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# TSBD Women in Scarves - Pre-Assassination Collection

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

Thank you for asking.

Sandy and I are trying to determine whether or not two women, one of whom ("A") is wearing a dark-colored headscarf and dark-colored clothing while standing with her back to the camera on the lower-left side of the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell, and the second one ("B") who is wearing a light-colored dress and a light-colored headscarf while walking up the steps to the immediate right of "A", .......... ..... [breath] ............... Well, .............. [breath] ............... we're trying to figure out if "A" and "B" exhibit the same characteristics as two women in a group of five headscarf-wearing women standing together in the Z-film, with the particular view of trying to determine whether or not the largest / tallest woman in that group of five (one of whom is barely visible, btw, but who can be seen, in un-cropped Altgens 6, to be wearing a headscarf, too) could be the same person as "A," above.

Actually I didn't ask anything, but was laughing at the remark Michael previously made. But seeing how you want me in the conversation, then I will say that the woman out at Elm Street seems to have have a figure that compliments her form fitting dress as the woman moving up the steps doesn't look to me to be pulling it off.

Don't recall who it was, but I  remember someone saying that running woman must have been pretty fast to have gotten to the steps around the time Patrolman Baker had, and yet the woman in the white looking dress in the Zapruder film is wearing high heels and now she is being considered as having beat the running woman and Patrolman Baker back to the stairs in even more record time.

Just giving the two women in white a cursory look - I don't think the woman on the stairs doesn't have the figure or the form fitting dress on like the woman in Zapruder's film had, but as fast as she must have been to be the Zapruder film woman- perhaps she changed dresses while beating Patrolman Baker to the stairs.

I also think the woman in white moving up the steps turned her body slightly to get around the woman to her immediate left. I don't see her trying to pull anyone up the stairs. I suspect that it is a shadow under her left arm or perhaps was carrying a purse.

Edited by Bill Miller

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Actually I didn't ask anything, but was laughing at the remark Michael previously made. But seeing how you want me in the conversation, then I will say that the woman out at Elm Street seems to have have a figure that compliments her form fitting dress as the woman moving up the steps doesn't look to me to be pulling it off.

Don't recall who it was, but I  remember someone saying that running woman must have been pretty fast to have gotten to the steps around the time Patrolman Baker had, and yet the woman in the white looking dress in the Zapruder film is wearing high heels and now she is being considered as having beat the running woman and Patrolman Baker back to the stairs in even more record time.

Just giving the two women in white a cursory look - I don't think the woman on the stairs doesn't have the figure or the form fitting dress on like the woman in Zapruder's film had, but as fast as she must have been to be the Zapruder film woman- perhaps she changed dresses while beating Patrolman Baker to the stairs.

I also think the woman in white moving up the steps turned her body slightly to get around the woman to her immediate left. I don't see her trying to pull anyone up the stairs. I suspect that it is a shadow under her left arm or perhaps was carrying a purse.

Dear William,

You can't see Woman In White pull Woman In Black's right arm up to a horizontal position?  Do you think that's not Woman In Black's arm, but Woman In White's black coat on her (Woman In White's) left arm, instead?

Do you think a gust of wind might have blown Big Girl's dress out a bit, to make her hips look even wider than they were?

If Running Woman was standing on the upper part of the grass or on the concrete "patio" near the pergola during the motorcade, and if Big Girl was standing only about 1/3 of the way down Elm Street, don't you think Big Girl could have beat Running Woman to the Island / Steps?  For that matter, does it look to you as though Running Woman is running towards or from that part of the Island that's closest to the steps?

--  Tommy

Edited by Thomas Graves

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9 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

You can't see Woman In White pull Woman In Black's right arm up to a horizontal position?  Do you think that's not Woman In Black's arm, but Woman In White's black coat on her (Woman In White's) left arm, instead?

Do you think a gust of wind might have blown Big Girl's dress out a bit, to make her hips look even wider than they were?

If Running Woman was standing on the upper part of the grass or on the concrete "patio" near the pergola during the motorcade, and if Big Girl was standing only about 1/3 of the way down Elm Street, don't you think Big Girl could have beat Running Woman to the Island / Steps?  For that matter, does it look to you as though Running Woman is running towards or from that part of the Island that's closest to the steps?

