Sixth Floor Candidates

[Duke Lane]

... I likewise think that it has been long and often debated whether or not LHO could have done the things that were attributed to him given the time constraints that he had, which were at the time unknown to him. That is was possible was proven, in my opinion, by Mack and Perry in Unsolved History, even while I object to the program's use of a fitness buff to portray the hurrying Oswald (or the crack shot to portray the shooter Oswald).

What is true, however, is that Oswald didn't know he'd have any time constraint: he had no idea he'd encounter Baker until he encountered Baker, and thus couldn't have known he'd have to rush down the stairs so quickly and cover his tracks by being in the lunch room, coke-in-hand or not.

What intrigues me more than the arguments about whether LHO could've done what he's purported to have done or not is that nobody seems to consider the actions of anyone else who didn't apparently have any such constraints, and managed - if his actions were deliberate or at someone else's direction - to work around them quite admirably ... to the extent that not even today, much less back then, nobody considers anyone in the building other than Oswald to be a possible perpetrator.

Nor do they seem to have worked out how someone - other than Oswald - could have abetted the shooters' escape (presuming there to be more than one, and none of them Oswald). Yet information to support this possibility has been before us for more than 40 years. That would be an interesting debate! Maybe someday, I'll start it .... cool.gif

The shooter/decoy was allowed to escape by Roy Truly. It was the person encountered by Baker on the third - or more likely - fourth floor as per his affidavit. Baker never encountered Oswald an any floor. There are a number of extremely enlightening threads relating to this currently on the Lancer forum, and I have previously discussed the issue here.

I suspect the 40+ information you refer to is not Baker's affidavit -- however, your ideas are always interesting, so I hope you do start that debate.

Well, let's see how much debate there is.

The debate against the charge that Lee Oswald was on the sixth floor shooting at the President provides much "reasonable doubt," which itself argues against a legal conviction of the man for the crime that History alone says he committed.

Part of that debate includes:

1. Whether, how and when he got a rifle into the TSBD and up onto the sixth floor: the doubt arises from Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle's insitence that the package he'd brought to work wasn't as long as was necessary to enclose the rifle, even disassembled; Frazier's description of the package fitting completely under his arm, cupped in his hand at the bottom and not extending past his shoulder; Lee's apparent lack of access to the materials needed to construct the package (they were determined to have come from a recently-used roll of paper in the TSBD shipping department, which Troy Eugene West said he rarely if ever left), the lack of time necessary to construct it in situ (necessary since the tape machine wet the tape when pulling it out, and the need to use it right away), and the lack of any observation by Frazier of Oswald's brining it home with him on Thursday night (it was too bulky to conceal easily); and the failure of anyone to see Oswald either bringing it into the TSBD that morning (or any other), or seeing him retrieve the package from anywhere within or without the building and bringing it to the sixth floor; and, of course, the failure of the crime scene investigators to photograph it in place or at any other time within the TSBD building.
   
2. His whereabouts before, during and after the shooting: he was last admittedly seen on the sixth floor at about 11:50-11:55 as "the boys" working on the flooring broke early to wash up prior to the start of the parade, yelling to someone to "send the elevator back up" so he could presumably ride it back down; his own statement of eating lunch in the presence - but not necessarily the company - of two black guys, one who was short and the other who went by "Junior" (both of whom said they were there at the time in question, but did not admit to seeing Oswald ... but if he wasn't there, how would he know they were?); his being seen on the first floor by a female employee (I'm bad with names!) at 1:15 or possibly later (when, with the motorcade due to arrive in a matter of a few minutes, he should've been setting up his ambush); his ability - indeed the necessity - to get down four flights of stairs after the shooting within about 90 seconds in time to be confronted by Officer Baker while appearing "cool" and "calm" (which, as noted above, he would have no way of knowing would happen, whether or not he was a - or the - shooter); and his being seen shortly after that encounter by Geraldean Reid walking through the main office area on the second floor, coke (or Coca-Cola) in hand, again (or still) calm and collected; and his own purported statements to DPD Captain Fritz as to his whereabouts during these times.
   
