Dawn Meredith

Some points on this:

1. The document produced in the interview is the wrong one about Shaw. The one in her book about the George DeM is the right one, which reveals many years later that Shaw was highly paid contract agent of the CIA. Therefore, the stuff the CIA wrote about him before, including to the HSCA, was at least a partial cover story.

2. Shaw did go Rome to help start up Permindex there. This was in an internal Time Magazine report that never saw the light of day. That is why he was on the Board of Directors and listed himself as such in his Who's Who entry.

3. Man, I would like to see those letters from Oswald to Thornley after they left New Orleans. Thornley also wrote some letters to a guy named Phil Boatwright, which Weisberg confronted him with. Harold said Kerry really got angry with him about that. But I think she is wrong about the chemical training meaning Kerry worked for the CIA.

4. I have never seen any evidence that RFK sent Sheridan to New Orleans to wreck Garrison. Everything I have seen says Sheridan was in cahoots with NBC and the CIA at the time. The Sarnoffs sanctioned what he did and the CIA secretly funded him money through a law firm representing their local outlet.

5. I look forward to her upcoming book on the whole Wallace fingerprint imbroglio. Should be good.

God, do I hate what Nigel Turner did to this case.

Her hatred of Bobby Kennedy drives this one. Of course Bobby never sent Sheridan to sabotage Garrison but she never misses a chance to repeat that.

Good you can review her book on Wallace. I don't intend to read it. Whatever good is in it is outweighed by her lies about my dear friend Nathan Darby.

What do his maths grades have to to with you guys deliberately misinterpreting what "re-ad" means, and the process necessary to find the total number of school days that school year?

I know I know - like everyone else at the Bates Motel, you're very busy...

whatever

Seems you've checked in at the Bates as well - tends to happen when you're stuck as to what to do next...

Don't like how I addressed your inaccuracies?. You're so wrapped up in dissing H&L you forget about the grade cards or to do a real timeline with the evidence to see what a joke the FBI left us...

So let's go Greg... Since I know you've not done your homework related to these documents and rely instead on the poor, wrong and terribly sourced arguments you offered years ago without update... this NEW VOLUME of yours will undoubtedly be full of these errors.

Gonna post another passage? Or need to figure out how you got it so wrong.

You mean to tell us that you, the man who knows everything about Oswald, cannot tell us when the BJHS year began or why the grade cards conflict with the permenant record?

And yet you write a book on Oswald anyway. This will be like showing Posner or Myers for what they were... 5% truth mixed into 95% speculative and inaccurate fluff.

Please tell me you continued on in that new volume to Easton, Arlington and beyond with the same attention to detail.

Your take on Tujague's should also be illuminating... but first... punch your way out of this paper bag.

I was kicked out of the Bates Motel (aka the deepfoo) because I was destroying your 2 Oswald myths.

What inaccuracies did you address?

All you did was made a fool of yourself again by claiming that the 5 days absence and the 12 days absence pertained to the same school year. They don't.

That is total bull and you know it. You were banned from DPF due to your nasty posts and many people emailing us about them, asking that we get rid of you or they would leave.. No one gets banned due to a particular view. especially if it is well argued. As proof your buddy Bart is posting at DPF and is not being nasty so there is no discussion of banning him. Likewise, no one gets banned without a lot of discussion among the founders, and finally, if warranted, a vote.

The fact that you are so obsessed with JA is very telling.

I've waited to post here because I want to be sincere and respectful. I had written early on, but not posted, : 'May he rest in peace. My condolences to family and friends.' and it seemed so trite. I can see why now. I realise I was shocked. Gary seemed like a constant. I can now see that he had friends among people I deeply respect.

To have someone who I'm personally ambivalent about (I don't know Gary, I got the usual emails and such) be spoken of so kindly by people I know better makes my initial thoughts ok. May he Rest in Peace and may his Family and Friends find Peace and Comfort in their times of Sorrow.

I knew- via snailmail only- the old Gary and got his periodical back in the 80's.

In his book, which he co authored with Mel Ayton, Davey denies any relationship between Oswald and American intelligence.

Which in my view, is simply a non starter today. Especially after the work of John Newman in Oswald and the CIA.

In her book, Davison failed to note the puzzling fact that the CIA did not open a 201 file on Oswald--until a year after he defected.

​When the HSCA interviewed some CIA people on this, they could not explain it, including Helms.

