Anna Lindh

[Paul Rigby]

In most assassinations there is NO attempt to investigate Israel as a serious suspect. The murder of Hariri in The Lebanon is a classic case in point. Qui bono? Israel, of course!

To which one might add the curious case of Alan Johnston, the disappeared BBC correspondent in Gaza. Now who could possibly want to drive all foreign correspondents out of that particular area?

If the group responsible turns out to be Al Qaida-linked, we'll know for sure its a pseudo-gang operation; and a prelude to something nasty for the people of the area.

Paul

[David Richardson]

I begin to wonder a) if I've entirely misunderstood key features of Swedish society in general; and specifically, if the historic function of the Social Democrats has been to furnish an enduring, self-effacing elite with little more than a liberal veneer? Your thoughts very welcome.

Paul

Swedish governments are typically minority governments or coalitions, where the balance of voting at the election went 51%-49% between the blocs. However, until 1991 Swedish governments sat for 3-year terms, so a government was always looking over its shoulder at the electorate. For most of the last 100 years, it was the Social Democrats who got to run things, but they were always careful to try to get the opposition parties to sign up to important pieces of legislation, such as social insurance laws and pension laws, so that they could be sure that there'd be some continuity in Swedish society. It worked very well … to the extent that the right-wing party had to change its name to 'The Moderates' just to have a chance of being elected.

At the same time, there's been a series of oligarchies running Swedish industry, with very firm ties to the government in office (usually the Social Democrats). That's why Ericsson is such a big name in telecommunications - it was sweetheart deals with the Swedish governments in the 1930s and 1940s which enabled a little place like Sweden to create a world-leader in telecommunications. Or, at least, that's how they made their first thousand dollars! Swedish company law allows for a small shareholding to control a huge company, with what are called A and B shares. If you want to buy shares in, say, Ericsson, you can buy as many B shares as you like, but it's the A shares that give seats on the board, and they're not for sale!

As regards your point b, I have a declaration of interest to make. I'm actually a member of the Social Democrats (sit on the ward committee of the Funkabo district of the Kalmar Social Democrats). At first sight it certainly looks the way you describe it … but the picture I see is very different. We're one ward in a city of only 60,000 people, but we've got more dues-paying members than New Labour in the city of Manchester in the UK! And by 'dues-paying members', I'm talking about people who get their paying-in slips personally in their hands from people who visit them in their homes - not block union members. In other words, yes, there are people who've held office in the Social Democrats who've provided this veneer, but the party as a whole is still a strong grass-roots party, where people expect to have their say and to have the policies they believe in carried out by their party in government.

You might have heard of Employee Investment Funds which existed from the early 1980s until they were abolished by the 'Moderate' government just before they were kicked out of office in 1994. The right put the cash in those funds into a series of trusts which were given the task of investing in Swedish science and technology, and it's thanks to the money they'd collected (from a levy on company profits) that Sweden's so advanced when it comes to IT nowadays. If the Social Democrats were just the court jesters, then those funds would never have been created (the oligarchs hated having to invest money in funds for social investment). In fact, many leading Social Democrats were bitterly opposed to them.

To sum up, Sweden's just another north-western European country which fights the same fights as everyone else. It's just that the right win less often here than they do in other countries, which is why Sweden's still one of the richest countries in the world … There are ups and downs (we're in one of the 'downs' at the moment), but what most people want is what most people everywhere want: prosperity based on fair treatment and social justice. Each time the right have gained power they've tried to break people of this desire … but so far they haven't succeeded.

[Paul Rigby]

I begin to wonder a) if I've entirely misunderstood key features of Swedish society in general; and specifically, if the historic function of the Social Democrats has been to furnish an enduring, self-effacing elite with little more than a liberal veneer? Your thoughts very welcome.

Paul

Swedish governments are typically minority governments or coalitions, where the balance of voting at the election went 51%-49% between the blocs. However, until 1991 Swedish governments sat for 3-year terms, so a government was always looking over its shoulder at the electorate. For most of the last 100 years, it was the Social Democrats who got to run things, but they were always careful to try to get the opposition parties to sign up to important pieces of legislation, such as social insurance laws and pension laws, so that they could be sure that there'd be some continuity in Swedish society. It worked very well … to the extent that the right-wing party had to change its name to 'The Moderates' just to have a chance of being elected.

At the same time, there's been a series of oligarchies running Swedish industry, with very firm ties to the government in office (usually the Social Democrats). That's why Ericsson is such a big name in telecommunications - it was sweetheart deals with the Swedish governments in the 1930s and 1940s which enabled a little place like Sweden to create a world-leader in telecommunications. Or, at least, that's how they made their first thousand dollars! Swedish company law allows for a small shareholding to control a huge company, with what are called A and B shares. If you want to buy shares in, say, Ericsson, you can buy as many B shares as you like, but it's the A shares that give seats on the board, and they're not for sale!

