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The First Shot and that broken Daltex window


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#16 Bill Miller

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 03:39 PM

Robert,

Want to hear what more an "Idiot" like me can tell you concerning what a Sheriff reported about hearing the shots ................
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT

Name of Complainant
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Offense
Officer A. D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office

Date: Nov. 22, 1963

I was standing at the front entrance of the Dallas Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas as the President's motorcade passed and was watching the remainder of the parade pass when I heard a retort and I immediately recognized it as the sound of a rifle. I started running around the corner where I knew the President's car should be and in a matter of a few seconds heard a second shot and then a third shot.


Officer Marion Baker said when asked about the spacing of the shots...

Mr. BELIN - Do you have any time estimate as to the spacing of any of these shots?
Mr. BAKER - It seemed to me like they just went bang, bang, bang; they were pretty well even to me.

Edited by Bill Miller, 18 October 2010 - 04:13 PM.


#17 Robert Harris

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:06 PM

Robert,

Want to hear what more an "Idiot" like me can tell you concerning what a Sheriff reported about hearing the shots ................
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT

Name of Complainant
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Offense
Officer A. D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office

Date: Nov. 22, 1963

I was standing at the front entrance of the Dallas Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas as the President's motorcade passed and was watching the remainder of the parade pass when I heard a retort and I immediately recognized it as the sound of a rifle. I started running around the corner where I knew the President's car should be and in a matter of a few seconds heard a second shot and then a third shot.


Officer Marion Baker said when asked about the spacing of the shots...

Mr. BELIN - Do you have any time estimate as to the spacing of any of these shots?
Mr. BAKER - It seemed to me like they just went bang, bang, bang; they were pretty well even to me.


Bill, what planet are you posting from???

You seem to think that I said none of the cops heard more than one shot. MOST witnesses reported three shots, including most law enforcement people.

And I said that NONE Of the law enforcement people reported that the early shots were closer together than than the final ones.

I have been posting in forums since the early 90's and have never encountered someone who was so totally oblivious to what is going on. Why don't you actually view my presentations so that you a clue about what to attack?

#18 Bill Miller

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:11 PM

Bill, what planet are you posting from???

You seem to think that I said none of the cops heard more than one shot. MOST witnesses reported three shots, including most law enforcement people.

And I said that NONE Of the law enforcement people reported that the early shots were closer together than than the final ones.

I have been posting in forums since the early 90's and have never encountered someone who was so totally oblivious to what is going on. Why don't you actually view my presentations so that you a clue about what to attack?


Listen, Robert ... you have been discussing in-audible shots to only one shot being heard at first and two later close together. In my previous response I mentioned one officer who said the shots were evenly spaced, thus your unfounded speculation has been addressed.

As far as no one hearing the shot that hit Connally at Z223/224 .... I disagree. (read below)
Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands.
He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no, no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his right--the second shot was fired and hit him.

Talking about hearing the second shot and seeing Connally driven down ... Connally's instant grimace and forward shoulder movement at Z223/24 has been covered thoroughly in the archives. Holland said the following about Connally being hit which appears to have come immediately after JFK was hit ...
Mr. HOLLAND - And another report rang out and he slumped down in his seat,

Now I have referenced people and officers who were at different locations to the shooting and where the President was at the time they heard the first shot. I must ask you now to state what witness said that a shot hit the pavement at Z160 so we can check out their position in relation to when they saw a bullet hit the pavement rather than merely relying to you telling where the car was when it happened.

Thanks!

Bill

Robert Harris: "Your argument totally evades JFK's reactions then. Why did he begin to wave and then pull his hand back within one half of a second, balling it into a fist? Why did he fall to his left and then straighten back up? Those are not actions that any of us would carry out during a Sunday drive in the park. What caused JFK to react like that???

No-one heard that shot, including JFK. And in fact, most witnesses heard only one shot, prior to the very end of the attack. Even the WC admitted that, in spite of the fact that tests conducted by the HSCA proved that shots from Oswald's rifle generated ear shattering sound levels of 130 decibels.

No-one heard the shot at 223 either Bill, not even Governor Connally.

Edited by Bill Miller, 18 October 2010 - 11:03 PM.


#19 Robert Harris

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:38 PM




Bill, what planet are you posting from???

You seem to think that I said none of the cops heard more than one shot. MOST witnesses reported three shots, including most law enforcement people.

And I said that NONE Of the law enforcement people reported that the early shots were closer together than than the final ones.

I have been posting in forums since the early 90's and have never encountered someone who was so totally oblivious to what is going on. Why don't you actually view my presentations so that you a clue about what to attack?


Listen, Robert ... you have been discussing in-audible shots to only one shot being heard at first and two later close together. In my previous response I mentioned one officer who said the shots were evenly spaced, thus your unfounded speculation has been addressed .

Bill


Yes, and there were a few others who said the shots were evenly spaced, most of whom, only gave that answer after being pressed for an opinion. But MOST witness who expressed an opinion on the subject, recalled hearing ONE early shot and at at least two, closely bunched shots at the very end. Even the WC admitted that. This is from the WC report,

"..a substantial majority of the witnesses stated that the shots were not evenly spaced. Most witnesses recalled that the second and third shots were bunched together."