--  Tommy

My response was quite clear and doesn't need to be repeated.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2017 at 4:40 AM, Bill Miller said:

[...]

deleted

Edited by Thomas Graves

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On 3/10/2017 at 4:40 AM, Bill Miller said:
On 3/9/2017 at 6:45 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

You can't see Woman In White pull Woman In Black's right arm up to a horizontal position?  Do you think that's not Woman In Black's arm, but Woman In White's black coat on her (Woman In White's) left arm, instead?

Do you think a gust of wind might have blown Big Girl's dress out a bit, to make her hips look even wider than they were?

If Running Woman was standing on the upper part of the grass or on the concrete "patio" near the pergola during the motorcade, and if Big Girl was standing only about 1/3 of the way down Elm Street, don't you think Big Girl could have beat Running Woman to the Island / Steps?  For that matter, does it look to you as though Running Woman is running towards or from that part of the Island that's closest to the steps?

--  Tommy

My response was quite clear and doesn't need to be repeated.

Bumped for comments from members who aren't living by that river in Egypt.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2017 at 1:38 AM, Thomas Graves said:

[...]

Quote

Bill Miller wrote, "What is the point of this thread? [...]"

I responded:

Thank you for asking, William.

Sandy and I are trying to determine whether or not two women, one of whom ("A") is wearing a dark-colored headscarf and dark-colored clothing while standing with her back to the camera on the lower-left side of the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell, and the second one ("B") who is wearing a light-colored dress and a light-colored headscarf while walking up the steps to the immediate right of "A", .......... ..... [breath] ............... Well, .............. [breath] ............... we're trying to figure out if "A" and "B" exhibit the same characteristics as two women in a group of five headscarf-wearing women standing together in the Z-film, with the particular view of trying to determine whether or not the largest / tallest woman in that group of five (one of whom is barely visible, btw, but who can be seen, in un-cropped Altgens 6, to be wearing a headscarf, too) could be the same person as "A," above.

Sandy and I are also trying to determine if any of the other women in the Group of Five Headscarf-Wearing Women on Elm Street can be seen in close proximity to "A" and "B" in Couch-Darnell.  Sandy and I believe that if the answer to that question is "yes," it would tend to confirm, from a probability point of view (bearing in mind that of the twenty-or-so women visible on the north side of Elm Street in that particular, grossly-mislabeled Z-frame, below, only six of them are wearing headscarves, and of those six, five are standing together in a group. suggesting that these five are friends / TSBD co-workers who came to the motorcade together, and who are, therefore, likely to leave Elm Street / return to work together), ... it would tend to confirm that the largish / tallish headscarf-wearing woman on Elm Street is ... "A".

Why then, you might ask, is Sandy concentrating on so many headscarf-wearing women in Weigman, etc?

Answer:  Sandy, being a very thorough investigator, is trying to determine if "A" and / or "B"" was one / were both of those women in Weigman, etc, instead, thereby pretty much ruling out the possibility that "A" is  ... well, ... Gloria Calvery!

Why?  Because we know from Calvery's FBI statement that she was standing down pretty far on Elm Street proper (with three or four other women, three of whom were were co-workers), not on Elm Street Extension in front of the TSBD, nor on the upper reaches of Elm Street proper (relatively far from where the limo was when the first shot rang out, etc, etc, etc) during the motorcade.

--  Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited by Thomas Graves

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On 3/9/2017 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

You can't see Woman In White pull Woman In Black's right arm up to a horizontal position?  Do you think that's not Woman In Black's arm, but Woman In White's black coat on her (Woman In White's) left arm, instead?

At one point you thought one woman had an oversized left arm with a hand on the wall which was the sun shining off a woman you didn't even see - and now you are asking me to see things that your eagle eye has spotted.  .

On 3/9/2017 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Do you think a gust of wind might have blown Big Girl's dress out a bit, to make her hips look even wider than they were?

A gust of wind -      Do you know from what direction the wind was blowing at the time of the assassination?

