Roosevelt and Kennedy Options

[John Simkin]

Most people now accept that Kennedy was a victim of a right-wing conspiracy in 1963. Is it true that there was a similar plot to remove Roosevelt in the 1930s?

[Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*]

This will give you some keywords for a google search.

Many say the bullets, one killing Cermak, were intended for FDR.


http://www.cermak.com/mayor/index3.html


Anton J. Cermak was born in 1873 in Kladno, a town near Prague, Czechoslovakia. His father was a coal miner and brought the family to America in 1874.

They lived in Braidwood, Illinois which was a mining town. He went to Elementary School for just three years. After that, he worked long hours in the dirty coal mines. He earned $1.50 a day.

When he was 19, in 1892, Anton Cermak started his own hauling business in Chicago. He hauled wood, coal, or anything. By 1902, Anton Cermak was an Illinois State Representative. He held many more positions over the next 29 years. Then, in 1931, he was elected mayor of Chicago.

In February of 1933, Mayor Cermak traveled to Miami, Florida to meet with President-elect Franklin Roosevelt.

They arrived on February 15th to be in a parade.

The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt and Mayor Cermak smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect Roosevelt gave a speech while sitting on the back of the car. A man named Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the crowd. He fired five shots at the President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor Cermak. The mayor fell out of the car and called out "The President, get him away!" But Roosevelt ordered his car to stop and that Mayor Cermak be put in with him. President-elect Roosevelt held Mayor Cermak all the way to the hospital.

Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His body was taken back to Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National Cemetery.

Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933. That was only 13 days after Mayor Cermak died.

[Adele Edisen]

In 1933-1934 there was a plot to remove President Roosevelt from office - a coup d'etat. The conspiracy involved Wall Street brokers, bankers, industrialists, even some members of Roosevelt's Democratic Party, the House of Morgan, the Duponts and the Rockefellers. Roosevelt, like John Kennedy, was considered a communist, a traitor to his class, and worse, by these elite forces who feared his actions to remedy inequalities and to better the situation during the Great Depression which had begun during Herbert Hoover's prior administration. The plot entailed the use of war veterans of the American Legion, an organization founded by wealthy military officers after World War I to resist "radicalism," who were to be mobilized to march to the White House in Washington, D.C., to remove Roosevelt and to install a popular Marine General, Smedley Darlington Butler, as 'dictator" in his place. The plotters were admirers of Benito Mussolini who had led a force of his 'black shirts' against Rome to remove the Italian King, putting Mussolini in power in 1922. They also admired a French Fascist paramilitary organization, the Croix de Feu (Cross of Fire), of approximately 500,000 which they planned to pattern in their efforts in the United States.

When they approached General Butler, he became curious as to their plans and offers of money and power. As he listened and learned more about the plot, he, being totally opposed to the idea of a dictatorship, went to the President, the Secret Service, and members of Congress, leading to a Congressional inquiry by the McCormick-Dickstein Committee, forerunner of the House Un-American Activities Committee, to investigate fascist and communist organizations which threatened the United States government. The Committee stated in its final report that it had found evidence of a plot to overthrow the elected goverment with a military coup.

Some of the names directly involved were Robert Sterling Clark (heir to the Singer Sewing Machine Company); Grayson M.P. Murphy (Wall Street broker, director of a Morgan Bank, and treasurer of the American Liberty League); Bill Doyle and Gerald C. Maguire (members of the American Legion); and even Douglas MacArthur and Al Smith, former Democratic Governor of New York, were alleged to have been involved by General Butler. Two important witnesses who were to testify, MacGuire and Grayson, died, and another moved to Europe beyond the reach of Congress.

Although a few newspapers reported on the Congressional hearings and the proceedings were placed in the Congressional Record, not much was made of these events. They are not even mentioned in U.S. history texts. The right-wing American Liberty League, funded by the Duponts, went on to try to defeat Roosevelt for his second term in office and then died out, but did give rise to anti-communist, anti-semitic, and anti-union organizations such as the Black Legion, the Minutemen, Minutewomen, Sentinels of the Republic, and other violent hate groups.

