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Although Mr. Dolva has attempted to elicit followup on the activities of such, for those who wish to find many of the answers, this would be a worthwhile avenue to pursue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_White_Camelia

Knights of the White Camelia

It was similar to and associated with the Ku Klux Klan. However, unlike the Klan, which drew much of its membership from lower-class southerners (primarily confederate veterans), the White Camelia consisted mainly of southerners who were or had been from the upper part of antebellum society. Its members were called Brothers and Knights

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Ku_Klux_Klan

The most important orders were the Ku Klux Klan and the Knights of the White Camelia.

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http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0859144.html

In the Lower South the Knights of the White Camelia were dominant. That order, founded (1867) in Louisiana, is reputed to have had even more members than the Ku Klux Klan, but its membership was more conservative and its actions less spectacular. It had a similar divisional organization, with headquarters in New Orleans.

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http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/VAN_VIR/VIGI..._COMMITTEE.html

," and besides these there were the Ku-Klux-Klan (q.v.) and its branches; the Knights of the White Camelia,

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Name: VIGILANCE INCORPORATED

Type Entity: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)

Status: Not Active (Action by Secretary of State)

2006 Annual Report/Reinstatement form is required in order to reinstate Print Annual Report/Reinstatement Form For Filing

Mailing Address: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Domicile Address: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Principal Office: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Qualified: 03/16/1951

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR., 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): SUMTER D. MARKS, JR., 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): LOUIS B. CLAVERIE, 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

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Much gratitude to you Tom, for continuing to move this along. It's almost impossible from this end to get hold of significant info But bit by bit the puzzle pieces are becoming available. I wonder what you would say to "I think Myron Wayne "Jack' Seale as Grand Knighthawk, Wray Gill, and Murphy Duncan are of particular interest.'

__________________________________

Also, and this is right out of left field with no supporting evidence except the occasional reference to him as a 'Giant', what to say about Garrison?

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Much gratitude to you Tom, for continuing to move this along. It's almost impossible from this end to get hold of significant info But bit by bit the puzzle pieces are becoming available. I wonder what you would say to "I think Myron Wayne "Jack' Seale as Grand Knighthawk, Wray Gill, and Murphy Duncan are of particular interest.'

__________________________________

Also, and this is right out of left field with no supporting evidence except the occasional reference to him as a 'Giant', what to say about Garrison?

John;

The "McComb" grouping and activities were provided merely to demonstrate the background/environment of certain individuals.

McComb was a focal point of KKK activities as early as mid-1962.

These were the "good ole boys", who could not even keep their names out of the press and who's activities became quite well known.

The more educated, such as the White Camelias, learned how to abort the integration efforts during the occupation of New Orleans by Federal troops during the Civil War.

The organization which survived this, learned well how to work on the cellular level in order to avoid detection and exposure, as well as any actions by the Fedearal Occupation Forces.

The Knights of the White Camelia, which later became basically the "White League", is what was keeping integration as well as black voter efforts down throughout much of Louisiana, and even in the edge of bordering Mississippi, Arkansas, and Texas.

And, not unlike the cellular structure of organized crime, those directing, seldom got their hands dirty or were even exposed.

"Generals" long ago ceased to lead the troops into battle. Too many Generals got shot!

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http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/usa_kkk.htm

LOUISIANA. LEGISLATURE. JOINT COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES. Activities of the "Ku Klux Klan" and certain other organizations in Louisiana: hearings held June 16, 1965. Baton Rouge, Louis., U.S.A.: [s.n.], (Report; 7), 1965. 89 p., illus., 23 cm.

Ku Klux Klan (1915-....) - Knights of the White Camelia - Robert E. Lee Patriots.

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http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/oswald/index.asp

His name was his father's and grandfather's, after all. The Oswald family tree dated back to colonial times. He'd learned as a child that he was a fifth or sixth cousin of Gen. Robert E. Lee, which explained why he had been named Robert Edward Lee Oswald Jr., and his little brother Lee Harvey Oswald. To change his name would have amounted to a betrayal of his heritage, he believed.

