Denis Pointing

Should do Duncan...bet they dont!

If the BY photos were faked and latter planted as the photographic 'experts' claim then how is it possible that Oswald's own mother not only saw one of the set but actually helped destroy it on the very same day Kennedy was assassinated? This is the testimony from Marguerite Oswald, clearly stating that she not only saw one of the photos but also helped Marina in its destruction. It forms part of an article by the highly respected researcher Ian Griggs, hardly someone who could be accused of being a LN'er. Here's just a short piece:"Mrs. Marguerite Oswald, mother of Lee Harvey Oswald, testified before the Warren Commission at Washington D.C. on Monday 10th, Tuesday 11th and Wednesday 12th February 1964. "Now, gentlemen, this is some important facts. My daughter-in-law spoke to Mrs. Paine in Russian. 'Mamma', she says. So she takes me into the bedroom and closes the door. She said, 'Mamma, I show you.' She opened the closet, and in the closet was a load of books and papers. And she came out with a picture - a picture of Lee, with a gun. It said, 'To my daughter June'"The rest can be read here scroll down to the heading "Was there a fifth backyard photograph" http://www.jfklancer.com/bymain.html

Good for you Brian, I think you already realise from previous posts that I personally dont go along with your theory. But I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you presenting it. Brian, as long as its withing the forum rules, I would encourage you to post what you want, when you want. Denis.

Evan, I really wouldn't worry about it mate (not that I think you particularly are) any sensible member reading these crazy accusations would immediately realize that If you had in fact sent Mad Maggie "nasty" emails she would have posted them a long time ago with the utmost glee and satisfaction. These slurs on your character will reflect for more on Mad Maggie than they ever will on yours. All the best.

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lol C,mon now Bill, sarcasm really doesn't become you. Bury the hatchet, yeah?....and I dont mean bury it in me!!!

Tom Wilson believed [and believed he could prove in court] that one shot did come from the sewer below the GK, but he was NOT the first person to suggest that. Not by a long shot. O.K. Peter, thanks for answering, may I ask what you think of that particular theory?

Bill, Anyone reading that political essay by Oswald or listening to him being interviewed on radio couldn't help but be impressed by Oswald's extremely high intellect. I stand by that. But the second part of my post was meant to read firmly 'tongue in cheek'. To be honest I found it amusing that by posting that essay you were, albeit inadvertently, seemingly backing up the old LN claim that Oswald was a frustrated genius with a grudge against society. Forget that, I apologise, it really wasn't very nice to 'yank your chain'. But I'm going to play devil's advocate and pick up on a few of your points. I dont necessarily believe some of these answers but I think they are worth considering. "as why would a man seeking fame and to change history deny the deed?" In exchange for 'fame' Oswald was in effect committing suicide, if he had actully got out of the TSBD alive he would have been executed. And like many suicides, after its too late, the instinct for survival kicks in and they change their minds. Could that have happened to Oswald and explain his fleeing the scene and subsequent denial? "Oswald wasn't very intelligent, normal 117 IQ" I dont believe you really take those ridiculous IQ tests that seriously Bill. Some people's brains just dont work that way, other people just dont test well. There's many highly intelligent people, professional people, who would score bad in an IQ test. "You can judge Oswald any way you want, but if you have him killing JFK, wounding Connally, escaping from the scene, and killing Tippit, then that's pretty good for a day's work." But not unachievable. " he wasn't a loser, as he had a good, steady job, a wife, two beautiful kids" Are you kidding!! Oswald didn't have a "good steady job" it was a temporary job working for minimum wage. And Oswald's wife had just told him the night before the assassination that she wouldn't get back with him. Oswald was about to lose his "wife, (and) two beautiful kids". Could that have been the reason Oswald decided to go down in a blaze of glory? Like I said Bill, I'm playing devil's advocate here. But I still think they are all valid points. Well, Besides talking out of the side of your mouth, playing the devil's advocate and pulling my chain, you still want to talk about this seriously? You want to make the case for Oswald having an argument with his wife and respond by killing the President? That's assuming that he was actually in the window at 12:30 and pulled the trigger. I think you are fishing for a false motive for the Patsy. You say: ......different upbringing plus a bit of luck and he might have really amounted to something. He was only 24. How old are you? Have you been a Marine, been to Russia? Been to any foreign country? Mexico City? Do you speak any other languages? I think he was something. His motive wasn't to make money, he did have a steady job and could get another, had an apartment, wife, two beautiful kids and over $100 in his pocket. Those who claim Oswald was the 6th floor sniper certainly do have a hard time attributing a believable motive to him. He doesn't sound the kind of man who would be easily fooled or made a 'patsy' out of , does he? What he does sound like is a man who would have been totally frustrated with a society which didn't recognise his genius and made him carry out menial work, hmm interesting, where have I read that before? Show me where he claims to be a genius? That's a thought that is in Denis' mind, not Oswald's, and it betrays your own double entendres. This is the basic question, and there's no need to play the devil's advocate or play games - JFK was either killed by a deranged lone-nut in a spur of the moment rage, or he was killed as a result of a well planned and executed conspiracy or coup. And as to your question as to whether or not it is important that Oswald's IQ was tested, I think if you find out who had a complete record of these tests given to Oswald, including Herzog's MMPI, then you'll have a pretty good idea as to who had the capability of framing him, however smart or stupid he really was. BK Bill, please dont start misquoting me. I did NOT say Oswald had "an argument with his wife" I said his wife refused to get back with him, that's a lot more serious than an argument, she was in effect ending their marriage. At least that's how Oswald interpreted it, that morning he left his wedding ring in a cup. "He was only 24. How old are you? Have you been a Marine, been to Russia? Been to any foreign country? Mexico City? Do you speak any other languages? These are strange questions!! What relevance they have escapes me. But O.K. I'll answer: I'm a very young 55. I'm British, so no I never was in the USMC, does the Queens infantry count? Yes, Ive been to Russia twice. Yes, I'm lucky enough to have traveled very extensively thank you. No, never been to Mexico city. Yes, as well as English I speak Australian, American, New Zealand. etc LOL Bill, for the last time, Oswald DID NOT have a steady job...it was a TEMPORARY job. And there's a picture below of Oswald's 'apartment' WOW! I'm afraid you'll have to explain the remark "betrays your own double entendres" as I understand it a double entendre is one phrase with two meanings, the latter usually being risque, so I cant really grasp your meaning. But to be honest I cant really grasp the meaning of your entire post. You seem to have writen it in a great deal of anger. Perhaps we should precede when your'v cooled down a bit.