General Smedley D. Butler, already retired, went on speaking tours and on the radio to denounce the plotters. His book, War is a Racket, spoke in favor of war veterans and against war. He had been the most unlikely person to have been chosen by these conspirators to displace President Roosevelt, but luckily for us, he foiled their plot.

1. Barbara LaMonica, "The Attempted Coup Against FDR", Probe Magazine (CTKA),
March-April 1999 issue (Vol 6 No. 3).
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html
(This article provides connections to the assassination of President Kennedy.)

2. Jules Archer, The Plot To Seize The White House, Hawthorne Books,
New York, 244 pp., 1973.

3. More references may be found by a Google search.

[John Simkin]

This is an interesting story that does not appear in any of the books I have on Franklin D. Roosevelt. The nearest thing to this in British history was when MI5 attempted to overthrow Harold Wilson in 1968. The plan was to replace him with a government led by Lord Mountbatten. Also involved in the plot was Cecil King, chairman of International Publishing Corporation. There is no evidence that Mountbatten had agreed to head the new government. The plot was foiled and King was ousted from his job. The story is told in Peter Wright’s book, Spycatcher. The government tried to halt publication of the book but after it appeared in Australia in 1987 it gave up the fight.

Wright, who was heavily involved in the plot, admits that MI5 tried to destabilize the Wilson government between 1964-70. This included smearing left-wing members of the government. This resulted in one Labour MP committing suicide (Bernard Floud). It was also successful in making sure that Wilson did not do anything too left-wing (like condemning US policy in Vietnam).

MI5 tried again to destabilize Wilson’s government when he returned to power in 1974. This was probably one of the main reasons Wilson resigned in 1976. His replacement, James Callaghan, was much more to M15’s liking and he was allowed complete freedom to introduce what became known as monetarism. (Margaret Thatcher was only continuing policies started by Callaghan).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JkingC.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SSwright.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWmountbatten.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SSflood.htm

[Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*]

Hello Adele,

Interesting to have you here. Maybe this will be the first place for an open discussion with Judyth.




Wim


PS: Someone should try talk to Milton Kaack, if he is still coherent at age 96.


Select the person you are searching for:

Search Results - 1 Records Found View Sample Reports
Option 1 - Click on the name to get the current or historical address. (From $9.95 - Internet Only)

# Name City State Age
1 MILTON R KAACK NEW ORLEANS LA Age 96

This post has been edited by dankbaar: Apr 29 2004, 07:27 PM

[Laurent Gayme]

In 1933-1934 there was a plot to remove President Roosevelt from office - a coup d'etat.  The conspiracy involved Wall Street brokers, bankers, industrialists, even some members of Roosevelt's Democratic Party, the House of Morgan, the Duponts and the Rockefellers.  Roosevelt, like John Kennedy, was considered a communist, a traitor to his class, and worse, by these elite forces who feared his actions to remedy inequalities and to better the situation during the Great Depression which had begun during Herbert Hoover's prior administration.  The plot entailed the use of war veterans of the American Legion, an organization founded by wealthy military officers after World War I to resist "radicalism," who were to be mobilized to march to the White House in Washington, D.C., to remove Roosevelt and to install a popular Marine General, Smedley Darlington Butler, as 'dictator" in his place.  The plotters were admirers of Benito Mussolini who had led a force of his 'black shirts' against Rome to remove the Italian King, putting Mussolini in power in 1922.  They also admired a French Fascist paramilitary organization, the Croix de Feu (Cross of Fire), of approximately 500,000 which they planned to pattern in their efforts in the United States.

For French historians, the Croix de Feu was not a facist organization : their leader, Colonel de La Rocque, was against plots. Such organizations had been called "ligues" (leagues ?) : some were monarchistic (Camelots du Roi, Action Française), some were nationalist, a few were facist, all were far-right organizations and often admirers of Mussolini. They took part (the French Communist Party too) in the riot of 6/2/1934 in Paris: a huge demonstration on the place of the Concorde near the Palais-Bourbon (house of the parliament), that became a march on the Palais-Bourbon with police shots (15 deads, 1435 wounded : a lot of ex-warriors of IWW). For left parties, the riot was a plot of the facist leagues and an attempt for making a coup d'etat.