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Name: FOR AMERICA

Type Entity: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)

Status: Not Active (Action by Secretary of State)

2006 Annual Report/Reinstatement form is required in order to reinstate Print Annual Report/Reinstatement Form For Filing

Mailing Address: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604

Domicile Address: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604

Principal Office: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604

Principal Bus. Est. in Louisiana:

Qualified: 07/14/1954

Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR., 321 ST. CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): SUMTER D. MARKS, JR., 321 ST CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): LOUIS B. CLAVERIE, 321 ST. CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: VIGILANCE INCORPORATED

Type Entity: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)

Status: Not Active (Action by Secretary of State)

2006 Annual Report/Reinstatement form is required in order to reinstate Print Annual Report/Reinstatement Form For Filing

Mailing Address: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Domicile Address: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Principal Office: 100 W 10TH ST, WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Qualified: 03/16/1951

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR., 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): SUMTER D. MARKS, JR., 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Registered Agent (Appointed 3/16/1951): LOUIS B. CLAVERIE, 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

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Name: Sumter Davis MARKS

Title: Jr.

Sex: M

Occupation: Lawyer

Birth: 16 DEC 1891 in New Orleans, La.

Death: 01 DEC 1985 in New Orleans, La.

Burial: METAIRIE, LA. Metairie Cemetery

Father: Sumter Davis MARKS b: 29 AUG 1861 in New Orleans, La.

Mother: Janey Woods WALDO b: 1857

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John;

Hope you appreciate exactly how much time and searching it took to find these kinds of books.

And, not unlike most things in life, one must have some indication of what it is that he is looking for if he has any hope of finding it.

Sumter Davis Marks (Sr.):---Named for Ft. Sumter, SC. First shot fired in the Civil War. P. G. T. Beauregard of New Orleans, LA the "Southern" hero of the conclict.

Malvern Hill Marks: Brother to Sumter Davis Marks, (Sr.), Uncle to Sumpter Davis Marks,(Jr.). Named after Battle of "Malvern Hill" (Battle of Poindexter's Farm) in which his Uncle, Captain Henry Clay Marks, Commanding Officer, Company "B"

10th Louisiana Infantry, was killed.

Maternal cousins include:

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http://www.notarialarchives.org/custod.htm

One of the most important twentieth century custodians was Rudolph H. Waldo (1944-1948 and 1952-1956), who oversaw and continued major book rebinding projects first undertaken by the Work Projects Administration during the late 1930s. Following the term of Mr. Waldo,

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Certainly appears that someone would have had a "central control" point as to exactly "who's zooming who" if they had direct access to each and every "CORPORATION" filing made in the state.

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http://nutrias.org/~nopl/inv/neh/nehva.htm

The list of "notaries who acted in the capacity of City Notary," compiled by Guy J. Seghers and published in Rudolph H. Waldo's guide to the Notarial Archives,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Tom, do you know at all whether there was any family connection betweeen Francis E. Townsend (image right 1936) and Jimmy P. Wilson (image left 1964.) The apparent similarity jumped out at me when reading 'Under Cover' the story of an infiltrator into the America First groupings.

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Tom, do you know at all whether there was any family connection betweeen Francis E. Townsend (image right 1936) and Jimmy P. Wilson (image left 1964.) The apparent similarity jumped out at me when reading 'Under Cover' the story of an infiltrator into the America First groupings.

Have not done any work along this lines as the New Orleans crowd has certainly occupied my time.

They could certainly pass for father & son based on the photo's.

Lastly, the trail of "America First Committee" to the later day "For America" organization, is certainly one of the right-wing isolationist, as well as a few sprinklings of other political philosophies.

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Thank you Tom. The Townsend photo is from a group photo of Gerald L K Smith and Father Coughlin and Townsend in Cleveland 1936. If you come acrosss any other reason to consider JP Wilson related please let me know.

