Lee Harvey Oswald

[Robert Howard]

Thanks for that insight, Mr. White - I've been confused before regarding that, I've heard both Bloom & JCS before.

Jack, thanks for the clarification on that. I posted that bio from maryferrell, to point out to the inter-connections regarding Bloom, [motorcade, Ruby etc.,] and had never heard of Bloom in relation to Jaggar-Chiles Stovall. Again thanks.....

[Kathleen Collins]

Therefore it is maybe more worthwhile to talk to June and/or Rachel. I understand especially Rachel wants to see her father vindicated.

Wim

Mr. Dankbaar. I suppose it would be too much to hope for: to get a DNA sample from June and/or Rachel. Then to compare it to Robert Oswald, their "uncle." I don't believe Robert Oswald is their uncle. I don't think he's related to them or to LHO.

Kathy

[Robert Howard]

In the HSCA Report, Volume IV Testimony of Richard Helms...

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=181

the conversation concerns Lee H. Oswald's return from Russia, and questions to Helms from the HSCA's Mr. Fithian regarding various issues.....

Mr. Fithian:.....My question is, was the CIA aware of Oswald's defection and the extent of his radar training in 1959?

Helms: I don't know Mr Fithian. My impression is that we first heard of his defection through State Department channels. Having been a marine and therefore a responsibility of the Navy Department. I think the Agency would not have gotten very close to Mr. Oswald. They would not have regarded him as part of our responsibility.......

Moments later, Fithian's questioning turns to the following.....

Mr. Fithian: Is it your best assessment that in all probability that the Agency did not make any effort to assess the potential damage of Oswald’s——

Helms: I think that is right. In other words, he was another Marine, but what specialty he had, or what he had been involved with, I don’t think we would have gone into that unless it was volunteered to us in some form.

Mr. Fithian: Then the return of a defector to the United States, as Oswald did in 1962, is that —-would that trigger an action by the Agency to interview him?

To say Helms answer is overlooked by everybody, except the “conspiracy theorist’s” seems apropos.

Helms: Normally it would have, except that he would have been regarded by the Agency as a member, or a reserve member from the Defense Department, and therefore it would have been up to the Navy to take him over and talk to him.

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=181

With regards to the real Lee Harvey Oswald versus the official version of Lee Oswald of American History 101, I wanted to post this as one of many facts on record which are a rebuttal to the chroniclers of mythos. The truth is that they themselves do a disservice to the common good of the nation by presenting lies, half-truth's and distortions as facts and facts as the ranting's of conspiracy theorist's. Lee Harvey Oswald is the American version of Alfred Dreyfus, instead of chancing upon Emile Zola, he chanced upon Jack Ruby instead.

43 years after the assassination of JFK the seekers of truth encompass a large number of marginalized academics, historians and hopefully growing segment of the population, who hopefully do not need a talking head to learn what is going in in their own country. They have been able to reconstruct large chunks of what was really happening not only in Dallas in 1963, but throughout the United States and the rest of the world from that moment onward.....To say that it demolishes the assertions of accepted American History as is portrayed by the body politic, is in my view, an understatement.

There will be no point-counterpoint with any members of the Forum regarding this post as in the period of time I have been posting on the Forum, I have discovered that a real problem is engaging in point-counterpoint semantics has a very detrimental effect on individuals who seek the truth versus those who appear to engage in such theater of the absurd to intentionally distract from the information being presented, and more often than not, turn it into a Grand Inquisition of the qualifications of the individual presenting said data, all with the best of intentions of course.

Recently, there was a thread regarding The Kennedy Assassination Beyond Conspiracy......To say that the program is designed as pablum or the masses, would leave one open to being accused of the dreaded species of homo sapere conspirare instead, I offer the following observation. In the program, newcomers to the JFK saga, the 17-34 demographic get to see Ruth and Michael Paine et al, ad naseum. Ironically, they were conspicuously missing from the ARRB proceedings, not that it would have made any difference, mind you.

[Robert Howard]

Someone, I am not sure who, requested this document link, it is the Warren Commission's Oswald Chronology.

The actual document is entitled

OSWALD CHRONOLOGY PER WARREN COMMISSION REPORT.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

It is 175 pages long and the Record Identification Number [RIF] is 104-10065-10014....

Perhaps an even more interesting document is entitled

JFK Microfilm, Volume 1 p 394 National Archives

entry 45 Ruby Oswald Chronolgy, p 861

See

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/findi...s/register.html

One might think it would be a helpful research tool.....