The consequences were :
- dissolution of the leagues. Some changed into political parties, that were dissolved too (1935-1936)
- 1936 : victory of the French Popular Front

After the dissolution, some ex-members of the leagues founded the CSAR, best known as the "Cagoule" (cowl), whose leader was Eugene Deloncle (boss of the society Ripolin : oil-based paint). The "Cagoule" was a secret organization and a secret army (linked with fascist Italy and maybe - but no evidences - Nazis), that commited murders and bombing during 1937 and an attempt of putsch (November 1937 with members of the French army). The Cagoule gave up the putsch, arrestations came after. Because of the war, leaders were not tried. Deloncle is one of the cretors of the LVF (French legion of volunteers fighting against bolchevism with the nazi army in USSR, Darnand chief of the Milice (Vichy France)

Cf. Frédéric Monier, Le complot dans la République. Stratégies du secret de Boulanger à la Cagoule, Paris, La Découverte, 1998. (The plot in the Republic)

http://www3.uakron.edu/hfrance/reviews/wall3.html

http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~os0tmc/fre320/front.htm

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=10961846692797

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/theori...ht/theory1.html

This post has been edited by John Simkin: Apr 30 2004, 11:39 AM

[Peter McGuire]

In 1933-1934 there was a plot to remove President Roosevelt from office - a coup d'etat.  The conspiracy involved Wall Street brokers, bankers, industrialists, even some members of Roosevelt's Democratic Party, the House of Morgan, the Duponts and the Rockefellers.  Roosevelt, like John Kennedy, was considered a communist, a traitor to his class, and worse, by these elite forces who feared his actions to remedy inequalities and to better the situation during the Great Depression which had begun during Herbert Hoover's prior administration.  The plot entailed the use of war veterans of the American Legion, an organization founded by wealthy military officers after World War I to resist "radicalism," who were to be mobilized to march to the White House in Washington, D.C., to remove Roosevelt and to install a popular Marine General, Smedley Darlington Butler, as 'dictator" in his place.  The plotters were admirers of Benito Mussolini who had led a force of his 'black shirts' against Rome to remove the Italian King, putting Mussolini in power in 1922.  They also admired a French Fascist paramilitary organization, the Croix de Feu (Cross of Fire), of approximately 500,000 which they planned to pattern in their efforts in the United States.

For French historians, the Croix de Feu was not a facist organization : their leader, Colonel de La Rocque, was against plots. Such organizations had been called "ligues" (leagues ?) : some were monarchistic (Camelots du Roi, Action Française), some were nationalist, a few were facist, all were far-right organizations and often admirers of Mussolini. They took part (the French Communist Party too) in the riot of 6/2/1934 in Paris: a huge demonstration on the place of the Concorde near the Palais-Bourbon (house of the parliament), that became a march on the Palais-Bourbon with police shots (15 deads, 1435 wounded : a lot of ex-warriors of IWW). For left parties, the riot was a plot of the facist leagues and an attempt for making a coup d'etat.

The consequences were :
- dissolution of the leagues. Some changed into political parties, that were dissolved too (1935-1936)
- 1936 : victory of the French Popular Front

After the dissolution, some ex-members of the leagues founded the CSAR, best known as the "Cagoule" (cowl), whose leader was Eugene Deloncle (boss of the society Ripolin : oil-based paint). The "Cagoule" was a secret organization and a secret army (linked with fascist Italy and maybe - but no evidences - Nazis), that commited murders and bombing during 1937 and an attempt of putsch (November 1937 with members of the French army). The Cagoule gave up the putsch, arrestations came after. Because of the war, leaders were not tried. Deloncle is one of the cretors of the LVF (French legion of volunteers fighting against bolchevism with the nazi army in USSR, Darnand chief of the Milice (Vichy France)

Cf. Frédéric Monier, Le complot dans la République. Stratégies du secret de Boulanger à la Cagoule, Paris, La Découverte, 1998. (The plot in the Republic)

http://www3.uakron.edu/hfrance/reviews/wall3.html

http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~os0tmc/fre320/front.htm

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=10961846692797

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/theori...ht/theory1.html

[Norman T. Field]

Cermak was engaged in open warfare with Frank Nitti at the time of his death. Chicago police were guarding non-Outfit beer deliveries to try and break the back of the Outfit. Prior to going to Florida, two Chicago policemen, on orders from Cermak, attempted to kill Nitti and failed. Cermak then left for Florida, allegedly to hide out from Nitti. There is a lot of strong evidence to suggest that the bullet that killed Cermak was intended for the Mayor all along.