Meanwhile I am gathering all this information in this and the other threads to do a visit to a Uni Library which has a large collection of relevant literature and electronic resources to work through. So while not actually commenting much, 'I'm on the case'. Though it can take a full day to come up with virtually nothing. I'm beginning to see a pattern here in the development of American Militant Right that perhaps should not be regarded as a growth of Fascism in the classical sense. There was a rise of desegregationist fervour that suddenly petered out after the assassination and some participants spoke/wrote of the period following 1963/64 as a stage having been completed and the form of their associations transforming. A very interesting time. Trying to stretch the connections back to pre pearl harbour, and to 'the ususal suspects' there, is one of the hardest things.

Truman, the EinsatzGruppen Kommando SS SD, Ukraine, Ghelen and co, the ratline, O.D.E.S.S.A., , Catholic guises, Argentine. Bolivia, New Jersey etc etc seems a higgledy piggledy bunch of words but the roads somehow or other in many instances lead to the Citicens Councils, the KKK in its various guises and with Baton Rouge and NO, Louisiana as one nexus. And in it all, the 'good ole boys' among whom we find Lee and his heritage.

Paul Johnson and his NO contemporaries.

Are there more yearbook pages to post or email?

Edited by John Dolva
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Tom, do you know at all whether there was any family connection betweeen Francis E. Townsend (image right 1936) and Jimmy P. Wilson (image left 1964.) The apparent similarity jumped out at me when reading 'Under Cover' the story of an infiltrator into the America First groupings. (John Dolva)

John,

A bit of trivia for you.

In 1946, Francis E. Townsend threw his unconditional support behind the candidacy of Homer P. Rainey for Governor of Texas. In turn, Rainey used his campaign profile to support Townsend's old age pension plan. The man who co-ordinated this with the Townsend Club was the Dallas County campaign manager for Homer Rainey. This being Malcolm 'Mac' Wallace.

FWIW.

James

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Very interesting James.

_______

This photo is from pre pearl harbour when the various groupings that formed the Nazi Fifth column in the USofA were visible.

After pearl harbour until the mid fifties many went underground. This is like 'the dark ages' when history seems to have lost sight of them.

These 'super-men' or Ubermenchen forged alliances with the old KKK groupings and after the war, returning vets of this ilk grouped together in the emerging anti-desegregation movements. This of course then became the anti Kennedy movement.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these youngsters were part of the assassination.

Their perverted philosophies and pseudo scientific doctrines about genetics was sufficient to justify the slaughter of millions in Europe and Asia so why not one commie sympathising niggerloving catholic president?

While the 'dumbing down' of youth today with pseudo science in some schools and even with a president espousing 'intelligent design' as something to be taken seriously, plus throw in a bit of Revelation and Armageddon, who did win the war?

I think truth won, otherwise there would be no forums like this. This doesn't mean the 'war' is over, it probably never will be. Delusion is always a path to take in the forks of the road of life.

____________________

The ratline was set up to allow the escape of Nazis to the American continent. The guise many of these took was the antithesis of what they stood for, the good catholic priest, just as all the Goebbles propaganda was a reversal of truth that turned freedom loving commumists and Jews into 'terrorists' and their murderers into 'heroes'.

This 'turning reality on its head' continues today.

The capacity of doing so was what made the Kennedy (and other 60's assassinations) possible in the minds of those seduced (or indeed mad-dened) by such manipulation.

The manipulators, when identified, may give a bee line to the trigger men(man?)

Townsend and co may be such. It bears investigating.

(note the 'thunderbolt' emblem.)

Edited by John Dolva
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Very interesting James.

_______

This photo is from pre pearl harbour when the various groupings that formed the Nazi Fifth column in the USofA were visible.

After pearl harbour until the mid fifties many went underground. This is like 'the dark ages' when history seems to have lost sight of them.

These 'super-men' or Ubermenchen forged alliances with the old KKK groupings and after the war, returning vets of this ilk grouped together in the emerging anti-desegregation movements. This of course then became the anti Kennedy movement.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these youngsters were part of the assassination.

Their perverted philosophies and pseudo scientific doctrines about genetics was sufficient to justify the slaughter of millions in Europe and Asia so why not one commie sympathising niggerloving catholic president?

While the 'dumbing down' of youth today with pseudo science in some schools and even with a president espousing 'intelligent design' as something to be taken seriously, plus throw in a bit of Revelation and Armageddon, who did win the war?