Does Davey?

Jimmy, I know this is going to shock you greatly, but I'm going to still choose to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was in no way connected to or employed by the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States. And I still favor my previous explanation when it comes to the delay in opening Oswald's 201 file at the CIA -- "bureaucratic red tape and foot-dragging."

Also, do you think that when a person is put on a "Watch List for mail interception" by the CIA, this action is somehow an indication that the person being placed on the Watch List works for the same agency? That seems like a rather odd leap of logic to me.

It would seem to me that the fact Oswald was on a CIA "Watch List" would be a pretty good sign right there that the man being "watched" is NOT a person who is already employed by the CIA. Because if Oswald is with the CIA, then why would there be any need to put him on some kind of a "Watch List"? Or maybe it was merely a "fake" Watch List to throw people off. Is that it, Jimmy?

And let me also add the following excerpts from Vince Bugliosi's book concerning the subject of Lee Oswald's 201 CIA file....

“The CIA (specifically, the Special Investigations Group [sIG] of the CIA's counter-intelligence unit) did not open a 201 file (a file kept on an individual, including CIA employees, that brings him into the agency's records system) on Oswald until December 9, 1960, after he had defected to the Soviet Union, and then only after the agency had received a request from the State Department for information on American defectors.

However, the agency, before December 9, was already receiving information on Oswald from other agencies of the government. It had four written communications in 1959 from the State Department pertaining to Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union, the first one dated October 31, 1959, from Moscow, and a fifth communication dated May 25, 1960.

The CIA told the HSCA that there were "no specified criteria for automatically opening a 201 file on an American." And when the HSCA reviewed the 201 files of twenty-nine other defectors, eight of whom had 201 files opened before their defection, they found that for only four of the remaining twenty-one the files were opened because of the defection. The files on the seventeen other defectors were opened from four months to several years after the defection.

The HSCA said that "at the very least, the committee's review indicated that during 1958—1963, the opening of a [201] file years after a defection was not uncommon. [Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union first came to the attention of American officials in Moscow on October 31, 1959. So his 201 file was opened more than thirteen months later.] In many cases, the event was triggered by some event, independent of the defection, that had drawn attention to the individual involved."

The HSCA went on to say that "the existence of a 201 file does not necessarily connote any actual relationship or contact with the CIA." Though not automatic, such a file is normally opened by the CIA when "a person is considered to be of potential intelligence or counterintelligence significance." Oswald's 201 file, the HSCA said, "contained no indication that he had ever had a relationship with the CIA." ”

[VB Footnote:]

“The reader should realize that many in the conspiracy community would give their right arm if they could prove that Oswald was a CIA agent. If they could do this, it would be the answer to their most wondrous dreams, the solution, at last, to the Kennedy assassination. This is because they are too blind when it comes to the assassination to realize that even if Oswald were a CIA agent, it would only be one step in their quest for the Holy Grail. They'd still have to prove that the reason why the CIA lied about Oswald's relationship with the agency was not because it didn't want the world to know that one of its agents murdered the president (as, on a lesser scale, a religious order would not want it to be known that one of its priests was a child molester), but because number one, the CIA decided to murder Kennedy, and number two, the agency got Oswald to murder Kennedy for it.” -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 1198-1199 of "Reclaiming History"

So Mr. V. P. Have you read Newman's book or not? (We all know VInce B is not a reliable source. )

--Tommy

PS I should have become a lawyer. I would have loved facing you in court.

Because you don't like what someone else posted and I copied here you'd like to face me in court. That's funny. I will have you know I do very well in court. So I'd relish going against you in court. Alas, have you even taken your LSAT? Get back to me when you're licensed in TX. Have a good one.

Dawn's a lawyer?

Wow!

I thought Dawn was an English teacher given her dressing down of someone else's poor grammar the other day.

A lawyer?

This could only ever happen in Texas!

Sorry to disappoint. It happened in MA. I practiced there for five years before moving to Austin.

--Tommy

PS I should have become a lawyer. I would have loved facing you in court.

Because you don't like what someone else posted and I copied here you'd like to face me in court. That's funny. I will have you know I do very well in court. So I'd relish going against you in court. Alas, have you even taken your LSAT? Get back to me when you're licensed in TX. Have a good one.

