Denis Pointing
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Posts posted by Denis Pointing
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...to study or for your collection. It was taken late in the afternoon, I think, likely by a FWST photographer.
I got it from Penn Jones.
Jack
Excellent, thank you. Denis.
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Well I'm sorry but it escapes me too !!
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Although I must admit your last two posts were indeed highly amusing Duke, fact is I dont come here for comic relief. Just let me know when you're ready to continue this thread in a less satirical manner and then perhaps we can carry on. Meanwhile, I think I'll go watch the comedy channel, your exquisite wit seems to have whet my appetite.
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Paul, I dont wish to sound unkind but doesn't it tell you something when 92 percent of the post's on this tread are from YOU!! GIVE IT UP.
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WOW!! FROM A RADIO TALK SHOW!! GUESS IT MUST BE TRUE THEN.
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Tippits patrol car, typical of the black police car "seen" by Robert's.
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The testimony of Earlene Robert's previously shown on this thread were taken on the 8th of April 1964, some four months and two weeks after 22 Nov. By this time Robert's was no longer even sure what date or day Kennedy was assassinated. Understandable, considering her age and health. So, out of fairness to Robert's, I searched for ealrier testimony. Below is an affidavit from Robert's made on the 5th December only 13 days after the 22.Nov. One would assume this to be a more accurate recollection of events. Three important discrepancies should be noted: Robert's is no longer standing up adjusting the TV, which would place her by the window, when Oswald enters. In this testimony Robert's is actually SITTING DOWN watching the TV. I dont think it's too unreasonable to suggest that it is from this sitting down position that Robert's observed the "police" car honking it's horn. And if that is the case then it seems unlikely Robert's could have seen more than the top of the car, not the car door and certainly not the Dallas Police insignia nor number written on it. Which begs the question, did Robert's see a police car or a civilian car?
The above may be totally irrelevant anyway, as in the the 5th Dec testimony Robert's makes absolutely no mention of ANY car honking outside her home! Which would now beg the question, did the incident even happen?
Finally, at the end of the December affidavit Robert's eyesight is quite sufficient to read and sign her own testimony, whilst in the April affidavit she makes rather a point in stating that her eyesight is so bad she is unable to do so. Kinda makes me wonder if Robert's was already "covering up" for herself in case it was ever suggested in the future that Robert's never in fact saw ANY car outside her home!
The following affidavit was executed by Earlene Roberts on December 5, 1963.
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS,
County of Dallas, ss:
I, Earlene Roberts, after being duly sworn, do depose and state:
I live at 1026 Beckley, Dallas, Texas, where I serve as housekeeper for a rooming house owned by Mr. & Mrs. A. C. Johnson.
On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:00 pm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President's assassination when a man I knew as O. H. Lee, but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into the front door and went to his room. Oswald did not have a jacket when he came in the house and I don't recall what type of clothing he was wearing.
Oswald went to his room and was only there a very few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a dark color and it was the type that zips up the front. He was zipping the jacket up as he left.
Oswald went out the front door. A moment later I looked out the window. I saw Lee Oswald standing on the curb at the bus stop just to the right, and on the same side of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once. I don't know how long Lee Oswald stood at the curb nor did I see which direction he went when he left there.
About thirty minutes later three Dallas policemen came to the house looking for Lee Harvey Oswald. We didn't know who Lee Harvey Oswald was until sometime later his picture was flashed on television. I then let the Dallas policemen in the room occupied by Lee Oswald. While the Dallas police were searching the room two FBI agents came in.
The police and FBI agents took everything in the room that belong to Lee Oswald and also took our pillow case and two towels and wash cloths.
I have made this statement, consisting of three pages, to Special Agents William N. Garter and Arthur W. Blake of the U.S. Secret Service. I have read this statement over and I find it to be true to the best of my knowledge.
Signed this 5th day of December 1963.
(S) Earlene Roberts,
EARLENE ROBERTS.
Hon. Ralph W. Yarborough
Affidavit of Ralph W. Yarborough
The following affidavit was executed by Ralph W. Yarborough on July 10, 1964.
