Bill Miller

My belief based on the evidence as I see it. Maybe who ever over contrasted the shadow in the image with the red outline around what they me wish to be a person may see it differently.

I don't see anyone rising up. You certainly are not talking about this person standing on the steps - are you?

What does "meanwhile" mean??? Does it mean that if one doesn't darken the shadows inside the red circled area and show the frames leading up to that image that its pretty clear no one is there - then I agree. But then you did darken that area in this particular film frame capture - so what was your purpose in doing that? The woman in the light colored coat is casting her shadow on the steps. In the initial frames ... the sun shining on both sides of her shadow can be seen on the vertical sides of the stairs. With each frame that she rises up the stairs in - her shadow continually morphs to the point that it takes the shape seen in the red circle in the over contrasted quoted image.

I do not believe Lovelady lied about looking back and seeing Truly about to enter the building.

Around three minutes was the total time they made their trip to the Island - then to the RR Yard - and then back to the TSBD . And the last I recalled - a man cannot be in two places at the same time and as far as I am concerned ... both Shelley and Lovelady are walking away from the stairs in Darnell's film as Patrolman Baker is running across the Elm Street extension. Furthermore, Shelley and Lovelady are not seen on the steps in Darnell's film and I don't believe for a single minute that after hearing shots that Billy Lovelady decided to sit down on the steps so women could step over him as they made their way up the stairs. That notion doesn't even pass the laugh test in my view. I also think the idea that Truly and Baker waited around the steps for three minutes before entering the TSBD is preposterous. The whole idea for Baker was get up to the roof before any shooters got away. So in my view the camera rules over a misstatement.

The entire page 48 was about someone thinking there was a lady on the steps ahead of the light coated woman .... didn't look at page 47 to see if the same happened there. Regardless it didn't seem to bother you when Alistair and Sandy and others discussed it, so it really shouldn't now when I posted an enlarged version (not to ID people) in order to explain what some thought to be a leg of a woman turned sideways was no one at all. The shadows shifting as people moved up the stairs is what gave the false appearance of someone being there. Below is a smaller version so you can ID people if you like - have at it. However - Lovelady is not on the steps because if he was, then he could not have walked 15 to 25 steps before looking back and seeing Truly or the Patrolman Baker about to enter the building. Hope the images are much clearer to you now.

The lower leg thought to belong to a woman is sunlight shining off the vertical side of the step which formed as shadows.

The alleged lower leg is momentary sunlight shining on the vertical side of the steps between two shadows.

I believe I posted somewhere the witness's statement. Probably shouldn't jump threads. I have sent a message to Roberdeau because I think it was he who gave me the witness's name to begin with. I will post it when I find it.

Do a search in the thread for 'black' or 'black pants' for i posted it a couple of times a while back

So are we to ignore the witness who said Lee was wearing dark or black pants at work on the day of the assassination?

I guess it is possible that Lee ate a 30lb lunch.

If someone who has a gif animator would pull the first two or three frames from the gif and run them at 1.5sec intervals, then I am positive everyone will see that what they thought was the shape of a woman was in fact a shadow cast on the steps.

If someone can slow the animation down - I think what is said to be a leg is sunlight shining between the shadows being cast by the woman moving upo the stairs. The first two or so frames is the key here in my view.

Alistair, The animation shows the woman in the light colored coat below this person as moving up the stairs. I think your outline is of that woman's right side as she too was moving up the stairs.

I did and they do. My arms stayed right against my body. None of which is meaningful. What is meaningful is the way Prayer-Man is turned slightly to one side. Do you agree that if he turned so to be square on with the camera, then would not his girth widen even more? And by the way - isn't the man next to Frazier supposed to be Molina??

The white line on Prayer-Man was meant to be placed on the outer edge of the right arm to the outer edge of the left arm. Prayer-Man is not square with the camera, thus he or she is even wider than seen in this image. The image is so poor that some cannot even tell if Prayer-Man is a man or a woman, so to say that someone can tell that his or her elbow is extended away from the body is merely a self-serving wild guess in my view..

