Was Lee Oswald in Montreal in 1963?

[James Richards]

Seems the HSCA had an interest in not only McLarry, but also (at least) one other in the photo... FNU Seely.

See Seely photo here

Is the HSCA the sourse of the names of those in the photo? In both cases, Seely's first name is listed as unknown, which made me think it might be...

Greg,

(FNU) Seeling may have been Tom Seeling. The HSCA's interest was something that made him a curiosity to me some time back. I do think there were some suspicious characters who infiltrated the CNVA but I am not sure of their real motives. Members of the Minutemen did target them which included burning a rural barn in Connecticut where CNVA records and photographs were held.

Tom Seeling's background is a real mystery. There may be a Canadian/Texas connection to Arturo Espaillat but I have not been able to confirm it.

FWIW (not much unfortunately).

James

[Greg Parker]

Maurice:

The photos were not taken in Montreal, but in some countryside at an unspecified location. They may show persons that have participated at some events in Montreal, but the pictures were not taken during those events. The reality is that the pictures in the countryside were taken on June 7 and 8 but the QWG leaved town days earlier, around May 26.

My guess is that the photo was taken in Albany, NY. One of the marchers, Barbara Deming, noted in her memoirs that "Fred Moore, 22 of California. Not a member of the walk, but served two days, first jail-in. A friend of the walkers, passing through Albany on his way to Florida to spend Christmas with his family, he went to the jail to inquire about the arrests, and was held himself for investigation."

Moore's full name though was Fred Moore, Jr. The Fred Moore identified by Tremblay was, as noted in the FBI report, from San Antonio. Both men have been identified as being in the photo.

The problem here is that Fred Moore isn't the one who looked like Oswald. That was Moore, Jr... and the inference to be drawn from Deming is that Junior was not in Montreal.

The other problem for me is that the Oswald "double" does not appear to have actually used that name. At least none of the documents I've read make that claim.

James:

(FNU) Seeling may have been Tom Seeling. The HSCA's interest was something that made him a curiosity to me some time back. I do think there were some suspicious characters who infiltrated the CNVA but I am not sure of their real motives.

I think McLarry was very likely one of Walkers boys. As for Seeling... I really don't like to judge people by how they look... but if pushed, I'd say he looks more like a Minuteman than a peacenik.

One web source on the origin of surnames cites Shakespeare as using seeling to denote a conman. A clever alias, or coincidence? The former may explain the lack of background...

Edited April 23, 2006 by Greg Parker

[Maurice Philipps]

My guess is that the photo was taken in Albany, NY. One of the marchers, Barbara Deming, noted in her memoirs that "Fred Moore, 22 of California. Not a member of the walk, but served two days, first jail-in. A friend of the walkers, passing through Albany on his way to Florida to spend Christmas with his family, he went to the jail to inquire about the arrests, and was held himself for investigation."

Moore's full name though was Fred Moore, Jr. The Fred Moore identified by Tremblay was, as noted in the FBI report, from San Antonio. Both men have been identified as being in the photo.

The problem here is that Fred Moore isn't the one who looked like Oswald. That was Moore, Jr... and the inference to be drawn from Deming is that Junior was not in Montreal.

Just a quick correction: The Albany city refferred to by Deming is Albany, Georgia where the walk was stopped and participants jailed. Since the pictures were said to come from RCMP, I believed they were taken on the Canadian side of the border, somewhere in Ontario.

A note about Moore. Fred Moore Sr was a Air Force officer and in no way was near the QWG walk. Fred Moore Jr seems to be on the picture and would be the fifth from left, the one behind the car. But, he is not the own that was saw with Oswald in Montreal. According to the FBI report, Tremblay pointed toward character #1 on the picture, the first one at left. The FBI falsely identified this man as Moore, but it isn't him. According to Brad Lyttle's comment, posted at the start of this thread, it would be Bruce Henderson.

Now a question for James Richards: this thread starts with a better quality print of the picture that I posted on my blog. I had mine from the National Archives in College Park. It was coming from a photo album furnished by the RCMP and the pictures had numbers on each of the walkers. Your picture doesn't have those numbers: where does it come from?

