William Kelly
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Thanks for the pix of the padre, James.
You got a mug of Rogelio Eugenio Cisneros?
Here's some excerpts from Lafontaine's book regarding McChann, and have read Maryanne Sullivan's book, "Kennedy Ripples - A True Love Story" (1994, San Clemente, Calf.), which Lafontaine calls the "Harlequin Romance" version of the Kennedy assassination, which follows McChann to New Orleans and Florida, but not to Tailand.
Peter Dale Scott has been spending a lot of time in Thailand, and he's awaiting my review of Max Holland's KAT, and I'll ask him about McChann.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
Machann, Walter Michael, Father –
Also spelled phonetically as MaChann, McCann, McKann and McChan.
From: Oswald Talked – The New Evidence in the JFK Assassination
by Ray and Mary La Fontaine, (Pelican Publishing Co. , Gretna, 1996).
[p.264-265]: “The last time Father Machann was seen in his public role as shepherd of the city’s Catholic exile community was the Tuesday night of October 1, 1963. On that evening, he and other prominent members of the resettlement committee had shared the stage of Highland Park Town Hall with a guest speaker, John Martino, a fifty-two-year-old American and Mafia associate who was on a Bircher-paid tour to talk about his recently published book, ‘I Was Castro’s Prisoner.’ Martino had been imprisoned in Cuba for some thirty-nine months (during which time he befriended Silvia Odio’s father, Amador), and his three-hour book talk dwelled on the barbarism of his confinement by the revolutionary regime – balm to the ars of the gathered refugees and their circle of benefactors on the Town Hall stage…”
“Trudy Castor,…also sat on the stage with Father Machann that last evening,…later said, ‘I have no idea why he [Father Machann] left….After a week or two went by, of course, the Cubans were all talking about, well, ‘Where’s Father Machann?’ After all, this was their spiritual leader and no one seemed to know where he was or what had happened.’”
[p. 268] : “Father Machann’s disappearance was somehow connected to the assassination of the president,….he had heard, perhaps in confession from one of the refugees, perhaps from his mistress Silvia, something about the impending event. This wasn’t an absurd or uncommon opinion, it should be noted. Even Colonel Castorr (who, as Father Machann believed, had some sort of intelligence interest in the Cubans) speculated that he priest had learned something he shouldn’t have. Machann was at his mother’s Dallas home on the day of the assassination, the mother would later reveal, and Colonel Castorr had heard, probably from Mother Machann, that the father, ‘went to pieces in hearing the telecast.’…”
“…investigator Harold Weisberg had also heard that Father Machann entered ‘a home to rest’ following the assassination.”
Page 251: “….A few weeks before the assassination (Fr. Walter M. Machann) had mysteriously dropped out of sight, perhaps from a breakdown, in the city where he had been a lifelong resident. Some weeks later, after the assassination, he quietly left town and has not lived in Dallas since, though returning occasionally to visit his mother. He was last seen in (1993) in Bangkok. (Machann’s mother told Mary in a recent interview that he was visited by the Secret Service or other government investigators as recently as 1992 or 1990.).”
“But in the spring of 1964, Father Machann hadn’t yet made it to Bangkok. That April, apparently at he behest of the Western general counsel J. Lee Rankin, the Secret Service had launched an all-out search for the unusual padre, who was rumored to have bedded a number of women parishioners during his denture as assistant pastor at the Catholic church in east Dallas. After agents failed even to identify the father in Miami (where he had received his training as a Cuban refugee adviser), Secret Service inspector Thomas Kelly managed to locate Machann in New Orleans, interviewing him on Thursday, April 30.”
“The former Dallas priest (he was now on indefinite leave) had been attending classes at LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, and was, as he told Kelly, a frequent visitor of Silvia’s uncle, Dr. Agustin Guitart, a physics professor at the university. Cuitart, it may be recalled, happened also to be a friend of Carlos Bringuier’s, and had attended the New Orleans court hearing of Lee Harvey Oswald following his ‘street scuffle’ with Bringuier and two other members of the local chapter of the Student Revolutionary Directorate (DRE) the previous summer.”
“It wasn’t, of course Machann’s vow-breaking proclivities that interested assassination investigators like Kelley, but the role he was said to have played from 1961 through most of 1963 as chaplain of a Dallas group assisting Cuban refugees; for if rumors were flying concerning the priest’s sexual liaisons, they were even more rampant on a more relevant matter, the possible participation of Cubans – whether pro- or antic-Castro one couldn’t say – in the assassination of the president. On the latter matter, Machann had been in a position to be an invaluable informant.”