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
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She did not say that he or they paid her social calls,
According to Robert's testimony: "I had worked for some policemen and sometimes they come by and tell me something that maybe their wives would want me to know, and I thought it was them," Well that sure sounds like a social call to me.
As to there being "no indication of any harassment nor pressure as suggested, just the opposite in fact," I couldn't agree more. In reality, Mrs Roberts must have been the first female Mason who, she said in the testimony you quoted, "I want you to understand that I have been put through the third degree and it's hard to remember." Or maybe that is an indication of "harrassment [or] pressure?" Or do you think maybe I'm reading more into it than she said?Robert's saying she was confused due to being "put through the third degree" doesn't necessary make it so Duke, I can certainly see no evidence of third degree tactics in this testimony. I belive Robert's was confused due to embarrassment because her story was fallen apart under questioning. It was becoming obvious Robert's had exaggerated the whole car honking incident out of all proportion.
As to her blindness in one eye preventing her from reading, there is also the distinct possibility, given her marriage in the 9th grade and being raised in a then-small (and still not very large) town, that she might've been illiterate or at least functionally so and used the blindness as an excuse.Considering Robert's worked as a PBX operator at the hotel Blackstone in 1938 and then as a nurse in 1949 I would say that was extremely unlikely. Both these jobs would demand reading skills.
On what do you base the presumption that it was "more likely a CIVILIAN car" that honked? She looked at it to see if it had "170" on the side, but it didn't, but it had a number even if she didn't pay attention to what it was once she knew what it wasn't. She did not say "I looked to see if it was a police car, but there were no numbers on it," thus leading us to such a possible if not "more likely" conclusion.I base that presumption on the fact that someone not able to read a deposition a few inches away due to partial blindness isn't to be deemed terribly reliable in telling the difference between a police car and a civilian car particular when according to Robert's: "Yes, and it was a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all" I'm not really convinced Robert's was even capable of seeing a number on the car door from the distance of her house to the road.
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The cite's are there Ray, if you care to look for them.
You asserted that KLIF broadcast the shooting of an Oak Cliff policeman at 1.33. You promised to post the link, and instead you posted THREE links. If it is too much trouble to tell us EXACTLY where this information can be found, could you at least please tell us which of the three links you posted contains the information that you promised?
When I can find the link Ray I will indeed post it, that's a promise..... With respect. DENIS.Its actually 4 links not 3 and all 4 contain the citations you ask for. The ED forum citation is probably the easiest to find. Have you even tried to find them?
This is the cite from the ED forum, it took 30 seconds to find: "Bill Drenas in his article on the Tippit shooting introduces two incidents indicating that the time was not 1:00, but more towards 1:15. Louis Cortinas, an eighteen-year-old clerk who worked at the Top Ten Record Shop, said that Tippit entered the shop and tried to make a call, got no answer, and left in a hurry. Drenas suggests the reason why the dispatcher got no response to his 1:03 call to Tippit was because Tippit was inside the record shop. Cortinas said, “Maybe 10, no more than 10 minutes Tippit had left, when I heard he had been shot on the radio.” The first report of a policeman being shot in Oak Cliff was on radio station KLIF at 1:33 P.M. If Cortinas was correct, than the time of the shooting was 1:23. Obviously, he was inaccurate in his time estimate. This does not mean that his story was untrue. Tippit indeed entered the shop and tried to make a call but it was sometime between 12:30 and 12:54."