OK now let's attack the good George Bailey. (From his blog)

"When I first started researching the Oswald-as-double I considered it to be the farthest out I was willing to go in the annuals of the Kennedy assassination. The are wilder theories out there such as Oswald being an MK-ULTRA mind control assassin. (Hmm...would a lone nut gunman also apply here?) The idea of multiple assassins resembling each other running loose remains a troubling issue and adds a strange aura to the tragic event. It is one area that only a hand full of JKF researchers wish to examine as it is viewed as a far-out topic, one worthy of a Moulder and Sculley investigation in the the X-Files.

However, one surprising fact is the actual genesis of Lee H. Oswald as a doppelganger starts out in the highest level of government and in the upper echelon of Federal criminal investigation. Namely, J. Edgar Hoover, Director of the FBI. It was Hoover, in his 1960 memo to the Office of Security, Department of State, that basically sent a warning that there existed a “possibility” that the ex-marine defector to the Soviet Union was being impersonated and someone was using his birth certificate to do so. He doesn’t state his evidence for this nor add any additional details in the memo. In those days, Hoover’s word was etched in stone. Later, in 1961, a State Dept. official will send a memo to another, warning that the next time Lee Oswald is issued a passport, make sure he gets it personally; that way the right Oswald gets the right passport as it was suspected he was being impersonated. Again, no qualifiers for this. Apparently, it was something that was known and treated with great seriousness, at this level. The word at this point, is making the rounds.

By the June of 1962 Lee Oswald and family are back in the United States. When he returns back to Dallas as his ill-fated trip to Mexico City (known as Oswald’s Magical Mystery Tour) in the September of 1963 the CIA is recording all telephonic traffic in and out of the Russian and Cuban embassies. CIA station chief Winston Scott believed that Oswald being impersonated after examining the tapes and kept a back-up copy in his private safe. Hoover had his agents, seven of them, review the tapes and they determined the man speaking on the telephone calls is not Oswald. This man is speaking broken Russian to the Russians, and speaking excellent Spanish to the Cubans. A total reversal of Oswald’s known language skills. Shortly after the assassination, Hoover related this information to Lyndon Johnson. The new President in turn, used this for the final arm twisting of Earl Warren to get him to serve on the Commission.

So while one might consider the doppelganger or impersonator to be a nutty idea, it’s apparently not considered that at all by various authorities within the government. Far from being fringe subject matter, it is accepted as fact in these inner circles. Oswald is being impersonated but by whom is not known, at least by Hoover. Or maybe Hoover did know, just kept it to himself. Sometimes methods and practices have to be concealed so those being surveilled do not become aware of the operations directed against them. Never the less, it was important enough for Hoover to leave a paper trail on this issue warning other departments as did others in the bureaucracy. The President himself knew. Earl Warren knew and made sure it was not a topic that would be investigated later.

Lee Oswald now becomes a far more important figure that first told. After all, who wants to impersonate a nobody?

The Lone Senator And The Lone Gunman
The Senator from Georgia, Richard Russell was the odd man out on the Warren Commission. He has the distinction of being the member with the fewest amount of appearances at Commission meetings. Many people have taken him to task for this but the fact of matter was, he discovered early on that this was not going to be an outfit that was going to get to the bottom of the Kennedy assassination. He knew it was going to be “investigation theater” from there on after reading the initial, and wholly inadequate, FBI report and seeing how Earl Warren was going to conduct the whole affair. He was so disgusted with the proceedings he wrote a letter of resignation, dated February 24, 1964, but never forwarded it to President Johnson.

Senator Russell’s most important act being on the Commission was not what he did there, which was not much, but in leading his own personal inquiry into what happened. He enlisted the expertise of Colonel Philip Corso, an expert in military intelligence to research the issue. (Those of you familiar with a certain late night radio talk program that deals in the paranormal and especially UFOs will be familiar with the name of Philip Corso!) He uncovered two things; one, that there were two different birth certificates for Lee Harvey Oswald and they had both been used by two different people. Secondly, there were two different passports issued to a Lee Harvey Oswald and both had been used by two different people.

