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Michael Clark

Photo analysis JR at Midnight press conference

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About 15 minutes into this video it is well established that Ruby was there and made the FPCC comment. The account is authentic IMO. What to make of conflicting accounts? IDK

 

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9 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

About 15 minutes into this video it is well established that Ruby was there and made the FPCC comment. The account is authentic IMO. What to make of conflicting accounts? IDK

I take it you are meaning conflicting accounts as to where Ruby was at that time?

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5 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

 

I take it you are meaning conflicting accounts as to where Ruby was at that time?

Correct Alistair, I am now starting a thread titled: "The Two Jack Rubys"

 

just kidding. ;)

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I have limited bandwidth during most of the day. So I have to put off watching videos most of the time. It's just a few brief opportunities a day. Because of this I don't have info that is available to most people, all of the time.

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I am trying to confirm who is who. I think "Johnny" is the garage mechanic or owner. He would be distinct from JP David Johnson, if I am not mistaken.

There seems to be a significant effort to document JR's presence at the police station at that time. The only reason I have yet found for that would be to counter Officer Olsen's claim to the contrary; that Ruby was at the garage adjacent to the (closed) Carousel Lounge. Those efforts seem to draw attention to themselves. 

 

Michael,

 

For a couple of other people who saw Ruby in the basement, see:

Other people who saw Ruby in the DPD basement. CD 105 pp. 325-325

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10517#relPageId=341&tab=page

 

You might want to look at Mary Ferrell's Chronologies here for an 11:30 - 12:00 timeline:

 

Mary Ferrells's Chronologies

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=41072#relPageId=10&tab=page

 

See also here for "Johnny" Simpson:

 

Ken Rahn Timeline

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Jack_Ruby/Timeline_of_Ruby.html

1:00 – 2:00 AM Olsen, Harry DPD: had "two to three" hour conversation with Ruby, Kathy Kay Coleman (stripper at Ruby's Carousel) and "Johnny" Simpson, garage attendant, at Simon's parking lot on corner of Jackson and Field. (1300 Jackson Street). Conversation ended about 2 or 3 A.M.(14 H 631-2) dtd 8/6/64. In interview of 12/16 OLSEN stated they only talked to Jack for about ten minutes and Olsen placed the meeting at around 1:30 A.M. (25 H 279)

 

Steve Thomas

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24 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

For a couple of other people who saw Ruby in the basement, see:

............................................

 on corner of Jackson and Field. (1300 Jackson Street). Conversation ended about 2 or 3 A.M.(14 H 631-2) dtd 8/6/64. In interview of 12/16 OLSEN stated they only talked to Jack for about ten minutes and Olsen placed the meeting at around 1:30 A.M. (25 H 279)

 

Steve Thomas

Thank you Steve

 

Michael

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From a quick read of the Ken Rahn timeline, there are points where either some timings are way off or when Michael said about starting a thread called 'The Two Jack Ruby's he might not have been kidding. lol ;)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

See also here for "Johnny" Simpson:

lol Dang my notes, I had written down Johnny Johnson. lol

Steve you might be able to help me on something... I was having a look through my scribbled notes and I have written down that Ruby was present at the Midnight press conference with Oswald answering questions (and that press conference was over by 12:15) and I have also written down that Ruby's correction of Wade happened just after 1am... how accurate are those? (if you know)

Regards

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57 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

 

Steve you might be able to help me on something... I was having a look through my scribbled notes and I have written down that Ruby was present at the Midnight press conference with Oswald answering questions (and that press conference was over by 12:15) and I have also written down that Ruby's correction of Wade happened just after 1am... how accurate are those? (if you know)

Regards

Alistair,

 

I know that Fritz told the Warren Commission that he took Oswald back to jail at 12:05. I've never thought about it, did the press conference continue after Oswald left the room?

I'll have to look into the Wade question.

