Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
Sign in to follow this  
Steve Thomas

picnic at White Rock Lake

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, David Boylan said:

Steve,

I believe Salvat spoke English. From Mary Ferrell's site.

Fabian Escalante states in JFK: The Cuban Files, p. 177: "In October (1963), further information placed Salvat and Joaquin Martinez Pinillos with Fermin de Goicoechea in Dallas, in the company of arms smuggler John Thomas Masen, from whom they proposed to acquire weapons of all kinds, presumably stolen from the military depot at Fort Hood, for 'a second invasion of Cuba to take place at the end of the year.'...immediately after the assassination, Salvat and his group engaged in a wide-ranging media campaign charging Cuba with the crisis me, circulating Oswald's pro-communist and pro-Castro background, and arguing that the assassination was Cuba's reprisal for CIA attempts on the life of Fidel Castro."

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=23849&relPageId=4 AMHINT2 (Salvat) meeting with David Morales aka Stanley Zamka.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=42232&relPageId=3 Richard Cain being recruited by Salvat.

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AMHINT-2 Some good docs...

David,

What did you think of that second document where Salvat supposedly said that the DRE was being sponsored by the Pentagon, and not the CIA?

 

That one kind of threw me. What about the whole Joannides thing?

 

Steve Thomas

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

Have you ever seen a picture of Salvat? 

Steve Thomas

 

Here's a video interview of Salvat. It's in Spanish. He's an older man now, but it kind of gives you an idea of what he looked like.

When you go to the web page, you have to hit page 2, or the Next button to bring up the actual video.

 

http://merrick.library.miami.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/chc5212/id/733/rec/2

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

Have you ever seen a picture of Salvat?  Mrs. Castorr talks about a heavy set guy who couldn't speak English and might have looked like Howard.

I got to wondering if it was Pinollas and Salvat that came to visit Odio.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Here's a 1962 picture of Juan Manuel Salvat in an April 12, 2001 Miami New Times article by Jefferson Morley.

 

See p. 5 of this pdf file

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/C Disk/CIA DRE Cuban Student Directorate/Item 02.pdf

 

To me, he doesn't look like the sort of person Sylvia Odio or Mrs. Castorr describe.

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Steve. He doesn't look like any of the descriptions that Odio gave.

She was shown a whole book of pictures during the HSCA and didn't pick out anyone. I think this even included David Morales.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not nailed this down. At this point, this is just speculation, but...

 

I figured that most of the Cuban exiles held full-time jobs. If you're going to have a picnic with families, it would probably be on a weekend.

 

In 1976, Sylvia Odio told Gaeton Fonzi:

Also, there had been a big rally in a park on a liberation day (she didn't remember which day) and she delivered the invocation. That was covered by the newspapers and the television stations and she said the FBI later told her that it thought that Oswald could have been there mingling with the Cubans.”


 

CE 2390 (25H370)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=400&tab=page

 

FBI Agent Wallace Heitman interview of Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino July 8, 1964

resides at 719 N. Bishop St. in Dallas and is employed at El Chico Restaurant warehouse. Pino state that he is a member of SNFE. “He said that he remembers that a general reunion of various Cuban refugees had been held several months ago at a picnic grounds near White Rock Lake, and that a woman by the name of Odio had made a short speech at the reunion.”


 

Sylvia Odio vs. Liebeler & the La Fontaines

Written by James DiEugenio

Tuesday, 15 October 1996 23:18

“Gaeton Fonzi's interview with Silvia Odio for the Church Committee, reproduced here...”

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/sylvia-odio-vs-liebeler-the-la-fontaines

REPRODUCED AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES

RELEASED PER P. L. 102-526 (JFK ACT) 5-2-96

Notes – Silvia Odio interviewed 1/16/76


 

The two big holidays in Cuba are January 1 (when Castro came to power, and July 26)

25-27 July - National Rebelliousness Days

http://www.whatcuba.com/cuban-festivals.html
3 Days celebrating the beginning of the Cuban Revolution when Castro led a group to attack the Moncada barracks in Santiago de Cuba, during the carnival. The attack took place on 26 July but the day before and after have also been proclaimed as Cuban festivals. The dates still coincide with carnival and festivities are seen taking place throughout the country.