“Organized in 1961, the Cuban Catholic Committee of Dallas had sought to help Cuban refugees by finding them jobs and planning social and religious functions for their families. In march 1963 the committee had gone a step further, setting up a resettlement office funded through the Catholic Relief Service. Responsibility for conduct of the new office, which offered food and other living assistance for arriving exiles (who were frequently met by committee members as they stepped off a plane at Love Field), had been given to the committee’s capable director, Father Machann. In his capacity as benefactor and spiritual liaison with the Church, the clean-cut father had been a popular figure with the refugees. He knew virtually everyone in the Dallas exile community, and everyone knew him – this despite the fact (as Machann told [s.S.] Inspector Kelly in April 1964) he had made it a policy never to attend ‘any of the political meetings of the Cuban groups that were represented by the Cubans in Dallas, although he was often cajoled and entreated to attend them.’”
“That the father had often been cajoled as well by ladies of the flock wasn’t hard to believe. He was twenty-nine - three years older than Silvia – tall, and movie-star handsome. (However, the Secret Service mistakenly reported Machann’s age at this time as twenty-six.) He had dimples; he was intelligent; he was polite; he was perfect….”
“For all its good works, the Cuban Relief Committee of Dallas had been abruptly disbanded immediately after the president’s murder, by which time the handsome and seemingly competent father, though still in town, was nowhere to be found. He had reportedly taken shelter at his mother’s house, and was there on the Friday of the assassination – when he, like Silvia that day, was said to have suffered a collapse. But whatever the priest’s personal problems may have been at this time – the ones that had driven him underground – the Secret Service and other federal agencies knew nothing of them, except for the whispers of his sexual entanglements. That Silvia [Odio] had been a conquest of Machann’s (or vice versa, perhaps) had already been reported to authorities by her old socialite confidante, Lucille Connell, and tacitly acknowledged by Silvia’s psychiatrist, Dr. Burton Einspruch. The psychiatrist told Warren interviewer Burt W. Griffin that he ‘did not believe the affair with Father Machann was as serious as (the Commission) had been led to believe,’ a rather ambiguous assessment….”
April 1964, having located the missing priest, and armed with the knowledge of his suspected past with Silvia Odio, the Secret Service concocted a devious plan that in efficacy, at least, was miles ahead of the ‘straightforward’ approaches of the FBI and Warren Commission. Instead of grilling Silvia directly on her hallway-Oswald story, Inspector Kelly wanted Father Machann to call Silvia long-distance in Dallas (he would be ‘furnished the necessary funds’) and see if he could get her to tell him ‘the name of the JURE representative who had accompanied Oswald.’ As Kelly may have calculated, she might well confine things to the former lover – her ‘father confessor,’ as she called him in a 1993 documentary – that she wouldn’t say under oath or the glare of a federal inquiry. In this the inspector was probably right, but would Machann be snake enough to go along?”
“It turned out he would. He was, in fact, remarkably docile and cooperative, reportedly stating that ‘it was the duty of every citizen to cooperate to the full extent in the President’s Commission investigation and that he felt he was bound in conscience to give whatever assistance he could.’ It is possible that Machann’s docility was caused (as S.S. head James J. Rowley, Kelley’s superior, wrote on the father’s behalf) by the fact that he ‘did not realize at the time that she [siliva] had not made a full and frank disclosure of the names of the people who brought Oswald to her.’ Toward the end of December 1963, while the priest was still laying low in Dallas, Silvia had spoken to him about the Cubans who had supposedly shown up with ‘Leon Oswald’ in September, but she also told Machann she had already ‘discussed this matter fully’ with the FBI agents. Later, after Father Machann moved to New Orleans, she had written him a letter saying she again ‘discussed her meeting of Oswald with government officials.’ Consequently, Machann told Kelly, he didn’t feel that he would be ‘violating a confidence in giving any information previously given [by Silvia to] the proper authorities.’ Even so, the eagerness of Machann to participate in this game – ‘stating that he could not induce her to tell him who the people were, he could induce her to tell it to the proper authorities’ – sounds a bit edgy somehow, as if fear or nervousness is driving at it, if not the passivity that sometimes accompanies convalescence from a mental breakdown.”
“The deal was struck, and it was agreed Machann would call Silvia that same Thursday evening around 6:30. He requested, and received, privacy for his call. Then, “upon his return to Inspector Kelly’s room at 7:30 pm, he said he had made the call to Mrs. Odio in Dallas and she was very anxious to discuss the entire matter. She advised him [Father Machann] the only information she could provide on the people who visited her was that one of them said he was using the code name Leopoldo, that the second man she could identify as Eugenio Cisneros, and the third man was introduced to her as Leon.’”