[Jack White]

THEATER OF THE ABSURD! That is the best description yet of the "debate" allowed to go on here.

Jack

[Robert Howard]

THEATER OF THE ABSURD! That is the best description yet of the "debate" allowed to go on here.

Jack

I suppose you are light years ahead of the rest of us Jack, I've always had a great deal of respect for you. I've watched the Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald, and feel that you are probably right regarding Roscoe White, I am perplexed by the fact that you seem to have a considerable amount of ill will towards members of the Forum that do not agree with you, I am not concerned about whether or not anyone on the Forum feels I am credible or not, I have seen the likes of Brendan Slattery ridicule what is done here, I have seen the Hemming's and ostensible ex-Agency people come and ridicule the Forum and say it is a joke, but there are a lot of good people here and I count you among them, irregardless of what you may think of me......

[Robert Howard]

An Unfounded Observation about Lee Oswald?

I have read many allegations about Lee Harvey Oswald, many true and some utterly ridiculous. Regarding the latter, there is the example that he was a "card carrying member of the Communist Party." Even being a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, is not the same a being a member of the Communist Party.

Which leads me to the following allegation made by Charlie Kertz. It is an extremely important allegation, for reasons that will become obvious after reading the following.....From Benson's Who's Who in the JFK Assassination.

SOURCE: HSCA Report 65.6 KERTZ, CHARLIE, Oswald witness; founder of the New Orleans Charlie's Saints Marching Band. Kertz was the deputy constable who, in 1963, evicted Oswald from his apartment at 4907 Magazine Street. Kertz said to New Orleans Times-Picayune columnist Angus Lind in 1991. "It was a Friday afternoon, and it was very unusual to evict someone on a Friday afternoon.” According to Lind, "Kertz said he confronted Oswald with the order to evict, showed him his credentials and told him to get his personal belongings out of the furnished apartment; otherwise they would be placed on the sidewalk, routine eviction procedure." "The guy was so weird," said Kertz. "He didn't say a word. There was a woman with him who had a child. He came down the steps, took a right, and headed toward Audubon Park." After that, Kertz never saw him again. According to Lind, "[Kertz] and another constable went in, put a baby bed and some clothes on the sidewalk, then opened a closet and found three rifles. They unloaded them and put them out on the sidewalk. They then removed about 30 paperbacks from the closet. . . .and underneath them were two handguns, which they unloaded and put under the mattress of the baby bed. Kertz said he figured Oswald was “some kind of hunter.” Neighbors of Oswald’s when he lived at the Magazine Street apartment in New Orleans remember him as an odd duck. There are reports Oswald was often seen walking backwards.

Re the above there are 0 hits when searching Charlie Kertz, at NARA same goes for Angus Lind at NARA

Re the above there are 80 hits when searching New Orleans Times Picayune at NARA see below

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/27884/jfksnew.txt

The information below is regarding the same general time frame

ALVIN PRECHTER, Personnel Manager, William B. Reily Coffee Company, 640 Magazine Street, New Orleans, advised on October 1, 1963, that subject [Lee Harvey Oswald] terminated his employment on July 19, 1963. [NOTE: This conflicts with other information saying Oswald was fired.]

Quoted from the source for other information supplied to FBI on same day:

Mrs. GARNER [Jessie James Garner, landlord of 4905 Magazine Street in New Orleans, where the Oswalds had lived] advised on October 1, 1963, that the subject and his wife vacated their apartment on September 25, 1963. She said that Mrs. OSWALD and the child departed in a station wagon bearing Texas license plates and driven by the same woman who brought Mrs. OSWALD to New Orleans from Texas. Mrs. GARNER said that LEE OSWALD told her that his wife was going to have a baby and that she was going to Texas for her confinement. She remarked that OSWALD left New Orleans owing her $17.00 rent for the apartment.

I searched the HSCA Final Report Section 65.6, as mentioned above and did not find any reference to Lind or Kertz.......

[Kathleen Collins]

Reasons why the backyard photographs are faked.

(1) Same Lee Harvey Oswald face on 3 bodies.

(2) Chin is square, not pointed.

(3) Fingers are chopped off.

(4) Shadows are wrong.

(5) Left arm is too short.

(6) Rifle is wrong length

(7) Body is out of balance.

(8) Newspapers are wrong size.

(9) Rifle swivels are in the wrong place.

Jack, I believe the backyard photos are fake. It seems fairly obvious. Now, your friend John Armstrong wrote of 2 Oswalds -- Harvey, whom Ruby killed and Lee, who helped frame Harvey for the Assassination of President Kennedy.

