Evan Burton

Wasn't there something about the retaining wall being damaged? I watched a NatGeo (or Discovery or History Channel) programme about the rebuilding - or at least clearance - of the WTC site. They mentioned having to repair part of the retaining walls, but I don't have much detail on it.

I'm closing the thread until I can get guidance on whether it should remain open or not.

I would ask all member to refrain from further posting on this topic until further notice.

This is not censorship or it's ilk; it's a pause whilst we sort this out. Thank you.

Boy, some big truth there.

If you drive around Australia you'll see dead wombats by the side of the road. Seeing them gives you an appreciation of what would happen if you hit them at night. Normally, they are BIG!

I still get a little upset when I see a wombat or a roo at the side of the road; I don't like to see any wildlife killed unless absolutely necessary and so wonder if an under-road tunnel might have saved some of these critters.

Ah John: Acca-dacca will always be the kings, whether you consider them rock or heavy metal. I've been banging my head for years (I'm quite the spectacle on the Wardroom dance floor) and love both AC/DC and Deep Purple. I think that really they are both 'metal' and both rock.

Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no?

Welcome Chris!

Read all about it: man gets on bus

In a satirical jibe at stringent censorship imposed by Fiji's military Government, the Daily Post newspaper has been filling the space with some no news.

Headlines in Wednesday's edition included "Man gets on bus" over an item reading: "In what is believed to be the first reported incident of its kind, a man got on a bus yesterday. 'It was easy,' he said. 'I just lifted one leg up and then the other and I was on.' "

Another headed "Breakfast as usual" began: "It was breakfast as usual for the staff of this newspaper. 'I had leftover roti from last night,' senior reporter Manueli told his colleague yesterday morning."

A third story began, "Paint has apparently dried on his old couch, Max reports. Given the job of painting the couch, Max was excited at the prospect of the paint drying. But when asked how it dried, he was nonplussed.

" 'It just went on wet, but after about four hours, it started to dry. That was when I realised, paint dries,' the young scholar observed."

Fiji's military ruler Frank Bainimarama has posted censors in the offices of newspapers and radio and television stations, ordered foreign journalists out of the country and shut down the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's radio transmitters.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/read-all-about...90416-a85i.html

You gotta love 'em!

AERODYNAMIC CONTRAIL EFFECTS WATCHED

German researchers say aerodynamic condensation trails form by airflow over an aircraft's wing at high altitude need to be factored into climate models being developed to determine the effect of air traffic on global warming.

In certain conditions, says the German aerospace center (DLR), the pressure drop over the wing forms a stream of extremely small ice particles, which grow larger the farther they are from the aircraft, reflecting different wavelengths of light and creating an iridescent trail. While conventional engine contrails generally form in temperature zones and over the poles when the air is colder than 40C (F?), DLR says aerodynamic contrails only form when the air is considerably warmer and there is sufficient water vapour. This makes them common in the subtropics and topic.

With high traffic growth rates forecast for south Asia, DLR says aerodynamic contrails need to be factored into modeling to determine the role of aviation in climate change.

Aviation Week & Space Technology, 6 April 2009, page 16

Fijian Military takes over Reserve Bank

The governor of Fiji's central bank has been dismissed and the military has taken over the building, a senior bank official says.

In the latest upheaval to hit the island nation, Reserve Bank of Fiji governor Savenaca Narube was told to vacate his office on Tuesday because his appointment was constitutional and Fiji no longer had a constitution, the official said on condition of anonymity.

President Josefa Iloilo scrapped the constitution on Friday to bypass an Appeal Court ruling that prime minister Frank Bainimarama had been in power illegally since the 2006 coup he led.

He also sacked all judges and judiciary officials before reappointing military chief Bainimarama and his cabinet for five more years.

There was no official confirmation of Narube's dismissal, but a statement from the central bank, that exchange controls had been tightened, was issued in the name of deputy governor Sada Reddy.

More

Thank you!

John / Andy,

The Forum PM system is currently unavailable. The message we are receiving is that it is awaiting upgrade.

Could you advise?

Thanks!

I note that Peter didn't have any angst about publishing images of myself, showing my rank, ship I was assigned to duties I was carrying out, etc.

Well, the military takeover of Fiji is complete. The constitution has been dissolved, and judges removed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/12/2541056.htm

Now the foreign journalists who report what is happening are deported:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/13/2541748.htm

Where is the outraged indignation from members of this forum who continually complain about the US, the UK, etc?

Why are groups - who claim themselves to be shining lights into these dark activities - so silent about this that they have even failed to report it?