“This was amazing, Where did the CISNEROS come from? Silvia hadn’t said a word to the FBI or any other investigative bodyprior to this phone call about one of the two Cubans being Cisneros….”
“…Cisneros himself would immediately jump up and deny the assertion with corroboration of his whereabouts elsewhere in late September of that year…”
“[silvia] Steadfastly refused to admit the obvious, that she had told the priest that one of the men in the hallway had been Rogelio Cisneros. After repeated questioning, the exasperated [Warren Commission attorney Wesley] Liebeler brought out his trump card, the report on the Secret Service-sponsored New Orleans phone call that Kelly’s superior had sent the Commission.”
“MR. LIEBELER. Now, I have a report before me of an interview with Father McKann by a representative of the U.S. Secret Service in which it states that Father McKann told this Secret Service agent that you had told him that one of the men was Eugeneio. But you indicated now that this is not so?”
“MRS. ODIO. No. Perhaps he could have misunderstood me, because he has the same problem with names. Probably I did tell him that the man was not Eugenio….”
[p. 251-256]
“Not many people outside the Catholic circle were talking much about anti-Castro Cubans as possible suspects in the days immediately following the assassination (when the work of the refugee committee was abruptly discontinued by Msgr. Thomas Tschoepe)…” [p. 262]
[Also see: Kennedy Ripples: A True Love Story by Marianne Sullivan (1994, San Clemente, Calf.)]
xxxyyyyzzz
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John, we are currently estimating the second edition to be something like a third longer than the first; it will be published either as a commercial grade book paperback or light hardcover (not sure yet) and as such will have a much broader distribution plus the ability to get into bookstores or libraries. It will not be spiral bound as the first edition.
There will be additional photo pages...I'll have to check on the Fred Black photo, don't recall for sure.
Nothing on Stockdale I'm afraid, not that I don't think it is important. One area that I am intentionally avoiding is the involvement of RFK and Kennedy family damage control. I'm also avoiding larger scale concepts such as what I personally consider the very probable connection of the JFK murder to Robert Kennedy's murder. I'll leave that to other authors, hard enough for me to stay focused as it is...
As a side comment, some of the key new findings to be included in second edition will be included in my Lancer presentation next month.
-- Larry
Hi Larry,
Good to hear you are preparing a second edition. I think your work is the most important and significant new material, though I just started reading Mellon's book.
One thing I missed from the first edition was the timeline you sent me a few years ago. Is your timeline updated and will it be used as an appendex? It is very usefull and should be compared with other Timelines (ie Mary Ferrell's, Ruby, etc.).
Sorry I won't be in Dallas this November, as I have to take care of some family business.
I'd like to read an abstract of your LANCER presentation, if it will be available.
All the best,
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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I have a review copy but am not allowed to post re it until the official publication date.
But readers should see the thread "What Angel Murgado really said" which mentions Professor Mellen's interview with Murgado.
Tim, An advanced review copy is for the purpose of reviewing it.
I've got my own copy now, and since it is available on the open market, I'm sure Joan will relieve you of your confidentiality oath of omerta and need to know secrets and actually write a review of your take on the book.
When I'm finished I'll give you mine.
BK
Bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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In regards to the Odio story, I think Father McChann is an important player and living witness.
Father McChann catered to the Cuban Community of Dallas, his parish supported by Catholic Welfare, which was in turn backrolled by the CIA front Catherwood Fund, of Philadelphia, Pa.
McChann heard the confessions of the Odio sisters and reportedly knew about the Oswald, Angel and Leopoldo visit.
McChann also shared the stage with John Martino in Dallas, when he was on tour promoting his book.
After the assassination, McChann disapeared, only to surface at a seminary in New Orleans.
He later left the priesthood, and was tracked down by my uncle, a Catholic priest (Father Skip), and was last known to be living in Tailand, though his mother and sister were still in Dallas.
I have an article on McChann but it won't post becaue I've reached my global limit. Oh well.
Bill Kelly
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Thanks Steve,
I missed Jack's earlier post.
I hope Jack's onto the Donald P. Norton pix in Mellen's book.
My attachment on DPN didn't take the second time either. What a klutz.
Will try again,
BK
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Thanks Steve,
I missed Jack's earlier post.
I hope Jack's onto the Donald P. Norton pix in Mellen's book.
My attachment on DPN didn't take the second time either. What a klutz.