[Mark Valenti]

Cermak was engaged in open warfare with Frank Nitti at the time of his death. Chicago police were guarding non-Outfit beer deliveries to try and break the back of the Outfit. Prior to going to Florida, two Chicago policemen, on orders from Cermak, attempted to kill Nitti and failed. Cermak then left for Florida, allegedly to hide out from Nitti. There is a lot of strong evidence to suggest that the bullet that killed Cermak was intended for the Mayor all along.

Zangara was put to death about five weeks after the initial shooting. That's nice and tidy, isn't it?

[Paul Rigby]

In 1933-1934 there was a plot to remove President Roosevelt from office - a coup d'etat. The conspiracy involved Wall Street brokers, bankers, industrialists, even some members of Roosevelt's Democratic Party, the House of Morgan, the Duponts and the Rockefellers. Roosevelt, like John Kennedy, was considered a communist, a traitor to his class, and worse, by these elite forces who feared his actions to remedy inequalities and to better the situation during the Great Depression which had begun during Herbert Hoover's prior administration. The plot entailed the use of war veterans of the American Legion, an organization founded by wealthy military officers after World War I to resist "radicalism," who were to be mobilized to march to the White House in Washington, D.C., to remove Roosevelt and to install a popular Marine General, Smedley Darlington Butler, as 'dictator" in his place. The plotters were admirers of Benito Mussolini who had led a force of his 'black shirts' against Rome to remove the Italian King, putting Mussolini in power in 1922. They also admired a French Fascist paramilitary organization, the Croix de Feu (Cross of Fire), of approximately 500,000 which they planned to pattern in their efforts in the United States.

When they approached General Butler, he became curious as to their plans and offers of money and power. As he listened and learned more about the plot, he, being totally opposed to the idea of a dictatorship, went to the President, the Secret Service, and members of Congress, leading to a Congressional inquiry by the McCormick-Dickstein Committee, forerunner of the House Un-American Activities Committee, to investigate fascist and communist organizations which threatened the United States government. The Committee stated in its final report that it had found evidence of a plot to overthrow the elected goverment with a military coup.

Some of the names directly involved were Robert Sterling Clark (heir to the Singer Sewing Machine Company); Grayson M.P. Murphy (Wall Street broker, director of a Morgan Bank, and treasurer of the American Liberty League); Bill Doyle and Gerald C. Maguire (members of the American Legion); and even Douglas MacArthur and Al Smith, former Democratic Governor of New York, were alleged to have been involved by General Butler. Two important witnesses who were to testify, MacGuire and Grayson, died, and another moved to Europe beyond the reach of Congress.

Although a few newspapers reported on the Congressional hearings and the proceedings were placed in the Congressional Record, not much was made of these events. They are not even mentioned in U.S. history texts. The right-wing American Liberty League, funded by the Duponts, went on to try to defeat Roosevelt for his second term in office and then died out, but did give rise to anti-communist, anti-semitic, and anti-union organizations such as the Black Legion, the Minutemen, Minutewomen, Sentinels of the Republic, and other violent hate groups.

General Smedley D. Butler, already retired, went on speaking tours and on the radio to denounce the plotters. His book, War is a Racket, spoke in favor of war veterans and against war. He had been the most unlikely person to have been chosen by these conspirators to displace President Roosevelt, but luckily for us, he foiled their plot.

1. Barbara LaMonica, "The Attempted Coup Against FDR", Probe Magazine (CTKA),
March-April 1999 issue (Vol 6 No. 3).
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html
(This article provides connections to the assassination of President Kennedy.)