Colonel Corso’s final conclusion was there was a conspiracy, the plot leading to directly to Lyndon Johnson, allied with rogue elements of the CIA and the anti-Castro Cubans. Remember, this is 1964; it’s startling how this idea, with this limited amount of inquiry except by one man, had been fully realized at this early date. Unfortunately, there is only circumstantial evidence for many of these conclusions but many other researchers have since come to this idea of rouge government agents in a plot to kill Kennedy, especially the CIA with Kennedy vowing to scatter them to the winds. The Cubans could be counted on as well, still smarting over Kennedy not committing air support for the Bay of Pigs invasion. Never the less, Senator Russell agreed with Corso’s conclusion knowing he could never convince the other members of the Commission for this scenario. His hunch that things were fishy here with the official story and there was more to it, proved out. Years later, he would become one of the Commission’s biggest critics along with fellow Warren Commission member Hale Bogs.

The Final Phase
As we have seen, the idea of Lee Oswald having a double comes not from conspiracy theorists, or “armchair investigators” as Gerald Ford put it, but from government insiders at the FBI, CIA, Department of State, and so on. And not only Federal but State documents also confirm this. Such as a form from the Texas Employment Commission which documents a series of aptitude tests Lee Oswald completed that starts in April of 1962. As stated earlier, he and his wife and daughter did not return to the United States till June of 1962. In April, he is known to still be in Russia working at the radio factory in Minsk. A lot of documents are missing but every so often a gem like that appears to add new dimensions to the Kennedy assassination and further our knowledge on Oswald and whoever he was.

Follow on to S. Gall @938:

Why did the FBI immediately confiscate all the footage of the 9-11 Pentagon strike from nearby surveillance cameras?

Why did the FBI take control over the investigation of the crash in which Dorothy Hunt died? That wasn't SOP. Nor was FBI's control over the TWA 800 wreckage.

Why did an FBI official falsify so many forensic tests?

Why did the FBI illegally wiretap MLK?

Why did the FBI illegally target 1960s anti-war protestors?

My fingers grow tired typing. Surely someone has clear, clean, logical, correct answers to the questions I raise. And if so:

Please answer me this:

Why did FBI agents fear Hoover?

Was J.E. Hoover a fine, upstanding, honest man? I don't care, BTW, that he was gay. That was his business.

Did J.E. Hoover accept favors from the "mob"?

OK, you have answers re Hoover. So:

Is Herbert Philbrick the 1950s model FBI agent?

Thanks for your efforts here but these are those who think the FBI only does the job of protecting Americans, going after the bad guys. And in many instances this is the truth, but when it comes to things like the assassination, the murder of Dorothy Hunt, 9-11, etc etc the FBI is there to confuse, mislead, ignore important witnesses, intimidate others. I think this new evidence has reached an impasse here and on DPF. No one is going to change anyone's mind regardless of the logic utilized. , Now we have Parnell accusing John of lying and fabricating. I am not even going to bother reading this thread until this particular discussion is over. The horse has been long dead.

Dawn, I did contact Joan and she said that her book is absolutely still moving towards publication; I'm waiting on an estimated date from her before posting anything specific. I have not seen any of its content myself.

Thanks Larry. The person who told me the book was dead was obviously not reliable. I'd contact her myself but since I have posted stuff on DPF about Nathan and all the lies I am sure she would just scream at me. Joan does not cotton to criticism. I learned that in 05 when I argued with her about who (The CIA) sent Walter Sheridan to try to sabotage Garrison. (She insists it was RFK. ) She screamed at me over that and we did not talk for a long time after that. I do not hold grudges EVER but she may, so I will let the matter rest til the book comes out. I did however did just learn some GREAT news about Walt. For years he told me J would be "all over" his chron. Just spoke with someone who has the chron and it's true. Kudos to Walt on that. Now I will have to get it. On Kindle.

Tracy : "Fowler could have went to the FBI "

It's "could have gone".

If you are going to be a writer you need to learn proper grammar.

Dawn

I'm not trying to get your goat because we disagree on JA (nor am I going to get into it with anyone here over his work or the kind of person I know him to be- ETHICAL ). This is just a personal pet peeve of mine.

I did not mean to imply that Walt is not a reputable researcher, he is and has written several books on this case. He like J has a memory like no one I have ever known. Joan too, she can speak about CIA and related at length and not bore a soul. Her COPA talk on the 50th anniversary was masterful. I am just very disappointed on this latest work of hers. I was very involved with it for several months. I do not think she is libeling J and Nathan on purpose. I think she believes her sources, but they are simply wrong, and THEY are lying. Joan is merely repeating the lies. It's easy for people to make up stories when the actual people they are lying about are dead and gone. Sorry this is so cryptic, I am trying to avoid details on all of this til I see her actual material, not just a long speech she gave that left me beyond upset. I have been told that this book is now "dead" so time will tell.