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It's always good to know facts. Got a cite on that one? NBC, unless I'm mistaken (which is possible) was also involved in radio at that time, so it's not necessarily apparent that it was a television announcement.Duke, the NBC news report you refer to was the first TELEVISION report not the first RADIO report. The first radio report of a policeman (no mention of Tippits name yet) being shot in Oak Cliff was on radio KLIF at 1.33.http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H25_CE_2275.pdf
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...a67db92e456971b
Thanks for these links, Denis, but it would help if you could tell us exactly where in these files we can find the first radio broadcast of the Tippit shooting
The cite's are there Ray, if you care to look for them. Personally, I would no longer bother. The whole point of the post was that the first public radio announcement of Tippit's slaying was at or around 1.33, therefore backing up Brewer's statement. As opposed to 1.49 (suggested by Duke I THINK) which would disprove Brewer's statement. Which radio station was first is not really relevant, whats importaint is the time. And if I may quote you: "I think it is entirely plausible that WFAA, at least, had the Tippit story by 1.30, if not before, and so I think that, whatever about the rest of his testimony, Brewer's story about listening to the radio is certainly believable." If you and others are now convinced the time was not 1.49 and that, at least, that part of Brewer's statement was accurate that's good enough for me. Denis.
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I do agree that if we consider Earlene's testimony reliable (I think most of it is), she did in fact hear a cop car honk in front of her house about that time, and the reasons why that police was there at that time make an excellent question/discussion. ... He [Tippit] seemed to have that extra uniform in his car, and that may have been (worn by) the second officer at that time. I agree that she was confused about the number on the car. As far as I know he was one of the closest, if not the closest to this location at that time, yes?
I don't agree, however, that she was "confused" about the number on the car. She testified that she looked at the number only to see if it was "170," the number on the car of the officer(s) she knew. Once she saw that it wasn't "170," she ignored it, dismissed it, made no attempt to see what it was when all she knew is what it wasn't.
I find it quite incredible that both yourself and Antti find Earlene Robert's testimony so "reliable" concerning the police car. If the following isn't the testimony of a totally confused and therefor completely unreliable witness then I really dont know what is! The following testimony shows no indication of any harassment nor pressure as suggested, just the opposite in fact.
Robert's closing statements where she admits to being so blind she cant even read her own deposition is particuly revealing. From a witness such as this I'm far from convinced there ever was a "honking" POLICE car. More likely is a CIVILIAN car "honking" whilst waiting at the Zangs Boulevard traffic lights. Nor am I convinced that the officers driving #170 regularly paid Robert's social calls. This sounds more like the wishful thinking of a sad, lonely old lady. In any case, the officers of #170 certainly didn't "visit" during the previous 7 months as that vehicle had been decommissioned since April.
Lets just take a look at this "reliable" testimony:
BALL. Did a police car pass the house there and honked?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When was that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He came in the house.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the house ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. When he came in the house and went to his room, you know how the sidewalk runs?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Right direct in front of that door-there was a police car stopped and honked. I had worked for some policemen and sometimes they come by and tell me something that maybe their wives would want me to know, and I thought it was them, and I just glanced out and saw the number, and I said, "Oh, that's not their car," for I knew their car.
Mr. BALL. You mean, it was not the car of the policemen you knew?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It wasn't the police car I knew, because their number was 170 and it wasn't 170 and I ignored it.
Mr. BALL. And who was in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know--I didn't pay any attention to it after I noticed it wasn't them-I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Where was it parked ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It was parked in front of the house.
Mr. BALL. At 1026 North Beckley?
Mrs. ROBERTS. And then they just eased on--the way it is-it was the third house off of Zangs and they just went on around the corner that way.
Mr. BALL. Went around what corner?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Went around the corner off of Beckley on Zangs.
Mr. BALL. Going which way--toward town or away from town?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Toward town.
Dr. GOLDBERG. Which way was the car facing?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It was facing north.
Dr. GOLDBERG. Towards Zangs?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Towards Zangs--for I was the third house right off of Zangs on Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Did this police car stop directly in front of your house?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--it stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnely would do when they stopped, and I went to the door and looked and saw it wasn't their number.
Mr. BALL. Where was Oswald when this happened?
Mrs. ROBERTS. In his room.
Mr. BALL. It was after he had come in his room?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Had that police car ever stopped there before ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know--I don't remember ever seeing it.
Mr. BALL. Have you ever seen it since?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No--I didn't pay that much attention--I just saw it wasn't the police car that I knew and had worked for so, I forgot about it. I seen it at the time, but I don't remember now what it was.
