Frank Agbat

John, Your method would work to produce a more "true" sync. It is, in reality, a close cousin of the telecine process (minus any interleaving). One would only need to run the math and find what amounts to a common denominator. There are several technical issues to overcome -- especially if the resulting "common" framerate is very high (say, for example, 60+ fps). Some computers might not be able to flip frames at sufficient speed to produce the effect. GIF format is problematic as well, as it was never intended to produce truly accurate frame rates. An AVI container might be a better choice, ultimately.

John, To correct numbering schemes, simply add one (1) to my previous number. The frame I missed was the very first one. Thus, "old" MS-1 is really MS-2.

Possible Nix-Muchmore sync point to consider. In Nix frames 44 to 45, one of the motorcycle cops make a quick head-turn to his right. I noted this in a previous example posted to this thread. I've been investigating the possible sync of this event to the Muchmore film. I have found it exceedingly difficult to find a solid sync point between Muchmore and Zapruder (although I'm not done looking). Instead, I though of investigating sync between Muchmore and Nix. This, too, has proven difficult. I think, however, I may have isolated an event that may qualify. Please consider the following frame pair. I'm comparing the head-turn of the motorcycle cop in N44->N45 with M62->63 (the correctly numbered 62 and 63). Thoughts?

John, I have worked out one of the problems to my own satisfaction... (and, thankfully, it was completely my fault!) I used the Groden/NFV DVD for the source frames for the Muchmore work I've done so far. On his DVD, he shows the film several times. Most of the other films on this DVD have at least one full-speed, unstopped run-through. This is not the case with the Muchmore film. In the first playing, he pauses the film at the damaged section and then allows it to continue on. He also plays a "slowed down" version of the shooting sequence. I used this version for extracting frames. Unfortunately, this introduced a one frame error -- right at the beginning as I postulated. On the slowed-down version, he starts with what is really sequence frame #2. I mistakenly labeled this as frame #1. I will use Irfanview to rename appropriately, and re-do the timing table with the correct quantity of frames and fps. I'll correct the numbering on Photobucket so that we all have the correct numbering. Additionally, when he shows the B&W version, it starts at what is really frame #3. The B&W version also ends early -- at frame #61. I've ordered the DVD of "Death in Dealy Plaza" from the Discovery channel. According to Gary Mack, this DVD contains the Muchmore film from a 16mm copy made prior to the damage occurring. The copy had faded badly, so some work was done to attempt to correct for this. The frame-rate is apparently all out of whack, too, but I'll reduce it to progressive and hopefully have an alternate source for this analysis.

John, With all due respect, what are we seeing in frames 41 & 42 (by my frame numbering), if it isn't the headshot?

Robin, Thank you very much. I will now re-do the table to show 18.5fps and see what that does. Another interesting side-effect is that the NFV/Groden DVD contains 65 (not 66) Muchmore frames. It seems commonplace to anchor the headshot at frame 42, however it seems to occur in the 41st frame in the copy from the DVD. This tells me that there is one frame missing from my set of frames. The color and B&W versions are in perfect sync (although the B&W version starts on what I would call "frame 2") --this leads me to believe that either the first frame is missing from the DVD or I erred in the extraction process. I will double-check later on today. Supposedly the MM film was to be restored in 2002 and available for media uses in 2003. Has anyone seen the restored version? Is it available and complete on the Discovery Channel "Death in Dealy Plaza" DVD? We could really use a copy of the restored film for this research.

I think if you click on the "Block" link, it will add that user to your blocked list, thus preventing them from sending you PMs.

Ron, I've noticed that problem too. I originally thought that it was intended behavior -- probably a security feature -- and that my ID was timing out. However, it seems to be somewhat sporadic; "remembering me" for days or forgetting me within minutes. Jack, Have you considered getting a free account at Photobucket.com? You could post images there (free accounts are limited to 1GB of photo space and 10GB of bandwidth usage per month) and link to them using the "insert image" option (or the " I get: http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/frankagbat/moorman.jpg' alt='moorman.jpg'> I know it isn't as easy as directly posting to the forum, but it would get you back to being able to post images. (Actually, any service that allows direct linking will work. I merely suggested photobucket from experience.)