As regards your point b, I have a declaration of interest to make. I'm actually a member of the Social Democrats (sit on the ward committee of the Funkabo district of the Kalmar Social Democrats). At first sight it certainly looks the way you describe it … but the picture I see is very different. We're one ward in a city of only 60,000 people, but we've got more dues-paying members than New Labour in the city of Manchester in the UK! And by 'dues-paying members', I'm talking about people who get their paying-in slips personally in their hands from people who visit them in their homes - not block union members. In other words, yes, there are people who've held office in the Social Democrats who've provided this veneer, but the party as a whole is still a strong grass-roots party, where people expect to have their say and to have the policies they believe in carried out by their party in government.

You might have heard of Employee Investment Funds which existed from the early 1980s until they were abolished by the 'Moderate' government just before they were kicked out of office in 1994. The right put the cash in those funds into a series of trusts which were given the task of investing in Swedish science and technology, and it's thanks to the money they'd collected (from a levy on company profits) that Sweden's so advanced when it comes to IT nowadays. If the Social Democrats were just the court jesters, then those funds would never have been created (the oligarchs hated having to invest money in funds for social investment). In fact, many leading Social Democrats were bitterly opposed to them.

To sum up, Sweden's just another north-western European country which fights the same fights as everyone else. It's just that the right win less often here than they do in other countries, which is why Sweden's still one of the richest countries in the world … There are ups and downs (we're in one of the 'downs' at the moment), but what most people want is what most people everywhere want: prosperity based on fair treatment and social justice. Each time the right have gained power they've tried to break people of this desire … but so far they haven't succeeded.

So I can fall right back in love with the place, then, eh?

Still, I can't quite suppress the conservative sceptic in me: none of the high level assassinations seem to have been investigated with honesty and intelligence; and the spooks, as in Britain, form a US-serving fifth column.

Much work to be done yet, I fear.

Finally, thanks again for the responses. We are permitted to hear and see so little from outside the Anglosphere that it really is a breath of fresh air to be offered this kind of input. Thank you again!

Paul

[David Richardson]

Still, I can't quite suppress the conservative sceptic in me: none of the high level assassinations seem to have been investigated with honesty and intelligence; and the spooks, as in Britain, form a US-serving fifth column.

Good point.

There are some investigative Swedish journalists, who've uncovered a whole lot of dirt on the secret services. One of them is Jan Guillou:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Guillou

Unfortunately, not much of their work is available in English. Guillou has made a packet writing 'James Bond' type stories, where the main character is a left-wing secret service agent (!). Those books are full of digs at the incompetence and double-dealing of the Swedish secret service.

Guillou writes a column in Aftonbladet twice a month, where he often brings up critical information … but only in Swedish.

[Sid Walker]

There are some investigative Swedish journalists, who've uncovered a whole lot of dirt on the secret services. One of them is Jan Guillou:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Guillou

Unfortunately, not much of their work is available in English. Guillou has made a packet writing 'James Bond' type stories, where the main character is a left-wing secret service agent (!). Those books are full of digs at the incompetence and double-dealing of the Swedish secret service.

Guillou writes a column in Aftonbladet twice a month, where he often brings up critical information … but only in Swedish.

Interesting reference, David. Thanks

[Len Colby]

One of the reasons that Israel are often suspected in cases where prominent persons are murdered, especially when those persons have been in disputes with Israel, is because Israel have a proven track record of murder.

OK so when anyone who at anytime in their life criticized Israel is killed, commits suicide or dies in accident, agents of that country are guilty until proven innocent in your mind.

The bombing of the King David Hotel, the assassination of Bernadotte,

I agree with you both of these were horrible acts. The latter carried out by an extremist group outside the main Zionist movement (though yes their leaders decades later held important posts including PM). The British bear SOME of the blame for the former because they headquartered their military and intelligence operations in a civilian building and apparently ignoring a warning to evacuate it.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/bombi...david_hotel.htm

hit squads sent in to kill suspected terrorists in neighbouring countries

I won’t say I condone such actions but I don’t really loose much sleep over them either (except when innocent people are killed) and the Israelis are far from the only government to do this. I imagine if Australia were as frequent a target for terrorism as Israel it would use similar tactics.

as well as massacres involving innocents etc

You got me there, yes all too often the security, military and intelligence forces of Israel have committed atrocities

(that includes the USS Liberty, accident or no accident).