Mr. BALL. Did you report the number of the car to anyone?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I think I did---I'm not sure, because I--at that particular time I remembered it.
Mr. BALL. You remembered the number of the car ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I think it was--106, it seems to me like it was 106, but I do know what theirs was--it was 170 and it wasn't their car.
Mr. BALL. It was not 170?
Mrs. ROBERTS. The people I worked for was 170.
Mr. BALL. Did you report that number to anyone, did you report this incident to anyone?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, I told the FBI and the Secret Service both when they was out there.
Mr. BALL. And did you tell them the number of the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I'm not sure--I believe I did--I'm not sure. I think I did because there was so much happened then until my brains was in a whirl.
Mr. BALL. On the 29th of November, Special Agents Will Griffin and James Kennedy of the Federal Bureau of Investigation interviewed you and you told them that "after Oswald had entered his room about 1 p.m. on November 22, 1963, you looked out the front window and saw police car No. 207?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No. 107.
Mr. BALL. Is that the number?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--I remembered it. I don't know where I got that 106---207. Anyway, I knew it wasn't 170.
Mr. BALL. And you say that there were two uniformed policemen in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, and it was in a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all.
Mr. BALL. Were there two uniformed policemen in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL. And one of the officers sounded the born ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Just kind of a "tit-tit"--twice.
Mr. BALL. And then drove on to Beckley toward Zangs Boulevard, is that right?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes. I thought there was a number, but I couldn't remember it but I did know the number of their car--I could tell that. I want you to understand that I have been put through the third degree and it's hard to remember.
Mr. BALL. Are there any other questions?
Dr. GOLDBERG. No, that's all.
Mr. BALL. Now, Mrs. Roberts, this deposition will be written up and you can read it if you want to and you can sign it. or you can waive the signature.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, you know, I can't see too good how to read. I'm completely blind in my right eye.
Mr. BALL. Do you want to waive your signature? And then you won't have to come back down here.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, okay.
Mr. BALL. All right, you waive it then ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes. Do you want me to sign it now?
Mr. BALL. No; we couldn't, because this young lady has to write it up and it will be a couple of weeks before it will be ready.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, will you want me to come back or how?
Mr. BALL. Well, you can waive your signature and you won't have to come back to do that--do you want to do that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Okay, it will be all right.
Mr. BALL. All right. The Secret Service will take you home now.
Mrs. ROBERTS. All right.
Mr. BALL. Thank you for coming.
Mrs. ROBERTS. All right.
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I am a contracts manager for a small construction company. Married with a 18 year old son. In my spare time I study history. I currently belong to two internet history groups one dedicated to classical history the other Japanese history. I regularly post on both these sites.
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Original and present owner Mick Polk.
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Actual phone used by Tippit
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View from front window from behind counter
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I was always under the impression that the TOP TEN RECORD STORE was on Jefferson.
Am I wrong?
Jack
The Top Ten Record Shop is located at 338 West Jefferson Blvd.
It's approximately one and a half blocks west of the theatre on the opposite side of the street near the corner of West Jefferson and South Bishop Ave.
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How about adding the category:
THE MEMBER OTHER MEMBERS WOULD MOST LIKE TO LEAVE THE FORUM.
With a bit of luck Healy will read the result and go. lol
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From all that I've seen that you've posted, it seems that you think that Oswald was more than "a very guilty part of that conspiracy," but rather the only guilty part of the conspiracy since you haven't suggested any role for any of the others involved.
What did those other people do?!? Could we get "a straight answer" on that?
it.
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It's always good to know facts. Got a cite on that one? NBC, unless I'm mistaken (which is possible) was also involved in radio at that time, so it's not necessarily apparent that it was a television announcement.Duke, the NBC news report you refer to was the first TELEVISION report not the first RADIO report. The first radio report of a policeman (no mention of Tippits name yet) being shot in Oak Cliff was on radio KLIF at 1.33.http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H25_CE_2275.pdf
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...a67db92e456971b
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Hi Duke,
Do you believe Oswald played any part in the events of that day?