Thanks, Mark, for the reference -

If i may ask, and with respect, - so this IS the same U.T. Rambler RBartholomew spoke of, owned by George Wing? Is that what I'm reading here? what's the connection between Mr Plumlee and the car, then?

fascinating.

someone asked what the registration of that plate # would return, and it's in the article that Wing bought the car from CB Smith, also connected to Ransom and Rostow and Johnson (LB), et al...

Glen: Jay Harrison was a former Dallas Reserve police officer in Dallas on 11/22/63. He would devote his life after that date to JFK assassination and related research, deep cover, you will not find him via google as only those who knew him knew about him. He and Tosh go back to the 50's in Dallas. Richard was working with Jay for several years and when Richard could no longer house the Rambler , J enlisted his old friend Tosh, as Tosh's daughter had land south of Austin. (See the post above from Tosh's daughter Lesley). Yes this is the same car that RB found, photographed and bought.

I was privileged to be one of J's best friends from the day we met (11/21/97) til he passed on 5/25/05. He left his work to Walt Brown. Unfortunately the only person who has ever had access to any of J's research materials was Joan Mellen. From what I have read of her work all I can say is that J is rolling over in his grave. (If J and Nathan Darby were alive both could sue her for libel. ) I dare say no more. I once considered her a good friend and was looking forward to a book that she promised me would show her audience what a wonderful -but largely unknown- researcher J was.

If the book is ever published several people will have much to say refuting many of her allegations. I will await the book to see what her sources are for some of her allegations.

Dawn

CTKA

John Armstrong and Black Op Radio's Len Osanic talked for more than three hours yesterday. David Josephs and I listened in on phone lines and occasionally commented and asked questions. John talked about the evidence for the existence of two children sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald dating back to the early 1950s. His talk followed the development of the two boys through American-born Lee Oswald's service in the Marine Corps and Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald's more irregular Marine service.

Len said it could take several months to put together the final production, and he was still debating whether to do it in audio format or as a video production featuring reproductions of documents. A second interview between the two researchers is planned for the relatively near future.

John has been interviewed by Len before. From experience, I can say that Len's website must have a sizable audience, because whenever Len puts up a link to harveyandlee.net, we get thousands of new visitors directly from his referral. In terms of their abilities to drive traffic to a site, Black Op Radio and Jim Di's CTKA.net appear to be in a league of their own. Black Op Radio's home page is here:

blackopradio.com

Since Len was kind enough to go to John's place, I hope he does it as a video. Either way I look forward to it. Both sites are great, and hard to keep up with. (So much information).

Garrison's only achievement was to destroy the career of Dean Andrews, whose only crime

was being willing to go to Dallas to defend Lee Oswald.

His "only achievement"???? His book "On the Trail Of the Assassins which became the basis for Stone's film caused millions to become aware of the conspiracy and lead to the Assassination Records Review Board releasing a large amount of previously hidden records. That was quite an achievement for the critical community and general public. But conversing with a rabid Garrison hater is akin to trying to reason with a lone nutter. Waste of time. All you can do is hurl insults.

I don't think Oswald was an FBI informant, but it's possible, depending on how broadly one defines informant.

I agree with Joseph McBride that Tippit was hunting for Oswald before he was shot.

I have always thought it was Tippit's job to kill LHO so that there would be no arrest and no opportunity to have the Patsy declare himself as such and have him ask for and be denied counsel, only to be killed on national tv. THAT was the turning point for many. When Tippit was unsuccessful, he was killed and the wallet planted linking the Patsy to that murder. So Tippit became very useful after all. This was just my speculation as until recently there was very little research into Tippit's murder.

But of course I 'm just another "Garrison sucker". (And proud of it).

Dawn

Garrison formally accused Lee Oswald of plotting the murder of JFK,

and the jury of 12 New Orleans citizens took less than an hour

to find that Lee was innocent of Garrison's silly charge.

If you want to be a sucker, Dawn, go ahead and be my guest.

I have never seen you post a useful comment in the history of the Education Forum

So you just avoid my point by attacking me. Typical. I am NOT an Oswald accuser. Was not since day one. Have a good life. Attacks from the likes of you are to be expected. (Mili Cranor has some choice words, but that's another story).

