Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Jack White]

Steve...there are several good timelines on Google. Just enter

TIMELINE BUSH FLORIDA 911.

Jack

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Steve...there are several good timelines on Google. Just enter

TIMELINE BUSH FLORIDA 911.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Jack..

[Guest Stephen Turner]

This is where I stand..

If 9-11 2001 is so important, why is it so hard to find out what happened?

The FBI, as we know, blocked all manner of investigations into the plot in the run

up to its execution,whether these involved highly specific warnings from its own

agents, or from government sources in Afganistan, Argentina, Britain, Egypt, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morrocco, Russia & The Caymen islands.

I also worry why the nearest military aircraft wern't scrambled to intercept the

hijacked flights, when this is standard procedure, and why, when more distant

jets were finally aloft, they flew at less than half speed, thus failing to prevent the

impacts, & then, it would seem, managing to shoot down flight 93 when its passengers may already have overcome the hijackers. It would if course, be easier to know what happened to flight 93 if there wern't-according to edicated

estimates-Three mins of cockpit recording missing. It would be equally handy to

have access to the black boxes from the other crashes. Firefighters at ground

zero have repeatedly stated, that three of the four boxes were found and taken

away by Government Agents. And this may be less important than clear links

between between the Pakistani ISI, the CIA, and the men named as the 9-11

hijackers. or the mysterious inability of anyoneto capture Osama Bin Laden, who

fled from Tora-Bora, by helicopter, and then escaped to Pakistan unhindered.

So while Chinese paperclips are now made out of vital 9-11 evidence, and almost

every implicated party goes free, we and our controlling U S interests continue

to terrorise countries unconnected with the attacks, to place permanent military

bases near oil reserves and pipeline routes, to harass, and murder Muslims

everywhere, and to foment resistance at every opportunity. The U K unmasks

non-existent ricin plots, and threatens us with I D cards but cant supply our

troops in Iraq with working radios, or a legal causus belli.

But you'd never want to think that no 9-11 2001, covert U S government

intervention killed thousands of innocents and handed the country, if not the

World, to a Corperate backing-torture loving-far right wing group. that would

make you a parnoid, C T, and, take it from me, thats just plain uncomfortable.....

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Evan.

I shant post a timeline,as this stuff is all over the net. Most I admit pro-C T,

but some good neutral sites as well, even one or two hostile to us paranoid

types timeline bush florida 9-11, will get you more than you can "shake a stick

at" Steve..

[Evan Burton]

Evan.

I shant post a timeline,as this stuff is all over the net. Most I admit pro-C T,

but some good neutral sites as well, even one or two hostile to us paranoid

types   timeline bush florida 9-11, will get you more than you can "shake a stick

at"  Steve..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL!

I'll start searching with my stick a'shaking, Stephen! As I said, I haven't really read anything about this so far, except for the Pentagon issues.

Thanks for your time.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Evan.

I shant post a timeline,as this stuff is all over the net. Most I admit pro-C T,

but some good neutral sites as well, even one or two hostile to us paranoid

types   timeline bush florida 9-11, will get you more than you can "shake a stick

at"  Steve..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL!

I'll start searching with my stick a'shaking, Stephen! As I said, I haven't really read anything about this so far, except for the Pentagon issues.

Thanks for your time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem..

Just be careful where you wander, some of the stuff is so "Far out" I found

myself thinking "What a nut job"( Yes little ol C/ T me) one guy thinks it was

all done with mirrors

[Guest Stephen Turner]

It would be nice for others to post on this subject,either pro or con

in its own way its much bigger than the assassination of jfk...

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Evan, Jack, and others

People have begun discussing 9-11 on a thread in the JFKR site. I have asked

them to post any relevant comments HERE. Never know, we might get a good

discussion going.... Steve.

[Bob Goodman]

9/11 and The Kennedy assassination do seem to have at least some similarities. The squashing of investigations, the unanswerable questions. Even a similar international dimension with Israel taking the place of Cuba. We helped to create Castro as well as Bin Ladin. The desprate allies (Cuban/Israeli) who could possibly commit any atrocity to get what they want with the help of their friends and supporters in our government. And the trails that lead here, there and everywhere but mostly nowhere. The large number of websites and storys carrying the false leads and ridiculous leads is familar. False leads...where do they come from? Lot of time and money is spent to make those and the outright kooky ones. Notice how the kookieness is made to order for around the water cooler, did it with mirrors indeed. There is a money trail. Did the SEC investigate trading before and after 9/11? That is the trail to follow. I think I would start there. Does anyone know of any financial investigations of 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh there's a money trail alright, check out the stock "put" options placed on United

& American Airlines, in the days running up to 9-11.Somebody made millions from

a foreknowledge of the events. & by the way, the CIA was electronically following

these put options. Just more of those darned coincidences I guess.

