Peter McGuire Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noswW9LtXGU...ted&search= Who says the protests were ( only ) against the Vietnam War? That Ford was not elected because of Watergate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noswW9LtXGU...ted&search=Who says the protests were ( only ) against the Vietnam War? That Ford was not elected because of Watergate? Peter, that's remarkable footage. Just chilling, and sorta encouraging... I'm trying to figure out how to add it to the youtube group. Is it possible to point to an existing video? I'm flailing. Traditional with additional lyrics by jim mcguinn He was a friend of mine He was a friend of mine His killing had no purpose No reason, or rhyme He was a friend of mine He was in dallas town He was in dallas town Form a sixth floor window A gunner shot him down He died in dallas town He never knew my name He never knew my name Though I never met him I knew him just the same Oh, he was a friend of mine http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/byrds/he+was+...e_20026412.html The lyrics don't quite jibe with the comments made before the song... "sixth floor window"? It's the comments before the song that say what needs to be said. Well, Bobby Darin was proud of his protégé Jim/Roger Mcguinn. He taught him a lot about folk singing. Then Roger flew the coup and popularized folk music all over again in the post-Beatles era. I know Roger looks up to his mentor even to this day for his sincerity and purity and passion about politics and human rights. He's said so in many interviews. Darin was one more casualty of the 60's political murders. When Bobby Kennedy was assassinated it destroyed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I loved the Byrds, and particularly Roger McGuinn, back when I was a teenager. The song "He Was A Friend Of Mine," was disappointing to me, however. As a fledgling assassination researcher, I couldn't believe that line about the sixth floor window and a "gunner" (not "gunners"). The song was not written originally about JFK, but McGuinn adapted it, and added the lyrics (unfortunately) about the sixth floor window. Another of my favorite groups, the Kinks, similarly disappointed me when Ray Davies wrote the line "When Oswald killed the president he was insane, and yet we watch the reruns again and again," in the song "Give The People What They Want." To my knowledge, no major musical artist has ever recorded a pro-conspiracy song about the JFK assassination. Well, at least not until now. Obnoxious though he may be to many, Eminem has released a new song called "Public Enemy Number 1," in which he rails against Bush and the 911 official story, and also talked about JFK being assassinated with shots from the grassy knoll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Very, very moving. Thanks for posting that Peter. I don't recall hearing the song before - certainly never listened to the lyrics. The best 9-11 lyrics I've heard are Les Visible's Have I got it Right? Talking 9/11 Blues. Check it out HERE along with his other songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Mick penned the ballad 'Sympathy for the devil', which appeared on the 'Beggars Banquet' album. The Stones, in time, dropped it from their play list as it seemed to provoke people to violent behaviour. The willing after the fact complicity of everybody in accepting the obfuscation re the assassins true nature is what the song deals with. You and I. The Fascist and the silent bystander. ""Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste. I’ve been around for a long, long year, stole many a man’s soul and faith, and I was ’round when jesus christ had his moment of doubt and pain, made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate. Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name, but what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game. I stuck around St. Petersburg when I saw it was a time for a change, killed the czar and his ministers, Anastasia screamed in vain. I rode a tank, held a general’s rank, when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank... Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name. Ah, what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game, I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the gods they made. I shouted out, Who killed the kennedys? When after all, it was you and me... Let me please introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste, and I laid traps for troubadours who get killed before they reached bombay. Pleased to meet you hope you guessed my name, but what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game. Pleased to meet you hope you guessed my name, oh yeah, but what’s confusing you is just the nature of my game. Just as every cop is a criminal and all the sinners saints, as heads is tails just call me Lucifer ’cause I’m in need of some restraint, so if you meet me have some courtesy have some sympathy, and some taste, use all your well-learned politesse or I’ll lay your soul to waste. Pleased to meet you hope you guessed my name, but what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game. Tell me baby, what’s my name, tell me honey, can ya guess my name, tell me baby, what’s my name? I tell you one time, you’re to blame, what’s my name tell me, baby, what’s my name, tell me, sweetie, what’s my name?"" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geraghty Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Very, very moving.Thanks for posting that Peter. I don't recall hearing the song before - certainly never listened to the lyrics. The best 9-11 lyrics I've heard are Les Visible's Have I got it Right? Talking 9/11 Blues. Check it out HERE along with his other songs. Sid, I would assume that this is a version of Phil Ochs''Talking Vietnam Blues'? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geraghty Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Also, Here is a more complete listing of songs relevant to the assassination. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c+assassination John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McGuire Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noswW9LtXGU...ted&search=Who says the protests were ( only ) against the Vietnam War? That Ford was not elected because of Watergate? Glad you guys liked it. Of course what I meant to say about Ford was that he supposedly was not elected to the Presidency because he pardoned Nixon, which had to do with Watergate. But what is not ever reported is that many people, including myself, did not vote for Ford because he was on the Warren Commission. I felt this way , at that time, without 2% of the evidence I have now. And I am sure many people did. As far as the Vietnam War protests. I think Gary Angular wrote that the genisis of these protests was how the students felt the government was lying to them about the assassination. Although the lyrics take the party line, the introduction by the singer does not. And he mentions bullets coming from several different directions and how the truth was being surpressed-in 1967! The