At one point during the hearings, Warren Commissioner Dulles stated,

"There has been a certain amount of testimony indicating there was a longer pause between the report of the first shot... and the second and third shots, that is not absolutely unanimous but I would say it is something like 5 to 1 or something of that kind.."

Obviously, MOST people only heard one early shot, if that. Many heard none of the early shots. That included Charles Brehm, Clint Hill, Mary Moorman, Jean Hill, and numerous others.

Had Oswald fired those shots, they would have been ear shattering. Look at all the happy, smiling faces in the Altgens photo Bill, after TWO high powered shots were supposed to have been fired. Some of them heard something but it is obvious that no one was diving to the ground and screaming, as they would after 285 and 312.

And the reason the Secret Service seemed "sluggish" is that they heard nothing then that sounded like a real gunshot. They only went for their guns and hit the pavement, AFTER frame 285 - no exceptions.

BTW, Clint Hill said he was "scanning" a small group on the south side of Elm when he heard the shot that provoked him to jump. We get a pretty good look at him in the wide version of the Zfilm. When do you see him looking to the left?

#20 Bill Miller

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:05 AM

At one point during the hearings, Warren Commissioner Dulles stated,

"There has been a certain amount of testimony indicating there was a longer pause between the report of the first shot... and the second and third shots, that is not absolutely unanimous but I would say it is something like 5 to 1 or something of that kind.."



As I read the Commission testimonies, I found that there were police officers mentions as being in the plaza that were not asked to testify. I also found that there were officers who testified who mentioned hearing multiple shots, but were not asked about the spacing. Having seen this for myself, your Dulles stat doesn't mean a hell of a lot in my view.

I have supplied you with witness statements as to when the first and second shots were heard and how they effected JFK and Connally. The Zfilm is a time clock of the assassination and their reactions can be correlated to what they heard and saw in relation to the film. The fact is that some witnesses heard shots that others did not and visa-versa depending on where they were located at that given moment and some people heard sounds that they didn't know were shots while others did which makes trying to rely on one witness over another as to the number and spacing of the shots a moot effort in my view.

Bill

PS: Why is this nonsense spread out over three threads and not all in just one???

Edited by Bill Miller, 19 October 2010 - 12:35 AM.


#21 Bill Miller

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:43 AM

And the reason the Secret Service seemed "sluggish" is that they heard nothing then that sounded like a real gunshot. They only went for their guns and hit the pavement, AFTER frame 285 - no exceptions.

BTW, Clint Hill said he was "scanning" a small group on the south side of Elm when he heard the shot that provoked him to jump. We get a pretty good look at him in the wide version of the Zfilm. When do you see him looking to the left?


If you are suggesting some Agents were looking back behind them in Altgens because they saw a good looking babe or any other similar reason ... I'd not agree. I believe they heard the first shot(s) and thought they came from behind. It all falls on first recognizing the possible shot(s) of gunfire and then locating the source so to deal with it ... all within six quick seconds. Hill looks to have focused on the limo and seems to have been the one who leaped from the SS running board to dash towards the limo. I cannot say that I would have done anything better or have assessed the situation any faster.

Maybe someone yelled out to them that a blind chord was cut in the Dal-tex building. (eyes rolling)

Bill

#22 Robert Harris

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 01:46 AM




And the reason the Secret Service seemed "sluggish" is that they heard nothing then that sounded like a real gunshot. They only went for their guns and hit the pavement, AFTER frame 285 - no exceptions.

BTW, Clint Hill said he was "scanning" a small group on the south side of Elm when he heard the shot that provoked him to jump. We get a pretty good look at him in the wide version of the Zfilm. When do you see him looking to the left?


If you are suggesting some Agents were looking back behind them in Altgens because they saw a good looking babe or any other similar reason ... I'd not agree. I believe they heard the first shot(s) and thought they came from behind. It all falls on first recognizing the possible shot(s) of gunfire and then locating the source so to deal with it ... all within six quick seconds. Hill looks to have focused on the limo and seems to have been the one who leaped from the SS running board to dash towards the limo. I cannot say that I would have done anything better or have assessed the situation any faster.

Maybe someone yelled out to them that a blind chord was cut in the Dal-tex building. (eyes rolling)

Bill


Tell me something Bill. When I said, "MOST witness who expressed an opinion on the subject, recalled hearing ONE early shot..", how did you comprehend my statement?

If you realized that I said that most witnesses who expressed an opinion on the subject recalled hearing one early shot then why did you "argue" that some of the agents on the running board heard an early shot??

Bill, you have a VERY serious deficiency in your comprehension skills. If you don't understand me, then why don't you just ask me to clarify for you? Or if you're too proud to do that, then find a friend or relative to help you.

It's impossible for us to have a meaningful conversation when all you can do is blurt out a lot of insults and attack arguments that you just made up and have absolutely nothing to do with what I really said.

BTW, were you able to confirm yet, the fact that none of the law enforcement professionals said the early shots were closer than the final ones?? You do realize I presume, that most of them submitted a report on what happened, in addition the numerous testimonies that many of them gave.

And do you understand the WC's conclusions about the witnesses, who overwhelmingly reported a SINGLE early shot, a delay and then closely bunched shots at the end??

Did you at least get that part, Bill?




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