Hi Jack, is this the same Tom Wilson who came up with the 'sewer theory'?

Brian, good to see your still convinced in your theory, I can respect that. But can you answer something for me? Why didn't Mrs Kennedy or the Connolly's see the guns/blast coming from the interior of the doors? How could the assassins be sure they wouldn't?

It is a conspiracy to get you both to remember your passwords. Ah yes, and of course Len (special agent) Colby 'just happens' to be 'involved' yet again. VERY suspicious!!! I for one dont belive in coincidences. C'mon Len, own up...what are you doing to poor old Jack?

Mark, there are "facts or reason either way" I gave some in my post which you dont seem to have read properly, I shall repeat them. " A member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously, why would he have to? A simple raising of the arm, waving a hat or lifting a placard welcoming the president would have done the job just as well and gone completely unnoticed." Can you or anybody else counter that argument with a sensible argument? I'm really not interested in peoples belief or gut feelings. Thank you.

I have no real problem with accepting Witt may not be the original UM. I just see no reason to believe there was anything sinister in that. Some people will confess to anything...even murder, to get publicity. I also dont accept there was anything sinister in the original UM actions on the day of the assassination for the same reasons I posted earlier i.e. A member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously, why would he have to? A simple raising of the arm, waving a hat or lifting a placard welcoming the president would have done the job just as well and gone completely unnoticed. Can anyone explain that away? Because all I'm reading so far are post's from members saying they believe UM was part of the conspiracy. That's all very interesting and they are certainly entitled but without facts or reason to back it up its meaningless.

"and I begin to think there are those on these forums who's job it is to make sure this is so." Yet more thinly veiled accusations Peter? Whose the dis-info agent meant to be this time, me? LOL I would have hoped you might of stopped all that nonsense by now, what with you being a highly respected moderator and all.