No because if it was an accident, as the evidence indicates it was, they though they were attacking enemy forces during wartime, most of the Americans died after the Liberty open fire on the Israeli MTB’s. By your logic the British are murders too because RAF pilots killed the crewmen of 6 British navy ships off the coast of France after D-Day and British Navy pilots attacked the HMS Sheffield thinking it was the very different and much larger Bismark.

I know you don't like accepting it Len, but Israel are proven killers. Pure and simple. You rush to their defence whenever there is a sliver of doubt

In the cases you and Sid cited in your previous posts the evidence implicating Israel is non-existent other than the victims had at some point criticized Israel sometimes even years before their deaths and the evidence they had nothing to do with it in most cases is quite strong.

but whenever there are unexplained deaths concerning persons who have had public disputes with that state, Israel is always a suspect, imo.

If someone is murdered or dies in a suspicious accident then it is reasonable to look at anyone who might have wanted them dead, but in the cases you cited except for Hobeika there is no real reason to suspect Israel.

Why? Because, as I said before, their track record incriminates them.

Then I’m sure you can cite a list of politicians with no ties to terrorism assassinated by the Israeli government in the last 50 years.

As for your questioning the motive for Israel wanting to murder Lindh, it's all speculation isn't it? Israel may have considered her a charismatic and dangerous adversary who may have had the potential to become a future leader of Sweden or high office holder in the UN, who could then influence many people with her arguments.

Yes very speculative, she was far from the only European politician critical of Israel and I’m sure she stepped on lots of people’s toes.

"This murder has similarities to the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer and, as in that case, I don't believe any official story about her being a random, unfortunate victim of a deranged lone nut killer. Someone else wanted her dead and there was nothing random about it, imo."

Too bad for you that you have absolutely zero evidence to back your belief (regarding the Lindh case). In this respect you are not very different from people who “don’t believe any official story about” evolution, the Holocaust or the Moon landings except they have been able to rationalize pseudo scientific/historical evidence to back their “theories”. Perhaps a better comparison would be to superstitious Brazilians who’ve told me things like throwing cold water into a very hot pan then drinking it cures hiccups or that showering after eating pig meat is life threatening, even being shown contrary evidence (people drinking “shocked water” not getting better and people who survived post-pork chop showers) doesn’t shake their beliefs.

Other than both victims were women who about the same age who apparently didn’t know their slayers what similarities do you see? I’ve yet to see proof Pinchot’s murder was a hit, though it might well have been.

"That's right, there's no proof he was murdered, although the explosion which led to the crash makes it a possible case of sabotage. In fact South Africa were reportedly unhappy with the purpose of his mission in the Congo, as were the Soviets. However, as I said before, he goes down in history with a question mark over his death and he must be counted among the deaths of those who had previously been in bitter dispute with Israel--proven killers."

It’s not even certain that there was an explosion or that it led to the crash. If he was murdered the Israelis would have to be low down on the suspects list because his last known dispute with Israel had been five years earlier and in 3 1/2 months he’d no longer be Secretary General.

"Mattei was definitely murdered. A bomb was planted on his plane, imo. I never said I suspected Israel to be involved in Mattei's death. The oil industry, in particular Texas, had strong motivation to kill this dangerous threat to future profits. He was the subject of an interesting thread in 2005:"

You’re sure he was murdered because you think there was a bomb on his plane? I looked at the thread and saw nothing conclusive. As with Pinchot and Hammarskjold his death may well have been a hit but I have yet to see compelling evidence. I never indicated I thought you suspected Israel

[Len Colby]

I think that's right. Israel can hardly have it both ways. Either its long reach and deadly strike is to be feared - or not. As the extract of Hammarskjold's letters to Ben Gurion well demonstrates, the UN Secreatary General - as long ago as the 1950s - clearly believed that fear was Israel's strategy.

Who said Israel is trying for the latter for anyone who isn’t a terrorist?

The western mass media plays a helpful role. Routinely, Israel is barely mentioned as a suspect when a suspicious death, such as the assassination of Anna Lindh, occurs.

Perhaps that because there was no reason to believe her murder was anything more than the work of a “lone nut” let alone as to who would have wanted her dead. News media is supposed to report the facts not engage in wild speculation. She obviously didn’t feel she was in any danger because she had no security.

The Hobeika murder was an exception. Shockingly, that was treated as something of a joke - a variation on the theme of "he got what was coming to him". Indeed, other potential witnesses against Sharon were also murdered around the same time (one in South America!), a spate of murders exceeding the bounds of plausible deniability. This was blatant, gangland-style pretrial elimination of key witnesses

Citation?

In most assassinations there is NO attempt to investigate Israel as a serious suspect. The murder of Hariri in The Lebanon is a classic case in point. Qui bono? Israel, of course! Who gets accused and scapegoated - without any real motive or hard evidence? Syria - of course!