Sylvia wasn't living in Dallas in January, so this “liberation day” she mentions might be July 26, although I can't imagine a bunch of anti-Castro Cubans getting together to commemorate a Castro holiday.


 

Weisberg interview of the Castorr's:

W: You may not, but that's all right. What we have here are pictures collected of people we don't know too much about. These are some stills taken from the television films taken of the in White Rock Park. in the summer July 1963 I believe.

ITS Mrs. C: September, I believe.

Mr. W: Was that it._

W: Do you remember when that picnic was?

Mrs. C: Well, it was about mid-September of '63.

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2012.pdf page 1.

 

 

And, I got to wondering, what a KBOX radio truck would be doing at White Rock Lake on September 7, 1963.

 

September 08, 1963 - Page 6

Alice Daily Echo Newspaper Archives

https://newspaperarchive.com/alice-daily-echo-sep-08-1963-p-6/


 

Bv THE ASSOCIATED PRESS “Gusts of powerful winds struck in the Dallas area Saturday as a surprise rainstorm whipped into the roof of one residence and damaged another in Mesquite, a suburb just east of Dallas. State Police said no injuries resulted. The wind blew a wooden block through the windshield of a mobile news unit of Radio KBOX of Dallas while it was near White Rock Lake inside the Dallas city limits. On Dallas' North Central Expressway, the blast blew in the side of a service station. Tarpaulins protecting building construction work in downtown Dallas were whipped to shreds. The storm occurred during unexpected rain activity in Dallas and other parts of North Central and Northeast Texas. The rest of the state was unusually hot and nearly all places were dry.”

September 7, 1963 was a Saturday. The temperature was 102 degrees.


 

Posted by Andrej Stancak in the Education Forum 02/10/17

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23465-wynne-and-vicki-southland-center-1963/

I would like to turn the attention of Forum members to a remarkable testimony of Mr. Wynne Johnson. Wynne was 15 years old in 1963, and had a girlfriend Vicki. Vicki and Wynne liked to visit the roof of the Southland Center to view the scenery of Dallas. And so they did on September 7, 1963... Wynne and Vicki were approaching the Southland Center when a taxi cab passed and a young man, Lee Harvey Oswald, stepped out. Oswald entered the main lobby, met with Phillips and both men started to talk. Shortly, Veciana came in via a different entrance. And while the three men stood together in the lobby, Wynne and Vicki also entered a long corridor and headed towards the three men.”


 

Bill Kelly in JFKContercoup

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2017/08/castro-and-oswald-september-7-1963.html


 

Saturday September 7, 1963
That just happens to be the day Alpha 66 founder Antonio Veciana met with David Atlee Phillips and Lee Harvey Oswald at the Southland Center in Dallas, as well as the day Manuel Rodriguez arrived in Dallas to set up a branch of Alpha 66 and leased the safe house on Harlandale Avenue in Oak Cliff.

(I believe this is wrong about Rodriguez)


 

In a May 26, 1964 report filed by Wallace Heitman it showed the address of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro to be 2311 Nicholson St. Appt. D in Dallas.

CD 1085 page 220.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481#relPageId=220&tab=page

 

Rodriguez had previously been interviewed on February 10, and May 20, 1964.

 

Rodriguez registered as an alien of Dallas, Texas on September 6, 1963, at which time his address was reflected as 1208 Hudspeth Street. His last prior address was 5310 Columbia Street, Dallas.”

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481#relPageId=219&tab=page

Heitman had previously interviewed Orcarberro on February 10, 1964.

Informant T-1 had told Heitman that Orcarberro had lived at 5310 Columbia in Dallas.