Bill, "as why would a man seeking fame and to change history deny the deed?" In exchange for 'fame' Oswald was in effect committing suicide, if he had actully got out of the TSBD alive he would have been executed. And like many suicides, after its too late, the instinct for survival kicks in and they change their minds. Could that have happened to Oswald and explain his fleeing the scene and subsequent denial? "Oswald wasn't very intelligent, normal 117 IQ" I dont believe you really take those ridiculous IQ tests that seriously Bill. Some people's brains just dont work that way, other people just dont test well. There's many highly intelligent people, professional people, who would score bad in an IQ test. "You can judge Oswald any way you want, but if you have him killing JFK, wounding Connally, escaping from the scene, and killing Tippit, then that's pretty good for a day's work." But not unachievable. " he wasn't a loser, as he had a good, steady job, a wife, two beautiful kids" Are you kidding!! Oswald didn't have a "good steady job" it was a temporary job working for minimum wage. And Oswald's wife had just told him the night before the assassination that she wouldn't get back with him. Oswald was about to lose his "wife, (and) two beautiful kids". Could that have been the reason Oswald decided to go down in a blaze of glory? Like I said Bill, I'm playing devil's advocate here. But I still think they are all valid points.

Welcome to the forum Brian, can I just get this straight, or you seriously suggesting Kellermann or Greer shot the President? If you are then may I remind you they were being filmed or photographed by several people and were within a couple of feet of Mrs Kennedy and the Connolly's. I'm kinda thinking someone may have noticed. Apologises if I misunderstood your post. Denis.

Hi Jim, UM "calmly sat down on the curb" or sat down in a state of shock? I guess we'll never really know will we? And IMO if UM was part of the plot he would never have sat down to have a chat, he would have got away from the scene as quickly and discreetly as possible. One question Jim, do you not think a signaler would have found a more discreet way to signal? Waving an umbrella around in the air has always seemed a little too flamboyant to me, for some one who wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves. Denis.

I hope they don't use blanks. Well, according to many JFK and Hugh Grant do have ..uh..much in common.

And I believe Tom Hanks also stars in it.

I believe there's many on this forum who still actually believe 'umbrella man' was a part of the conspiracy. Incredible!!

Yes Bill, Oswald must have been an extremely intelligent guy to have wrote that, his grasp of politics and foresight was outstanding, who knows, differant upbringing plus a bit of luck and he might have really amounted to something. He doesn't sound the kind of man who would be easily fooled or made a 'patsy' out of , does he? What he does sound like is a man who would have been totally frustrated with a society which didn't recognise his genius and made him carry out menial work, hmm interesting, where have I read that before?

Of course the KGB recruited agents from the UK. It has been the strategy for those on the right to try and smear those on the left as being Soviet agents. In fact, the KGB did not work in this way. What we know about the Philby group is that they were recruited as agents by MI5 because they were right-wing activists. Philby and Burgess, for example, were both active in Neo-Nazi groups in the early 1930s. They were recruited by Maxwell Knight, who had been a founder member of the British fascists. MI5 and MI6 were established to stop socialism spreading to Britain. Wilson was smeared as a KGB agent because he had been elected to form a Labour government in 1964. The far-right is not very keen on democracy when the people elect a left-wing government. The very first Labour prime minister, Ramsay MacDonald was smeared as a Soviet agent via the forged Zinoviev Letter. This cost him the 1924 General Election. Attempts by Winston Churchill to portray Clement Attlee as a communist in 1945 failed, and even though he was on the right of the party, he provided us with the best period of British government in the 20th century. Wilson was only the third elected Labour prime minister. It therefore fitted the historical pattern to smear him as a Soviet spy. It was even worse than this. MI5 attempted to organize a coup against him. If we ever really elected a left-wing government, there is no doubt in my mind that the ruling elite would attempt to organize a military coup. Denis, do you think Philby was a real spy, or like Oswald, was he only playing games in his own mind? Then there's the case of Teddy Kennedy. Was he a KGB spy, a Congressional asset to the Soviets, or did he just write them a letter for a friend? Senator Kennedy cooperated with KGB: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2325107/posts Hi Bill, there's really no doubt Philby was a soviet agent...the guy defected to Russia to avoid capture. But thanks for that link on Teddy, I'd never realised that he'd ever been smeared that way. I presume you do believe it to be just a smear? John, thanks for answering, so Wilson wasn't the first labour Prime minister to be accused. That's fascinating, and something I'd not realised. I remember back in the 70's when I was 16/17 working in the offices (as a builder) of a communist publishing company, I believe they published the Daily Worker and the Morning Star, not too sure, their offices were situated at The Pavement, Clapham Common, above a butchers shop of all places. Anyway, every telephone had a 'sticker' on it saying "Remember this phone is bugged. Beware!!" At that young age I thought the warnings were preposterous....the very thought of our security bugging citizen's phones, who weren't breaking any laws, seemed laughable. Oh, it would be nice to be that innocent and naive again. LOL