Kevin M. West Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Dish antennas are highly directional. Wether it was visual or radio, they absolutely did track the missions on the way to the moon. It's impossible for anything other than a mission on its way to the moon to track like a mission on the way to the moon, it's basic orbital mechanics. It would have been incredibly obvious if the transmissions were coming from somewhere other than where the dish was pointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Oh come Kevin , surley you can do better than this lame stuff . Radio signals have been bounced OFF of the moon long before nasa ever pretended to land men there .... Plus , there is no way to tell if a signal is coming FROM the moon or being bounced OFF of the moon .... So I guess that that little theory just went up in flames ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ulman Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Oh come Kevin , surley you can do better than this lame stuff .Radio signals have been bounced OFF of the moon long before nasa ever pretended to land men there .... Plus , there is no way to tell if a signal is coming FROM the moon or being bounced OFF of the moon .... So I guess that that little theory just went up in flames ! Just one more item to add to the list of things straydog knows nothing about - RADIO. not onlu did the ham's listen in when they were orbiting the moon, they did so during the trans lunar portions of the mission. Also, I do hope you realize that based on your most recent post, you acknowledge that your claim that "and ham operators who have NEVER come forward with any evidence that they listened in on the Apollo transmissions" was totally false and without merit? In other words a complete FANTASY! Edited February 7, 2007 by Steve Ulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Oh come Kevin , surley you can do better than this lame stuff .Radio signals have been bounced OFF of the moon long before nasa ever pretended to land men there .... Plus , there is no way to tell if a signal is coming FROM the moon or being bounced OFF of the moon .... So I guess that that little theory just went up in flames ! Oh come on Duane, you just don't understand any of this do you? The path taken to get to the moon isn't a straight line between earth and the moon. If it was, the moon would have moved by the time you got there. For most of the flight out and back, the antennas would have to be pointed AWAY from the moon to pick up the signal. So what would they bounce it off of? And how would they eliminate the extra delay that would be created by sending it from earth? Besides, I doubt you could bounce a usable communications signal off the moon. Maybe a radar ping, but not voice and video signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And the doppler of the radio waves would be affected if they had been bounced off the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Wrong again guys .... Radio signals can , are , and have been bounced OFF of the moon since the 1940's . Read these links . Space&Beyond: Moonbounce Advances the State of the Radio Art http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2002/01/21/1/ From Moonbounce to Hard Drives: Correcting More Errors Than Previously Thought Possible http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.j...256&org=NSF The Bromley and District Amateur Radio Society/Bouncing signals off the moon by Anchorage Daily News http://www.bdars.org/genesis/EME0606.html Radio hams bouncing off the moon http://www.abc.net.au/ballarat/stories/s978542.htm And here's the best of all of them all ... Steve was right .... Ham operators DID listen in on the Apollo transmsions ... being BOUNCED OFF OF THE MOON ! THE ARTEMIS PROJECT Bouncing Radio Signals Off the Moon The S band (2290 MHz) signals from the Apollo missions at the moon were monitored by amateur radio operators around the world. How is this possible? It was relatively easy. There is a class of radio amateur operators that use what is called "Moonbounce" communications. This consists of a large transmitter here on Earth beaming a signal to the moon that literally "bounces" off the moon. As you may imagine the signal strength is exceedingly small, allowing in even the best circumstances, only Morse code and on occasion voice communications. Since the transmitters on Apollo were in the tens of watts, their power was thousands of times greater than a signal that has to make the trip to the moon and back. There is an entire British organization that monitors military satellite launches and communications. This was a second group. If you want more information on this you might contact the UK Amateur Radio Satellite organization. Another resource is a gentleman from Canada, whose call letters are VE3ONT. You can find his address through the Canadian Communications commission. http://www.asi.org/adb/m/03/12/moonbounce.html Edited February 8, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Wrong again guys .... Radio signals can , are , and have been bounced OFF of the moon since the 1940's .Read these links . Space&Beyond: Moonbounce Advances the State of the Radio Art http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2002/01/21/1/ From Moonbounce to Hard Drives: Correcting More Errors Than Previously Thought Possible http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.j...256&org=NSF The Bromley and District Amateur Radio Society/Bouncing signals off the moon by Anchorage Daily News http://www.bdars.org/genesis/EME0606.html Radio hams bouncing off the moon http://www.abc.net.au/ballarat/stories/s978542.htm And here's the best of all of them all ... Steve was right .... Ham operators DID listen in on the Apollo transmsions ... being BOUNCED OFF OF THE MOON ! THE ARTEMIS PROJECT Bouncing Radio Signals Off the Moon The S band (2290 MHz) signals from the Apollo missions at the moon were monitored by amateur radio operators around the world. How is this possible? It was relatively easy. There is a class of radio amateur operators that use what is called "Moonbounce" communications. This consists of a large transmitter here on Earth beaming a signal to the moon that literally "bounces" off the moon. As you may imagine the signal strength is exceedingly small, allowing in even the best circumstances, only Morse code and on occasion voice communications. Since