No real motive? Are you kidding, he was the main leader of those opposed to Syria’s presence in his country. Many such movements don’t survive the deaths of their leaders. Coming from a totalitalian country where dissent isn’t permitted they could have under estimated the reaction of the Lebanese. Funny when a critic of Israel in Sweden or Germany dies you suspect Israel, when a critic of Syria in Lebanon (then controlled by Syria) is murdered you suspect Israel! Israel didn’t really benefit that much Hezbollah is part of the weak coalition ruling Lebanon. I’m sure the Israelis would rather deal with Syria than their more radical proxies.

[Mark Stapleton]

One of the reasons that Israel are often suspected in cases where prominent persons are murdered, especially when those persons have been in disputes with Israel, is because Israel have a proven track record of murder.

OK so when anyone who at anytime in their life criticized Israel is killed, commits suicide or dies in accident, agents of that country are guilty until proven innocent in your mind.

The bombing of the King David Hotel, the assassination of Bernadotte,

I agree with you both of these were horrible acts. The latter carried out by an extremist group outside the main Zionist movement (though yes their leaders decades later held important posts including PM). The British bear SOME of the blame for the former because they headquartered their military and intelligence operations in a civilian building and apparently ignoring a warning to evacuate it.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/bombi...david_hotel.htm

hit squads sent in to kill suspected terrorists in neighbouring countries

I won’t say I condone such actions but I don’t really loose much sleep over them either (except when innocent people are killed) and the Israelis are far from the only government to do this. I imagine if Australia were as frequent a target for terrorism as Israel it would use similar tactics.

as well as massacres involving innocents etc

You got me there, yes all too often the security, military and intelligence forces of Israel have committed atrocities

(that includes the USS Liberty, accident or no accident).

No because if it was an accident, as the evidence indicates it was, they though they were attacking enemy forces during wartime, most of the Americans died after the Liberty open fire on the Israeli MTB’s. By your logic the British are murders too because RAF pilots killed the crewmen of 6 British navy ships off the coast of France after D-Day and British Navy pilots attacked the HMS Sheffield thinking it was the very different and much larger Bismark.

I don't think the 'evidence indicates' the Liberty incident was an accident. I still believe the IDF knew who they were attacking. Please address any reply to that threrad.

I know you don't like accepting it Len, but Israel are proven killers. Pure and simple. You rush to their defence whenever there is a sliver of doubt

In the cases you and Sid cited in your previous posts the evidence implicating Israel is non-existent other than the victims had at some point criticized Israel sometimes even years before their deaths and the evidence they had nothing to do with it in most cases is quite strong.

but whenever there are unexplained deaths concerning persons who have had public disputes with that state, Israel is always a suspect, imo.

If someone is murdered or dies in a suspicious accident then it is reasonable to look at anyone who might have wanted them dead, but in the cases you cited except for Hobeika there is no real reason to suspect Israel.

Rubbish. Anna Lindh was a strong advocate of the Palestinian cause and a critic of Israel. That is motive enough for Israel wanting to silence her. Israel are proven killers.

Why? Because, as I said before, their track record incriminates them.

Then I’m sure you can cite a list of politicians with no ties to terrorism assassinated by the Israeli government in the last 50 years.

As for your questioning the motive for Israel wanting to murder Lindh, it's all speculation isn't it? Israel may have considered her a charismatic and dangerous adversary who may have had the potential to become a future leader of Sweden or high office holder in the UN, who could then influence many people with her arguments.

Yes very speculative, she was far from the only European politician critical of Israel and I’m sure she stepped on lots of people’s toes.

"This murder has similarities to the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer and, as in that case, I don't believe any official story about her being a random, unfortunate victim of a deranged lone nut killer. Someone else wanted her dead and there was nothing random about it, imo."

Too bad for you that you have absolutely zero evidence to back your belief (regarding the Lindh case). In this respect you are not very different from people who “don’t believe any official story about” evolution, the Holocaust or the Moon landings except they have been able to rationalize pseudo scientific/historical evidence to back their “theories”. Perhaps a better comparison would be to superstitious Brazilians who’ve told me things like throwing cold water into a very hot pan then drinking it cures hiccups or that showering after eating pig meat is life threatening, even being shown contrary evidence (people drinking “shocked water” not getting better and people who survived post-pork chop showers) doesn’t shake their beliefs.

An absurd rant--even by your standards.

Other than both victims were women who about the same age who apparently didn’t know their slayers what similarities do you see? I’ve yet to see proof Pinchot’s murder was a hit, though it might well have been.