Thanks,

Maurice

[Shanet Clark]

Seems the HSCA had an interest in not only McLarry, but also (at least) one other in the photo... FNU Seely.

See Seely photo here

Is the HSCA the sourse of the names of those in the photo? In both cases, Seely's first name is listed as unknown, which made me think it might be...

Unidentified #87 looks like Watergate figure Jeb Stuart Magruder//////

[James Richards]

Now a question for James Richards: this thread starts with a better quality print of the picture that I posted on my blog. I had mine from the National Archives in College Park. It was coming from a photo album furnished by the RCMP and the pictures had numbers on each of the walkers. Your picture doesn't have those numbers: where does it come from? (Maurice Philipps)

Sorry, Maurice, I am going to have to keep that to myself for now.

I am not trying to be a smart ass but I sincerely hope that in my lifetime we can solve many of the aspects surrounding the assassination and then the assassination itself. With that in mind and like most things in life, it is all about timing.

To quote a well used phrase, "the truth is out there."

James

[Greg Parker]

My guess is that the photo was taken in Albany, NY. One of the marchers, Barbara Deming, noted in her memoirs that "Fred Moore, 22 of California. Not a member of the walk, but served two days, first jail-in. A friend of the walkers, passing through Albany on his way to Florida to spend Christmas with his family, he went to the jail to inquire about the arrests, and was held himself for investigation."

Moore's full name though was Fred Moore, Jr. The Fred Moore identified by Tremblay was, as noted in the FBI report, from San Antonio. Both men have been identified as being in the photo.

The problem here is that Fred Moore isn't the one who looked like Oswald. That was Moore, Jr... and the inference to be drawn from Deming is that Junior was not in Montreal.

Just a quick correction: The Albany city refferred to by Deming is Albany, Georgia where the walk was stopped and participants jailed. Since the pictures were said to come from RCMP, I believed they were taken on the Canadian side of the border, somewhere in Ontario.

A note about Moore. Fred Moore Sr was a Air Force officer and in no way was near the QWG walk. Fred Moore Jr seems to be on the picture and would be the fifth from left, the one behind the car. But, he is not the own that was saw with Oswald in Montreal. According to the FBI report, Tremblay pointed toward character #1 on the picture, the first one at left. The FBI falsely identified this man as Moore, but it isn't him. According to Brad Lyttle's comment, posted at the start of this thread, it would be Bruce Henderson.

Thanks,

Maurice

Maurice, thanks for the correction on Albany. Not being from the US, I was unaware of any other Albany except the one in NY. Just another lesson in making assumptions.

I was aware that Junior's father was a USAF officer. Another assumption I made however (and one which you might correct) was that the Fred Moore identified as #1 (mistakenly or otherwise) was not Junior's father, but just someone who happened to have the same name - and unlike Junior - was one of the marchers.

So... was there a Fred Moore who was a marcher or not?

The problem with placing the photo back in Canada is that it puts it at odds with Deming who clearly indicates Junior was not with them, but merely stopped in Albany to see them on his way to Florida.

Another question you may be able to clarify for me: Is there any document you've seen which indicates the alleged Oswald double in Montreal actually used the name Oswald?

If the answer to that is "no" and Deming's account is correct, I think it does leave the whole "impersonator" scenario somewhat less likely.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Maurice, thanks for the correction on Albany. Not being from the US, I was unaware of any other Albany except the one in NY. Just another lesson in making assumptions.

I was aware that Junior's father was a USAF officer. Another assumption I made however (and one which you might correct) was that the Fred Moore identified as #1 (mistakenly or otherwise) was not Junior's father, but just someone who happened to have the same name - and unlike Junior - was one of the marchers.

So... was there a Fred Moore who was a marcher or not?

Greg, it seems that there was a Fred Moore who marched, and his commitment to peace issues seems to have been a lifelong one. Oddly, if he were the son of a USAF officer, this Fred Moore seems to have actively defied the draft and encouraged others to do so as well. Must have made for some nifty dinner-table conversations...