Often times a clip is clearer if seen at regular speed instead of inching it along .... can someone show the alleged images of the Oswald looking fellow at their normal speed (possibly looped) ? I question whether the man is wearing a high shirt collared shirt and suit jacket.

That was the whole purpose of this exercise. People closer to the camera should not have the same length line be so close to reaching from side to side on their person. Even if Prayer-Man was facing the camera, then he would be wider in the camera's eye than he or she is when turned at an angle away from the camera. Yet people are are closer to the camera have the same line on their person as Prayer-Man does and yet he being turned at an angle is still as wide as people who are closer to the camera. Of course this is not perfect, nor was it claimed to be. What it does however is point out some obvious flaws in Prayer-Man being Lee Oswald and is exactly why I recommended a personal skilled in Photogammetry examine this person to get a more precise measurement of this person's girth. In case you did not notice - the line across Prayer-Man is not running from shoulder to shoulder and is why I placed the same line on the other people in similar fashion with the exception of the man on the other side of Frazier - that man turned directly towards the camera has his line across the shoulders. Again, it is not my responsibility to be sure the claim that Prayer-Man may be Oswald - that obligation lies with those making the claim they could be one in the same person. I said that this matter should be looked at my someone skilled in Photogammetry so to insure the highest level of accuracy possible. If accuracy is not important, then disregard my recommendation.

Hi Ron! Your observation and others (right or wrong) certainly draws attention to how poor the image is for those wanting to know if it is Oswald or not. I do think however that this individual is too broad to be Lee. In this image he or she appears to be turned at a slight angle away from the camera which doesn't offer the total girth of this person. But even if we take the visible girth as it is and compare it to people who are far closer to the camera ... one can get a feel if the slim Lee Oswald should be as wide as this person labeled Prayer-Man seems to be. I have taken several lines of equal width and have placed them on other people. I would suggest that anyone truly interested in knowing if this person could be Lee Oswald ... that they have someone skilled in Photogammetry determine the girth of this person. Of course that obligation should lay with those going to all the trouble to have it be Lee. It just seems wrong to me that Prayer-Man when seen at a angle away from the camera should still be as wide as the man on the other side of Frazier who is seen from a straight on view.

I agree that the girth of the person doesn't fit Oswald in my view. Too broad of shoulders. Lee was rather thin.

Have you ever been on the extension in front of the stairs? Someone can be coming towards you crying and saying the President was shot and just as they are almost up to you there is time to ask if they are sure ... to which they immediately respond they saw the blood. Lovelady Mr. LOVELADY - I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot. (This statement could support the film) Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley? Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah. (That response is supported by the film) Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do? Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. (Started for the Island after meeting Calvery) We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building. Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building? Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building. (That response is supported by the film) Shelley Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound:? Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west. Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Then what happened? Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute. (Again this fits with the Darnell Film because when the running woman moves on after a slight pause when passing Shelley and Lovelady ... the two men do appear to move towards the Island.) Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there? Mr. BALL - Yes. Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly. (From the Island the two men looked back and saw Truly and Baker) Mr. BALL - And Truly? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building? Mr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in. Point: Which is the lie - meeting Calvery and moving to the Island within 15 to 25 steps in time to look back and see Truly and Baker about to enter the building before going to the RR Yard ................... or is the lie when it was said they had left the Island and gone to the RR Yard before taking their sweet time heading back to go into the TSBD to then see Calvery, and then witness Truly and Baker enter the front of the TSBD??? I say they got confused on the 3 - 4 minute timing for several times they said they met Calvery before going to the Island - and saw Truly and Baker before leaving the Island to head to the RR Yard.

I have said repeatedly that I believe the running woman is Calvery .... thus how long that was after the final shot is a moot point.

That is exactly what I have said with the exception that I also mentioned these men both said they met Calvery before making it to the Island. The mix up came when they spoke of their total time touring the Plaza after the shots were fired. Part of that I blame for the interviewer jumping all over the place with his questions. Regardless - both witnesses gave the order of events (2x I believe) before the latter 3 to 4 minute remark was made.