Frank, Speaking of 3D, I was wondering if there might be a way to three-dimensionalize the Zfilm. This may be an extremely simplistic approach but I don't believe anyone has ever done it before and there may be some light shed on the movements. Does anyone know of a simple software that can create a 3D effect? Not that I want to be seen looking at my computer monitor while wearing 3D glasses... Mark, The most common "3D" effect is an Anaglyph. This is the method that uses the good ol' Red/Blue (or Red/Cyan) glasses. Two images are filmed or photographed simultaneously with the lenses about as far apart as one's eyes. The images are filtered (different colors for left and right eye, essentially) and then combined into one image. The downside is a loss of some color, and typically brightness issues. The result typically looks like: There is a trick that can simulate the Anaglyph effect if the source is interlaced (such as an NTSC video camera). It involves creating the image pairs using the even and odd fields, applying the appropriate color mask, and the recombining the images together. The Z-source isn't originally interlaced, but the resulting DVDs and tapes are. I've made a version of the z-film using this method, but don't have any 3d glasses around to try it with... I have a few other ideas to try if this method doesn't work. Of course, the original source was not filmed with 2 lenses, etc, so anything we do will produce a 3d effect, but the accuracy might be somewhat less than one would achieve from a true anaglyph source. Nevertheless, should be fun to try! Now I just have to find some glasses. They are, of course, the kind of stupid things that I hang on to for years under the "I might use these some day" category, only to toss later during a cleaning spree... (This place has a "free pair" offer, but I imagine the arrival time would be quite slow: http://www.rainbowsymphony.com/free-3d-glasses.html

Chris (or Bill), What is the source for the posted Muchmore sequence? It appears to be a superior copy to the one on the NFV DVD.

John, According to my table, N49 and Z339 are *very* close to one another: Nix precedes Zapruder by 0.0082705656 seconds. 8.27 milliseconds would be fairly hard to distinguish from "happening at the same time". This brings back another headshot conundrum, though. Again, the first MM frame that shows splatter, at least to my eye, is M41. If that "matches" Z313 or even Z314, then the camera was shut off by the time Z339 arrives... That is, if the camera truly operates at 18fps, which is admittedly an assumption. I need to see what the numbers look like with different frame rates (notably, 16fps). Most interesting...

I'm still digesting this, too, Ashton. I do believe that understanding the fragment path is important to the overall understanding of the events. The problem is that we are dealing with three dimensions and a very short amount of time. Complicating matters is that our best view (the Z-film) is a 2-dimensional version of 3D events. The other 2D views available lack the detail of the Z-film. Further complication comes in the form of a moving limo...

Frame 42, from the Groden DVD's Black & White copy of the Muchmore film.

Ashton, I agree that the word "report" might be a more accurate term. Without associated testimony, we're not certain to what the police are reacting. I don't like to be overly suspicious, but unless they gave a statement within a few minutes of the event, it is possible that their testimony may be less spontaneous and more rehearsed. One of the reasons I found this interesting, however, is that they *do* look away from the limo and that two of them look, nearly simultaneously, in what appears to be nearly the exact same direction. To my eye, it looks as if they were preparing to take action.

Hi Robin, Here is the original frame 42 as it appears on the DVD: And the aligned version (the top and bottom halves were separately registered against the preceding frame): And the version that appears in the animation: Like I said -- I'm not an artist, so the retouch to get rid of the white area is admittedly amateurish. I also noted that there appears to be some warping in the lower half of the image, possibly due to heat, etc. The main purpose was to remove the white so that the eye isn't drawn away from the limo.

