Bill Cheslock

I'm going to break down and read Armstrong's book Harvey and Lee. It won't take much to convince me that there were two Oswalds (and I don't mean some occasional impersonator such as Seymour).

Ron

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Ron:

Your remark about Armstrong's book, "Harvey and Lee" is interesting.

Although I haven't read it, I have seen excerpts from it and Armstrong does

bring up a few arguments for the two Oswald theory that are difficult to dismiss.

I won't go into detail, but I will bring up one that I have found difficult

to explain. Armstrong discovered that Lee Oswald was working for the Pfisterer

Dental Laboratory in New Orleans during the exact time he was serving

duty in the United States Marines. Quite frankly, this is an impossibility.

Armstrong goes on to say that all of Oswald's records from Pfisterer have conveniently disappeared. The WC has gone on record and stated that Oswald

worked at Pfisterer in 1956, before entering the Marines. However, employees

at the dental lab remember Oswald well, and remember working with him from

the fall of 1957 to the summer of 1958 (CE 1386), during the same time Oswald

was in the Marines. It does indeed make you stop and wonder...........

Bill Cheslock

At his midnight "press conference" Lee was asked "did you shoot the president" and his answer went something like "No one has said that to me yet. The first I heard of that was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question"

I know of no evidence that Lee was lying when he made that statement, unless of course you make the assumption that he was guilty.

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Yes, Raymond thank you.

He does indeed say that & if you watch it again you should notice his voice faulter when he says the word "hall".

What the source of that nervousness is is anyone's guess, could well be an innocent explaination for it.

I have a little love for the guy but I do believe he may well of been aware of, at least part of the plot.

Anyway, the question at the press conference was "Did you kill the President?"

& his exact answer was "No. I have not been charged with that, in fact nobody has said that to me yet...."

so he was of course referring to the authorities at that time.

Lee's reply does not say he wasn't aware of the death, it just says he wasn't aware that's that what he was there for.

If you have him saying he no idea the President was dead here, then can you not see how how his reply makes him extreemly coldhearted?

Alan

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Alan:

Thank you for correcting my mistake. Even though O'Toole's book had the

sentence correct, I typed the word "shoot" instead of "kill." For the record,

O'Tooles book, "The Assassination Tapes" had the sentence correct, which reads,

"Did you kill the President?" Thanks again correcting my error.

Bill Cheslock

Alan Healy wrote: Telling the prisoner that the President is dead when he asked, is an insignificant item IMO. You think they saved that information until they charged him?

At his midnight "press conference" Lee was asked "did you shoot the president" and his answer went something like "No one has said that to me yet. The first I heard of that was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question"

I know of no evidence that Lee was lying when he made that statement, unless of course you make the assumption that he was guilty.

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J. Raymond:

Although there seems to be no evidence that Lee was lying when he made that statement, there is evidence available that he was telling the truth when he made that statement.

According to George O'Toole's book, "The Assassination Tapes"

which used a psychological stress evaluator to analyze Oswald's voice to determine whether or not he was telling the truth, Oswald was not lying when he

said "no" in reference to the question asked, "did you shoot the president?"

On page 123 of his book, O'Toole had a man named Mike Kradz of Dektor analyze

the voice without revealing to him that it was Oswald's. Kradz came to the conclusion that this "person" was telling the truth about not killing "a policeman and an executive," However, the person, according to Kradz, may have been

lying when he said, "I positively know nothing about this situation here," and

"I know nothing more than that."

This last finding by Kradz lends validity to the theory that Oswald

may have known something about an attemtpt on JFK's life because he soon

started calling himself a "patsy."

Bill Cheslock

James:

            In Robert Groden's book, "The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald"

there is a photo of Julia Postal on page 147.  The woman above doesn't

look like the woman in Groden's photo, but if you have a copy of the book

you might decide for yourself. (Bill Cheslock)

Hi Bill,

I don't have Groden's book so hopefully a forum member can post the image you cited. I have no idea who the woman is in the image I posted, just a wild stab in the dark.

