field are stymied. Some of these complex problems include...the number of bullets which struck....the exact strike angle....the size of the bullet.....the force of the bullet...which bullet struck first and where did this bullet strike...the type of bullet / bullets (frangible, semi frangible, jacketed )....and many other unknowns. We however of course have been forced to work with forged or altered photographs and xrays.....a brain which disappeared (the only brain of a "Head of State" to DISAPPEAR since the beginning of time)... drastically conflicting testimony of "expert witnesses" at two medical centers...a burned original autopsy report...an un-sectioned brain ( before it later disappeared)....the inability of "medical experts" to trace bullet paths...disappearing bullet fragments etc. Not to mention an 8mm assassination film that depicts victim movements which medical experts claim are not the result of a bullet strike or strikes. Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations ...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed. We also know that since absolutely NOTHING captured on 8mm film answers any of these questions, it has produced what I believe to be the MOST "unbelievable" of hundreds of very nearly inconceivable COINCIDENCES. My very personal opinion, and I can't substantiate it, is that any of you who, are and have been, dependent on the Z film to provide you answers that will solve this "mystery?", had best not quit your day jobs. My apologies for expandng this topic. It was not my original intention. Occasionally, passion overcomes me ! Charlie Black Charlie Black an even bigger problem is that we don't know near as much about ballistics as we often think we know. I've seen any number large caliber handguns glance of the skull and ride around the outside under the skin. evan marshall www.stoppingpower.net www.marshallsshootingcenter.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed. Codswollop. It is CERTAIN beyond any rational doubt that John Connally was struck by a bullet fired from behind that entered his back near the right armpit. It is CERTAIN beyond any rational doubt that John F. Kennedy was struck by a projectile fired from behind that entered his back. It is CERTAIN beyond any rational doubt that the throat wound was not caused by any projectile whatsoever, the impossibility of which has been demonstrated repeatedly. The primary uncertainty remaining regarding wounds is the origin of the head wound, and given the CERTAINTY of two CERTAIN shots from behind, positing a shooter location for the head shot other than the one from which the two CERTAIN back wounds originated is wandering far. There is zero compelling or dispositive evidence that the head shot had to have originated anywhere other than from where the CERTAIN back shots originated. Zero. Ashton Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Ashton I cannot decide whether you are truly denser than wet dirt or whether your thinking is completely convoluted. You seldom if ever express any CERTAINTY ! Please now...this is too much You state "there is zero compelling or dipositive evidence that the head shot had to have originated anywhere other than from where the CERTAIN back shots originated " RIDICULOUS I could say there is no compelling........that the throat shot originated anywhere other than from where the frontal head shot originated. But WHY would I want to say such a stupid thing.....just for the hell of it? That is what you did ! FROM WHAT SOURCE do you derive "that the throat wound was not caused by any projectile whatsoever....." You have apparently lost your marbles or you believe most members of this forum to be stupid, insane, or very drunk ! ANOTHER BEAUTY---A PRIZE WINNER ".....positing a shooter location for the head shot other than the one from which the two certain back wounds originating is wandering far." Ashton methinks that you have possibly wandered too far from your bottle....or your meds ! Why do you repeatedly post nonsense and refer to it as fact and certainty? Charlie Black Edited January 25, 2007 by Charles Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thank you JohnA very informative response. I hope that this thread will be well read and studied. A majority of forum members do not know, primarily because they have never been involved with bullet wound ballistics, of the various possibilities which bullets of differing sizes and energy might produce within a skull....also that the exact angle of entry plays a significant role in the type of wound which is inflicted. We are dealing with so many variables, that true experts in this field are stymied. Some of these complex problems include...the number of bullets which struck....the exact strike angle....the size of the bullet.....the force of the bullet...which bullet struck first and where did this bullet strike...the type of bullet / bullets (frangible, semi frangible, jacketed )....and many other unknowns. We however of course have been forced to work with forged or altered photographs and xrays.....a brain which disappeared (the only brain of a "Head of State" to DISAPPEAR since the beginning of time)... drastically conflicting testimony of "expert witnesses" at two medical centers...a burned original autopsy report...an un-sectioned brain ( before it later disappeared)....the inability of "medical experts" to trace bullet paths...disappearing bullet fragments etc. Not to mention an 8mm assassination film that depicts victim movements which medical experts claim are not the result of a bullet strike or strikes. Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations ...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed. We also know that since absolutely NOTHING captured on 8mm film answers any of these questions, it has produced what I believe to be the MOST "unbelievable" of hundreds of very nearly inconceivable COINCIDENCES. My very personal opinion, and I can't substantiate it, is that any of you who, are and have been, dependent on the Z film to provide you answers that will solve this "mystery?", had best not quit your day jobs. My apologies for expandng this topic. It was not my original intention. Occasionally, passion overcomes me ! Charlie Black Charlie Black an even bigger problem is that we don't know near as much about ballistics as we often think we know. I've seen any number large caliber handguns glance of the skull and ride around the outside under the skin. evan marshall www.stoppingpower.net www.marshallsshootingcenter.com Hello Evan I have two of your books and often refer to them. Yes, bullets do some strange things. I even heard of a 158 gr. .38 SP. actually bouncing off someones forehead with no penetration. I imagine it did leave a whopper of a headache ! Charlie Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thank's for all the contributions. Partially this is an attempt to look at some 'anomalies' that don't seem to be dealt with anywhere, such as the 'blowhole' on the front left of the whole wound, the punctured dura, and the folded out bones above the ear. As these things appear to occur perpendicularly to the usual trajectory suspects they don't seem to be particularly important. The fact that they occur inline with each other and according to the site above could have a real explanation and when applying that explanation a number of other issues are automatically dealt with is at least interesting. It does also concern wound ballistics. It seems to me to require a supersonic slug which fragments. ______________________________________ I've read of a person surviving being shot point blanc with a magnum (which magnum I've no idea) in the back of the head, the bullet scribing an arc along the inside of the skull, missing the brain and exiting in the forehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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