3. His not being seen nor heard by anyone upstairs before or after the shooting: Bonnie Ray Williams, "Junior" Jarman and Hank "Shorty" Norman(!) claimed to have not heard any commotion on the floor above them other than the "clinking" of shells on the floor (but not the thump of racing footsteps); Bonnie Ray had himself been on the sixth floor as late as 12:15-12:20 and did not see him - or anyone else - despite the fact that Oswald would have had to have been there, very probably having to pass Williams' eating spot, to be in the "sniper's nest" in time for the motorcade's passing; and the failure of Jack Dougherty, another TSBD "order picker" to either see or hear Oswald either on the sixth floor or on the stiarway down from there, near which Dougherty was standing as Oswald purportedly made his dash downstairs; and the failure of any of these four men to have heard either the shooting itself (or adjudged its location) or either the rifle being tossed among the boxes upstairs, or the boxes being moved to allow the rifle to be hidden among them.
   

This list is by no means all-inclusive nor exhaustive, but is at least representative of the arguments against Lee Oswald having been shooting at the President. Where Oswald made statements that were backed up by others' testimony (e.g., being in the domino room during lunch, being on the first floor later, etc.), he was adjudged a "xxxx" without any explanation of how he'd have known some of those things without having been where he'd claimed.

Before proceeding further, what other items might be included in this immediate scenario (i.e., leaving aside nitrate testing, etc., that happened later) that are typically cited to cast doubt upon Oswald's role as a/the shooter? The floor is open for suggestions ....

(Note: I've amended the last paragraph simply to add to the list before moving on to "If not Oswald, then who?" part of the discussion. I'm sure that no matter how many I've put in, I'll have overlooked one or a dozen that people think are important. This list was just off the top of my head ....)

Edited September 30, 2007 by Duke Lane

[Kathleen Collins]

The floor is open for discussion ....

According to John Armstrong's tome, Harvey and Lee, Lee Oswald and Mac Wallace were in the sniper's nest, Lee firing at Kennedy. Mac Wallace hadn't shown up for work Nov.22, 1963. His fingerprint was lifted from a cardboard box. Mac Wallace was known as Lyndon's Boy. He killed someone in the past and the judge gave him a 5-year suspended sentence. Lee was trying to implicate Harvey as the assassin.

Kathy

[Greg Parker]

Whether, how and when he got a rifle into the TSBD and up onto the sixth floor: the doubt arises from Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle's insitence that the package he'd brought to work wasn't as long as was necessary to enclose the rifle, even disassembled; Frazier's description of the package fitting completely under his arm, cupped in his hand at the bottom and not extending past his shoulder;

Duke, consider everything I say here as being in the musing stage of development.

The package may have been the wrong size for the M-C, but do we know if it was the wrong size for an Enfield or some other make?

Most in the LN camp claim Oswald rushed ahead of Frazier as they walked to work from the parking lot - presumably so that Frazier would not get a good look at the package. According to Frazier, this had been the first time Oswald had walked ahead.

However, Frazier also said in testimony, he sat in the car for a few minutes after Oswald got out - that Oswald stopped and waited - then started walking again when he saw Frazier get out. Thereafter, Oswald got further and further ahead as Frazier dawdled watching the rail cars being switched.

Is it not possible that he dawdled that morning, allowing Oswald to get well ahead, so the he could get a package from the back seat without being noticed? No one was asked if they saw Frazier carry anything that morning - and the first place he went on entering was the basement:

Mr. BALL - When you came in that morning to go to work where did you go first?

Mr. FRAZIER - I went like I did every morning, I went down in the basement there and hung up my coat and put up my lunch.

Look carefully at the above. Is he trying to give the false impression there was nothing unusual about this trip to the basement?

It appears that may be so.

He does testify he ate lunch there - alone - out of sight of everyone. However, in another part of his testimony he stated "most of the times I eat with the guys I work with [in the domino room]."

Note that he did not make the same slip up at the Shaw trial, making sure his "usual place" of eating matched the place he chose on 11/22:

Q: Where inside the building did you eat your lunch?