the transmitters on Apollo were in the tens of watts, their power was thousands of times greater than a signal that has to make the trip to the moon and back. There is an entire British organization that monitors military satellite launches and communications. This was a second group. If you want more information on this you might contact the UK Amateur Radio Satellite organization. Another resource is a gentleman from Canada, whose call letters are VE3ONT. You can find his address through the Canadian Communications commission. http://www.asi.org/adb/m/03/12/moonbounce.html You didn't understand a bit of this did you Duane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 As you may imagine the signal strength is exceedingly small, allowing in even the best circumstances, only Morse code and on occasion voice communications. We're not talking incredibly weak morse code or voice here, we're talking full motion video, coming in at all times of day and night. So now you're claiming that nasa had a network of giant transmitters hidden around the world too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) You both claimed that radio signals could not be bounced off of the moon ... I only proved that they could be ... What's not to understand ? I guess trying to make me look completely uninformed is also a distraction tactic to get away from the real issue . nasa could very well have bounced signals off of the moon , both radio transmissions and also TV signals . You do realize that the TV signal the world saw was fourth generation , right ? ... Bounced from the moon ... First , received in Austrialia ... Second, relayed onto Goldstone in America where it was converted to slow scan from 60 frames per minute to 30 frames per minute ( slow motion anyone ? ) ...Third , sent onto the back room at mission control in Houston and then ... Fourth , finally projected onto a screen for mission control and the rest of the world to see .... The black and white grainy, ghostly images that everyone saw didn't really have to look like that if nasa had allowed the TV stations to have a direct feed .... but nasa insisted in having COMPLETE CONTROL of the TV picture and cut the TV stations out of the loop ... Something which had never been done before in TV broadcasting .... Just like they cut Jodrell Bank out of the loop so NO ONE would be allowed to track any of the Apollo craft to the moon .... When it came to the Apollo missions , nasa had complete control over everything .... Including scaming the entire world . Edited February 9, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 You both claimed that radio signals could not be bounced off of the moon ... I only proved that they could be ... What's not to understand ? No, I said a communications signal could not be bounced off the moon. Sure you could bounce some morse code, or some low bandwidth voice, but the infrastructure to bounce tv signals off the moon did not exist, let alone the capability to do it without adding additional delay that would be very obvious in the 2 way conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Lewis Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 You do realize that the TV signal the world saw was fourth generation , right ? ... Bounced from the moon ... First , received in Austrialia ... Second, relayed onto Goldstone in America where it was converted to slow scan from 60 frames per minute to 30 frames per minute ( slow motion anyone ? ) ...Third , sent onto the back room at mission control in Houston and then ... Fourth , finally projected onto a screen for mission control and the rest of the world to see .... I assume you mean frames per second right? But still the number of frames are wrong. It was filmed and transmitted at 10 frames per second and was still 10 frames per second when broadcast in mission control. It had to be filmed off a screen because there was no convertor available to change it to the 30 frames per second need for TV. The black and white grainy, ghostly images that everyone saw didn\'t really have to look like that if nasa had allowed the TV stations to have a direct feed .... but nasa insisted in having COMPLETE CONTROL of the TV picture and cut the TV stations out of the loop ... Something which had never been done before in TV broadcasting .... Just like they cut Jodrell Bank out of the loop so NO ONE would be allowed to track any of the Apollo craft to the moon .... When it came to the Apollo missions , nasa had complete control over everything .... Including scaming the entire world . As stated above, because of the difference in frame rates, they couldn\'t have a direct feed. Filming off of a screen was the easiest way to do it. But that was only done with Apollo 11. The other missions did not need to be filmed off of a screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 You both claimed that radio signals could not be bounced off of the moon ... I only proved that they could be ... What's not to understand ? No, I said a communications signal could not be bounced off the moon. Sure you could bounce some morse code, or some low bandwidth voice, but the infrastructure to bounce tv signals off the moon did not exist, let alone the capability to do it without adding additional delay that would be very obvious in the 2 way conversations. I stated that radio signals could be bounced off of the moon ... You and Evan said they couldn't be ... I proved you wrong . nasa had 30 billion dollars to work with ... I'm sure they would have had no trouble making it appear that the TV signals were coming from the moon when they weren't . Oh and speaking of delay ... There was absolutely no delay on many of the mission control to the moon set voice transmissions .... Also proving that no one broadcased anything FROM the moon , 240,000 miles out in deep space . You nasa fans really do live is quite a fantasy world , don't you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 You do realize that the TV signal the world saw was fourth generation , right ? ... Bounced from the moon ... First , received in Austrialia ... Second, relayed onto Goldstone in America where it was converted to slow scan from 60 frames per minute to 30 frames per minute ( slow motion anyone ? ) ...Third , sent onto the back room at mission control in Houston and then ... Fourth , finally projected onto a screen for mission control and the rest