See:

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/DG.../DG017CNVA.html

http://hasbrouck.org/draft/

and

http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0508/050814.htm

Edward Hasbrouck seems to have known Fred Moore well and could likely identify him if his image is contained in one of the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo photos.

The problem with placing the photo back in Canada is that it puts it at odds with Deming who clearly indicates Junior was not with them, but merely stopped in Albany to see them on his way to Florida.

The FBI documents make it clear that the photos shown to US Customs officer Tremblay were taken in early June, 1963. Moreover, FBI specifically states that the photos shown to Tremblay were taken in Montreal, to wit: "Photographs of persons participating.... in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963 were shown to Mr. Tremblay...." There is always the possibility of an error, but this seems fairly clearcut, barring evidence to the contrary.

Another question you may be able to clarify for me: Is there any document you've seen which indicates the alleged Oswald double in Montreal actually used the name Oswald?

In years of searching out this topic, I've seen no such document. However, as the Tremblay/Chasse memos make clear, "...several persons had contacted his office and stated that LEE OSWALD had been seen distributing pamphlets entitled “Fair Play for Cuba,” on St. Jacques and McGill Streets in Montreal during the summer of 1963." Consequently, whether accurate or not, Tremblay was not the only individual to reach this conclusion.

Moreover, another highly credible witness [the Canadian equivalent of a District Attorney] was travelling in Montreal and reported having seen the same thing, and positively ID-ed OSWALD as the chap handing out the FPCC pamphlets. Maurice and I are each independently poring through boxes of our respective files in order to locate these reports. While my memory may be failing me, I recall one such report [witness name unrecalled] that stated the man handing out FPCC pamplets in Montreal was wearing a US naval uniform at the time. That doesn't mean it was Oswald, but would make the event far more provocative, and at the very least suggests a possible attempt to implicate Oswald, particularly if the facial similarity was sufficient to induce Tremblay to believe that he had encountered Oswald there.

One week after US Customs Officer Tremblay presumably received his FPCC pamphlets in Montreal [according to the FBI's reconstructed time-table from the photos], "LHO" was handing out FPCC handbills on a New Orleans wharf to Navy personnel aboard the USS Wasp, which was moored there. [When dusted for prints, none of the NOLA handbills bore a LHO print.] It would have been accomodating of the FBI to procure the handbills received by Tremblay in Montreal and compare them to the ones seized on the New Orleans docks, but if such a rudimentary investigative procedure was undertaken, I've found no indication of it as yet.

If the answer to that is "no" and Deming's account is correct, I think it does leave the whole "impersonator" scenario somewhat less likely.

Somebody in Montreal handed out FPCC literature, and he sufficiently resembled Oswald that Tremblay and several others mistook the one for the other. It may ultimately prove that it was all coincidental, but in a case already claustrophic with coincidences, we cannot merely assume it to have been so.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Duplicate post... oops. Face is red...

Edited April 24, 2006 by Robert Charles-Dunne

[James Richards]

I have heard that one of the CNVA marchers who began the trek in Canada committed suicide in one of the U.S. southern states. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, are there details on who it was and where?

James

[Greg Parker]

Greg, it seems that there was a Fred Moore who marched, and his commitment to peace issues seems to have been a lifelong one. Oddly, if he were the son of a USAF officer, this Fred Moore seems to have actively defied the draft and encouraged others to do so as well. Must have made for some nifty dinner-table conversations...

See:

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/DG.../DG017CNVA.html

http://hasbrouck.org/draft/

and

http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0508/050814.htm

Edward Hasbrouck seems to have known Fred Moore well and could likely identify him if his image is contained in one of the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo photos.

Robert, Hasbrouck's article does clearly say Junior took part in the QWG march. I imagine he should be able to identify Moore, if indeed it is Moore, in the photo. He could also be quoted the passage in Barbara Deming's book about Moore not being one of the marchers, but merely stopping in to see them in Albany(she, no longer being alive, is past commenting on it herself) for his thoughts on why she wrote that. The book is titled Prisons That Could Not Hold. Moore ref. is on page 184.