A: I usually eat my lunch in the basement where I hang up my coat. I sat down like I usually did and ate my lunch.

But hey, Frazier had the same (alleged cover) story as Oswald for any package he may or may not have brought that day. His lunch! Coincidentally, a sandwich and an apple which he had beside him in the car (recall that Oswald said in custody he had lunch - that being a cheese sandwich and an apple - which he also said he carried beside him in the car).

Note: I am not putting forward Frazier as a "6th floor candidate".

Edited September 30, 2007 by Greg Parker

[Duke Lane]

Duke, consider everything I say here as being in the musing stage of development. ... Note: I am not putting forward Frazier as a "6th floor candidate".

Interesting thoughts, but devil's advocacy at the moment. Have I pretty well covered the major areas which have been cited to elicit "reasonable doubt" whether LHO did or did not bring the rifle in, get it to the sixth floor and shoot it at the proper time, and manage to actually escape the building (as opposed to, say, merely leave it)?

Either way, while there certainly those with a more evil bent than others, the thing that's sometimes difficult to realize since I was so young when all this happened and they were so much older than I was then, is that Buell Frazier was a skinny little 19-year-old kid, and Lee Oswald wasn't much bigger or older. The were little more than kids, actually. And somehow we can put them, in our minds, in the center if not the lead of a small conspiracy as if it were all just a smaller, earlier version of Columbine with a slightly more high-profile target.

Suddenly, it's all so clear. My life is complete.

OK, not really. Wrong color wings, anyway. The point behind all that was, tho', that for some reason we're focusing on the young guys, and not those who typically hold a grudge. This wasn't to impress Jayne Mansfield, after all, and probably not Marina either.

Other thoughts to follow...

[Tim Gratz]

Neither am I necessarily offering Frazier as a conspirator/shooter, but it is clear, is it not, that either he or LHO are lying about the package?

Oswald claimed he took nothing but his lunch in to the TSBD and the ("mentally challenged?) TSBD employee, the only one who saw LHO enter the building testified that LHO indeed had no large package with him, supporting LHO's story.

Also supporting LHO's version is that no one saw him carrying the bag material to Irving and the inside of the bag had no rifle oil.

But why would Frazier, if he was lying about the package, continually claim that the package was too short for the M-C rifle? We all know that story.

It seems either LHO or Frazier had to be lying.

Not also that when Russo attempted to interview Frazier, Russo reports that Frazier was very, very nervous.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Admittedly, not in the immediate scenario, but since the immediate scenario is typically derived from the WCR.

If, and this is my opinion, the WCR and other reports were used to placate a nation through perpetuation of the Lone gunman assertion, it follows that it would be imprudent to name the conspirators in such reports. This is, for me, the greatest item to be used to cast doubt upon the guilt of LHO.

[Greg Parker]

Neither am I necessarily offering Frazier as a conspirator/shooter, but it is clear, is it not, that either he or LHO are lying about the package?

Oswald claimed he took nothing but his lunch in to the TSBD and the ("mentally challenged?) TSBD employee, the only one who saw LHO enter the building testified that LHO indeed had no large package with him, supporting LHO's story.

Also supporting LHO's version is that no one saw him carrying the bag material to Irving and the inside of the bag had no rifle oil.

But why would Frazier, if he was lying about the package, continually claim that the package was too short for the M-C rifle? We all know that story.

Tim, did he ever specifically say it was too short, or just more or less stick by his length estimate? If his estimate was correct, it was indeed too short for the M-C -- but perhaps not for a different rifle?

It seems either LHO or Frazier had to be lying.

Consider the curtain rod story. Frazier could not tell the police that LHO said the package was his lunch - that wouldn't wash with anyone.

Frazier either lied to the WC or at the Shaw trial as to where he usually ate lunch. I believe he inadvertently told the truth to the WC when he said he usually ate in the domino room - thus bringing into question why he chose that particular day to take his lunch upon arrival down into the basement (and later, eat it in that location). When Frazier told Ball about this trip downstairs, Ball immediately responded by asking if he'd seen Oswald there. Obviously Ball thought it might have been an initial hiding place for the M-C. If it was thought to be a potential hiding place for Oswald's rifle - the same must be said of any package Frazier may have had.