Commodore Bainimarama has repeatedly failed to restore civil rule, repeatedly failed to conduct open and fair elections. Then came the appointment of a puppet President who removed the judges, got rid of the constitution, then re-appointed Frank Bainimarama as PM. Now all free and open reporting is being removed.... and there is nary a raised eyebrow.

Shame.

Thanks Daniel,

Yes, it's being done by IP tracking. They own the site and therefore know which IPs are viewing it. They look up the IP, and can easily tell which is me as I have never hidden where I live or what I do.

I agree - it's deliciously ironic that the people who complain that the government is spying on them are the ones who are guilty of spying.

Of course, if I want to hide my IP then it would be very easy to use some type of proxy, like Hotspot Shield. So any of the IPs there could be me - or it could be you - or it might be someone from my army of evil minions. All part of my plan for world domination, dontcha know.

Peter,

Quite seriously: are you insane?

- I am not attempting to have you removed; that's a fantasy on your part. I'm asking you not to make false accusations against me, not to slur my character. In fact, there WAS a call to have your membership canceled. It was NOT initiated by me, and I voted AGAINST your expulsion. John, Antti, Kathy and others can confirm this.

- Remind me again: which members were kicked out, and who chose to leave? I can only think of one who was "thrown out" - Duane. Everyone else chose to leave.

- My security clearance? I'm a serving Officer; of course I don't go around willy-nilly saying what it is and I certainly wouldn't tell you.

- "Highly secret USAF base"? I did an exchange to Eglin, and I told people about it. No secret at all - just your rampart paranoia showing again.

- Once again: people choose to leave. They can come back if they like; all they have to do conform with the rules like everyone else. Let's see, "removal of posters"? Charles is still here. You are still here. Myra is still here. Jack is still here. David, Jan and Magda CHOSE to leave.

- I have proved I am innocent of all these accusations!

Let's have a look at Magda. I asked her to put up an avatar in accordance with Jack White's wishes. Remember? He was the one who asked for 'full face' images, and John agreed. Now, I gave Magda plenty of chances to put up an avatar or ask for an exemption. Here are the e-mails sent to her. I can display them because they are all from me to her, and contain no personal information about her:

I have been totally open and honest in all my dealings. I have NEVER been guilty of these continued accusations, but have been the victim of repeated untruths against my character.

Why don't YOU prove what you are accusing me of? You have failed to show one shred of evidence so far.

For example there is now someone without a photo who has posted 140 times, but as they are not on your blacklist will probably [now that I've shamed you or someone else into doing it] be warned politely and not booted-out as was Maggie....and I could go on.

Should you not make all the facts known Peter? Myra started a thread, alerting me to the fact that this poster did not have an avatar. I thanked her, and sent an e-mail to the member concerned. I also reminded people that the member may have an exemption.

Now, how many times has that member posted in the Political Conspiracies section? I'm guessing ZERO, because I don't recognise their name (and I would remember it). Where does that member normally post? The JFK section, which I only rarely visit.

Should you not be complaining that Kathy failed to remind that member of the rules?

Should you not be complaining that Antti failed to remind that member of the rules?

Should you not be complaining that John failed to remind that member of the rules?

Also - and this has been stated numerous times - both Jan and Maggie will have moderation removed if they comply with Forum rules regarding avatars. This is their choice, and their choice alone.

Jan had a hissy fit and left, demanding his posts be deleted.

Magda was reminded numerous times over a period of weeks - and I have the e-mails to prove as such - but refused to change her avatar or ask John for an exemption.

Don't blame me if people display puerile and obstinate behaviour, and then cannot accept the consequences of such behaviour.

Also, if I care to look at the DPF - and I'd like to know how you know I am doing so unless you or that forum has been actively spying on me - then that is my concern, and none of yours.

If the members of the DPF are so afraid of people reading what they say, then they should make the forum private.

Please go ahead and show me where this "erased" material is.

Remember, we have gone through all this before: the admins have records of what has been deleted, edited, etc. Strange though the material exists - unedited - which supports what I say, and yet everything which Jan / you (I am unsure who is saying exactly what in your post) claim is... missing?

You claim I "...wanted to alter his text or have him booted out..." and I asked you to produce evidence of such. So far we have Jan or yourself repeating the claim, but no actual proof.

As I said before, I disagreed with Jan and apologised to him. I seem to recall there was dispute between Jan (or you?) & Len over what constituted a peer-reviewed paper but that was neither here nor there as far as the Forum is concerned. I would never edit a post because I disagree with the source; I would only edit a text if it uses banned words or contains a personal attack.

So again:

Please show where I wanted / did edit text because a source was not peer-reviewed.