The FBI documents make it clear that the photos shown to US Customs officer Tremblay were taken in early June, 1963. Moreover, FBI specifically states that the photos shown to Tremblay were taken in Montreal, to wit: "Photographs of persons participating.... in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963 were shown to Mr. Tremblay...." There is always the possibility of an error, but this seems fairly clearcut, barring evidence to the contrary.

Here is what Maurice said in post #15 "The photos were not taken in Montreal, but in some countryside at an unspecified location. They may show persons that have participated at some events in Montreal, but the pictures were not taken during those events. The reality is that the pictures in the countryside were taken on June 7 and 8 but the QWG leaved town days earlier, around May 26. So inferring that Oswald was seen at the date the picture where shot is grossly deceptive."

And here is the full quote from FBI

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Let's look what happens when the word "taken" is inserted.

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal taken on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Being a high school drop-out, I dunno if that's correct grammar, but to my mind at least, it could now be read as meaning - as Marice suggests - that the photo was taken on June 7 or 8, and shows some of those who were present in Montreal - not necessarily indicating that the photo was taken in Montreal.

I think it's at least possible, if not plausible, that the word "taken" was simply left out - accidently or otherwise.

In years of searching out this topic, I've seen no such document. However, as the Tremblay/Chasse memos make clear, "...several persons had contacted his office and stated that LEE OSWALD had been seen distributing pamphlets entitled “Fair Play for Cuba,” on St. Jacques and McGill Streets in Montreal during the summer of 1963." Consequently, whether accurate or not, Tremblay was not the only individual to reach this conclusion.

Moreover, another highly credible witness [the Canadian equivalent of a District Attorney] was travelling in Montreal and reported having seen the same thing, and positively ID-ed OSWALD as the chap handing out the FPCC pamphlets. Maurice and I are each independently poring through boxes of our respective files in order to locate these reports. While my memory may be failing me, I recall one such report [witness name unrecalled] that stated the man handing out FPCC pamplets in Montreal was wearing a US naval uniform at the time. That doesn't mean it was Oswald, but would make the event far more provocative, and at the very least suggests a possible attempt to implicate Oswald, particularly if the facial similarity was sufficient to induce Tremblay to believe that he had encountered Oswald there.

One week after US Customs Officer Tremblay presumably received his FPCC pamphlets in Montreal [according to the FBI's reconstructed time-table from the photos], "LHO" was handing out FPCC handbills on a New Orleans wharf to Navy personnel aboard the USS Wasp, which was moored there. [When dusted for prints, none of the NOLA handbills bore a LHO print.] It would have been accomodating of the FBI to procure the handbills received by Tremblay in Montreal and compare them to the ones seized on the New Orleans docks, but if such a rudimentary investigative procedure was undertaken, I've found no indication of it as yet.

Somebody in Montreal handed out FPCC literature, and he sufficiently resembled Oswald that Tremblay and several others mistook the one for the other. It may ultimately prove that it was all coincidental, but in a case already claustrophic with coincidences, we cannot merely assume it to have been so.

You, James and Maurice have undoubtedly researched this way beyond my meagre efforts. That you all remain convinced there's something here is hard to get around, given that you and James (and I suspect Maurice also) are tenacious, not given to chasing apparations, and are thoroughly thorough. I therefore remain open to it, but at this point, still lean (albeit less certainly) to someone resembling Oswald in a classic case of mistaken identity. I also think the post-Tremblay FBI cover-up was possibly no more than protecting the fact that they (or cohorts in some r-w org) had infiltrated the group.

[Maurice Philipps]

That was the same post.. Sorry.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Maurice Philipps

[Maurice Philipps]

The FBI documents make it clear that the photos shown to US Customs officer Tremblay were taken in early June, 1963. Moreover, FBI specifically states that the photos shown to Tremblay were taken in Montreal, to wit: "Photographs of persons participating.... in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963 were shown to Mr. Tremblay...." There is always the possibility of an error, but this seems fairly clearcut, barring evidence to the contrary.