I think truth won, otherwise there would be no forums like this. This doesn't mean the 'war' is over, it probably never will be. Delusion is always a path to take in the forks of the road of life.

____________________

The ratline was set up to allow the escape of Nazis to the American continent. The guise many of these took was the antithesis of what they stood for, the good catholic priest, just as all the Goebbles propaganda was a reversal of truth that turned freedom loving commumists and Jews into 'terrorists' and their murderers into 'heroes'.

This 'turning reality on its head' continues today.

The capacity of doing so was what made the Kennedy (and other 60's assassinations) possible in the minds of those seduced (or indeed mad-dened) by such manipulation.

The manipulators, when identified, may give a bee line to the trigger men(man?)

Townsend and co may be such. It bears investigating.

(note the 'thunderbolt' emblem.)

John & James;

Certainly nice to have someone else in this "boat" to help paddle. (Unravel the last connections if possible).

Although this topic deals with only one aspect, the entire realm must be considered.

1. Association of personnel with direct link to LHO, who represented United Fruit.

2. Association of personnel with direct link to LHO, who were involved in initial Guatemala overthrow of government.

3. Association of personnle with direct link to LHO, who were directly linked to the "Confederate Cause".

4. Association of personnel with direct financial links to Merril Lynch, (Pierce, Fenner, Beane/to Merril Lynch.

5. Association of personnel with direct links to LHO, who were also directly linked to such as the "For America" group.

6. Association of personnel with direct links to LHO, who also had direct links to 208 LaSalle St., Chicago, IL.

Home of the Travellers Aide Society there.

7. Plus, one must not forget the "German" background of LHO/aka the Oswald family. Especially since his "Oswald" grandfather at

Covington, LA had his home burned during WWI.

Reportedly merely due to being of "German" descent.

Makes on wonder exactly why all of those other Louisiana natives of German Descent did not have their homes burned!

And, with the name "Oswald", which was also a good "Confederate Name", that pig don't fly.

"I am a Marxist!"-------------------------------------------------------Lee Harvey Oswald.

So, was that "Marxist" as in Carl Marx?

Or, was it "Marksist" as in Sumter Davis Marks?

Which of course brings up the curious fact that LHO's Claverie grandfather as well as the brother of Sumter Davis Marks, both worked for the New Orleans Transit Authority. (The trolley car system).

Marks, a dispatcher and Claverie a trolley car driver.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, methinks tha a portion of the answer lies within the other games which LHO often played.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt

Another backyard photo

Days later, on April 1, 1977, Jeanne de Mohrenschildt gave the House Select Committee on Assassinations a photograph taken of Lee Harvey Oswald, by his wife Marina, standing in his Dallas backyard holding two newspapers and a rifle with a pistol on his hip. The existence of this photograph, while similar to others which had been found among Oswald's effects on November 23, 1963, was previously unknown. Jeanne de Mohrenschildt said it had been kept privately for almost 14 years.

On the back was written To my friend George from Lee Oswald, and the date “5/IV/63” [this is in Russian/European convention with day in front and month in Roman numerals, and means 5 April, 63] [1] along with the words “Copyright Geo de M”' and a Russian phrase translated as “'Hunter of fascists, ha-ha-ha!” Handwriting specialists later concluded that the words “To my friend George…” and Oswald's signature were written by Lee Harvey Oswald but could not determine whether the rest was the writing of Lee Oswald, George de Mohrenschildt or Marina Oswald. Some historians have speculated the Russian line was written by Marina, in sarcasm. (George de Mohrenschildt in his memoir translated it as "This is the hunter of fascists, ha, ha, ha!" and also assumed that Marina had written it sarcastically).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/models.html

In addition to the manufacturer's identifying logo, the year of production (up until mid-1943) and the serial number should be imprinted on the chamber end of the barrel. The year of production is typically a 2 to 4 digit number indicating the year. For example a gun manufactured in 1918 may have a shortened year such as '918' or "18" imprinted. In addition to the A.D. Christian year, there is from 1929 until 1943, the year of the Fascist Era (which was counted from the March on Rome in autumn 1922) also stamped in Roman numerals on most barrels. Since Fascist year and common era year are not identical (just like secular and liturgical year diverge from each other), this allows to identify whether a gun was produced before or after the anniversary day of the March on Rome in a given year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carc...ase/m91_38.html

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

C2766

Unknown

Terni

1940

Fixed

Scope Mount

Side

Bent

Unknown

Unknown

The most famous Carcano of them all, this is the gun Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly used to assassinate President John F.Kennedy.