"That's right, there's no proof he was murdered, although the explosion which led to the crash makes it a possible case of sabotage. In fact South Africa were reportedly unhappy with the purpose of his mission in the Congo, as were the Soviets. However, as I said before, he goes down in history with a question mark over his death and he must be counted among the deaths of those who had previously been in bitter dispute with Israel--proven killers."

It’s not even certain that there was an explosion or that it led to the crash. If he was murdered the Israelis would have to be low down on the suspects list because his last known dispute with Israel had been five years earlier and in 3 1/2 months he’d no longer be Secretary General.

"Mattei was definitely murdered. A bomb was planted on his plane, imo. I never said I suspected Israel to be involved in Mattei's death. The oil industry, in particular Texas, had strong motivation to kill this dangerous threat to future profits. He was the subject of an interesting thread in 2005:"

You’re sure he was murdered because you think there was a bomb on his plane? I looked at the thread and saw nothing conclusive. As with Pinchot and Hammarskjold his death may well have been a hit but I have yet to see compelling evidence. I never indicated I thought you suspected Israel

I find it incredible that you could doubt that Mattei was murdered. Why don't you post that on the Mattei thread--if you're game. Put your name on that thread and say you find 'nothing conclusive' that shows he was murdered--I dare ya'. The background circumstances surrounding Mattei's death make it almost a certainty, imo. Your stubborn refusal to put two and two together makes me think you just like arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Sid Walker]

The Hobeika murder was an exception. Shockingly, that was treated as something of a joke - a variation on the theme of "he got what was coming to him". Indeed, other potential witnesses against Sharon were also murdered around the same time (one in South America!), a spate of murders exceeding the bounds of plausible deniability. This was blatant, gangland-style pretrial elimination of key witnesses

Citation?

Try this in the Scotsman. 12th March 2002: Phalangist’s murder may be part of pattern

THE murder of a former Lebanese Phalangist that has baffled Brazilian police may have been part of a pattern of killings of former Christian figures linked to the massacre of Palestinian refugees in 1982, it emerged yesterday.

Michael Nassar, 39, was the third former Lebanese Christian militia to die in unexplained circumstances in the past two months. Elie Hobeika, the Phalangist leader, was murdered in a car bombing in Beirut in January. Jean Ghanem, another Hobeika aide, was killed when his car crashed into a tree on New Year’s Day.

Mr Nassar was shot dead in São Paulo with his wife Marie Noel Mimassi, 31, by a masked gunman at a petrol station while waiting for a flat tyre to be repaired. The couple, who were on their way way to dinner with friends, had phoned a friend on his mobile to say that his car had suffered a blow-out and he feared he was being followed by another car.

Mr Nassar was still talking on the mobile when the gunman drew up and shot him in the head. Mr Nassar was struck down by another six bullets before his wife was shot with four, Folha de São Paulo newspaper quoted a police spokeswoman as saying. The gunman used a 7.65mm calibre pistol equipped with a silencer.

Surprised you need a reference on the murder of the Nassars, Len. Sao Paulo's your home turf, isn't it?

In most assassinations there is NO attempt to investigate Israel as a serious suspect. The murder of Hariri in The Lebanon is a classic case in point. Qui bono? Israel, of course! Who gets accused and scapegoated - without any real motive or hard evidence? Syria - of course!

No real motive? Are you kidding, he was the main leader of those opposed to Syria’s presence in his country. Many such movements don’t survive the deaths of their leaders. Coming from a totalitalian country where dissent isn’t permitted they could have under estimated the reaction of the Lebanese. Funny when a critic of Israel in Sweden or Germany dies you suspect Israel, when a critic of Syria in Lebanon (then controlled by Syria) is murdered you suspect Israel! Israel didn’t really benefit that much Hezbollah is part of the weak coalition ruling Lebanon. I’m sure the Israelis would rather deal with Syria than their more radical proxies.

Protraying Hariri as an enemy of Syria began within hours of his death.

Perhaps YOU, Len, could draw on your vast research capability and find me a credible reference that indicates Hariri was truly "the main leader of those opposed to Syria’s presence in his country"... a reference, that is, pre-dating his assassination? Not saying it doesn't exist... but from the reading I've done, Hariri's policies to Lebaon's neighbours were a lot less monochromatic than the CNN/Fox/BBC view that locked in as soon as the man could no longer speak for himself.

His 'removal', of course, was advantageous to Israel's mad and murderous plan to conduct broadscale punitive assaults on The Lebanon. Hysterical anti-Syrian 'world reaction' led to a Syrian withdrawal, leaving only Hezbollah to resist Israel's high-tech bully boys (aka the IDF).

But we digress... what does this have to do with Anna Lindh?