Here is what Maurice said in post #15 "The photos were not taken in Montreal, but in some countryside at an unspecified location. They may show persons that have participated at some events in Montreal, but the pictures were not taken during those events. The reality is that the pictures in the countryside were taken on June 7 and 8 but the QWG leaved town days earlier, around May 26. So inferring that Oswald was seen at the date the picture where shot is grossly deceptive."

And here is the full quote from FBI

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Let's look what happens when the word "taken" is inserted.

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal taken on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Being a high school drop-out, I dunno if that's correct grammar, but to my mind at least, it could now be read as meaning - as Marice suggests - that the photo was taken on June 7 or 8, and shows some of those who were present in Montreal - not necessarily indicating that the photo was taken in Montreal.

I think it's at least possible, if not plausible, that the word "taken" was simply left out - accidently or otherwise.

One week after US Customs Officer Tremblay presumably received his FPCC pamphlets in Montreal [according to the FBI's reconstructed time-table from the photos], "LHO" was handing out FPCC handbills on a New Orleans wharf to Navy personnel aboard the USS Wasp, which was moored there. [When dusted for prints, none of the NOLA handbills bore a LHO print.] It would have been accomodating of the FBI to procure the handbills received by Tremblay in Montreal and compare them to the ones seized on the New Orleans docks, but if such a rudimentary investigative procedure was undertaken, I've found no indication of it as yet. [/color]

Somebody in Montreal handed out FPCC literature, and he sufficiently resembled Oswald that Tremblay and several others mistook the one for the other. It may ultimately prove that it was all coincidental, but in a case already claustrophic with coincidences, we cannot merely assume it to have been so.

Thanks Greg, the way you insert the word taken give a better explanation of my idea about the FBI report.

What would help to rule out or corroborate the possibility of Oswald being in Montreal would be to establish a firm chronology of his New Orleans activities prior to May 26, 1963. If they were enough good hard report placing him in NO at this time, I will favor the theory that Tremblay was wrong and that an Oswald look-alike was in Montreal. But since Oswald's activities after he left Marina Dallas and before he started his FPCC actions in NO are not so well documented, I tend to think Tremblay might be right on his identification. (A last note, there is no report of anybody using the name Oswald in Montreal, maybe there was a look-alike but, to my knowledge no personificator.)

Edward Hasbrouck seems to have known Fred Moore well and could likely identify him if his image is contained in one of the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo photos.[/color]

Robert, Hasbrouck's article does clearly say Junior took part in the QWG march. I imagine he should be able to identify Moore, if indeed it is Moore, in the photo. He could also be quoted the passage in Barbara Deming's book about Moore not being one of the marchers, but merely stopping in to see them in Albany(she, no longer being alive, is past commenting on it herself) for his thoughts on why she wrote that. The book is titled Prisons That Could Not Hold. Moore ref. is on page 184.

You may excuse me not to give you the exact reference, but on the subject of Fred Moore Jr being at the beginning of the QWG walk, there is somewhere a clear reference of him trespassing on an Air Force base in upstate New York in the first days of the walk. The thing is Moore had probably separated from the walk when it was down south and he may have join it in Albany, Georgia. Remember that there was approximately 5 months between the start of the walk in May and the troubles the walkers encountered in October-November. So it would be an error to imply from Deming account that Moore never was in the walk before he stopped to see them in Albany.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Maurice Philipps

[Maurice Philipps]

Looking back in my files, I have found three more documents that were kept away from the public and that I had copied at the National Archives in College Park, Maryland.

The two first reports related to an inquiry made by the FBI on words that a Windsor attorney, Roger Desrosiers, circulated about the presence of Oswald in Montreal.

They basicly stated that:

At 2:05 P.M., November 26, 1963, Clerk ROBERT HAGER received a telephone call from Attorney RICHARD MAC RAE, 1012 (…) BuildIng, telephone Wo. ,1—9250, Detroit, Michigan.

MAC RAE advised that he had recently been in conversation with attorney ROGER DES ROSIERS, Guardian Trust Building, Windsor, Ontario, telephone CL. 3—1611, who advised that he had received information indicating that LEE H. OSWALD had been seen in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, at the time the FLQ terrorists were placing bombs in that city.