of the world to see .... I assume you mean frames per second right? But still the number of frames are wrong. It was filmed and transmitted at 10 frames per second and was still 10 frames per second when broadcast in mission control. It had to be filmed off a screen because there was no convertor available to change it to the 30 frames per second need for TV. The black and white grainy, ghostly images that everyone saw didn\'t really have to look like that if nasa had allowed the TV stations to have a direct feed .... but nasa insisted in having COMPLETE CONTROL of the TV picture and cut the TV stations out of the loop ... Something which had never been done before in TV broadcasting .... Just like they cut Jodrell Bank out of the loop so NO ONE would be allowed to track any of the Apollo craft to the moon .... When it came to the Apollo missions , nasa had complete control over everything .... Including scaming the entire world .As stated above, because of the difference in frame rates, they couldn\'t have a direct feed. Filming off of a screen was the easiest way to do it. But that was only done with Apollo 11. The other missions did not need to be filmed off of a screen. Yes, I did mean per second ... Sorry , I was in a hurry ..... Here's how the Apollo footage from the 'moon' was filmed . "Bill Wood is a highly qualified scientist and has degrees in mathematics, physics and chemistry, and a space rocket and propulsion engineer. He has been granted high security clearance for a number of top secret projects and has worked with Macdonald Douglas and engineers who worked on the Saturn 5 rocket (the Apollo launch vehicle). He worked at Goldstone as a Communications Engineer during the Apollo missions. Goldstone in California, USA, were responsible for receiving and distributing the pictures sent from the Apollo to Houston. He says early video machines were used to record the NASA footage here on Earth by the TV networks. They received the FM carrier signal on Earth, ran it through an FM demodulator and processed it in an RCA scan converter that took the slow scan signal and converted it to the US standard black and white TV signal. The film was then sent onto Houston. When they were converting from slow scan to fast scan, RCA used disc and scan recorders as a memory and it played back the same video several times until it got an updated picture. In other words the signal was recorded onto video one then converted to video two. Movie film runs at 30 frames per second, whereas video film runs at 60 frames per second. So in other words the footage that most people saw that they thought was 'live' wasn't, and was actually 50% slower than the original footage!!! " http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 You both claimed that radio signals could not be bounced off of the moon ... I only proved that they could be ... What's not to understand ? No, I said a communications signal could not be bounced off the moon. Sure you could bounce some morse code, or some low bandwidth voice, but the infrastructure to bounce tv signals off the moon did not exist, let alone the capability to do it without adding additional delay that would be very obvious in the 2 way conversations. I stated that radio signals could be bounced off of the moon ... You and Evan said they couldn't be ... I proved you wrong . nasa had 30 billion dollars to work with ... I'm sure they would have had no trouble making it appear that the TV signals were coming from the moon when they weren't . Oh and speaking of delay ... There was absolutely no delay on many of the mission control to the moon set voice transmissions .... Also proving that no one broadcased anything FROM the moon , 240,000 miles out in deep space . You nasa fans really do live is quite a fantasy world , don't you ? Please quote where I said radio couldn't be bounced off the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Wrong again guys .... Radio signals can , are , and have been bounced OFF of the moon since the 1940's .Read these links . Space&Beyond: Moonbounce Advances the State of the Radio Art http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2002/01/21/1/ From Moonbounce to Hard Drives: Correcting More Errors Than Previously Thought Possible http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.j...256&org=NSF The Bromley and District Amateur Radio Society/Bouncing signals off the moon by Anchorage Daily News http://www.bdars.org/genesis/EME0606.html Radio hams bouncing off the moon http://www.abc.net.au/ballarat/stories/s978542.htm And here's the best of all of them all ... Steve was right .... Ham operators DID listen in on the Apollo transmsions ... being BOUNCED OFF OF THE MOON ! THE ARTEMIS PROJECT Bouncing Radio Signals Off the Moon The S band (2290 MHz) signals from the Apollo missions at the moon were monitored by amateur radio operators around the world. How is this possible? It was relatively easy. There is a class of radio amateur operators that use what is called "Moonbounce" communications. This consists of a large transmitter here on Earth beaming a signal to the moon that literally "bounces" off the moon. As you may imagine the signal strength is exceedingly small, allowing in even the best circumstances, only Morse code and on occasion voice communications. Since the transmitters on Apollo were in the tens of watts, their power was thousands of times greater than a signal that has to make the trip to the moon and back. There is an entire British organization that monitors military satellite launches and communications. This was a second group. If you want more information on this you might contact the UK Amateur Radio Satellite organization. Another resource is a gentleman from Canada, whose call letters are VE3ONT. You can find his address through the Canadian Communications commission. http://www.asi.org/adb/m/03/12/moonbounce.html You didn't understand a bit of this did you Duane? I understood it just fine ... Did you ? .. It looks like your friend Kevin doesn't understand that nasa obviously found a way to bounce some TV signals off of the moon though ... and some radio transmissions also .. By the way , I just love your new picture .... Haven't you lost a bit of weight ? ... You might want to rethink the cap thing though and put it back on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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