If there was in fact a Lee Oswald, why couldn't the conspirators use his face for the Backyard Photos? He was a bit taller than Harvey, so they probably couldn't use his body in the pictures. But what about Lee's visage?

Kathy C

[Robert Howard]

Another area of the Oswald in Dallas manipulation that does not seem to have been adequately addressed is the following

ANCIRA, GONZALO ----- Sources: CD 1066 (332-6); JFK Collection List, pp. 49-50 (AMKW 87, 88) Mary's Comments: DOB: 12/15/29 POB: Nuevo Leon, Mexico Self-employed engineer, Rm. 1305, Hartford Bldg., Dallas, TX. (214) 747-1297. Mexican National who owns large 18,000-acre ranch near Nuevo Leon, Mexico, which he frequently visits. He planned to go to Mexico on 11/23/63, but when he was enroute to Laredo, he learned border was closed. He postponed visit until Sun., 11/24/63. On 5/20/63, Ancira rented P.O. Box 2915 and still had it on 4/22/64. (Oswald rented P.O. Box 2915 from 10/9/62 until 5/14/63.)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...sult&id=374

Am I the only person that believes the individual above deserves looking into?

Edited January 2, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Mark Knight]

An Unfounded Observation about Lee Oswald?

SOURCE: HSCA Report 65.6 KERTZ, CHARLIE, Oswald witness; founder of the New Orleans Charlie's Saints Marching Band. Kertz was the deputy constable who, in 1963, evicted Oswald from his apartment at 4907 Magazine Street. Kertz said to New Orleans Times-Picayune columnist Angus Lind in 1991. "It was a Friday afternoon, and it was very unusual to evict someone on a Friday afternoon.” According to Lind, "Kertz said he confronted Oswald with the order to evict, showed him his credentials and told him to get his personal belongings out of the furnished apartment; otherwise they would be placed on the sidewalk, routine eviction procedure." "The guy was so weird," said Kertz. "He didn't say a word. There was a woman with him who had a child. He came down the steps, took a right, and headed toward Audubon Park." After that, Kertz never saw him again. According to Lind, "[Kertz] and another constable went in, put a baby bed and some clothes on the sidewalk, then opened a closet and found three rifles. They unloaded them and put them out on the sidewalk. They then removed about 30 paperbacks from the closet. . . .and underneath them were two handguns, which they unloaded and put under the mattress of the baby bed. Kertz said he figured Oswald was “some kind of hunter.” Neighbors of Oswald’s when he lived at the Magazine Street apartment in New Orleans remember him as an odd duck. There are reports Oswald was often seen walking backwards.

Re the above there are 0 hits when searching Charlie Kertz, at NARA same goes for Angus Lind at NARA

Re the above there are 80 hits when searching New Orleans Times Picayune at NARA see below

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/27884/jfksnew.txt

Possibly the same Charlie Kertz?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...757C0A963948260 [From 1985]

http://www.legis.state.la.us/leg_docs/00RS...UT/0000HS4U.PDF

[From 2000]

Possible contact number for Charlie Kertz? [under Clerk of Court, Civil Department, 5th name from top]

http://www.metairie.com/gov/teleph.htm

I'd like to know more about Kertz's alleged statement that LHO, when evicted, had THREE rifles and TWO pistols. That would certainly shoot down the WC's conclusion that LHO only owned ONE rifle and ONE pistol after his return from the USSR.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Mark Knight

[Robert Howard]

An Unfounded Observation about Lee Oswald?

SOURCE: HSCA Report 65.6 KERTZ, CHARLIE, Oswald witness; founder of the New Orleans Charlie's Saints Marching Band. Kertz was the deputy constable who, in 1963, evicted Oswald from his apartment at 4907 Magazine Street. Kertz said to New Orleans Times-Picayune columnist Angus Lind in 1991. "It was a Friday afternoon, and it was very unusual to evict someone on a Friday afternoon.” According to Lind, "Kertz said he confronted Oswald with the order to evict, showed him his credentials and told him to get his personal belongings out of the furnished apartment; otherwise they would be placed on the sidewalk, routine eviction procedure." "The guy was so weird," said Kertz. "He didn't say a word. There was a woman with him who had a child. He came down the steps, took a right, and headed toward Audubon Park." After that, Kertz never saw him again. According to Lind, "[Kertz] and another constable went in, put a baby bed and some clothes on the sidewalk, then opened a closet and found three rifles. They unloaded them and put them out on the sidewalk. They then removed about 30 paperbacks from the closet. . . .and underneath them were two handguns, which they unloaded and put under the mattress of the baby bed. Kertz said he figured Oswald was “some kind of hunter.” Neighbors of Oswald’s when he lived at the Magazine Street apartment in New Orleans remember him as an odd duck. There are reports Oswald was often seen walking backwards.