At 2:25 November 26, 1963, SA MELVILLE H. SHANNON telephonically contacted ROGER DES ROSIERS and was advised by him that above information was not accurate. DES ROSIERS stated that he had heard the rumor from unconfirmed sources that LEE H, OSWALD had at some unspecified time been at Montreal, Quebec, engaged in a “Ban-the-Bomb” protest . He advised that he could not recall his original source and had no further information in his possession regarding OSWALD or captioned matter.

Unfortunately the FBI didn't make a good job at finding the sources for this rumor and were satisfied that Desrosiers "could not recall the original source", something a little hard to swallow. Most probably- the FBI didn't want the source to be known.

Fortunately, the day after this report, on November 27, 1963, a newspaper article triggered more curiosity from many US officials. As we can see in the next document, even if the article was quicly ruled as unfounded, it was taken seriously by high ranking US officials. Look for yourself at the following telegram sent to the Departement of State by the United States Consul General in Canada.

The text of this airgram is quite interesting:

On November 27, 1963 the final edition of The Montreal Star carried a story, subsequently declared unfounded, that Lee Harvey Oswald had paraded in the ban the bomb demonstrations last summer and suggested that he may have taken part in demonstrations in front of the United States Consulate at the time of the United States quarantine of Cuba. The story was ascribed to a police officer who declined to be identified. However, there may be something to the story.

We have been informed by the Senior U.S. Customs Representative - that his office has been contacted by several persons who have advised that Oswald was seen in Montreal last summer distributing pamphlets entitled Fair Play for Cuba at St. Jacques and McGill Streets. The Senior Customs Representative informs us that Mr. Jean Paul Tremblay, Investigator, Customs and Excise, Montreal informed. him on November 27, 196) that he received one of the above-mentioned pamphlets from a man on St. Jacques Street, Montreal, believed to be in August 1963, and he is positive that this person was Oswald. Mr. Tremblay also stated that Oswald was accompanied at the time by a short, homely, heavy woman who took unusually long steps when walking and two men about Oswald’s age and weight. One of these two men is described as a little taller than Oswald and has a freckled face. Mr. Tremblay also stated that he believes he could identify the three persons that accompanied Oswald and that the reason for paying special attention to these persons was because he was working on cases involving Cuba at the time. Mr. Tremblay has asked that he be protected as a source. The Senior Customs Representative today, has reported this information to Secret Service authorities in Washington. Jerome T. Gaspard, United States Consul General

From the Consul text, it appears that there would be two differents sources to the story: the police officer that was at the origin of the Montreal Star article and Jean-Paul Tremblay the Canadian Customs investigator. It is possible that Tremblay was referred by the Montreal Star as a police officer and was the source of the newspaper story, but it seems more likely that there was more than one official agent that remembered having seen Oswald in Montreal during a pro-Cuba manifestation.

It is interesting to note that the American Consul in Canada expressed the opinion that "However, there may be something to the story." We already saw that the Jean-Paul Tremblay's report was took seriously enough by Lawrence Fleishman and Aurelien Chassé, of the US Treasury department and that both the FBI and the RCMP meet and investigate the case. Now this last document shows us that even the United States Consul General was under the impression that "there may be something to the story".

Since at that time peoples from Montreal -high placed in US government offices- gave credence to those reports, maybe researchers should open their mind to the possibility that Lee Harvey Oswald came up north in the Spring of 1963.

[Greg Parker]

The FBI documents make it clear that the photos shown to US Customs officer Tremblay were taken in early June, 1963. Moreover, FBI specifically states that the photos shown to Tremblay were taken in Montreal, to wit: "Photographs of persons participating.... in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963 were shown to Mr. Tremblay...." There is always the possibility of an error, but this seems fairly clearcut, barring evidence to the contrary.

Here is what Maurice said in post #15 "The photos were not taken in Montreal, but in some countryside at an unspecified location. They may show persons that have participated at some events in Montreal, but the pictures were not taken during those events. The reality is that the pictures in the countryside were taken on June 7 and 8 but the QWG leaved town days earlier, around May 26. So inferring that Oswald was seen at the date the picture where shot is grossly deceptive."