Please show where I asked for Jan to be removed as a member of this Forum.

As I have said many times, I don't know squat about banks, economics, etc, but 'Liquidate the banks, fire the executives' sounds like a good idea.

Apparently he wanted to be shot down, a sort of "suicide by cop".

Thanks for bringing that to our attention, Myra. I'll let John and Andy know about it; I deal with the Political Conspiracies board mainly, and this other Evan has not posted here. He posts on the JFK section.

Be aware though, that he may have John's okay to not have an avatar.

Looks like he is someone who adds a lot to the JFK debate: ex-detective, weapons expert, etc.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/

Jack has a habit of making claims about the forum which turn out to be inaccurate or completely wrong.

What he claims may indeed be true - but instead of making the claim then saying "I have no time", let him show the claim to be true; otherwise he should not make the claim - against another Forum member - until he has the evidence to back it up.

John,

All of us here express our condolences and deepest sympathies.

13 March 1969

The final day of Apollo 9’s flight began with the CAPCOM (Capsule Communicator – in other words, mission control at Houston) – waking the crew with the "alarm clock" tone rather than music that had been used on other occasions. Jim McDivitt was not bothered by this at all – he and the crew were now awake, ready to get to work and looking forward to their return to Earth.

CAPCOM: "All right. Out of the sack, troops! Let’s get to work. Today you come home."

McDIVITT: "Hot diggity dog! I think we’re all ready!"

Houston alerted the crew to a small problem; their Digital Autopilot (DAP) was still powered up, despite being given the command to power down the previous evening. It was a small matter, and would not affect re-entry. Conditions for splashdown were also passed: visibility 10 miles, wind at 5 knots, scattered clouds at 3000 feet, calm seas and a 5 foot swell with a 10 second period. Good conditions for splashdown. The crew was happy with the report, and a playful CAPCOM replied "Well, you put in an order and we strive to please."

The crew became absorbed in flight plan changes, updates, and general housekeeping duties. When Jim McDivitt mentioned he wanted to take more photos to use up the film, the CAPCOM – fellow astronaut Stu Roosa* – passed up a special request: they wanted pictures of Australia! The spacecraft would pass over Perth, in Western Australia, at night. Perth became famous when the residents of the city turned on their lights for John Glenn in Friendship 7, and now was an opportunity to repeat it. The crew also reported seeing the lights of Sydney.

Finally after 10 days, 31 minutes and 15 seconds from liftoff, the SPS engine was fired to de-orbit the spacecraft. Five minutes later, the crew jettisoned the Service Module, the cylindrical portion of the spacecraft that contained vital items such as the fuel cells, oxygen tanks, and the all important SPS engine. Its job done, the Service Module separated from the Command Module. The CM would now run on batteries and no matter what, it was coming back to Earth. Eight minutes later, the CM began to re-enter the atmosphere. For about 10 minutes, the capsule made its fiery plunge towards the surface, ionization around the capsule from its speedy transit making communications impossible.

Twenty minutes after the de-orbit burn, ground stations were relieved to hear McDivitt call "Apollo 9 here".

All three chutes deployed shortly after, and the recovery helicopters – callsign AIRBOSS – gave a narrative of the capsules descent toward the Atlantic Ocean. The capsule hit the water – only 2.3 nautical miles from the planned impact point - and recovery crews began to secure the capsule. A floatation collar was placed around it, and rafts were placed alongside so that the crew could remain safe. One at a time, they would be winched up into the Sea King helicopter and then all three were flown to the recovery carrier USS Guadalcanal, just 3 miles away, for postflight medicals and debriefing.

The crew of Apollo 9 had successfully paved the way for Apollo 10, the F mission: a dress rehearsal for a lunar landing.

( * - CAPCOMs were always a fellow astronaut, and no-one apart from the CAPCOM was allowed to speak to the crew. Exceptions were 'senior astronaut' Deke Slayton or a special event like a Presidential broadcast or the wives of the crew. Rookie astronauts would normally serve as a CAPCOM before being assigned to the flight rotation.)

Apollo 9 nears splashdown

The crew of Apollo 9 aboard the recovery vessel, USS GUADALCANAL

The CM aboard the recovery vessel

40 years later, the crew of Apollo 9 reunite in front of their CM 'Gumdrop' (from L to R: Scott, McDivitt, Schweikart). The CM is on display at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, California.

If the rich were ever to go on strike, my God, whatever would we do.

Prosper?

John,

How do they determine "outselling"? Is it total sales divided by time on sale to produce average sales per day? Is it currently outselling Obama because monthly totals are better?

Okay, here is that article that was referred to.