The black stock signifies that this may be a Moschettieri del Duce variant.

Some pictures can be found Assassination

Unknown

USA Archives

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

E9626

E9626

RE Terni

1940

XVIII

Fixed

Side

Bent

Fascist Year Markings

Stock has a round stamp (cartouche) which is illegible except for the name TERNI.

Collection

Good

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

F7321

None

RE Terni

1940

XVIII

Fixed

Side

Bent

Fascist Year Markings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LHO's Carcano bears the Faciast date "XVIII" which is the equivelant of 1940 (also stamped on the weapon), and references the 18th year after the official Fasiasm movement.

"Ha Ha Ha"

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Very interesting James.

_______

This photo is from pre pearl harbour when the various groupings that formed the Nazi Fifth column in the USofA were visible.

After pearl harbour until the mid fifties many went underground. This is like 'the dark ages' when history seems to have lost sight of them.

These 'super-men' or Ubermenchen forged alliances with the old KKK groupings and after the war, returning vets of this ilk grouped together in the emerging anti-desegregation movements. This of course then became the anti Kennedy movement.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these youngsters were part of the assassination.

Their perverted philosophies and pseudo scientific doctrines about genetics was sufficient to justify the slaughter of millions in Europe and Asia so why not one commie sympathising niggerloving catholic president?

While the 'dumbing down' of youth today with pseudo science in some schools and even with a president espousing 'intelligent design' as something to be taken seriously, plus throw in a bit of Revelation and Armageddon, who did win the war?

I think truth won, otherwise there would be no forums like this. This doesn't mean the 'war' is over, it probably never will be. Delusion is always a path to take in the forks of the road of life.

____________________

The ratline was set up to allow the escape of Nazis to the American continent. The guise many of these took was the antithesis of what they stood for, the good catholic priest, just as all the Goebbles propaganda was a reversal of truth that turned freedom loving commumists and Jews into 'terrorists' and their murderers into 'heroes'.

This 'turning reality on its head' continues today.

The capacity of doing so was what made the Kennedy (and other 60's assassinations) possible in the minds of those seduced (or indeed mad-dened) by such manipulation.

The manipulators, when identified, may give a bee line to the trigger men(man?)

Townsend and co may be such. It bears investigating.

(note the 'thunderbolt' emblem.)

John & James;

Certainly nice to have someone else in this "boat" to help paddle. (Unravel the last connections if possible).

Although this topic deals with only one aspect, the entire realm must be considered.

1. Association of personnel with direct link to LHO, who represented United Fruit.

2. Association of personnel with direct link to LHO, who were involved in initial Guatemala overthrow of government.

3. Association of personnle with direct link to LHO, who were directly linked to the "Confederate Cause".

4. Association of personnel with direct financial links to Merril Lynch, (Pierce, Fenner, Beane/to Merril Lynch.

5. Association of personnel with direct links to LHO, who were also directly linked to such as the "For America" group.

6. Association of personnel with direct links to LHO, who also had direct links to 208 LaSalle St., Chicago, IL.

Home of the Travellers Aide Society there.

7. Plus, one must not forget the "German" background of LHO/aka the Oswald family. Especially since his "Oswald" grandfather at

Covington, LA had his home burned during WWI.

Reportedly merely due to being of "German" descent.

Makes on wonder exactly why all of those other Louisiana natives of German Descent did not have their homes burned!

And, with the name "Oswald", which was also a good "Confederate Name", that pig don't fly.

"I am a Marxist!"-------------------------------------------------------Lee Harvey Oswald.

So, was that "Marxist" as in Carl Marx?

Or, was it "Marksist" as in Sumter Davis Marks?