And here is the full quote from FBI

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Let's look what happens when the word "taken" is inserted.

“Photographs of persons participating in the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo Walk for Peace in Montreal taken on June 7 and 8, 1963, were shown to Mr. Tremblay..."

Being a high school drop-out, I dunno if that's correct grammar, but to my mind at least, it could now be read as meaning - as Marice suggests - that the photo was taken on June 7 or 8, and shows some of those who were present in Montreal - not necessarily indicating that the photo was taken in Montreal.

I think it's at least possible, if not plausible, that the word "taken" was simply left out - accidently or otherwise.

One week after US Customs Officer Tremblay presumably received his FPCC pamphlets in Montreal [according to the FBI's reconstructed time-table from the photos], "LHO" was handing out FPCC handbills on a New Orleans wharf to Navy personnel aboard the USS Wasp, which was moored there. [When dusted for prints, none of the NOLA handbills bore a LHO print.] It would have been accomodating of the FBI to procure the handbills received by Tremblay in Montreal and compare them to the ones seized on the New Orleans docks, but if such a rudimentary investigative procedure was undertaken, I've found no indication of it as yet. [/color]

Somebody in Montreal handed out FPCC literature, and he sufficiently resembled Oswald that Tremblay and several others mistook the one for the other. It may ultimately prove that it was all coincidental, but in a case already claustrophic with coincidences, we cannot merely assume it to have been so.

Thanks Greg, the way you insert the word taken give a better explanation of my idea about the FBI report.

What would help to rule out or corroborate the possibility of Oswald being in Montreal would be to establish a firm chronology of his New Orleans activities prior to May 26, 1963. If they were enough good hard report placing him in NO at this time, I will favor the theory that Tremblay was wrong and that an Oswald look-alike was in Montreal. But since Oswald's activities after he left Marina Dallas and before he started his FPCC actions in NO are not so well documented, I tend to think Tremblay might be right on his identification. (A last note, there is no report of anybody using the name Oswald in Montreal, maybe there was a look-alike but, to my knowledge no personificator.)

Edward Hasbrouck seems to have known Fred Moore well and could likely identify him if his image is contained in one of the Quebec-Washington-Guantanamo photos.[/color]

Robert, Hasbrouck's article does clearly say Junior took part in the QWG march. I imagine he should be able to identify Moore, if indeed it is Moore, in the photo. He could also be quoted the passage in Barbara Deming's book about Moore not being one of the marchers, but merely stopping in to see them in Albany(she, no longer being alive, is past commenting on it herself) for his thoughts on why she wrote that. The book is titled Prisons That Could Not Hold. Moore ref. is on page 184.

You may excuse me not to give you the exact reference, but on the subject of Fred Moore Jr being at the beginning of the QWG walk, there is somewhere a clear reference of him trespassing on an Air Force base in upstate New York in the first days of the walk. The thing is Moore had probably separated from the walk when it was down south and he may have join it in Albany, Georgia. Remember that there was approximately 5 months between the start of the walk in May and the troubles the walkers encountered in October-November. So it would be an error to imply from Deming account that Moore never was in the walk before he stopped to see them in Albany.

Maurice, thanks for trying to clear this up for me (thanks also to Robert and James for their efforts). I admit I'm still having some difficulty getting my head around it. The main problem I'm having is that there seems to be more than one source citing Fred Moore, Jr as one of the marchers - this being at odds with Barbara Dening's recollection. Dening, from what I've read of her, was well respected, loved and admired for her life-long commitment to peace. I just can't image her trying to cover up Fred Moore. Jr's involvement as a Oswald impersonator in Montreal.

Starting on page 183 she lists all those (in alpha order) who were jailed in Albany. Moore's entry in this list appears on the following page and states:

FRED MOORE, 22, of California. Not a member of the Walk, but served two days first jail-in. A friend of the walkers, passing through Albany on his way to Florida to spend Christams with his family, he went to jail to inquire about the arrests, and was held himself, for investigation.