Notn much, perhaps, yet a Europe in which Anna Lindh played a prominent role was a Europe more inclined to stand up to well-connected mass murderers, IMO.

Edited May 13, 2007 by Sid Walker

[Len Colby]

dupe

Edited May 15, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

dupe

Edited May 15, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

dupe

Edited May 15, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

double post

Edited May 15, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

The Hobeika murder was an exception. Shockingly, that was treated as something of a joke - a variation on the theme of "he got what was coming to him". Indeed, other potential witnesses against Sharon were also murdered around the same time (one in South America!), a spate of murders exceeding the bounds of plausible deniability. This was blatant, gangland-style pretrial elimination of key witnesses

Citation?

Try this in the Scotsman. 12th March 2002: Phalangist’s murder may be part of pattern

Nowhere is it said that Ghanem who died of a heart attack* or Nassar who would have been 19 or 20 at the time of the massacre were potential witnesses against Sharon. Can you cite any sources who said before they were killed that they were potential witnesses? So far the only people I could find who said this are Robert Fisk and James Petras who 1) only said this after they were killed 2) don’t cite any sources and 3) are openly hostile to Israel.

* http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Newsdesk...ment&Click=

Who killed Nassar? As with the Hobieka and Hariri murders there are more people with motive than in an Agatha Christy mystery. Who do his former Phalangist buddies suspect did it? Other Phalangists!

From Lebanon’s leading English language newspaper:

Political feud blamed for Sao Paulo slayings - Multi-millionaire Nassar accused of pocketing LF funds

- The Daily Star, March 11, 2002 (excerpt)

“On whether the family suspects anyone in particular, Nassar said, “we don’t have a clue,” but added that she was sure that the killings were not motivated by theft.

Sources close to the Lebanese Forces told The Daily Star that fingers are pointed toward people inside the disbanded party, particularly those close to its former chief, Samir Geagea.

Geagea arrested Nassar in 1991 after the latter pocketed money belonging to the militia.

“Geagea released Nassar only because his uncle, South Lebanese Army militia Commander Antoine Lahd, intervened on his behalf,” a source said.”

http://www.lebanonwire.com/aa-lebanon/02031107DS.htm

Another article from the same paper two days earlier went into greater detail about the money he stole:

Gunmen kill ex-LF member in Brazil

March 9, 2002

(excerpt)

“Sources close to the Lebanese Forces said Nassar has lived in Sao Paolo since 1997, when he fled Lebanon after repeated orders to appear in court for investigations into the source of millions of dollars in cash and assets. But after being called repeatedly for questioning, Nassar left with his family to resettle in Brazil.

The sources said Nassar was involved in the sale of LF weapons to Balkan militias during the early 1990s. He was the point man for ridding the LF of its arsenal after armed groups were disbanded and ordered to hand over their weapons to the army. However, he pocketed much of the money from such sales. The source estimated his wealth at more than $100 million.

After running guns for several years between Cyprus and Europe, Nassar returned to Lebanon in the mid-1990s to bid for a seat in the 1996 elections. A native of Kfar Qatra, in the Chouf, he spent generously on philanthropic projects in the district, hoping to gain popularity. But when he felt that he would not be able to garner enough votes, he withdrew.”

http://www.lebanonwire.com/aa-lebanon/02030912DS.htm

He was named as one of the people who took LF money on the group’s forum

http://www.lebanese-forces.org/vbullet/arc...hp/t-13038.html

There is evidence to support the hypothesis he was killed by members of the LF or at least by other Arabs.

According to an article in the “Folha de Sao Paulo” Brazil’s best respected newspaper:

“A polícia divulgou ontem retrato falado do suposto assassino do empresário libanês…O suspeito seria um homem forte, com traços árabes, de cerca de 1,85 m de altura, pele branca, cabelos crespos e olhos castanhos. Testemunhas teriam visto esse homem no posto momentos antes de o casal parar para trocar um pneu furado. Na chegada de Nassar e Marie, ele teria colocado um capuz e feito os disparos.”

http://fws.uol.com.br/folio.pgi/stdobject/buttonq.gif/fsp2002.nfo/query=mikhael+nassar/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only

Translation:

“Yesterday the police released a (police) sketch of the supposed killer of the Lebanese businessman…the suspect is a heavy set man, with Arab features about 1.85 meters (6 foot 1) tall, white skin, curly hair and brown eyes. Witnesses saw this man at the (gas) station moments before the couple arrived to change a flat tire. When Nassar and Marie arrived he put on a ski mask and shot them.”