Which of course brings up the curious fact that LHO's Claverie grandfather as well as the brother of Sumter Davis Marks, both worked for the New Orleans Transit Authority. (The trolley car system).

Marks, a dispatcher and Claverie a trolley car driver.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, methinks tha a portion of the answer lies within the other games which LHO often played.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt

Another backyard photo

Days later, on April 1, 1977, Jeanne de Mohrenschildt gave the House Select Committee on Assassinations a photograph taken of Lee Harvey Oswald, by his wife Marina, standing in his Dallas backyard holding two newspapers and a rifle with a pistol on his hip. The existence of this photograph, while similar to others which had been found among Oswald's effects on November 23, 1963, was previously unknown. Jeanne de Mohrenschildt said it had been kept privately for almost 14 years.

On the back was written To my friend George from Lee Oswald, and the date “5/IV/63” [this is in Russian/European convention with day in front and month in Roman numerals, and means 5 April, 63] [1] along with the words “Copyright Geo de M”' and a Russian phrase translated as “'Hunter of fascists, ha-ha-ha!” Handwriting specialists later concluded that the words “To my friend George…” and Oswald's signature were written by Lee Harvey Oswald but could not determine whether the rest was the writing of Lee Oswald, George de Mohrenschildt or Marina Oswald. Some historians have speculated the Russian line was written by Marina, in sarcasm. (George de Mohrenschildt in his memoir translated it as "This is the hunter of fascists, ha, ha, ha!" and also assumed that Marina had written it sarcastically).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/models.html

In addition to the manufacturer's identifying logo, the year of production (up until mid-1943) and the serial number should be imprinted on the chamber end of the barrel. The year of production is typically a 2 to 4 digit number indicating the year. For example a gun manufactured in 1918 may have a shortened year such as '918' or "18" imprinted. In addition to the A.D. Christian year, there is from 1929 until 1943, the year of the Fascist Era (which was counted from the March on Rome in autumn 1922) also stamped in Roman numerals on most barrels. Since Fascist year and common era year are not identical (just like secular and liturgical year diverge from each other), this allows to identify whether a gun was produced before or after the anniversary day of the March on Rome in a given year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carc...ase/m91_38.html

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

C2766

Unknown

Terni

1940

Fixed

Scope Mount

Side

Bent

Unknown

Unknown

The most famous Carcano of them all, this is the gun Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly used to assassinate President John F.Kennedy.

The black stock signifies that this may be a Moschettieri del Duce variant.

Some pictures can be found Assassination

Unknown

USA Archives

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

E9626

E9626

RE Terni

1940

XVIII

Fixed

Side

Bent

Fascist Year Markings

Stock has a round stamp (cartouche) which is illegible except for the name TERNI.

Collection

Good

91/38 Fucile Corto

6.5x52 Carcano

F7321

None

RE Terni

1940

XVIII

Fixed

Side

Bent

Fascist Year Markings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LHO's Carcano bears the Faciast date "XVIII" which is the equivelant of 1940 (also stamped on the weapon), and references the 18th year after the official Fasiasm movement.

"Ha Ha Ha"

Must be another ot "them dumb" postings as it did not get to go to the head of the class.

Or, perhaps it just knew that it belongs under the FACIASM topic!

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  • 3 months later...

Tom, I've completely neglected this topic. It must have rapidly moved out of first page and other events took prominence. As a consequence duplicating info provided here in the Greaves* topic. The Lasalle address is interesting (greaves: McAllister: Pro America Lasalle st Chicago)

Also I seem to have missed your reference to "Ha Ha Ha", and maybe didn't miss it but forgot about itand then claimed it as an idea of mine. No matter. There's time to collate all this data instead of spreading it all over the place.

____________________

One must bear in mind that these groupings had their own mythologies and symbology. I understand that one old one refers to an old German area victory over the Romans where the name of the person provides a different date standard to the common western one. Something along the line of ha or ah. Also heil adolf, heil hitler, and h as number 8 in the alphabet provides a naming used by these grouings,eg 88 = hh = heil hitler.

*Greaves

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9497

Edited by John Dolva
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