"Raymond can you not read? Parker is NOT a LHO accuser. And the fact that Marina did not reply to you is hardly "proof" of anything. For a lawyer your reasoning here is quite lacking. Maybe she simply is not interested in replying to you.

But of course I 'm just another "Garrison sucker". (And proud of it)."

It doesn't prove a conspiracy, since there is the minute possibility of a different "lone nut" on the job. And if there was a conspiracy, it does not prove that LHO was not involved in it.

As my readers know, I believe Lee Oswald was a completely innocent man, who was framed for the Tippit murder and for the JFK

murder..

greg parker is an Oswald accuser who won't let go even when he knows that Lee is innocent!

And Carroll shoots as straight as a dog's hind leg. Let's put it this way, if Carroll had been the sniper, he wouldn't have needed no goddamn magic bullet.

What Carroll deliberately omitted from his quote because he is an amatuer putz is this: For the record - I have no doubt that there was a conspiracy and that Oswald's sole "connection" to it was as designated patsy. That case is coming.

Mister Parker is a GARRISON GROUPIE, conscious or unconscious I don't know which.

Lee Oswald told reporters: "They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union,

I'm just a Patsy."

The word "Patsy" has always meant nothing more than an innocent man falsely accused,

and you can find it frequently used in the popular novels of Michael Connelly, e.g. Trunk Music.

But Garrison gave it a special meaning, implying that Lee Oswald was an idiot who conspired

in his own undoing, and Garrison followers like Greg Parker have been attributing that special meaning to the word "Patsy" ever since.

Its a bummer when people don't understand the English language!

Lee Oswald said that he knew nothing about the assassination or the murder of J.D. Tippit

and his accusers, including Greg Parker and David Von Pein, are barking up the wrong tree

You're a complete nut case aren't you, boy-o?

Raymond can you not read? Parker is NOT a LHO accuser. And the fact that Marina did not reply to you is hardly "proof" of anything. For a lawyer your reasoning here is quite lacking. Maybe she simply is not interested in replying to you.

But of course I 'm just another "Garrison sucker". (And proud of it).

Dawn

DAWN

Bartholomew did some great work http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_4.html (I quote it in my Dulles did it thread)

The UT article is also great.

I should have put in my Dulles thread that Rambler owner Wing taught a Dulles relative.,gaal

Steven, I'm very very impressed with both Oglesby and Bartholomew's extensive energy and research and writing. I only just happened across both of them, have found a second copy of Yankee/Cowboy and am KEEPING it, and at this point only know of the UTRambler story by Richard. I'm working my way slowly though it, and know that i'm going to want to find more, so thanks for that link. He seems to be very trustworthy in that he puts so much work, obviously, into his, um, work.

So many people in this thing just shoot from the hip, conjecture becomes "everybody knows" becomes fact (right, D.?). It's very clear when someone really knows what they're doing, knows their subject and has done some homework.

It's good to be able to read people like these two, not feeling obligated to buy into their school hook-line-and -sinker like you feel sometimes when you're reading someone's agenda - that they're trying to sell you a car. Knowing the research is trustworth gives one the freedom to form his or her own opinion on the research and not the voice, or the conjecture.

I guess. right?

thanks

If I ever take/find the time to read RB"s Rambler article a third time I want to map out all the connections. In fact he may have told me some years back that someone actually did that. With so many names it is quite a cumbersome manuscript. But tons of terrific research. I just love the fact of how he first found the damn car to begin with. Was it just one more red herring? Certainly a most interesting one.

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

not sure how the word I posted "xxxx" became xxxx

Ok will try this again will change the word to "untruthful"

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

not sure how the word I posted "xxxx" became xxxx

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

I await someone's "explanation" of this evidence. Very damning. But I am sure it will be twisted to show that Ms. Kitrell was mistaken, or lying. That she actually reviewed the WC volumes is further proof that she knew she had interviewed two different people and was trying to reconcile this fact in some manner.

Dawn

Dawn- CALEB Oglesby posted these videos of his father:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohIEs9CZjtc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uBNhtZIaZE

Thanks Vince. Have seen both of these many times. But not in awhile. What a trip down memory lane. I love the family shots. All three of Carl's kids inherited different gifts from him. Aron, his passion for justice, and a gift for writing, Shay has always and continues to act and sing, Caleb is an artist in many senses. I am also still close to his second wife Ann, who bought the huge white home in Cambridge, pictured here. What great times we enjoyed there. In his later years Carl re-connected with a lovely lady named Barbara from his anti war days and was with him til the end. RIP friend, see you on the other side.