Guerrilla mission under the sea

By Harry Hull.

From USNI Naval History, Annapolis, Jun 2000. Vol. 14, Iss. 3, p. 44 (3 pp.)

In the summer of 1943, the commanding officer of the USS Thresher (SS-200) set out on patrol with an unusual mission: sail through dangerous Japanese-controlled waters to deliver five Filipino guerrillas to meet their contacts in the Philippines.

On a typical late fall day in June 1943 I paid my parting call on Admiral Ralph Christie in Perth, Australia. I was skipper of the USS Thresher (SS-200), and I was about to depart on my second war patrol. Upon completing the patrol, we were to return to the Navy Yard at Mare Island, California, for overhaul. This, however, would not be a normal patrol.

After discussing the general situation, Admiral Christie said, "When you go aboard your ship, you may think you have five new Filipino stewards, but you don't. They're dressed that way for cover. The senior one is Dr. Igmidio Cruz, President Quezon's personal physician, whom you are to put ashore somewhere in the Philippines as specified in your sealed orders. He has been commissioned major in the Philippine Army. His president wants him to visit as many guerrilla groups as feasible and all the major cities. Then we'll pull him out and send him back to report to Quezon in Washington."

Admiral Christie also said that the other four men were a lieutenant, a corporal, and two privates in the Philippine Army who had volunteered to join a guerrilla group to fight the Japanese. First Lieutenant Petronio Huerto might be particularly useful because as a civilian he was a coastal pilot in the area. The other men were Corporal Juan Rodriguez, Private Pedro Cariaga, and Private Dominador Gobaleza.

We carried only 16 torpedoes when we left Freemantle, and the after torpedo room had a full load of mines for another secret mission. Preliminary papers said that the guerrillas would have sailing canoes at the landing point, but in case they did not, we had been given four rubber boats which we would inflate and use to ferry the five men and ten tons of supplies from the ship to the beach. My Executive Officer, Larry Julihn, and I both had qualms. Neither of us had any experience with these rubber boats, but both knew canoes and their problems, so we decided to have a good rehearsal in Exmouth Gulf.

The Gulf certainly cooperated, providing a strong wind and an occasional white cap. We anchored and swung naturally into the wind. We rigged out the bow planes, inflated one of the rubber rafts, put a good long line on its front end and tended it from the open area on the main deck forward of the bridge. Letting the line out until the rubber raft was riding just over the stem plane, we called for volunteer teams of two men to paddle into the wind from the stem planes to the bow planes. Lots of men volunteered, but none of them could make headway. Finally I said to the Exec, "Shall we show them how to do it?" He said "Let's."

We went below and put on bathing suits, came back top-- side, and found the crew grinning with the expectation of the Captain and the Exec making fools of the themselves. We knelt side-by-side in the front end of the raft and started paddling. As in a canoe, with our weight forward, the wind kept the boat pointed in the right direction, and we slowly made it to the bow planes. Surprised cheer greeted us, and soon we had all the teams trained and ready. We proceeded on through Lombok Strait between Bali and Lombok into our operating area.

From his exile in Washington, Philippine President Manuel Quezon entrusted his personal physician with the dangerous task of visiting guerrilla groups on the Japanese-- occupied islands.

We made a couple of attacks off Balikapen with unknown results because of the shallow water and counter-- attacks. Later, we spotted a convoy which turned out to be two tankers and another ship escorted by one destroyer. Using the "end run" tactic, we opened the range to where we could see only their tops, which meant they could not see us. Then we could surface and make 20 knots to get ahead of them keeping only their tops in sight, submerge, and wait for them to come into range. We had a good set-up on the tankers when they suddenly zigged. The destroyer ended up nearly dead ahead of us at less than 1,000 yards. We fired two torpedoes, and both exploded. One exploded under the ship, and the other a little too soon, as I had not waited the prescribed ten seconds between shots.

It was dark now, and we had bit of trouble locating the other ships. Radar finally picked them up, and we chased the largest blips. When we were close enough we fired a good spread of torpedoes, and at the appropriate time we heard several explosions. Soon there were two great fires up ahead. Submarine crews rarely see the evidence of their successes. This seemed to be a good moment to let some of the men see the two brightly burning fires, so we passed word through the boat that the men could come to the bridge five at a time to see what they had done.

We also sent a message to Perth reporting our attacks. Before dawn, we got a reply stating that the destroyer had not sunk. We were ordered to go back and finish the job before she could be salvaged. We headed back and several tugs were preparing to tow the destroyer. About the same time, a large lone merchant ship appeared, so we came to the surface and started an end run to get ahead of him. She must have spotted us because she increased speed and we could not close the range.