James

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James:

I would post the photo but unfortunately, my scanner is not cooperating

with me at the moment. I have to find the glitch. I hope a member is able to

post it for us.

Bill

Thanks, Bernice. That is very interesting indeed.

Haire said the guy taken out the back of the theater was wearing a white pullover shirt. I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Brewer was wearing a coat and tie so it sounds like two different people.

BTW, do you know if this is Julia Postal below?

James

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James:

In Robert Groden's book, "The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald"

there is a photo of Julia Postal on page 147. The woman above doesn't

look like the woman in Groden's photo, but if you have a copy of the book

you might decide for yourself.

Bill Cheslock

Bernard Haire's story has always caught my attention, makes one wonder who that person was who was arrested, I dont recall that arrest ever being in any police reports. I wonder if this person was there to get rid of Oswald or meet with him and his chance to do one or the other went out the window when Oswald got arrested. (Ryan Crowe)

Hi Ryan,

The fact that this character was taken out the back door seems to suggest several things. One, there was indeed an Oswald impersonator. Two, the original plan itself had run off the rails. Three, the impersonator needed to be surrepticiously removed from the scene.

I guess this is all speculation at best but it sure adds another twist to a tale that is already full of twists.

James

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Hi James:

Bernard Haire's story has fascinated me for years. You would think that at least one of the Dallas Police officers who brought the suspect out the rear of the movie theater would've spoke about it by now. I'm not doubting that it happened, and I would like to have the identity of just one of the arresting officers who came out that back door with the "other " suspect.

Bill C

Paul:

I believe the observations of Lee Bowers coincide with

what Ed Hoffman said about men behind the picket fence.

As for the cigarette butts, wouldn't DNA testing be a

dream come true if any of those butts were saved as evidence?

Bill C

For fun.

A comparison of Warren Report exhibit ce350 with Altgens.  IMO, the infamous 'spiral shaped through-and-through hole' is nothing more than an illusion created by a combination of the hair style of a little girl and a pleat of her Mother's dress, as they are standing at the side of the street on Elm, seen through the windshield of the Lincoln.  See second attachment.

What this implies is a hit to the windshield from the front, which impacted the rear view mirror.  The other implication, IMO, is a miss from the DalTex, which came from the rear, narrowly missed the top of Kennedy's head, penetrated the windshield and perhaps became unjacketed, and continued on it's trajectory and stuck the curb at Main street by the underpass, wounding Tague.  The throat wound would have been fired from behind the retaining wall, and unfortunately clipped the top edge of the Stemmons Sign, before penetrating Kennedy's throat.  The damage to the sign required alteration in the z-film, and the sign had to be replaced.  The wound to Kennedy's throat was not large, as it had lost some of it's shape and size by striking the sign.

- lee

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Lee:

There are two witnesses who saw a bullet hole in the limousine windshield.

Sergeant Starvis Ellis was interviewed in 1976 on CFTR radio in 1976 and shared

his observations at Parkland Hospital on November 22, 1963. He said, "I showed

it to Chaney at the hospital. You could take a regular standard writing pencil - wood pencil and stick it through there."

Yet another witness to the bullet hole in the windsheild was Evalea Glanges.

At the time she was a medical student at Parkland. In his book, "JFK Conspiracy of Silence," Dr. Charles Crenshaw writes that Ms. Glanges told him she was outside in the emergency room parking lot and standing beside the president's limousine. She told Dr. Crenshaw that she pointed out to another medical student

that there was a bullet hole in the windshield.

There is no reason to believe that these witnesses are fabricating their

stories.

Bill

Did he mark the shell casings from the Tippet murder scene......or not?

Hi Tom, I don't know if this helps but it would be interesting to know what purpose

is behind your question.

George

Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn?

Mr. POE. A man, white man.

Mr. BALL. What was he doing?

Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run.