2. Jules Archer, The Plot To Seize The White House, Hawthorne Books,
New York, 244 pp., 1973.

3. More references may be found by a Google search.

Excellent post, to which I add a few more suggestions for background reading:

Clayton Cramer, “An American Coup d’Etat?”, History Today, Vol 45 (11), November 1995, pp.42-47;

John L. Spivak, "Wall Street's Fascist Conspiracy: 1. Testimony that the Dickstein Committee Suppressed," New Masses, Vol 14 (5), January 29, 1935, pp.9-15;

John L. Spivak, “Wall Street’s Fascist Conspiracy: 2. Morgan Pulls the Strings,” New Masses, Vol 14 (6), February 5, 1935, pp.10-15;

NB: For UK readers, the relevant editions of New Masses were held - presumably still are - by the Hallward Library of Nottingham University.

George Wolfskill. The Revolt of the Conservatives: A History of the American Liberty League, 1934-1940 (Houghton Mifflin Co., 1962);

Official report into the plot: Investigation of Nazi Propaganda Activities and Investigation of Certain Other Propaganda Activities: Public Hearings Before the Special Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Seventy-third Congress, Second Session, at Washington D.C., December 29, 1934. Hearings No. 73-D.C.-6, Part 1; p.194: McCormack-Dickstein Committee published "Extracts," a 125 page "document";

Hans Schmidt. Maverick Marine: General Smedley D. Butler and the Contradictions of American Military History (Univ. Press of Kentucky, 1987).

The initiation of this thread reminded me of some questions that have long nagged - why did James Angelton's father suddenly relocate to Italy in 1934? Was it simply a coincidence, or did Angleton pere have some role in establishing a line of communication between fascist plotters in the US and Mussolini's regime? Did Angleton Snr. hook up with Donovan when the latter visited Italy in December 1935-February 1936? Anyone know the answers?

Paul

This post has been edited by Paul Rigby: Feb 5 2007, 12:03 AM

[Myra Bronstein]

In 1933-1934 there was a plot to remove President Roosevelt from office - a coup d'etat. The conspiracy involved Wall Street brokers, bankers, industrialists, even some members of Roosevelt's Democratic Party, the House of Morgan, the Duponts and the Rockefellers. Roosevelt, like John Kennedy, was considered a communist, a traitor to his class, and worse, by these elite forces who feared his actions to remedy inequalities and to better the situation during the Great Depression which had begun during Herbert Hoover's prior administration. The plot entailed the use of war veterans of the American Legion, an organization founded by wealthy military officers after World War I to resist "radicalism," who were to be mobilized to march to the White House in Washington, D.C., to remove Roosevelt and to install a popular Marine General, Smedley Darlington Butler, as 'dictator" in his place. The plotters were admirers of Benito Mussolini who had led a force of his 'black shirts' against Rome to remove the Italian King, putting Mussolini in power in 1922. They also admired a French Fascist paramilitary organization, the Croix de Feu (Cross of Fire), of approximately 500,000 which they planned to pattern in their efforts in the United States.

When they approached General Butler, he became curious as to their plans and offers of money and power. As he listened and learned more about the plot, he, being totally opposed to the idea of a dictatorship, went to the President, the Secret Service, and members of Congress, leading to a Congressional inquiry by the McCormick-Dickstein Committee, forerunner of the House Un-American Activities Committee, to investigate fascist and communist organizations which threatened the United States government. The Committee stated in its final report that it had found evidence of a plot to overthrow the elected goverment with a military coup.

Some of the names directly involved were Robert Sterling Clark (heir to the Singer Sewing Machine Company); Grayson M.P. Murphy (Wall Street broker, director of a Morgan Bank, and treasurer of the American Liberty League); Bill Doyle and Gerald C. Maguire (members of the American Legion); and even Douglas MacArthur and Al Smith, former Democratic Governor of New York, were alleged to have been involved by General Butler. Two important witnesses who were to testify, MacGuire and Grayson, died, and another moved to Europe beyond the reach of Congress.