John, I think there may be a parallax issue to consider, based on the location of the two cameras. To my eye, in MS-16, the young man's right hand is extended outward. In MS-17, it moves closer to his body (perhaps he is clapping -- uncertain). In MS-18 it has vanished from Muchmore's viewpoint. It remains hidden in MS-19. In Z-287, his hand is well outside his body, and in Z-288 it is *still* outside his body area, although it has moved closer. Unfortunately Z289 and Z290 are both blurry AND under the sprocket. However, by 290, even with the blur, it is obvious that his hand it no longer extended. Because of angles, I think his hand will disappear from Muchmore's view *before* it will be in front of his body from Zapruder's view. This is why I felt that 289 was a better candidate than 290. However, I think 287 is too early for the match point. I could very easily be wrong about this, though... Another potential match point that I looked at, but was unable to resolve to my satisfaction is the wind-gust that puff's the right-side of Jean Hill's bright red coat. However, this area seems to be obscured by one of the motorcycle cops...

The following table is proposed, but I lack the certainty of it that I had for the Nix frame alignment, as I cannot find a definitive frame-rate for the camera. Lacking this, I have it currently operating at 18.0 frames per second, as that is the published spec for the model of camera used (Keystone K7 s/n 20648). This table assumes that MS17 is most closely aligned with Z289, which is necessary to make the head shot work. Lacking any solid alignment point, I set MS-41 = Z313. The numbers are then back-reconciled to be expressed in terms of the Z325 zero-time. John Dolva postulated MS17 = Z287 based on the child's hand position. The problem with this alignment and an 18fps camera is one of simple math. If these frames are in perfect alignment, this creates the situation where MS39 falls closest to Z313. Over 26 frames (1.421 seconds), there could be nearly 1/2 frame worth of drift due to differences in frame rate (assuming 18.0 for Muchmore) -- less if the cameras have more similar frame rates. So the most that could possible happen is Z313 aligning to MS40... However, there is no evidence of head injury or ejecta/splatter in MS39 or 40. The result of this theory is the following sequence of events: MS-40, Z312, N22, -- MS-41, Z313, N23, -- MS-42, Z314, N24 MS-Frame Time (Z-325 reference) 01 -2.8888888889 (closer, timewise, to Z272 than to Z273) 02 -2.8333333333 03 -2.7777777778 04 -2.7222222222 05 -2.6666666667 06 -2.6111111111 07 -2.5555555556 08 -2.5000000000 09 -2.4444444444 10 -2.3888888889 11 -2.3333333333 12 -2.2777777778 13 -2.2222222222 14 -2.1666666667 15 -2.1111111111 16 -2.0555555556 17 -2.0000000000 (close to Z-289, which is at -1.9672131148) 18 -1.9444444444 19 -1.8888888889 20 -1.8333333333 21 -1.7777777778 22 -1.7222222222 23 -1.6666666667 24 -1.6111111111 25 -1.5555555556 26 -1.5000000000 27 -1.4444444444 28 -1.3888888889 29 -1.3333333333 30 -1.2777777778 31 -1.2222222222 32 -1.1666666667 33 -1.1111111111 34 -1.0555555556 35 -1.0000000000 36 -0.9444444444 37 -0.8888888889 38 -0.8333333333 39 -0.7777777778 40 -0.7222222222 41 -0.6666666667 (Head shot) 42 -0.6111111111 (Splice due to break) 43 -0.5555555556 44 -0.5000000000 45 -0.4444444444 46 -0.3888888889 47 -0.3333333333 48 -0.2777777778 49 -0.2222222222 50 -0.1666666667 51 -0.1111111111 52 -0.0555555556 53 0.0000000000 (NS-35 / Z325 - our reference) 54 0.0555555556 55 0.1111111111 56 0.1666666667 57 0.2222222222 58 0.2777777778 59 0.3333333333 60 0.3888888889 61 0.4444444444 62 0.5000000000 63 0.5555555556 64 0.6111111111 65 0.6666666667