 

Steve Thomas

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3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Jack_Ruby/Timeline_of_Ruby.html

1:00 – 2:00 AM Olsen, Harry DPD: had "two to three" hour conversation with Ruby, Kathy Kay Coleman (stripper at Ruby's Carousel) and "Johnny" Simpson, garage attendant, at Simon's parking lot on corner of Jackson and Field. (1300 Jackson Street). Conversation ended about 2 or 3 A.M.(14 H 631-2) dtd 8/6/64. In interview of 12/16 OLSEN stated they only talked to Jack for about ten minutes and Olsen placed the meeting at around 1:30 A.M. (25 H 279)

 

Steve Thomas

Michael,

 

See 25H(521) for an FBI interview with John J. Simpson - garage attendant)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=551&tab=page

 

Steve Thomas

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5 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

I know that Fritz told the Warren Commission that he took Oswald back to jail at 12:05.

That sounds about right. :) I'm not 100% sure it started spot on Midnight of course, but I have written down in my notes that Oswald was in front of the cameras for 5 or 6 minutes. That ties in quite nicely.

8 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

 I've never thought about it, did the press conference continue after Oswald left the room?

I'm pretty sure that after Oswald had been taken out, some of the reporters stayed to ask questions to Henry Wade - not a continuation of the press conference 'officially', more like an ad-hoc thing. In my scribbled notes I have written down that Wade was still answering questions more than an hour later - I'm just not sure if it would have lasted as long as that...

I have been doing a bit of Googling to see if I can dig something up but can't find anything concrete yet...

Regards

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3 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

That sounds about right. :) I'm not 100% sure it started spot on Midnight of course, but I have written down in my notes that Oswald was in front of the cameras for 5 or 6 minutes. That ties in quite nicely.

Alistair,

 

I just read Sims' WC testimony. He said he took Oswald down to the press conference at 12:15 and brought him back to jail about 12:20.

Michael has raised a thorny question :-)

 

Steve Thomas

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This is interesting.

 

FLIF disc jockey, Danny McCurdy told the FBI that Jack called him about 1:00 and showed up at the station about 20 minutes later.

20H(552)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=572&tab=page

 

When he testified to the WC, McCurdy said that Ruby called him around 12:20 and showed up at the station about 12:40.

15H(532)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=51#relPageId=542&tab=page

 

McCurdy says that Ruby stayed for about an hour or maybe longer.

 

In his deposition in vol 20, McCurdy said that Glen Duncan, and Russell Moore (Russ Knight) were also there when Ruby was present.

In his Jack Ruby trial testimony, Glen Duncan said he took Jack Ruby's call at around midnight or shortly thereafter.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136&search="Glen_Duncan"#relPageId=647&tab=page

Surprisingly enough, that deposition also says that Pappas (fnu), newsman for WNEW, Radio,  New York City was there. Can that be true?

 

Steve Thomas

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50 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

I just read Sims' WC testimony. He said he took Oswald down to the press conference at 12:15 and brought him back to jail about 12:20.

I wish it was just possible to go back in time and get them all to syncronize their watches and actually refer to them so we would have exact times for everything - would make it a lot more easy to sift through it all. lol

50 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael has raised a thorny question :-)

It's a great question, certainly has piqued my interest. :)

From Harry Olsen's WC testimony,

Quote

Mr SPECTER. Do you recollect about what time you arrived at that garage?
Mr OLSEN. Oh, 12, approximately.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see Johnny when you were there?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else while you were at that garage?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Who else did you see?
Mr OLSEN. Jack Ruby.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else besides Johnny and Jack Ruby?
Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember; no.

Earlier on Olsen says that Kay was already with him at the time he arrived at the garage... Earlier on he also mentions only visiting Dealey Plaza and visiting the garage (no mention of visiting a club). He is putting his arrival at the garage at 12 approximately, and although it isn't overly clear (mostly, I feel, because Specter didn't ask better questions) I reckon that he isn't meaning that when he arrived Ruby was there...

From the FBI interview with Simpson;

59 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

See 25H(521) for an FBI interview with John J. Simpson - garage attendant)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=551&tab=page

 

Simpson puts the arrival of Olsen at around 1am and also says that Kay then turned up (which somewhat goes against what both Harry and Kay said) and Simpson doesn't mention him talking to them for any period (Which goes against what both Harry and Kay said) and that it was after that that Ruby turned up, and he says they talked for at least an hour but maybe more (which ties in with Kay).