Re the above there are 0 hits when searching Charlie Kertz, at NARA same goes for Angus Lind at NARA

Re the above there are 80 hits when searching New Orleans Times Picayune at NARA see below

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/27884/jfksnew.txt

Possibly the same Charlie Kertz?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...757C0A963948260 [From 1985]

http://www.legis.state.la.us/leg_docs/00RS...UT/0000HS4U.PDF

[From 2000]

Possible contact number for Charlie Kertz? [under Clerk of Court, Civil Department, 5th name from top]

http://www.metairie.com/gov/teleph.htm

I'd like to know more about Kertz's alleged statement that LHO, when evicted, had THREE rifles and TWO pistols. That would certainly shoot down the WC's conclusion that LHO only owned ONE rifle and ONE pistol after his return from the USSR.

When I looked into this story there did not seem to be a wealth of information concerning all of this which may seem strange in light of the magnitude of the allegations, my own take on that is that it might not even be true, thus corroborating information would be in dreadfully short supply.

The Oswald walking backwards factoid is also something that I would take with a huge grain of salt.

[Robert Howard]

No Title

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=4

Mrs. Marguerite Oswald 415 S. Main St.

Fort Worth, Texas November 17, 1965

I am of the opinion that debate must be had at this time. Then compare this Estes/Reed/Ranch suicide to Lee’s early actions of 1963 as well as to the Dempsey-Taylor reciept I furnished you. It is neccesary to understand that this woman’s husband bought the Estes pipeline and tried to work an angel (sic) angle on the land at the request of Estes or some of Estes’ bunch.

Except to tell you that Kennedy’s death forced the Federal Land Bank of Houston to count the land as belonging to the R.M. Read Estate in early December, 1963 and then caused the lien to be to someone other than the heirs of R.M. Read heirs. I cannot explain any further without sending information that would only confuse you. The fact is that things concerning the Read Ranch were straightening out until the government became certain that the press would cooperate fully in suppressing the truth. There are the Treasury Forms 1099 and 3435 (9-62) that will have to be considered since they were made out to the R.M. Read Estate as if the Read heirs owned the 12 sections which they do.

What is covered in the above paragraphs and the perjury against Estes, plus the killing of R.M. Read and his alleged killer, are but part of what would have been revealed if not for Lee’s death.

The U.S.A did send him to Russia and the U.S.A. and the State Department did guide and direct him even to buying the 6.5 mm rifle after a 6.5 Billon dollar contract was made public on Oct. 24, 1962 the date that Kennedy went down in history as having defeated both Russia and Cuba. This was calculated to make the public believe that Lee really did kill Kennedy, as well as to direct the public’s anger towards Lee for concerning himself with both the left and the right. In other words, both sides feared a full-scale investigation. (Note that October 24, 1962 would have been the date for Lee’s final discharge from the Marine Corp. had they not tricked him into working for the US Government and then not lived up to their end of the bargain to give him a good discharge upon returning from Russia.)

Yours Sincerely,

William R. Dobkins

PS You must either get the October 24, 1956 pictures of Kennedy in Pecos county or put pressure on to get them, as these pictures are important.

Robert......This letter was from

William R Dobkins

4029 Byers St

Monahans, Texas

See

Record: DOBKINS, WILLIAM RAY

Sources: CIA 1036-961; CIA 1130-989; CIA 1466-492-BG; CIA Box 15, Folder 14, Doc 6682 (MMF 1029)

Mary's

Comments: 201-782770. DOB: 1/16/37. POB: McCamey, TX. 5' 10". 155 lbs. Released from US Marine Corps 8/30/60 on dependency discharge. 10/16/63 issued passport Number D 658315. "...no record could be found of a visit by a person resembling subject [Dobkins] to the Cuban or Soviet Embassy."

Robert: Lloyd Kaffke and William Ray Dobkins were to in January 1969 be mentioned in a newspaper article in EL DIA, a leftist newspaper published in Mexico.

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

Edited January 3, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Martin Veld]

As I just finished a book about Lee Harvey Oswald and specially his journey from Minsk to Rotterdam I like to ask a question about that. Also in line with Marina’s testimonies and statements being true or not.