Last March “O Globo” one of Brazil’s main newspapers ran an article about the case and included this interesting passage:

“Quatro dias antes do crime, a mãe de Mike veio do Líbano para uma visita. Na lista de passageiros do vôo da KLM que a trouxe da Holanda para São Paulo, havia nada menos do que nove homens de origem árabe cujos nomes constam de uma lista da Interpol de procurados por envolvimento com o terrorismo. Todos vinham pela primeira vez ao Brasil. Dois deles foram embora no dia seguinte aos assassinatos. Antes que o crime completasse uma semana, todos haviam saído do país. Alguns pela fronteira com o Paraguai.”

http://www.mre.gov.br/portugues/noticiario..._RESENHA=316126

Translation:

“Four days before the crime, Mike’s mother came over from Lebanon for a visit. On the list of passengers of the KLM flight from Holland to Sao Paulo there were no less than nine men of Arab origin whose names are on an Interpol list of people wanted for involvement with terrorism. All of them were visiting Brazil for the first time. Two of them left the day after the murders. Within a week of the crime all had left the country, some left though Paraguay”

The “triple frontier” of Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina has been described as a center of terrorist activity. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/america...rror.triborder/ , http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rm/2001/7012.htm , http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6179085.stm

Another excerpt from the Globo article:

“Mike era traficante de armas. Quando a guerra civil do Líbano acabou, em 1990, ele vendeu as armas entregues pelos falangistas a milícias croatas que lutavam na guerra do Kosovo. Antes de morrer, segundo empresas de segurança estrangeiras no Brasil, ele vendia munição para a narcoguerrilha colombiana. Além disso, tinha ligações com traficantes libaneses.

Em 1997, uma corte libanesa instaurou inquérito para averiguar o súbito enriquecimento de Mike que, então, somava mais de US$100 milhões. Ele se refugiou no Brasil, onde abriu uma construtora de apartamentos para o governo de São Paulo. Pouco depois se viu envolvido em outro escândalo.”

Translation:

“Mike was an arms dealer. When the Lebanese Civil War ended in 1990, he sold the weapons turned in by the Phalangists to Croatian militias fighting in the Kosovo war. Before his death, according to foreign security companies in Brazil, he sold ammunition to Colombian “narco-guerrilas”. Besides that he associated with Lebanese (drug) dealers.

In 1997, a Lebanese court carried out an investigation into Mike’s quickly accumulated fortune which then totaled $ 100 Million. He fled to Brazil where he opened a company that built apartments for the Sao Paulo state government. A little after that he was involved in another scandal”

So in addition to having pissed off other Phalangists by ripping them off he had dealings with Colombian and Lebanese drug dealers and Croatian militias, might he have done something to earn their wrath? Might the ammunition he sold the Columbians have been from the LF too further angering them? Might Islamic militants been angered by his sale of weapons to the Croatians who attacked Yugoslavian Muslims?

Before Sid goes on about how “O Globo” is another example of a Western mainstream media source that refuses to look at the Israel angle, the article actually pushed the theory that Nassar, Hobeika and Ghanem were killed by the Mossad because of their ability to incriminate Sharon. The author got his information for that part of his article from this Petras essay:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15800.htm

as translated in this web magazine:

http://odiario.info/b2-img/Petras.pdf

A Lebanese newspaper reported the following:

“Police said it was able to produce a sketch of the suspect who bought the Mercedes car which was rigged with explosives that killed Hobeika and four of his bodyguards.

The original owner of the car who sold it to the suspect gave the description. The sketch was submitted to more than 12,000 people with criminal records but no one could identify the suspect.

The suspect had given his family name to the seller as Nassar claiming that he hails from a southern Lebanese village. But investigation showed that the identity was fake.”

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Newsdesk...ment&Click=

Mikhael Nassar was from a “southern Lebanese village” might Hobeika’s people not have gotten the word the identity of the buyer was fake or not believed it? Was his family involved in the Hobeika hit or was someone trying to “set them up”?

The March Globo article also mentioned the following:

“A Construtora Nassar comprou por R$300 mil uma gleba desapropriada pelo governo do estado por R$4 milhões para a construção do Rodoanel Mário Covas. Ano passado, o DHPP encomendou auditoria na Construtora Nassar.”

Translation:

“Construtora Nassar (Nassar Construction) bought for R$ 300,000 ($150,000 at current exchange rates) a plot of land disappropriated by the state government for R$ 4 million ($ 2 million) to build the Mario Covas Ring Road (beltway). Last year the State Police Homicide Division (DHPP) paid for an audit of Construtora Nassar.”