September 14, 2011

Man on Fire

Remembering Carl Oglesby

by MIKE DAVIS

www.counterpunch.org

In my lifetime I’ve heard two speakers whose unadorned eloquence and moral clarity pulled my heart right out of my chest.

One was Bernadette Devlin (nee McAlliskey), speaking from the roof of the Busy Bee Market in Andersonstown in Belfast the apocalyptic day that Bobby Sands died.

The other was Carl Oglesby, president of SDS in 1965. He was ten years older than most of us, had just resigned from Bendix corporation where he had worked as a technical writer, and wore a beard because his face was cratered from a poor-white childhood. His father was a rubber worker in Akron and his people came from the mountains.

I’m not capable of accurately describing the kindness, intensity and melancholy that were alloyed in Carl’s character, or the profound role he played in deepening our commitment to the anti-war movement. He literally moved the hearts of thousands of people.

He was also for many young SDSers – like myself and the wonderful Ross Altman (original UCLA SDSer and Carl’s close friend, whom I salute) – both a beloved mentor but also leader of the wild bunch. At a crucial moment in the tragic history of this desert country, he precisely and unwaveringly defined our duty. He was a man on fire.

To those who knew him, I send my deepest love and solidarity – as I do to those yet to discover this great, tormented and most-old-fashionedly American radical.

Mike Davis is currently a Distinguished Professor in the Department of Creative Writing at the University of California, Riverside.

Are these Doug's words or Mike Davis'? just curious.

How eloquent the words themselves about such an eloquent writer - and so much more, obviously.

They are Mike Davis' words about Carl. Doug was kind enough to post the article. Also the pic of Carl and Hillary when she visited him in 94. Thanks Doug.

Glen: You asked me- in your email- to tell you more about my long friendship with Carl. I will post a bit of how it began here. In 1973 I was having a conversation with my next door neighbor and friend David Skinner about our political views. Of course Watergate was THE big issue at the time. When I expressed my opinion to David that Watergate was a set up, that McCord was trying to get caught, and that E. Howard Hunt's wife was murdered, David responded by saying I "must be reading Carl Oglesby". I had no clue who Carl was and was not reading his work. A few weeks later David informed me that Carl would be speaking at Boston U and would I be interested in joining him to hear the talk. I agreed that it sounded like fun. Carl was not speaking about Watergate or JFK, but his topic was "the state of being lonely". So he spoke of how he felt the day SDS spit into two factions and his friends embracing violence. This was something Carl would not ever condone. After the talk we struck up a conversation and he ended up giving me a ride to class. We discovered that our thinking was quite similar on the events of the day as well as the assassination of JFK. He told me that he was part of a group called "The Assassination Information Bureau" and that they gave talks at colleges around the nation. (I would later become the "token" female member of AIB and dated another member- Harvey Yazijian- for two years. Harv and I are still great pals. ) Thus begun a friendship that would encompass not just intellectual interests, but the sharing of music, our families, our commitment to justice for JFK and social justice in general. Carl was a mentor, a father figure, a brother, and so much more. I got to "be there" for the writing of Yankee/ Cowboy, seeing articles and letters spread all over his living room floor, hearing for the first time about Col F. Prouty, with whom Carl was corresponding. That was huge for me, to discover that someone as high up as a former US Col. not only knew the truth but was sharing it with a researcher. It gave me hope. The AIB continued their work and moved their operation to DC during the HSCA. By this time I had begun law school and could only learn about the hearings via phone and the AIB newsletter. After the hearings ended AIB disbanded and the other guys- Bob Katz, Harv, David Williams, and Jim Kostman, moved on to other pursuits. Carl continued to write about and research the assassination. And we remained in very close touch until his untimely passing.

I have always been sad that there was not a second printing of Yankee/Cowboy and that it is so difficult to obtain. I thank John Simkin for putting the first five (?) chapters on line here and recall that someone else has also scanned it online. Carl wanted this work to be a public as possible, and free.

Carl was a deeply complex man who could not be put into a box. Liberal on many issues, libertarian on others, radical in his anti war and anti fascist views, as well as a man of God. He never sold out, for anything or anyone.