According to Heitman, Rodririguez said he registered as an alien of Dallas, TX on September 6, 1963, at which time his address was reflected as 1208 Hudspeth St. His last prior address was listed as 5310 Columbia St., Dallas.

 

According to Sylvia Odio, it was the FBI who told her that Oswald was thought to have been seen at this picnic.

 

Steve Thomas


 


 


 


 


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ready for some double agent intrigue?
 
Involving Pino Pino, the Veciana family, and Castro's G-2 intelligence service?
 
Daniel Flores - foreman at El Chico Foods in Dallas, said Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino is a truck driver with his company
Jose Lecusay  said that Pino is married to my wife's aunt
(Lecusay was sec'y of propaganda at Dallas SNFE, allied with Alpha-66)\
 
Pino and Lecusay were both former members of Dallas SNFE
Lecusay - Guillermo Ruiz Rodriguez recently immigrated, staying at my home.
Ruiz advised Lecusay - Pino not trusted - he could be G-2
 

Guillermo Antonio Ruiz-Rodriguez, 10/11/65

brother in law to Lecusay
 Osvaldo Pino Pino dated Ruiz' aunt then they got married 
her name is Nelda Rodriguez
Nelda lives at Calle 184 in Havana
 
Look at this coincidence...
 
Nilda Veciana Lopez (Antonio Veciana's sister)
married to Orestes Guillermo Ruiz Perez (a key member of Castro's G-2 intelligence service)
 
Were they covering for one another?
 
Osvaldo Pino and his brother Oscar were members of ECLA, Christian Anticommunist Army
They were considered assets in March 62, when they let intel know they could get pix of Cuban bases, etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bill Simpich said:
Ready for some double agent intrigue?
 
Involving Pino Pino, the Veciana family, and Castro's G-2 intelligence service?

 

Bill,

 

How about some other double agent stuff...

 

Question: How many other of these crop duster pilots defected to the U.S. ?

If anyone has any information on other crop dusters, I would appreciate hearing about it.

In the Senate Select Committee files, aka the Church Committee Boxed Files, there is a document numbered 157-10014-10120, dated 1/19/76 from Paul Wallach, entitled “Oswald in New Orleans”.


On page 92 of this document, there is a memo from Dan Dwyer to The Files dated 9/23/75. In this memo, Dwyer describes looking at the Department of Justice Anti-Castro files from the late 1950’s to the early 1970’s.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462&search=157-10014-10120#relPageId=92&tab=page

One of the files that Dwyer examined is dated 1/22/60, entitled Anti-Fidel Castro Activities. The summary of this file reads,

“January 12, 1960, Raul Cross, pilot for Arbana Airlines. The Cuban Government was having thirty pilots trained in Mexico, (using cover that they were being trained as crop dusters). They were using instructors from Chile at $700/month.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1462&relPageId=96


Warren CD# 1085 is a letter from the Director of the FBI to Jay Lee Rankin dated June 11, 1964 with attached memos and reports.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=3

 

See here for a list of various reports from Wallace Heitman:

http://www.maryferrell.org/search.html?q=HEITMAN%20june%2025,%201964


One of the Reports included is a memo from Dallas SA Wallace Heitman dated April 29, 1964. This Report discusses the residents of an address in Garland, Texas and the sighting of a Rambler station wagon parked in front with a bumper sticker that says, “Kill the Kennedy Klan.”

On page 6 of his memo, Heitman says this his source told him that the two unnamed subjects of the memo had been employed by him (the source) for approximately one year. He said they were Cuban citizens and who were trained as duster pilots in Mexico for the Cuban Government and later defected from the Fidel Castro Government and came to the United States.

While Heitman’s memo is heavily redacted, other research has revealed the two residents of 806 E. Monica in Garland, TX were Raul Castro and Juan Quintana.

Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro had revealed that Raul Castro and Juan Quintana were members of Alpha-66 and the SNFE.