Not also that when Russo attempted to interview Frazier, Russo reports that Frazier was very, very nervous.

OK, not really. Wrong color wings, anyway. The point behind all that was, tho', that for some reason we're focusing on the young guys, and not those who typically hold a grudge. This wasn't to impress Jayne Mansfield, after all, and probably not Marina either.

Duke, I'm focusing on what the evidence suggests to me. I don't believe Frazier or Oswald shot anyone that day - with or without any grudges they may have had.

I think perhaps Frazier was asked to take a package to work and put it in a particular place without being noticed - but if he was, then he was just to say it was curtain rods. He did not adjust his estimate of the package to help frame Oswald because he had not known (prior to the assassination) he had been used to help with that frame.

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, MOST interesting. Of course he could easily have hid the package in the trunk of his vehicle so Oswald did not see it.

Is it your opinion, surmise, belief, that Frazier carried the M-C in to the TSBD?

And do you have an opinion who gave him the package?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

nobody seems to consider the actions of anyone else who didn't apparently have any such constraints, and managed ... to work around them quite admirably ... to the extent that not even today, much less back then, nobody considers anyone in the building other than Oswald to be a possible perpetrator.

Assuming we have eliminated Oswald, Truly, Frazier and Norman/Jarman/Williams as possible perpetrators, that would seem to leave Jack Daugherty as the one male TSBD employee who might fit the bill as someone who could have assisted the perpetrators. Daugherty was on the sixth floor shortly before the shooting, I think he testified, and was on the fifth floor when he heard the shots.

OK Duke, bring on your theory about Jack Daugherty. After forty years it must be ready for Prime Time.

Edited September 30, 2007 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Kathleen Collins]

The point behind all that... was that for some reason we're focusing on the young guys, and not those who typically hold a grudge. This wasn't to impress Jayne Mansfield, after all, and probably not Marina either.

Other thoughts to follow...

A trifle -- OK, I missed something. What does Jayne Mansfield have to do with Oswald, and what the hell is a "domino room"? I know Mansfield came from Texas and I know that the domino room was the lunch room of TSBD. But why is it called the "domino" room? Because of its decor?

Kathy

[Tim Gratz]

Kathleen, my assumption is that it was called a domino room not because it was painted in black and white rectangles (each having dots of the opposite color) but because employees used the room to play dominoes, a popular past-time.

[Duke Lane]

Neither am I necessarily offering Frazier as a conspirator/shooter, but it is clear, is it not, that either he or LHO are lying about the package?

Oswald claimed he took nothing but his lunch in to the TSBD and the ("mentally challenged?) TSBD employee [Jack Dougherty], the only one who saw LHO enter the building testified that LHO indeed had no large package with him, supporting LHO's story.

Also supporting LHO's version is that no one saw him carrying the bag material to Irving and the inside of the bag had no rifle oil.

But why would Frazier, if he was lying about the package, continually claim that the package was too short for the M-C rifle? We all know that story.

It seems either LHO or Frazier had to be lying.

Note also that when Russo attempted to interview Frazier, Russo reports that Frazier was very, very nervous.

Tim,

Thanks for those additional two points; is it not correct to also note that the sack held none of LHO prints, or am I mistaken on that point? Also, no fibers from the blanket in which the rifle - subsequently and supposedly wrapped in the sack - was supposedly stored in the Paines' garage? Is that a total of four more?

At this juncture, I'm just trying to enumerate the theoretically-exonerating aspects of this part of the case, i.e., those that might induce a "reasonable doubt" in someone's mind ("reasonable" always being in the eyes of the beholder, eh?).

As to Russo, I haven't read his work, but such a characterization surprises me given that the two have a mutual and reasonably close acquaintence in common. Not having been present for an (attempted) interview nor privy to any exchanges leading up to one, I can only conjecture that any "nervousness" could have been based on Russo's approach. Hard but not impossible to say. Guess I'll have to break down and buy another book, eh?