Thanks - Steve
The most interesting question on this thread yet Steve, I like the way you come straight to the point. But will "THE DUKE" give as straight a reply?
Mr. Pointing, if you had bothered to read Duke's posts on this very thread wherein he discussed his views/suspicions re Oswald's role you would not be making this kind of snide insinuation. Duke has long ago earned a reputation as a straight shooter. He is not a BELIEVER, like you, he is an INQUIRER, and true inquirers cannot state their BELIEFS until the inquiry is complete.
BTW, good job on finding the radio report on the Tippit murder. Can you post a link?
Ray, no "snide insinuation" was intended, a simple request for a straight answer, no more, no less. Just for the record I have nothing but respect for Duke's work and no less respect for him as a person. But that does not mean that I have to accept all he states without question. And I'm certain Duke wouldn't want nor expect me to. To be honest I find Duke's style of writing rather confusing at times, a fault of mine rather than his I'm sure, at times Duke an I dont seem to be too far off the same page an yet at other times we seem to be in total disagreement. Hence my request for a "straight answer" I would genuinely like to know where Duke is "coming from".
When I can find the link Ray I will indeed post it, that's a promise. One final thing Ray, may I ask why you always seem so very hostile? I am here for debate and if that debate becomes a little hot at times so be it, we're all grown men. But just because my opinion differs from yours that does not mean I am some kind of enemy. With respect. DENIS.
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Frankly these day's, I'm surprised anyone is responding to your nonsense. When Lone Nuts have to resort to CALLING ON JESUS FOR SUPPORT, ya know the Lone Nut non-film/photo alteration crowd are in deep do-do.... Carry on!
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This from a guy (Healy) who just posted one word and one word only on the "LEE OSWALD'S DEPARTURE FROM THE TSBD" thread, that one word was.... "AMEN" LOL What a hypocrite.
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Hi Duke,
Do you believe Oswald played any part in the events of that day?
Thanks - Steve
The most interesting question on this thread yet Steve, I like the way you come straight to the point. But will "THE DUKE" give as straight a reply?
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I'm going to take a book by NBC as fairly authoritative since they were pretty much in the thick of "media" at the time. Still are, in fact.
If "first mention" of Tippit's shooting indeed came at 1:49, that was three minutes-plus after the announcement over the police radio that "We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson," which was after Julia Postal called, which was in turn after Johnny Brewer went into the theater after Oswald, which again was after Brewer had seen Oswald and followed him to the theater. So in effect, the argument is that Brewer linked Oswald to an announcement that wouldn't be made for something like five minutes after he left his store.
In fact, since Brewer was inside the theater when Oswald was taken into custody at about 1:52, he never actually heard any announcement about Tippit having just been killed.
Duke, the NBC news report you refer to was the first TELEVISION report not the first RADIO report. The first radio report of a policeman (no mention of Tippits name yet) being shot in Oak Cliff was on radio KLIF at 1.33.
More info on the NBC report:
.... but the news of Tippit’s death does not appear in the police radio transcript until 1:32. The dispatcher was relaying an NBC News Radio report that Tippit was dead on arrival at the Methodist Hospital. This was not an official announcement. More time elapsed before someone from the hospital staff confirmed that Tippit was dead via a telephone call to the police department. The dispatcher did not pass along this announcement because at that time there was heavy radio traffic concerning the pursuit of a fugitive into the Texas Theater. Probably the news arrived at the sheriff’s office via telephone at 1:40.
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And before you bring it up Duke, I realize the top paragraph states 1.33 whilst the second states 1.32. Even with this discrepancy I think we can say with some certainty that the first announcement of Tippits slaying was emphatically NOT 1.49.
Gary Mack
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Gary Mack is undoubtedly the most knowledgeable researcher on this forum, arguable in the world. Because he only deals in facts and not wild theory and exposes poor research and outright lies he has naturally made many enemies. Wim, dont kid yourself, if Gary ever went head to head with you he would pull your James Files nonsense to pieces. Just hope he never takes you up on your offer.
P.S. Can you and Pam keep your mud slinging to yourselves, no one here is really interested.