The two subjects were known to be violently anti-Castro and had attended the speech by Adlai Stevenson in Dallas when he got bonked on the head by a picket sign.

One of the two subjects of this memo entered the U.S. illegally by swimming across the Rio Grande at Lightner’s Pump (sp?) about five miles east of Brownsville, TX. He crossed with his friend who was apprehended. Records of the INS revealed to Heitman that the subject had left Cuba in blank, 1960 and went to Mexico, which he left on December 26, 1960.


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=215

page 6

 

Wallace Heitman and W. James Woods interviewed Raoul Castro on May 14, 1964. Their Report is dated May 22, 1964. Castro told them that he had entered Aviation Cadet School in Cuba in June, 1959, where he met Juan Francisco Quintana Maya. They were sent to Mexico, where they spent seven months. They returned to Cuba in May, 1960, spent twenty days there, and were sent back to Mexico for “link training, and to finish their course in crop dusting”. ( I don't know what “link training” is). Castro told them that it was obvious that the training they were receiving was military in nature.

Castro told the Agents that he owned the Rambler Station Wagon that had the bumper sticker (Kan the Kennedy Klan - which someone changed to "Kill" the Kennedy Klan - although Cast told the Agents that the bumper sticker was more benign than that).


The wives of both subjects of Heitman’s memo were Mexican sisters.

The INS files reveal that the subject stated that many of the students attending the two airline schools he attended were Communists and Fidel Castro supporters. He named several students (redacted) studying to be air traffic control operators were known Communists.

Just some food for thought: What if Raul Castro and Juan Quintana were double agents, sent to Mexico to ostensibly to train as crop dusters and then told to defect to the U.S. and infiltrate the anti-Castro Cuban exile community?

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf

page 2.

 

Mrs. C: These two men came to the Twilly home in the company of a very attractive Cuban girl who represented this student group and also Dean Perkins, whom I know very well, Dean and his wife Jan; I believes they are from the St. Bernard Parish and they were interested in the resettlement of the Cubans long before I ever became interested.

 

The St. Bernard of Clairvaux Church and School are on the edge of White Rock Lake in the Casa Linda subdivision of Dallas.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=%22St.+Bernard+of+Clairvaux%22+Dallas&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=32825749,-96704678,42&tbm=lcl&ved=0ahUKEwjM97rKpMHYAhUH5iYKHVxHAOkQtgMIKQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m3!1d227.00818608208203!2d-96.7046787!3d32.8257491!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i21!2i13!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf

page 2.

 

Mrs. C: These two men came to the Twilly home in the company of a very attractive Cuban girl who represented this student group and also Dean Perkins, whom I know very well, Dean and his wife Jan; I believes they are from the St. Bernard Parish and they were interested in the resettlement of the Cubans long before I ever became interested.

 

The St. Bernard of Clairvaux Church and School are on the edge of White Rock Lake in the Casa Linda subdivision of Dallas.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=%22St.+Bernard+of+Clairvaux%22+Dallas&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=32825749,-96704678,42&tbm=lcl&ved=0ahUKEwjM97rKpMHYAhUH5iYKHVxHAOkQtgMIKQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m3!1d227.00818608208203!2d-96.7046787!3d32.8257491!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i21!2i13!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2

 

Steve Thomas

Miami FBI Agent James O'Connor interview of Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos 12/23/63:


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57746&relPageId=29&search=Pinillos

page 29

FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 59

 

"Mr. Pinollos stated that Dean Perkins, 11022 Genetta Dr. Dallas, Texas assisted the DRE in organizing the meetings and arranging the publicity attached to the meetings".

 

Google Maps location of 11022 Genetta Dr.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/11022+Genetta+Dr,+Dallas,+TX+75228/@32.8491218,-96.717248,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864ea6ce43ee4b2f:0x3cfd02d66ed0d4db!8m2!3d32.8439529!4d-96.656844

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×