Mr. BALL. And what did he say?

Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up.

Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls?

Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls?

Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene.

Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab?

Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Mr. BALL. How many cartridges, or empty cartridges or shells were given to you?

Mr. POE. There were two in an empty Winston cigarette package.

Mr. BALL. Did you save the Winston cigarette package?

Mr. POE. I turned it in with the two cartridges.

Mr. BALL. To the crime lab?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Now, I have here a package which has been marked "Q"--FBI lab. Q-74 to Q-77. Would you look those over and see if there is any identification on there by you to indicate that those were the hulls given to you by Benavides?

Mr. POE. I want to say these two are mine, but I couldn't swear to it.

Mr. BALL. Did you make a mark?

Mr. POE. I can't swear to it; no, sir.

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Hi George:

Poe's testimony is at best ambiguous. If we continue on Ball and Poe

play musical chairs on the issue of the marks on the hulls:

BALL: But there was a mark on two of these?

POE: There is a mark. I believe I put on them, but I couldn't swear to it.

I couldn't make them out anymore.

BALL: Now, the ones you said you made a mark on are you think it is these two

Q-77 and Q-75?

POE: Yes, sir, those two there.

BALL: Both marked Western Special? They both are marked Western Special.

How long did you stay there?

(WCH VII P. 69)

Bill C

Bill,

Great post! I have never read this before. You learn something new everyday. IMHO, the Secret Service itself got a free ride that day, and some really good critics are still willing to excuse their indefensible failure to react in Dealey Plaza.

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Don:

Actually, this entire segment of the Secret Service investigation is quite

enlightening. More than a couple of agents were out partying into the early hours

of November 22, 1963, hours before the assassination.

According to their depostitions, the following agents admitted to consuming

alcoholic beverages in the early morning hours of November 22, 1963;

Richard Johnsen, John Ready, Clint Hill, Ernest Olsson, Paul Landis, Donald Lawton, Andrew Berger, Paul Burns, and David Grant.

According to Secret Service regulations governing the use of liquor, Chief

James Rowley conceded that these men violated these regulations, but he did not

punish them, according to an AP wire story, because it would place an undeserved stigma on them.

Bill C.

In the aftermath of the assassination, many Secret Service agents who were present in Fort Worth and/or Dallas were obligated to write depositions as to where and what they were doing on the night of November 21 and the early morning hours of November 22, 1963. One agent was not asked to write about his activities during this time. Where was Bill Greer, the driver of the presidential limousine the night of November 21st and the early morning hours of November 22, 1963?

In CE 1020, I found depositions which were written by the following agents who were in Fort Worth and/or Dallas: Arthur Godfrey, Roy Kellerman, Stewart Stout, Rufus Youngblood, Glen Bennett, Andrew Berger, Gerald Blaine, Paul Burns, Clint Hill, Richard Johnsen, Paul Landis, Donald Lawton, Ernest Olson, Gerald O'Rourke, John Ready, and Emory Roberts.

I find it interesting that investigators would want to know what agents Johnsen and Stout were doing during the time in question, when their posts were situated in the Trade Mart, a location President Kennedy never arrived at. Yet, investigators seemed to have no interest in Agent Greer's activities during the time in question, even though he had one of the most important jobs during the assassination........he was driving the the limousine that was ambushed in Dealey Plaza.

I have been researching the JFK assassination and the political assassinations of the 1960's in the United States since the early researchers published their books which questioned the findings of the Warren Report, i.e., Harold Weisberg, Mark Lane, Sylvia Meagher, Josiah Thompson, Penn Jones, et al.

I live on Cape Cod, Massachusetts in the shadows of the Kennedy Compound, and have taught a course on the assassinations for many years now. I am a high school history teacher and earned a master degree in special education.

The reason for my interest in the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations is simple. We have not been told the entire truth about any of these political murders, and I would like to know why these leaders were cut down so early in their lives. Thus, the quest for the truth continues.