While I had observed - at 2:30 or so in the morning! - about the relative youth of Oswald and Frazier, it should also be fairly pointed out that callow youth can often be unfairly and unduly influenced into doing things that they don't realize their import until much later.

A fer-instance: Oswald's getting the TSBD job in the first place.

One of "the boys" testified that they had been working on the sixth-floor flooring as a means to provide work in lieu of laying off workers, as was TSBD's usual wont. As they struggled to find ways to employ their existing workers, does it seem odd at all that they would hire any additional people, and especially one whose duties would require more training than simply saying "here's a hammer, go bang nails?"

At least one guy who already knew where all the books were had to have been removed from that duty and made a nail-banger to make room for a new hire; someone (else?) also had to train the new guy. This at a time when cutting costs was commonly paramount? Why hire and train a new guy when you're trying to "make" work for the ones you've already got?

While 19-year-old Wesley Frazier was certainly not in a position to make such hiring decisions, could it have been he through whom the knowledge of such an employment opportunity flowed to the Oswald family? The underlying question of course is how, if someone knew of Lee Oswald's need of a job (as well as his past identification as a Soviet defector), could they have been certain that bringing a job opening to the attention of young Wes Frazier that the news would eventually reach the ears of its intended target? (This goes to bringing the patsy to the parade, rather than the parade to the patsy, of course.)

There wasn't any obvious way to ensure that, having been told of said employment opportunity by said brother, that Linnie Mae would get it to the attention of her neighbor's boarder's husband, especially given Linnie Mae's contention that, prior to the first week of October, 1963, she had never "officially" met Marina, and was only vaguely acquainted with Ruth Paine.

Linnie Mae testified (2H245, et seq.) that, despite having lived across the street from Ruth Paine, she had never actually met her prior to October, 1963 (other than perhaps at a birthday party her kids had attended at the Paine's home?), but had been friends - and visited often - with Ruth's next-door neighbor, Dorothy Roberts.

While visiting Roberts, Linnie Mae had observed and heard and perhaps to some extent participated in some degree of stilted conversation with Marina over the fence between Dorothy Roberts' yard and Ruth Paine's. She knew, for example, that Marina did not speak English (but does not purport to know what language she did speak), and said that it was "common knowledge" that Marina's husband didn't have work, and after all, "her baby was due right away as we understood it," so "being neighborly and everything," they "felt sorry" for her.

Roughly translated, that means "we gossiped about her all the time."

Linnie Mae indicated that she had suggested the Marina's husband look for work at some of the places that her brother had done, including a couple of delivery places where Lee couldn't have worked because (according to Ruth) he couldn't drive. Another was the TSBD, where Wesley had obtained employment the month before (2H212) during what was then what Linnie Mae called "the busy season" of getting schoolbooks out to schools.

More likely, it was the end of the busy season - or fast approaching it - since most schools would want to have their textbooks on hand before the school year starts, which in Texas is - I'm not sure if it was, in 1963 - in August. The testimony about layoffs supports the perspective that things were winding down by October and November, when Lee was hired and working.

While it doesn't seem likely - and maybe not even possible - that Frazier played any role in getting Lee the job (or him even finding out about a possible opening), he could still have play a thoroughly unwitting role in securing it for him ... if there was any sort of move afoot by that time to find a patsy.

Without any knowledge of what transpired at Oswald's interview - presumably with supervisor Bill Shelley, and possibly with VP and Superintendent Roy Truly - it is not unlikely that Oswald said that he'd heard about the job opening, ultimately, from Frazier ("and don't forget to tell him to mention my brother's name!").

Frazier, in turn, would or could presumably have known of Oswald from the gossip Linnie Mae undoubtedly repeated: he has a Russian wife; he's a disgraced Marine; he defected to the Soviet Union ... but above all, he needs a job. She needs him to have a job. Maybe Wes even thinks she's sort of cute, even if unavailable, who knows? He's 19, she's 22 ....