Some years later I found that our destroyer was still on the ways in Java's Surabaya Navy Yard at the end of the war. I think we can claim that this was even better than sinking her, because she never got back into action and took up needed navy yard space and labor for two years.

It was now time to reconnoiter the area where we were to lay our minefield. I had studied the charts and did not particularly like the lay of the land. We proceeded to the prescribed estuary and started up the long approach. There was very little water under our bottom at periscope depth, and there were a couple of turns into what I would call rivers before we reached our target area. I finally decided that with Dr. Cruz and the guerrillas on board, the risk of grounding and losing them and the ship to the Japanese exceeded any likely return from the minefield, so I pulled out and headed for our Philippine rendezvous. The next time I saw Walter Michaels, the Bryn Mawr physics professor on loan to the Navy to plan minefields, he admitted that he did not really expect anyone to lay that particular field.

Our rendezvous was a cove on the southwest coast of the island of Negros. Following standard procedure, we arrived in the area well before dawn, fixed our position as best we could, submerged and headed in to case the cove. The water was deep and I was able to come in to about a mile off the beach. I could see several small boats through the periscope. Lieutenant Huerto said that there was no reason for such boats to be there so we concluded that they must belong to our friends-meaning we would not have to use the rubber boats for transport. We headed out a few miles to wait until dusk.

A little before noon, a Japanese destroyer appeared from the southeast and lay to between us and our cove. With only one torpedo left, it was an easy decision not to use it. If we got a hit and sank the destroyer, she would certainly have time to get a message off to headquarters. Ships and planes would rush to the area and our landing would have to be aborted. We ran very silent. After an hour, the destroyer steamed away to the northwest. Nothing else happened, so in the late afternoon we moved in towards the cove.

I asked Dr. Cruz if he still wanted to go ashore in spite of the destroyer. I knew from our conversations that Dr. Cruz was fatalistic-he did not expect to survive his assignment, but was determined to give it his best. His reply to my question was, "I must."

We surfaced at dusk and backed the rest of the way until we were in fairly close. The sailing canoes in the cove had started out to meet us. Lieutenant Huerto met them in one of the rubber rafts and gave us the proper recognition signal assuring us that they were friends. When the first boat came alongside, the leader of the guerrillas climbed aboard. Dr. Cruz introduced him as Major Jesus Villamor, the first Philippine ace aviator, whose heroics in shooting down Japanese planes have since been commemorated on a Philippine postage stamp.

"What did you think of that Jap destroyer out there?" I asked him.

"I didn't like it," he said. "I didn't like those Jap Zero planes overhead all day, either." I had not seen the Zeros, but I wasn't very good at spotting planes with a periscope.

"Not to worry," Villamoor assured me, waving toward the island. "There's a point off to the left, and one off to the right. I have men on both points with great piles of brush. If anything comes toward us from either direction, they'll light the pile, we'll jump in the water, and you can slip back out to sea."

We began the process of unloading, which didn't take long. My crew had taken these Filipinos to their hearts. The cook and commissary officer came up and said, "Captain, we've got plenty of food. Let's give all we can spare to them."

"Are you sure?" I asked. "We won't have a chance to replenish until we reach Midway. I don't want to eat pancakes from here to Midway."

"Yes, sir! No problem!"

At the suggestion of the Exec, we gave them our small arms as well, which we were not likely to need.

In the end they took about 20 tons of supplies instead of the 10 tons planned. When everything was finally off-- loaded we said our good-byes and headed for the deep sea. As we were preparing to make the usual trim dive to compensate for the weight we had just taken off, the communications officer brought me a message from our headquarters in Perth which read: "DON'T DO IT. IT'S A TRAP!" I suppose the presence of the Japanese destroyer at our rendezvous was the cause of this alert to potential trouble, but by then it was ancient history. When we surfaced from the trim dive, I had the pleasure of replying: "Mission Accomplished." We ran low on food two or three days out of Midway and ate pancakes the rest of the way.

Dr. Cruz did survive his mission. He carried out all of Quezon's instructions, was evacuated by another submarine, and made his report to President Quezon. Some years later when I was captain of the USS Merrick (LKA-97), and in Manila briefly, I found that he had become Colonel Cruz, medical officer commanding the Philippine Army Hospital. I tried to reach him by telephone but he was out of town. I was on my way to Washington on emergency leave as my mother was ill, so we never met again.

By REAR ADMIRAL HARRY HULL, U.S. Navy (Retired)

Admiral Hull commanded the Thresher during her seventh, eighth, and ninth war patrols. He was awarded the Navy Cross for heroism during those patrols.