A few days after the murder another leading newspaper “O Estado de Sao Paulo” covered the land deal in greater depth. Apparently his company bought the 328.6 square meter (3527 sq. foot) plot in Barueri a city of 300,000 people in March 1998 and an official land appraiser evaluated the lot as being worth R$ 17.3 million ($ 8.6 million). Dersa, the state highway department, agreed to pay him R$ 5.27 million ($2.63 million) for a 189.7 sq. meter (2042 sq. foot) portion of the lot for which he received R$ 4.13 million at the time of his death. Dersa’s legal director said the R$ 17.3 evaluation was unacceptable taking local real estate values into account and suspected the appraiser was involved in something suspect. Federal and state prosecutors were investigating the disapropriations, because they found the high values paid suspicious.

http://www.sptrans.com.br/clipping_anterio...ina1.htm#Geral4

Nassar’s huge windfall was also reported in a business and finance magazine

http://www.terra.com.br/istoedinheiro/264/...os_rodoanel.htm

Either Nassar 1) got very lucky, 2) was very smart and well informed a year after arriving in the country or 3) was involved in some sort of criminally corrupt deal. Based on his past and knowing how things work here and the state and federal investigations and the fact that the evaluated price comes out to over $4200/sq. foot (about 10X the average price in Manhattan) I believe the latter is the most likely which I can imagine a few scenarios i) the seller was forced to sell the land for less than it was worth ii) Nassar benefited from insider information iii) the appraiser could have been paid off to super evaluate the value of the land, state highway officials probably would have been involved as well, the fact that he settled for less than a third the accessed price seems to indicate he knew it was over valued iv) it could have been part of a money laundering scheme. iii) seems to be the most likely option.

In the case first two scenarios the seller could have killed Nassar for revenge, under all scenarios other people involved in the scam might have wanted him dead so he couldn’t implicate them.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

(that includes the USS Liberty, accident or no accident).

No because if it was an accident, as the evidence indicates it was, they though they were attacking enemy forces during wartime, most of the Americans died after the Liberty open fire on the Israeli MTB’s. By your logic the British are murders too because RAF pilots killed the crewmen of 6 British navy ships off the coast of France after D-Day and British Navy pilots attacked the HMS Sheffield thinking it was the very different and much larger Bismark.

I don't think the 'evidence indicates' the Liberty incident was an accident. I still believe the IDF knew who they were attacking. Please address any reply to that threrad.

Choose the most appropriate option below to complete the sentence below (use a #2 pencil)

It’s ____________ bring up the Liberty on this thread and then complain it’s off topic when I reply.

1) hypocritical of you to

2) funny that you

3) ironic that you

4) hypocritical of you and funny and ironic that you

"This murder has similarities to the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer and, as in that case, I don't believe any official story about her being a random, unfortunate victim of a deranged lone nut killer. Someone else wanted her dead and there was nothing random about it, imo."

Too bad for you that you have absolutely zero evidence to back your belief (regarding the Lindh case). In this respect you are not very different from people who “don’t believe any official story about” evolution, the Holocaust or the Moon landings except they have been able to rationalize pseudo scientific/historical evidence to back their “theories”. Perhaps a better comparison would be to superstitious Brazilians who’ve told me things like throwing cold water into a very hot pan then drinking it cures hiccups or that showering after eating pig meat is life threatening, even being shown contrary evidence (people drinking “shocked water” not getting better and people who survived post-pork chop showers) doesn’t shake their beliefs.

An absurd rant--even by your standards.

Thanks for making my point that you have a tendency to believe things are true without being able to state why. Cite your reasons (if you actually have any) for believing: 1) that what I wrote was “An absurd rant” 2) the Lindh “murder has similarities to the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer” and 3) there is reason to doubt the “official” explanation of Lindh’s murder. Till you do my comparison of you to my mother-in-law stands.

"Mattei was definitely murdered. A bomb was planted on his plane, imo. I never said I suspected Israel to be involved in Mattei's death. The oil industry, in particular Texas, had strong motivation to kill this dangerous threat to future profits. He was the subject of an interesting thread in 2005:"

You’re sure he was murdered because you think there was a bomb on his plane? I looked at the thread and saw nothing conclusive. As with Pinchot and Hammarskjold his death may well have been a hit but I have yet to see compelling evidence. I never indicated I thought you suspected Israel

I find it incredible that you could doubt that Mattei was murdered. Why don't you post that on the Mattei thread--if you're game. Put your name on that thread and say you find 'nothing conclusive' that shows he was murdered--I dare ya'. The background circumstances surrounding Mattei's death make it almost a certainty, imo. Your stubborn refusal to put two and two together makes me think you just like arguing for the sake of arguing.

To tell the truth I only skimmed the thread, I might have missed whatever compelling evidence there was. When I find the time I’ll read it more carefully. Once I have done so I’ll comment either way.