Marina has stated before the HSCA that during their travel form Minsk to Rotterdam back in 1962 Lee did not leave the train and was always with her.

Curious thing is that there is a map of a part of Berlin drawn in LHO’s notebook. But also his passport did not have a stamp from the passing of the village of Helmstedt which was, in those day’s in eastern Germany. Marina has this stamp.

Is there more known about this? Did he got out of the train in Berlin to meet someone?

Martin Huis in ‘t Veld

[Robert Howard]

As I just finished a book about Lee Harvey Oswald and specially his journey from Minsk to Rotterdam I like to ask a question about that. Also in line with Marina’s testimonies and statements being true or not.

Marina has stated before the HSCA that during their travel form Minsk to Rotterdam back in 1962 Lee did not leave the train and was always with her.

Curious thing is that there is a map of a part of Berlin drawn in LHO’s notebook. But also his passport did not have a stamp from the passing of the village of Helmstedt which was, in those day’s in eastern Germany. Marina has this stamp.

Is there more known about this? Did he got out of the train in Berlin to meet someone?

Martin Huis in ‘t Veld

Welcome to the Forum, Martin. As you might be aware, despite having the unenviable position of being the widow, of a slain presidential, so-called assassin, if I may be so bold; it has been documented over the course of both the Warren Commisison and the HSCA, that Marina has suffered with the fact that the words Marina and inconsistencies in her testimony have been very well documented. Everything from describing the activities of Lee in Russia to someone as "working with the RAND Corporation," a CIA front, which fit the description of another defector, but not Oswald, to the Warren Commission era statement, that Marina had lied to the Commission on areas of vital importance.

At the same time, it would not be fair to state the foregoing without also mentioning her being sequestered at the Inn of the Six Flags in the aftermath of the assassination, presumably being coerced to give the official version of events as described by the Secret Service, as well as having a translator who is on record as not "doing a very good job" of translating her statements, if not outright putting words in her mouth she probably never uttered.

Many members of the Forum have been keenly interested in the following website, which is on the other side of the Atlantic, and delves into the topics of Lee and Marina on their final leg home from Russia to the United States

See

http://oswaldinholland.web-log.nl/

[Robert Howard]

As I just finished a book about Lee Harvey Oswald and specially his journey from Minsk to Rotterdam I like to ask a question about that. Also in line with Marina’s testimonies and statements being true or not.

Marina has stated before the HSCA that during their travel form Minsk to Rotterdam back in 1962 Lee did not leave the train and was always with her.

Curious thing is that there is a map of a part of Berlin drawn in LHO’s notebook. But also his passport did not have a stamp from the passing of the village of Helmstedt which was, in those day’s in eastern Germany. Marina has this stamp.

Is there more known about this? Did he got out of the train in Berlin to meet someone?

Martin Huis in ‘t Veld

Welcome to the Forum, Martin. As you might be aware, despite having the unenviable position of being the widow, of a slain presidential, so-called assassin, if I may be so bold; it has been documented over the course of both the Warren Commisison and the HSCA, that Marina has suffered with the fact that the words Marina and inconsistencies in her testimony have been very well documented. Everything from describing the activities of Lee in Russia to someone as "working with the RAND Corporation," a CIA front, which fit the description of another defector, but not Oswald, to the Warren Commission era statement, that Marina had lied to the Commission on areas of vital importance.

ELEVEN FBI INTERVIEWS WITH MARINA AND LEE HARVEY OSWALD, LHO SPEECH,

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

The above document consists of 119 pages, it is one of the more lengthy documents from Oswald's 201 File.

I have not had a chance to look at it in detail, but it seems to contain a significant amount of material from Marina's sequestering at the Inn of the Six Flags, as well as material pertaining to the Russian period, before Lee and Marina returned to the United States in 1962, there is an interesting passage that Marina repeats regarding Ruth Paine's meticulous diary.

At the same time, it would not be fair to state the foregoing without also mentioning her being sequestered at the Inn of the Six Flags in the aftermath of the assassination, presumably being coerced to give the official version of events as described by the Secret Service, as well as having a translator who is on record as not "doing a very good job" of translating her statements, if not outright putting words in her mouth she probably never uttered.

Many members of the Forum have been keenly interested in the following website, which is on the other side of the Atlantic, and delves into the topics of Lee and Marina on their final leg home from Russia to the United States

See

http://oswaldinholland.web-log.nl/