From the WC of Kay Olsen;

Quote

Mr. SPECTER. How long did you talk to Johnny?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I remember; no. And we were sitting there; it was late, and that's when Jack Ruby drove by.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did he drive by?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I can't be positive on these times.
Mr. SPECTER. About what time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess around 1.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he stop?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. We waved, and he stopped. He stopped at a red light and pulled in and he came in and sat in the car and talked to us for quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that conversation last?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess an hour or so at least.

What she says ties in with what Simpson said in regards to when Ruby arrived and how long they talked with Ruby. Earlier on in Mrs Olsen's testimony she says that she and Harry left the Sip and Nip club at 12, which considering its close proximity to the garage ties in with what Harry said.

Thought - at Midnight the Sip and Nip club closed and Harry Olsen and Kay leave and decide to drive over to the garage to see Simpson, when they arrive Simpson is otherwise pre-occupied so Harry and Kay park up to wait, at some point Kay (perhaps having drunk too much at the club) needs to take a 'break' and leaves the car and whilst she is 'otherwise pre-occupied', Simpson spots Harry in the car and goes over to talk and then Kay comes back and gets in to the car. The three chat for a bit and then Ruby turns up and Ruby, Harry and Kay chat for an hour or so...

Just had a look at Ruby's testimony to see what could be gleamed from it;

Quote

Mr. RUBY. I didn't tell you this part because at the time I thought a lot of Harry Carlson as a police officer, and either it slipped my mind in telling this, or it was more or less a reason for leaving it out, because I felt I didn't want to involve them in anything, because it was supposed to be a secret that he was going with this young lady. He had marital problems. I don't know if that is why I didn't tell you that. Anyway, I did leave it out. His name is Harry Carlson. Her name is Kathy Kay. And they talked and they carried on, and they thought I was the greatest guy in the world, and he stated they should cut this guy inch by inch into ribbons, and so on.
And she said, "Well, if he was in England, they would drag him through the streets and would have hung him." I forget what she said. I left them after a long delay. They kept me from leaving. They were constantly talking and were in a pretty dramatic mood. They were crying and carrying on.

Ruby saying he left them after a long time ties in with what Kay and Simpson said about them talking for an hour or so.

*What the deuce? Ruby is calling him Harry Carlson, he couldn't really have though that much of him to get his second name wrong. lol

I suppose now it's a case of seeing if the time Ruby turned up at the garage can be nailed down further. From the above it seems, to me, it has to have been at the earliest 1am.

Regards

EDIT: Could it have been as late as nearer 3am. Also, I just noticed this nugget: " In interview of 12/16 OLSEN stated they only talked to Jack for about ten minutes and Olsen placed the meeting at around 1:30 A.M. " ARGH, nothing is ever simple. lol

Edited by Alistair Briggs

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Alistair, I was just preparing a post with Mrs. Olsen's testimony...... ha.

 

Mr. SPECTER. How long did you stay there at the club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, they close at 12.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody else you knew someplace else?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, we went--do you want to know later what happened?
Mr. SPECTER. Fine.
Mrs. OLSEN. We went to the parking lot; we used to go over there and talk to Johnny.
Mr. SPECTER. Johnny who?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where is the parking lot located?
Mrs. OLSEN. Right behind the Carousel Club; across the street on--what street would that be?
Mr. SPECTER. Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Akard?
Mr. SPECTER. Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Jackson.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that at the intersection of Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Jackson and the next street down. What was that? Field Jackson and Field. And we sat in there and we talked.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you talk to Johnny?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I remember; no. And we were sitting there; it was late, and that's when Jack Ruby drove by.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did he drive by?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I can't be positive on these times.
Mr. SPECTER. About what time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess around 1.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he stop?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. We waved, and he stopped. He stopped at a red light and pulled in and he came in and sat in the car and talked to us for quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that conversation last?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess an hour or so at least.

---------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Is there anything else you can recollect about that conversation?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you talked to Ruby earlier on that Friday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. How long had you been at that parking lot before Ruby arrived?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess about an hour, as close as I can remember.

----------------------------
Mr. SPECTER. After Mr. Ruby left what did you and Mr. Olsen do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. We came home to my house.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at your house?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, let me see. It was kind of late, I guess around 3.

Edited by Michael Clark

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