evidence is , and always has been there. But the American Sheeple just dont want to hear it. Edited February 22, 2007 by Peter McGuire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Mick penned the ballad 'Sympathy for the devil', which appeared on the 'Beggars Banquet' album. The Stones, in time, dropped it from their play list as it seemed to provoke people to violent behaviour. The willing after the fact complicity of everybody in accepting the obfuscation re the assassins true nature is what the song deals with. You and I. The Fascist and the silent bystander. I don't think it was the lyrics that provoked people to violent behavior. I think it was the fact that the Stones hired hell's angels as bodyguards for the Altamont concert, paid them with cases of beer, let them get drunk as hell, then were silent bystanders as the angels physically assaulted (and rendered unconscious) Marty Balin of the Jefferson Airplane who performed before the Stones. When Mick finally took to the stage he shouldn't have been surprised when his drunk and out of control hell's angels stabbed an audience member dead, all visible on film, as he pranced about singing. Mick and the Stones never acknowledged their complicity in the murder of the audience member who was assassinated by their employees. But I do acknowledge that Mick was qualified to write about murder and complicity given the Stone's complicity in planting Frank Thorogood, another one of their employees, in the house at pooh corner to harass and murder Brian Jones--the Stones founder and most brilliant musician. http://archive.salon.com/ent/col/srag/2000.../gimme_shelter/ http://www.amazon.com/Brian-Jones-Killed-C...g/dp/1900924811 When Don McLean penned his ballad about Buddy Holly, he pulled no punches in describing Mick Jagger at Altamont: "So come on: jack be nimble, jack be quick! Jack flash sat on a candlestick Cause fire is the devil’s only friend. Oh, and as I watched him on the stage My hands were clenched in fists of rage. No angel born in hell Could break that satan’s spell. And as the flames climbed high into the night To light the sacrificial rite, I saw satan laughing with delight The day the music died" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_398b.html http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/american-pie/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Myra, that was only one instance (wrongly) attributed to the song. And when Mick became aware of what was going on, certainly didn't "prance.. about singing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 It great to see baby boomers debating something that really matters: our favourite rock and roll idols and the true meaning of lyrics we've been humming for decades. Personally, I am a Keith Richards' fan. Still climibing coconut palms after all these years. If anyone has a pact with the devil, it's Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Myra, that was only one instance (wrongly) attributed to the song. And when Mick became aware of what was going on, certainly didn't "prance.. about singing." If you read my post you'll see that I didn't say that they were performing Sympathy for the Devil when the murder happened John. They were playing Under my Thumb. If my tone is harsh it's because I do think the Stones were responsible for the Altamont murder but never took responsibility. (In fact there were four deaths that day due to lack of planning on their part.) They were also largely responsible for Brian Jone's murder and much of the cover-up including the burning of Jones' possessions. In both cases their direct employees committed the crime. In the Altamont murder case the Stones at least weren't willful accomplices. In the case of Brian Jones they were. So I don't much like them. And I was pointing out that Jagger was a hypocrite when he wrote those lyrics and is every time he sings them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Also,Here is a more complete listing of songs relevant to the assassination. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c+assassination John Thanks for that link John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Myra, I'm sure there is more to it than what is generally known, and I'm sure (recognise) that you do take care and seriously develop your posts and opinions, and I'm sure much of what you say is true. Altamont came upon the heels of the remarkable Woodstock. I think a naivetee in the Stones, probably partly of who they were (compared to :John, George, Ringo and what's his name" to paraphrase Jack Cassady) there are elements in The Hells Angels that are/were honourable. There are associations and attitudes that we (many of us) are not fully aware of. Nevertheless, whatever ones attitude to the artists and their songs, "Symapthy for the devil" is significant (IMO) not only of the words (and its remarkable rhythm and riffs, which is another story, get a copy, turn the light out and the volume right up and see yourself in a concert in 1967, or don't), but the introduction of a seldom discussed concept, that of guilt for something one did not do. I think this touches on a power struggle in the world between those (most) who are mostly good and cappable of great good, but through inaction are somehow complicit and consequently driven to expunge a guilt of sorts, and organised evil, like those who hold the leashes on the "Dogs of War".. IMO this can be relevant as a driving force behind seeking the answer to the question "Who killed the Kennedys". Mick suggested 'you and me'. Note that 'me' here is Mick himself. That (IMO) is a degree of a responsibility that ultimately we all have in shaping the world we live in. Edited February 22, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 John, Thanks for remembering the line in "Sympathy For The Devil." How could I forget that? Can't agree with that there's anything positive about Hells Angels, however; in my book they're one of the scourges of modern society. Even more dangerous urban gangs like the Bloods and Crips derived much of their nonsensical "code" and behavior from the Hells Angels. Myra, I tend to agree with you here. I once worked with a guy, some years ago, who had been a session drummer with some big names in the music industry (but worked primarily with Link Wray). He told me some great behind the scenes stories. One of them was that it was common knowledge in the industry that Mick Jagger had Brian Jones "offed" (his term) because he was basically jealous of him. I like much of the Stones' music (including "Sympathy For The Devil," which is probably my favorite song by them), but found the whole incident at Altamont unsettling. Regardless of how they acted at the time, or whether Mick kept dancing after the guy had been stabbed, they really didn't display any remorse over the loss of life afterwards. Btw, I believe that prior to hitting it big with the Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger studied at the London School of Economics. At the very least, that is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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