"So, Wes, this guy came in today, applied for a job, says he knows you. What can you tell us about him?" Keep it simple, don't make it sound bad (the guy needs a job to support his kids, after all) ... you get the picture.

To determine if this scenario even has any validity at all, you'd have to compare it against the dates when Kennedy's visit was proposed (assuming any kind of insider knowledge) through when it was announced and decided.

To then get Frazier to be bringing in a package - contents unknown - on November 22 without it being seen by Lee (and why not?), well, how might it have transpired? Who'd have convinced him? Where'd he have gotten the package - separately as paper and rifle, or already put together - to put into his trunk and thence into work? On what pretext - other than bringing a gun into work - might it have been accomplished?

It's been my understanding - or more accurately, I've heard it said - that it wasn't necessarily a case of Frazier lingering as much as it was Oswald hurrying since Nature was calling, somewhat urgently. Didn't Jack Dougherty, the only person to see Oswald enter, say he went immediately into the washroom?

Conversely, Frazier's explanation for having lingered in the first place was because he'd had an old heap that needed to be run to recharge the battery. Having been a grease monkey myself in years gone by, and being familiar with generator systems both 6V and 12V (I don't know which his old Ford or Chevy had), why would one need to rev the engine to spin the generator to charge the battery, when driving from Irving had just revved the engine, spun the generator and charged the battery?

That and the trips to the basement - both on his way in and especially during lunch - are the only things that I see to "indict" Frazier into any activities taking place in support of the shooting. Are there more? Nervousness, for any reason, 35+ years after the fact, doesn't seem to weigh in.

Unless, of course, you consider "the Wise Allegation" regarding Carl Mather to be of great significance? (I'm not saying it's not ....)

Neither am I necessarily offering Frazier as a conspirator/shooter, but it is clear, is it not, that either he or LHO are lying about the package? ... It seems either LHO or Frazier had to be lying.

Tim, did he ever specifically say it was too short, or just more or less stick by his length estimate? If his estimate was correct, it was indeed too short for the M-C -- but perhaps not for a different rifle?

Consider the curtain rod story. Frazier could not tell the police that LHO said the package was his lunch - that wouldn't wash with anyone.

Frazier either lied to the WC or at the Shaw trial as to where he usually ate lunch. I believe he inadvertently told the truth to the WC when he said he usually ate in the domino room - thus bringing into question why he chose that particular day to take his lunch upon arrival down into the basement (and later, eat it in that location). When Frazier told Ball about this trip downstairs, Ball immediately responded by asking if he'd seen Oswald there. Obviously Ball thought it might have been an initial hiding place for the M-C. If it was thought to be a potential hiding place for Oswald's rifle - the same must be said of any package Frazier may have had.

How could anyone who had no personal knowledge of the rifle say it was "too short" ... or avoid revealing personal knowledge of the rifle if he did? Clearly, "another" rifle could have fit into a shorter package, if it was shorter - or could be disassembled shorter - than the MC rifle. As I recall, Frazier only stuck by his length estimate in any case.

OK, not really. Wrong color wings, anyway. The point behind all that was, tho', that for some reason we're focusing on the young guys, and not those who typically hold a grudge. This wasn't to impress Jayne Mansfield, after all, and probably not Marina either.

Duke, I'm focusing on what the evidence suggests to me. I don't believe Frazier or Oswald shot anyone that day - with or without any grudges they may have had.

I think perhaps Frazier was asked to take a package to work and put it in a particular place without being noticed - but if he was, then he was just to say it was curtain rods. He did not adjust his estimate of the package to help frame Oswald because he had not known (prior to the assassination) he had been used to help with that frame.

Greg, MOST interesting. Of course he could easily have hid the package in the trunk of his vehicle so Oswald did not see it. Is it your opinion, surmise, belief, that Frazier carried the M-C in to the TSBD? And do you have an opinion who gave him the package?

I tend to go along with Greg, and Greg seems to agree with the possibility that someone else could have cajoled the callow into doing things they might well have not done on their own without, perhaps, some trust in persons maybe older than they. Still, Frazier had only been employed at TSBD for a couple of months: who would want to trust him not to look into the package?