On 3/9/2017 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Graves said:

If Running Woman was standing on the upper part of the grass or on the concrete "patio" near the pergola during the motorcade, and if Big Girl was standing only about 1/3 of the way down Elm Street, don't you think Big Girl could have beat Running Woman to the Island / Steps?  For that matter, does it look to you as though Running Woman is running towards or from that part of the Island that's closest to the steps?

--  Tommy

Seems like a lot of ifs are being implied. In the beginning there was doubts being tossed about concerning whether it was possible for running woman to have gotten back to the steps to meet Patrolman Baker having come all the way from Elm Street. Now you have Big Girl beating her by so much that she can be already standing on the steps having a chat with Washout Man.  I don't think so.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2017 at 1:38 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

Quote

Thank you for asking.

Sandy and I are trying to determine whether or not two women, one of whom ("A") is wearing a dark-colored headscarf and dark-colored clothing while standing with her back to the camera on the lower-left side of the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell, and the second one ("B") who is wearing a light-colored dress and a light-colored headscarf while walking up the steps to the immediate right of "A", .......... ..... [breath] ............... Well, .............. [breath] ............... we're trying to figure out if "A" and "B" exhibit the same characteristics as two women in a group of five headscarf-wearing women standing together in the Z-film, with the particular view of trying to determine whether or not the largest / tallest woman in that group of five (one of whom is barely visible, btw, but who can be seen, in un-cropped Altgens 6, to be wearing a headscarf, too) could be the same person as "A," above.

Sandy and I are also trying to determine if any of the other women in the Group of Five Headscarf-Wearing Women on Elm Street can be seen in close proximity to "A" and "B" in Couch-Darnell.  Sandy and I believe that if the answer to that question is "yes," it would tend to confirm, from a probability point of view (bearing in mind that of the twenty-or-so women visible on the north side of Elm Street in that particular, grossly-mislabeled Z-frame, below, only six of them are wearing headscarves, and of those six, five are standing together in a group. suggesting that these five are friends / TSBD co-workers who came to the motorcade together, and who are, therefore, likely to leave Elm Street / return to work together), ... it would tend to confirm that the largish / tallish headscarf-wearing woman on Elm Street is ... "A".

Why then, you might ask, is Sandy concentrating on so many headscarf-wearing women in Weigman, etc?

Answer:  Sandy, being a very thorough investigator, is trying to determine if "A" and / or "B"" was one / were both of those women in Weigman, etc, instead, thereby pretty much ruling out the possibility that "A" is  ... well, ... Gloria Calvery!

Why?  Because we know from Calvery's FBI statement that she was standing down pretty far on Elm Street proper (with three or four other women, three of whom were were co-workers), not on Elm Street Extension in front of the TSBD, nor on the upper reaches of Elm Street proper (relatively far from where the limo was when the first shot rang out, etc, etc, etc) during the motorcade.

--  Tommy

Dear William,

What do you think that black thing under Woman In White's left arm is as she walks up the steps in Couch-Darnell?  A mink stole?  A beach towel?

And why does Woman In White walk so strangely up the steps, twisting her body and tilting her shoulders so?

Could it be that she has Woman In Black by the right arm, and is trying to pull her up the steps?

--  Tommy

PS  Where do you think your Running Woman started running from?  The railway yard?

(Remember: Gloria Calvery said she was standing on Elm Street, not Elm Street Extension, when the motorcade passed by.)

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Posted (edited)

Does anybody know where this photo came from?

Here are the women I see in scarves:  (I will use as a reference the GAP between the two people which reveals the taillight of a car.)

1. The second person to our right of the GAP is an older, big busted woman wearing dark clothes and a white scarf. I will call her White Scarf Big Busted Older Woman.
2. Just to her left, back one row, is a woman with dark hair and a light scarf. I will call her Light Scarf Dark Hair Woman.
3. The third woman to our left of the gap (not counting the nearly hidden one standing behind) might be wearing a scarf. I will call her Dark Scarf Gray Coat & Bag Woman.

So the scarf-wearing women are:

White Scarf Big Busted Older Woman
Light Scarf Dark Hair Woman
Dark Scarf Gray Coat & Bag Woman

The older woman on our very right may also be wearing a scarf.

