Religious Groups connected to the JFK Assassination

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, as I said, I can easily imagine that at some point the FBI would indeed want to monitor the diploma mills....for a variety of purposes, heck, religious deferrals had been an issue all the way back to WWII and dramatically escalated in the 60's in regard to draft evasion. Ordination papers and titles could also be used as a cover for foreign agents, especially useful if they wanted to be mobile and come with a credible sort of introduction. I've recently posted on my blog that the FBI went to the trouble to track and monitor ex-patriots in Mexico, in the process they collected information from a host of both Mexican and American groups on both sides of the border. Beyond that, given that many of the traveling Bishops were violating federal laws, using the diploma mills as an information source would be little different from planting a source inside the FPCC to copy all its various mailing and contact lists (which we know they did). Cooperating with the FBI is neither illegal or that hard to understand, during most of my life it would have been considered a duty and highly patriotic.

You won't find an argument from me that the FBI might well have tried to obtain domestic intelligence that way, seems very consistent with all my research.

[Stephen Roy]

In addition, Carl Stanley came forward to the FBI right after the assassination of JFK claiming that Ferrie and Martin were involved.

That's a mistake. Stanley didn't talk to the FBI in 1963-4. It was 1967, as I recall, not long before his death.

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks Steven - sorry for the mistake.

[Paul Brancato]

Banister was ex-FBI, and was associated with at least 5 wandering bishops. Sounds like they were at least part of his operations. I think Banister was still working for the FBI. Of course his files are missing.

[Larry Hancock]

Actually I think his files turned up, sorry for the memory lapse but the fellow who wrote about the monkey virus actually saw what he thought were the majority of them, in the possession of INCA after Bannister's death. That would make a great deal of sense; Bannister might even have been building them for INCA. Stephen can probably clear that up but I do recall it being in either the first or second issue of the monkey virus book. There were also some descriptions of those files, some subjects being largely newspaper clippings...but that's just my memory. Of course INCA appears to have been largely an anti-communist messaging and propaganda effort.

As to Bannister, we do know that it was standard practice for former FBI agents to start their own investigative / PI offices and provide information to the Bureau, generally on an unsolicited basis but on occasion the Bureau seems to have referred jobs their way as well. The CIA did the same as in the case of Robert Meheau. Easy enough to use them for illegal wire taps or other activities that crossed the border line for the bureau or the CIA's domestic boundaries. Beyond that, they could also serve as domestic covers in the same way that government agencies overseas do. In late 1961 Bannister's business was evaluated as a domestic CIA cover. All voluntary of course. The CIA had a list of vetted professionals including lawyers, doctors, psychologists etc. The FBI had its own lists of private investigators. It simply was and no doubt remains common trade-craft to use certain types of media, business and investigative agencies for domestic intelligence activities.

Not trying to bore anybody with this but its important to point out that those have been practices in place for decades, not at all unique to the early 60s' where we normally focus our attentions.

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks Larry. Maheu is a perfect example of this. I would like Stephen to clear up the matter of Banister's files. I read a later edition of Mary's Monkey and do recall the story you mention. Is he a member of this board? I wish I could get a reaction to the Levenda essays that are quoted in their entirety at the beginning of this thread, and keep hoping that by posting here that someone other than yourself will chip in. I find Levenda's work extremely interesting.

Having heard a lengthy radio interview with him I feel I know more about his larger viewpoint, which is that the incorporation of so many 'former' nazis into our national security state was revealing of the true connections between their ideology and those Americans that facilitated that incorporation, and resulted in the destruction of our Democracy. It is in the mysteries of MKULTRA that those connections reveal themselves for the horror that they are.

[Stephen Roy]

Paul, if you mean me:

I don't believe Banister's files ended up at INCA. They all seem to have been accounted for, given to family, right-wingers, etc. The Louisiana State Police made a listing of file names/numbers (which I have),and it strongly suggests that Banister's files were made predominantly from newspaper articles or congressional reports. Red-hunting stuff.

I have little faith in things claimed in Dr. Mary's Monkey by Ed Haslam. The parts related to the usual New Orleans cast - Ferrie, Banister, Butler, Sherman - overlap with my research, and I can say with authority that Haslam gets things wrong or exaggerates.

[Pamela Brown]

Stephen Roy said:

I have little faith in things claimed in Dr. Mary's Monkey by Ed Haslam. The parts related to the usual New Orleans cast - Ferrie, Banister, Butler, Sherman - overlap with my research, and I can say with authority that Haslam gets things wrong or exaggerates.

It seems to me Ed Haslam created a parallel universe of intriguing (to some) possibilities that he was not necessarily trying to prove in MF+TMV (original version). But then Judyth came along and seemed to walk right into this parallel universe and claim that it was not only real, but the only reality. And Haslam seems to have followed her in this ridiculous endeavor.

BTW, we all know the first person JVB said she told about her affair with Lee was her sister Debbee, but who was the first person she told about the 'bioweapon plot'? And just when did that take place? :-0

[Douglas Caddy]

Kent Courtney, a close friend of Guy Banister, reported that he witnessed Mary Banister burning many of her husband's files after his death.

http://www.jfk-online.com/jpskentchsca.html

Edited October 26, 2014 by Douglas Caddy

[Stephen Roy]

Larry:

You're right about the diploma mills ("ordination mills"). There was publicity about an HEW investigation in 1960, and Jack Martin claimed that the whole Carl Stanley thing was such an investigation. By about 1962-3, Ferrie went off with another offshoot of these groups. Although unspoken at the time, the one run by George Hyde was one of the first "gay-friendly" denominations. Hyde was celebrated until his recent death (and after) as an LGBT pioneer.

By the way, here's a link to what I mean about Hyde's church being an early gay-friendly group. Ferrie seems to have seriously joined it in about 1963.

http://lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=96

Edited October 26, 2014 by Stephen Roy

[Stephen Roy]

Kent Courtney, a close friend of Guy Banister, reported that he witnessed Mary Banister burning many of her husband's files after his death.

http://www.jfk-online.com/jpskentchsca.html

"Some," at least. I think she burned some of his actual investigative files. At least some of them are said to have related to Banister's time with the NOPD, the many battles he had there. Other collections included the newspaper/congressional report files (the one Garrison referenced) and a collection of books on intelligence and red-hunting.

[Paul Brancato]

Stephen - I actually meant the author of Mary's Monkey. I didn't check Haslam's first name before I posted. But I appreciate that you are particating and know something about Banister's files. I guess I am not quite up on this, remembering from somewhere early on that Banister's files had disappeared. The posts here make me think that the truth is still in flux. It is interesting that you recall that at least some of the files burned by Banister's sister Mary were investigative, and not just newspaper clippings.

I am glad this thread is being kept alive, but I really wish someone would seriously address Levenda's work.