Erica Enzer (the lady with the long stride) who was supposedly with Oswald/"Oswald" in Montreal handing out the leaflets, likewise, was much loved and admired for her total commitment to the cause. Why would she go along with such a scheme unless she too, was an infiltrator for the "other side"? If she wasn't (and it's fairly certain she wasn't) and she simply had no idea she was entangled in some type of operation at the time, she would have surely worked it out after the assassination and reported it.

To add to my confusion/difficulty... there seems to be another Fred Moore involved - this one from San Antonio. It's either been suggested, or I've inferred (rightly or wrongly) - that this was supposed to be Jr's father. However, I do not think he was. His family (presumably including his father) apparently lived in Florida.

After the assassination, people reported remembering seeing Oswald all over the place ... Philadelphia, Montreal, Ohio, various places in Texas, and in Florida to name just a few. Should we accept all of these sightings as real sightings of Oswald (or a real Oswald impersonator)? Some of them? None of them?

Looking at them case by case, some are clearly more likely "real" sightings than others. The Montreal one remains, to me at any rate, in the "too-hard" basket.

I do remain open on it, though, and look forward to seeing whatever further you choose to post here or on your blog.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Greg Parker

[Maurice Philipps]

Maurice, thanks for trying to clear this up for me (thanks also to Robert and James for their efforts). I admit I'm still having some difficulty getting my head around it. The main problem I'm having is that there seems to be more than one source citing Fred Moore, Jr as one of the marchers - this being at odds with Barbara Dening's recollection. Dening, from what I've read of her, was well respected, loved and admired for her life-long commitment to peace. I just can't image her trying to cover up Fred Moore. Jr's involvement as a Oswald impersonator in Montreal.

Starting on page 183 she lists all those (in alpha order) who were jailed in Albany. Moore's entry in this list appears on the following page and states:

FRED MOORE, 22, of California. Not a member of the Walk, but served two days first jail-in. A friend of the walkers, passing through Albany on his way to Florida to spend Christams with his family, he went to jail to inquire about the arrests, and was held himself, for investigation.

Erica Enzer (the lady with the long stride) who was supposedly with Oswald/"Oswald" in Montreal handing out the leaflets, likewise, was much loved and admired for her total commitment to the cause. Why would she go along with such a scheme unless she too, was an infiltrator for the "other side"? If she wasn't (and it's fairly certain she wasn't) and she simply had no idea she was entangled in some type of operation at the time, she would have surely worked it out after the assassination and reported it.

To add to my confusion/difficulty... there seems to be another Fred Moore involved - this one from San Antonio. It's either been suggested, or I've inferred (rightly or wrongly) - that this was supposed to be Jr's father. However, I do not think he was. His family (presumably including his father) apparently lived in Florida.

After the assassination, people reported remembering seeing Oswald all over the place ... Philadelphia, Montreal, Ohio, various places in Texas, and in Florida to name just a few. Should we accept all of these sightings as real sightings of Oswald (or a real Oswald impersonator)? Some of them? None of them?

Looking at them case by case, some are clearly more likely "real" sightings than others. The Montreal one remains, to me at any rate, in the "too-hard" basket.

I do remain open on it, though, and look forward to seeing whatever further you choose to post here or on your blog.

I really don't think that any of the real walkers did go along with anything. My opinion is that Oswald (or maybe some look alike) just posed with them in order to give himself some credential in the eyes of people from the central FPCC or most likely in the eyes of Cuban officials. Since doing a good impression on FPCC could have been achieve anywhere in the US, I think the reason of the trip to Montreal was to be seen by Cuban officials that had a legation there, but not anymore in the US. I don't think he went as far as taking contact with them like he did in Mexico, we would have report of that.

I don't think that Oswald really tried infiltration of the Peace movement, if so I'm sure we would had reports of it surfaced by now.

One last thing, from emails exchange I had with people in the Walk, it seems a fact that Fred Moore Jr was at the beginning of the Walk, and that he was the only Fred Moore. The FBI report probably gave the two addresses in San Antonio and Filmore, California because Fred Jr previously lived with his father in San Antonio, but was now in California.