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2017 at 7:18 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Does anybody know where this photo came from?

Here are the women I see in scarves:  (I will use as a reference the GAP between the two people which reveals the taillight of a car.)

1. The second person to our right of the GAP is an older, big busted woman wearing dark clothes and a white scarf. I will call her White Scarf Big Busted Older Woman.
2. Just to her left, back one row, is a woman with dark hair and a light scarf. I will call her Light Scarf Dark Hair Woman.
3. The third woman to our left of the gap (not counting the nearly hidden one standing behind) might be wearing a scarf. I will call her Dark Scarf Gray Coat & Bag Woman.

So the scarf-wearing women are:

White Scarf Big Busted Older Woman
Light Scarf Dark Hair Woman
Dark Scarf Gray Coat & Bag Woman

The older woman on our very right may also be wearing a scarf.

Sandy,

That's a frame from the Dave Weigman film.

--  Tommy

PS  Do you think Gloria Calvery might be in there somewhere?  (LOL)

Edited by Thomas Graves

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3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy,

That's a frame from the Dave Weigman film.

--  Tommy

PS  Do you think Gloria Calvery might be in there somewhere?  (LOL)

Thanks, Tommy.

No Gloria Calvery to be seen here. It seems like we've now seen most the spectators from the TSBD. There are two images I didn't post here because there are no scarf-wearing women in them. Maybe I should have posted them. Actually I remember now that one is Altgens 6. The other shows several black spectators. You might know which one I'm talking about just based on my description. I've seen that image several times before.

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17 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Thanks, Tommy.

No Gloria Calvery to be seen here. It seems like we've now seen most the spectators from the TSBD. There are two images I didn't post here because there are no scarf-wearing women in them. Maybe I should have posted them. Actually I remember now that one is Altgens 6. The other shows several black spectators. You might know which one I'm talking about just based on my description. I've seen that image several times before.

Why do you want to analyze those photos, if you don't mind my asking?

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59 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Why do you want to analyze those photos, if you don't mind my asking?

I'd like to be able to state that there is only one pre-assassination spectator who matches the woman talking to Lovelady. That way there would be no wiggle room for skeptics to seize upon.

Of course, I know that I can't remove all uncertainties. But the more I can, the better.

As for me, I'm already convinced that the one talking to Lovelady is the Big Girl in Zapruder. And I'm convinced that she is Gloria Calvery.

I'm furthermore convinced that, by the time Officer Baker arrived, Shelley was inside the TSBD. He was there to make the call to his wife.

I'm convinced that the first-day statements of Shelley and Lovelady are truthful, whereas their later affidavits and WC testimonies are full of lies.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I'd like to be able to state that there is only one pre-assassination spectator who matches the woman talking to Lovelady. That way there would be no wiggle room for skeptics to seize upon.

Of course, I know that I can't remove all uncertainties. But the more I can, the better.

As for me, I'm already convinced that the one talking to Lovelady is the Big Girl in Zapruder. And I'm convinced that she is Gloria Calvery.

I'm furthermore convinced that, by the time Officer Baker arrived, Shelley was inside the TSBD. He was there to make the call to his wife.

I'm convinced that the first-day statements of Shelley and Lovelady are truthful, whereas their later affidavits and WC testimonies are full of lies.

Sandy,

OK, but I think you're going to soon reach a point of dramatically-diminishing returns, and regardless, skeptics and / or "researchers" who have an agenda that doesn't allow our scenario to even be considered, will always say, "Well, the woman that guy on the steps is talking with could just as easily be a stranger off-the-street who is asking that nice bald-headed man (who just happens to look a little like Lovelady) where in tar-nation the nearest rest-room is so that she can go take the Mother of all wee-wees."

--  Tommy

Edited by Thomas Graves

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16 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

OK, but I think you're going to soon reach a point of dramatically-diminishing returns, ...

Yeah, I believe I just hit the brick wall on this one.

While it is true that I will never change the minds of people like Bill Miller, at least I can show other forum members -- whose opinions I might sway -- that I've done the work to prove my point.

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