And why would he not - other than threat to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness - not tell investigators of being asked to bring in such a package, surreptitiously and without even attempting to guess its contents? How could anyone be certain he wouldn't crack under pressure, which there likely may not have been any way to be confident that there wouldn't be any pressure? As it was, there wasn't, of course, but before the deed was done, who could've known? And how did he get his sister to go along with the "short bundle" story if it didn't happen that way?

As to Oswald's statements, it's always difficult to discern which may be accurately quoted and which may not. After all, the main man who was telling everyone what he'd said, himself claimed to have "taken no notes," a fact that either is not true (based on the notes that surfaced many years later) or such notes were fabricated long after the fact. Either way, there's no credible evidence to know what he did or didn't say while in custody about anything except what he said in public.

Oswald said he brought his lunch? Says who? Frazier says not. Does that necessarily make Frazier or Oswald the xxxx, when the person himself who alleged that Oswald made this claim either did make notes (which he denied under oath) or made them up later, but either way lied? All we can say for certain is that Fritz said that Oswald said something that contradicted what Frazier had said.

(What was VB's whole deal about how Oz lied about all of this, too, that he "couldn't have" gotten his lunch from the roach coach and all that, any more than he couldn't possibly have decided to have a Coke instead of Dr Pepper? It "makes no sense" for him to be like normal people, I guess.)

Edited September 30, 2007 by Duke Lane

[Tim Gratz]

Duke, I am really enjoying your posts.

I do recommend you read Russo's book. There is this additional point (from memory I don't have the book with me) I think he said someone told him the man who drove Oswald or the Oswald look-alike to the firing range was named Frazier and he identified the car as the same make and model that our Frazier did.

Interesting.

[Duke Lane]

The point behind all that... was that for some reason we're focusing on the young guys, and not those who typically hold a grudge. This wasn't to impress Jayne Mansfield, after all, and probably not Marina either.

A trifle -- OK, I missed something. What does Jayne Mansfield have to do with Oswald, and what the hell is a "domino room"? I know Mansfield came from Texas and I know that the domino room was the lunch room of TSBD. But why is it called the "domino" room? Because of its decor?

Kathy

Well, you're one up on me 'cuz I didn't know Jayne was from Texas ... tho' I do know what Mansfield is in Texas, just southeast of Fort Worth! Hmm ... I wonder if there's a connection? A correlation, perhaps, with Head Elementary?

Actually, it was an oblique reference to John Hinkley's intent to impress a famous actress of his time, Jodie Foster, when he shot Reagan.

Of course, the reference to Marina was based on the supposition that Oswald shot Kennedy because Kennedy was everything Oswald was not - handsome, rich, blah, blah - and that by so doing, Lee was going to show Marina what a "man" he was, and she was going to love him forever after as they sailed off into the setting sun.

Yeah, right. Ain't no hula music happenin' here.

[Tim Gratz]

I had the chance to check the Russo book. Frazier may be the "mystery man" who was with Oswald on the firing range. According to a statement Mrs. Garland Slack made to the FBI in late September of 1964, the man with Oswald identified himself as Frazier. And someone said the man was driving an older black Ford coupe, which apparently was the kind of vehicle Frazier had. Perhaps someone can confirm the kind of vehicle Frazier drove.

Here's another interesting little fact: Sterling Wood, who was at the time a 13 year old with his father Dr. Homer Wood at the driving range, when they encountered Oswald. Sterling told Russo something they had not told the WC: they KNEW it was Oswald because they once drove him home to Oak Cliff. Sterling said he was very afraid to talk because within a year after the assassination he was severely beaten. He stated he was beaten by Alan Tippit, the son of Officer J.D. Tippit.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!

P.S. Russo is careful to point out that he did not confirm that it was the young Tippit who beat Sterling Wood. Russo also comments that Frazier was a very nice man, a Littlle League coach, who he was sure was not a witting accomplice. On the other hand, Russo was certain that Frazier was withholding something.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Tim Gratz