I found myself with the rarity that is known as "free time" today... The Muchmore film (at least the version on the Groden/NFV DVD) has a break in frame #42 (where 1 = camera restart). The film has been repaired, via a splice, and comparison to an intact (but poor quality) B&W version of the film, no frames have been lost. The result is that the color film has a large gap in the center of one frame (MS-42). Other frames have damage (bulb heat, most likely). The good news is that the limo area is not included in the damage or in the splice. Here is the damaged frame: I got the crazy notion that most of this image is actually intact, and that the splice introduces an inordinate amount of white gap. I split the damaged frame into two images, and aligned the top and bottom halves against fixed landmarks. The result of that is: The following mini animation is very much a work in progress and is far from final. However, it shows a stabilized sequence of Muchmore frames. In this sequence, I started with the "de-spliced" frame 42 and had a little fun filling in the gap area. It isn't perfect (I'm pretty good with digital image processing, etc, but am not much of an artist!), but it does allow viewing the limo without the splice causing the frames to jump. The frames have also been through my favorite deconvolution filter...

I've been observing various aspects of the Nix film. For this example, I have stabilized a series of frames. The source of these frames is the NSV/Groden DVD, 1st-generation copy of the Nix film. *NOTE* - I *have* adjusted the saturation and luminance values in these frames to make the background more visible. The frames have also been run through a deconvolution filter using a Gaussian blur model. (This filter is similar, but vastly superior, to an "unsharp mask" or sharpen algorithm. It is useful to correct small focus problems without the nasty artifacts and edges that normal sharpen filters create. The downside is that this type of filter is painfully slow) Please consider the following sequence, and note especially the motorcycle cops: Source frames NS23 - NS70 ...and a close-up of the sequence: Source frames NS23 - NS66 ...two of them brake HARD shortly after the headshot and look directly to their right. They react almost simultaneously, presumably in reaction to a shot. For those keeping track of time, their reaction starts about 25 frames after NS22 (~1.3 seconds).

Zapruder's camera has been examined, test, etc, etc, nearly endlessly. I think it is safe to say that it operated at 18.3 frames per second. The Nix camera operated at 18.3. I'm currently looking into the Muchmore camera, but the rated "normal" rate on it was 18fps. The Bronson camera operated at 12fps.

Very, very interesting. On the surface, the placement of the ejecta model seems consistent with what is observed in Zapruder, Muchmore, and Nix. With the descending angle in addition to the left-to-right entry near the crown, it could certainly explain the "skull flap" in the z-film -- especially if the bullet ran shallow. Nice work!

It seems to me, at least on superficial review, that we're rapidly running out of non-building locations for a shooter. If memory serves me correctly, though, the "Plumlee Shooter" location would have been closer to the railroad bridge and have more elevation.

The Muchmore film has a splice/break right around the location of the headshot (naturally...). Mr. Groden's DVD has a Black and White version that was made before the original(?) film was broken. This version, although very poor quality, allows us to establish whether any Muchmore frames were lost as a result of the break/splice. On the DVD, the B&W version starts one frame later than the Color version. However, in both cases, the films run in sequence with one another. In other words, the splice appears to be repair due to a break, rather than deletion of frames. For the purposes of frame numbering, I am calling the splice frame "MS-42" (where MS-1 is the first frame in the "shooting sequence" portion of the Muchmore film). The color version of the NFV/Groden DVD runs from MS-1 to MS-65. Lacking any more precise information in the interim I'm going to work under the assumption that the camera operates at 18.0 fps, and will adjust accordingly if better information becomes available.

Does anyone have any information on the Muchmore and Bronson cameras? My French is a little rusty, but I read the copweb French-language site Glossary, and I believe that the Muchmore camera was a Keystone K7 8mm camera. I was not able to discover its published frame rate (although most cameras of the era had set "normal" to around 18fps), nor if it was ever tested. One site listed the Bronson camera as operating at 12 frames per second. Is this correct? I guess I could ask the same questions about Dorman's and Bell's cameras as well, along with Towner...

Please don't misinterpret my desire to keep the thread on track as an indictment of the other topics and potential discoveries this thread may yield. I'm extremely eager to research these other topics, too. And now, I've been reminded of needing to look at Bronson as well...