[Craig Lamson]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh there's a money trail alright, check out the stock "put" options placed on United

& American Airlines, in the days running up to 9-11.Somebody made millions from

a foreknowledge of the events. & by the way, the CIA was electronically following

these put options. Just more of those darned coincidences I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could be wrong but I seem to remember that no one ever claimed the put options. In any case they were worth millions, about 5 IIRC, hardly big bucks in todays world.

[John Geraghty]

I wanted to start a thread that discusses the dehumanization of unliked political figures, George Bush being the perfect example.

I was reading an article in the Sunday times today about Bonos(u2 front man) meeting with George Bush and how surprisingly he liked him and thought him to be charming and witty.

It is speculated that 9/11 was not carried out by islamic terrorists, but rather by people seeking to go to war in Iraq and take further control of the country. It is theorized that Bush knew about and was part of this plot, perhaps unwittingly.

My Question is, do we demonize people (like bush) to make it seem more likely in our own heads that he was capable of committing such a crime. Do not take this to be just about Bush, whoever it is believed carried out the attacks as part of a conspiracy.

Do we see them only as military or corporate hawks who sit around a circular desk all day plotting to take over the US, these people probably have families who like them and think them to be good people, though this would make it increasingly difficult for people to accept that they were part of a conspiracy.

Having said this, people that appear to be good and decent (or descent-see tim gratzs post on another thread) in their home lives may make decisions that they dont have to face up to or deal with head on in real life.

For example, people who orderes the napalm bombing of Vietnam, they saw only territory to be won and did not take into account the civilian casualties on the ground.

I guess if you were talking in economic terms, you would call this an externality whereby someone does something for their own good but, a third party is injured by that action.

I ask you all this in any instance, but most of all in the context of the JFK assassination and the '9/11 'conspiracy (i use inverted commas as i do not know if there was a conspiracy in this case)

Any thoughts are welcome

John

[Evan Burton]

I would have to agree, and I don't think it's limited to just politicians.

It's not often you will hear someone say:

"I strongly disagree with his policies and the way he conducted his Presidency, but I think he's probably a nice person"

Perhaps it's in our nature to assign all the worst qualities to someone if we strongly disagree with them.

Sure, there are people you can disagree with and respect (it happens all the time on this forum), but when we disagree strongly we seem to find additional reasons to enhance that dislike. Not just "they are wrong because of these logical reasons" but "they are wrong for all these logical reasons, and I bet they stole from their grandmother, too!".

Your example of military action is very good for this point. Sometimes (not always) when military personnel engage in military action we disagree with, we demonise them in different ways.

"They are killers"

"They are just mindless automatons"

"They enjoy this; they are war-mongers"

Similarly, if we AGREE with the action, we tend to assign the best qualities to them:

"Protecting our freedom"

"Serving the country with honour"

There is also 'guilt by association'. G.W. Bush launched military action in Iraq. Tony Blair supported the action, as did our own John Howard.

If you strongly object to the action, GW is a ruthless war-monger. Blair and Howard are just his evil toadys; but how much does the average American know about their performance as Prime Ministers? Similarly, how much does the average Australian really know about how GW has performed as President on domestic or other foreign issues?

Since we disagree on at least one major point, most tend to automatically oppose ANY position taken by them - and we try to find bad things about them to help reinforce OUR belief that WE are right.

I think this is demonstrated in opposing political parties as well - at least in Australia. If the government has a policy, then the opposition (as the name implies) will take an opposite viewpoint, saying it is badly flawed, designed to serve the rich / unions (pick one depending on which side of politics). It is very rare to see an opposition say "That's a very good idea. It will help people, serve out interests, and we support it".

[Derek McMillan]

There is an old adage in football, "If you can't get the ball get the bloke." However paradoxically personal politics of this kind are far more common when there is little real difference in policy.

Blair and the current Tory leader have identical policies. They engaged in a week of personal campaigning attacking the arrogance and dishonesty of the one and the "Old Tory" heartlessness and general creepiness of the other.

It is a substitute for discussing the issues.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh there's a money trail alright, check out the stock "put" options placed on United

& American Airlines, in the days running up to 9-11.Somebody made millions from

a foreknowledge of the events. & by the way, the CIA was electronically following

these put options. Just more of those darned coincidences I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could be wrong but I seem to remember that no one ever claimed the put options. In any case they were worth millions, about 5 IIRC, hardly big bucks in todays world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For anyone interested in this Google "put options 9-11" and make your own mind

up. The total money unclaimed ammounts to about $25,000,000. But its the CIA'S

behavior that is more ,to say the least, Strange.