Although a few newspapers reported on the Congressional hearings and the proceedings were placed in the Congressional Record, not much was made of these events. They are not even mentioned in U.S. history texts. The right-wing American Liberty League, funded by the Duponts, went on to try to defeat Roosevelt for his second term in office and then died out, but did give rise to anti-communist, anti-semitic, and anti-union organizations such as the Black Legion, the Minutemen, Minutewomen, Sentinels of the Republic, and other violent hate groups.

General Smedley D. Butler, already retired, went on speaking tours and on the radio to denounce the plotters. His book, War is a Racket, spoke in favor of war veterans and against war. He had been the most unlikely person to have been chosen by these conspirators to displace President Roosevelt, but luckily for us, he foiled their plot.

1. Barbara LaMonica, "The Attempted Coup Against FDR", Probe Magazine (CTKA),
March-April 1999 issue (Vol 6 No. 3).
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html
(This article provides connections to the assassination of President Kennedy.)

2. Jules Archer, The Plot To Seize The White House, Hawthorne Books,
New York, 244 pp., 1973.

3. More references may be found by a Google search.

Excellent post, to which I add a few more suggestions for background reading:

Clayton Cramer, “An American Coup d’Etat?”, History Today, Vol 45 (11), November 1995, pp.42-47;

John L. Spivak, "Wall Street's Fascist Conspiracy: 1. Testimony that the Dickstein Committee Suppressed," New Masses, Vol 14 (5), January 29, 1935, pp.9-15;

John L. Spivak, “Wall Street’s Fascist Conspiracy: 2. Morgan Pulls the Strings,” New Masses, Vol 14 (6), February 5, 1935, pp.10-15;

NB: For UK readers, the relevant editions of New Masses were held - presumably still are - by the Hallward Library of Nottingham University.

George Wolfskill. The Revolt of the Conservatives: A History of the American Liberty League, 1934-1940 (Houghton Mifflin Co., 1962);

Official report into the plot: Investigation of Nazi Propaganda Activities and Investigation of Certain Other Propaganda Activities: Public Hearings Before the Special Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Seventy-third Congress, Second Session, at Washington D.C., December 29, 1934. Hearings No. 73-D.C.-6, Part 1; p.194: McCormack-Dickstein Committee published "Extracts," a 125 page "document";

Hans Schmidt. Maverick Marine: General Smedley D. Butler and the Contradictions of American Military History (Univ. Press of Kentucky, 1987).

The initiation of this thread reminded me of some questions that have long nagged - why did James Angelton's father suddenly relocate to Italy in 1934? Was it simply a coincidence, or did Angleton pere have some role in establishing a line of communication between fascist plotters in the US and Mussolini's regime? Did Angleton Snr. hook up with Donovan when the latter visited Italy in December 1935-February 1936? Anyone know the answers?

Paul

I don't know the answer Paul. But I've been reading on the subject and have a couple more sources to add:

-1000 Americans, 1947, by George Seldes, Appendix 20? I got this reference from the recently written forward to "War is a Racket" by General Smedley Butler. In fact the forward itself, by Adam Parfrey, has some good details, quotes/interviews.
-The Plot to Overthrow FDR, History Channel Documentary (http://www.ihffilm.com/r547.html)

And I agree that Adele's original post was excellent... I'd like to learn a lot more on this subject. It's, obviously, hugely relevant to President Kennedy's murder. The corporate fascists failed with FDR; they succeeded with JFK.

[Paul Rigby]

Myra,

Always a pleasure to encounter a fellow Seldes admirer. In case you weren't aware - apologies for boring on if you are - the University of Pennsylvania has done him, and In Fact, proud. If you follow this address http://www.library.upenn.edu/rbm/ , then click on the Schoenberg Center for Electronic Text & Image, &, finally, tap in Seldes, you are confronted with a complete run of the paper. It's a splendid project, and a model for what universities could and should be offering, both here and in the States.

The corporate fascists failed with FDR; they succeeded with JFK.

Couldn't agree more. The continuities between US fascism in the 1930s and the Dallas coup remain a gaping hole in assassination research. Which is very odd, when you think about it, not least given the controversy that surrounds the Z-fake. And the Luce empire's inter-war politics?

Paul

[Norman T. Field]

Cermak was engaged in open warfare with Frank Nitti at the time of his death. Chicago police were guarding non-Outfit beer deliveries to try and break the back of the Outfit. Prior to going to Florida, two Chicago policemen, on orders from Cermak, attempted to kill Nitti and failed. Cermak then left for Florida, allegedly to hide out from Nitti. There is a lot of strong evidence to suggest that the bullet that killed Cermak was intended for the Mayor all along.

Zangara was put to death about five weeks after the initial shooting. That's nice and tidy, isn't it?

Zangara knew he was a dead man walking. The story is that he owed far more to the outfit than he could pay. Supposedly, he family was taken care of in return for his act.

BTW. Cermak was supposed to have been 50 yards from Rooseveldt when Cermak was shot.

Remember, Cermak was in Florida to hide out from Mr. Nitti's boys. They found him.

[Charles Drago]

I'm most pleased to join this forum by sharing a point of information and an observation on the Butler/Roosevelt affair.

1. While Jules Archer's "The Plot to Seize the White House" remains the only book-length analysis of the coup attempt extant (albeit out of print), I'm told that Joseph Trento completed a volume on the same subject. Indeed, "The Last President," which he allegedly co-authored with William Corson, was coveted by Oliver Stone in 2000 as the basis for, as they say, a major motion picture.

Perhaps Mr. Trento will be moved to enlighten us on the status of the project. So too Mr. Stone.

2. I was morbidly gratified when I read in Dick Russell's extraordinary "The Man Who Knew Too Much" of how the author was tipped off to the probable involvement of Charles Willoughby and an unnamed American military hero in the Kennedy hit. The latter could only be the Old Fading Soldier himself.

For some time I had considered the possibility that Douglas MacArthur, having experienced first-hand the problematic nature of bloodless coups, subsequently made a "no more Mister Nice Guy" pledge to himself. So if he had been confronted in his retirment by serving flag officers bearing "evidence" of JFK's unsuitability for office, he would have given his blessing to executive action.

As a writer of fiction, I was intrigued by such a scenario -- one for which meaningful empirical evidence is all but absent. I bring it to the forum's attention only as an exercise in creative visualization. Sometimes -- not often -- intuition leads.

Charles Drago

This post has been edited by Charles Drago: Feb 7 2007, 04:49 PM

[Myra Bronstein]

Myra,

Always a pleasure to encounter a fellow Seldes admirer. In case you weren't aware - apologies for boring on if you are - the University of Pennsylvania has done him, and In Fact, proud. If you follow this address http://www.library.upenn.edu/rbm/ , then click on the Schoenberg Center for Electronic Text & Image, &, finally, tap in Seldes, you are confronted with a complete run of the paper. It's a splendid project, and a model for what universities could and should be offering, both here and in the States.

The corporate fascists failed with FDR; they succeeded with JFK.

Couldn't agree more. The continuities between US fascism in the 1930s and the Dallas coup remain a gaping hole in assassination research. Which is very odd, when you think about it, not least given the controversy that surrounds the Z-fake. And the Luce empire's inter-war politics?

Paul

Paul, I'm new to Seldes admiring. But you've just advanced my Seldes literacy tremendously. The University of Pennsylvania archives you pointed me to are fantastic. I've now read through most of them.

It appears that they have all of his newsletters from decades ago, before President Kennedy's murder by corporate thugs. The newsletters are super valuable for dot connecting. Seldes names names of the corporate villains so that when--years later--President Kennedy ends up corporate roadkill some prime suspects are well documented.

Seldes is (I'm discovering after you) a hugely helpful source, esp given the fact that he covered so many rich man's wars (as Steve Earle calls them) as a correspondent. He was in the right places at the right time, and has the right stuff in terms of character,... yet he's a lefty. (Sorry 'bout that.)

I've ordered many of his books at the library. Unfortunately most are inter-library loan, which means they may be impossible to get. I have his book of quotes waiting for me now at the library. Can't wait to see that.

But there is a lot of good stuff online:
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/seldes.html
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/1000_americans.html
Even Wiki admits his existence and give a good overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Seldes

Thanks for the nudge in Seldes' direction.