Will try again,
BK
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Please Note:
This claim re 'oldest inteligance agency' has been made before.
The oldest intelligence gathering department of the US dates to 4 years prior to the declaration of independence : The Postal Inspection Service. This body and its agents have been gathering and disseminating intelligence since before the civil war. ONI was formed in 1882.
Hi John,
I stand corrected. Postal Inspector Holmes delayed Oswald's transfer until Ruby got into position, and the USPS is most certainly a federal intelligence agency.
Attached is an article I wrote about ONI and the JFK assassination.
Also enjoyed Western Australia when I was there in 87-88' - and I read your report on Freemantle, a true seaman's port.
BK
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I think the MexCitySaul was in the LHO Marine
photo which also shows Roscoe White.
Jack
Hi Jack,
I agree.
FWIW, Thomas
Hey,
Could anybody post that photo of LHO, RW and possible "Saul" in the USMC?
Joan Mellen mentions Donald P. Norton in a number of rederences and includes a photo of DPN sitting at a piano back in the days of interest. Maybe somebody with a scanner can copy and post it? Does it match the other Norton pix we have?
I also managed to move some JFK related files from my old computer to the one I'm using on line, and found this article I wrote about Donald P. Norton, based on a Vancover newspaper article.
Apparently there was a Canadian radio interview as well that would be interesting to get a recording or transcript.
Article attached:
Bk
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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Mr Kelly, what is your assessment of the role (if any) Oswald played in the assassination?
Thanks!
Hi Tim,
I guess that cuts to the chase.
The jury is still out on Oswald.
Innocent bystander? no; patsy? probably; covert operative? definately; shooter? hardly.
Because I was dissatisfied with the Secret Service research study on profiling potential assassins, with its emphasis on psychos rather than programed or operative assassins, I developed one of my own - the Operational Profile.
While I am not qualified to profile the psycho-programed assassins, being from New Jersey, where racial profiling prolifierated and profiling is a popular past time, anybody can profile the covert op guys, so I did.
Attached is my Operational Profile, which Oswald fits.
Now identifying LHO as a covert operative is one thing, identifying who is running him is quite another.
Now if that's your next question, I tell you ONI, the oldest, most influencial, most secret and least known official US intelligence agency.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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I have noticed that several threads on the Forum have included Tim Gratz making statements that he claims he has evidence that Fidel Castro or the KGB were involved in the assassination of JFK. However, when asked to produce this evidence, he either ignores the postings, makes silly jokes that attempts to move posters onto another topic, makes excuses for his failure to post or makes promises that he will do it sometime in the future.
I thought it might be worthwhile to start a new thread on Tim Gratz’s evidence (or lack of it). Maybe members who are still waiting for answers should register their questions again on this thread.
Tim, I have read Russo's book, and I've known Gus since we lobbied for the first hearings on the JFK Act in the early 1990s. Back then I looked at him like another independent, freelance journalist, one not bankrolled by a corp news source, but have since recognized his true stripes.
John Judge thought him suspicous from the beginning, especially when he saw gus in a DC restaurant with one of his Spook friends/sources. Later Russo gushed, "They call me 'Gus!"
Gus invited me to his book party in Baltimore, and since it was around Holloweeen (David A. Phillips' birthday), I was going to go dressed as Castro.
Gus is a good researcher, but has an angle that he's trying to prove and a link he's taken up that he can't let go, because he's sold his soul. There's a lot of important items in his book (ie. LICOVY3) but instead of following the evidence to its source, he takes the evidence to his suspect. It just doesn't work that way, whether the suspect is the mob, the CIA, the KGB or Castro.
As for the idea that Castro was behind the assassination, every witness and document is connected to the Black Prop Op - Northwoods - program - that is still in operation today - or bought into it.
What really happened is one of the many teams set up to kill Castro, who were aborted from their original mission, retarged JFK.
Another false scenario is that one of the teams was captured by Castro and turned around to kill JFK, ie Bayo and co., which Johnson himself spelled out in his own terms. LBJ: "...Castro said they [the plotters] had these pills, and they're supposed to take'em when they caught'em, and they didn't get to take their pills - so he [Castro] tourtured'em. And they told him all about it, and who was present and why they did it. So he [Castro] said, okay, we'll just take care of that. So then he called Oswald and a group in, and told them...about this meetin' and go set it up and get the job done....Now that's their story...."
And their story is a concoction that just doesn't hold water, no matter how much you hate Castro.
Attached is a partial list of the Castro Did It Black Prop Ops that I know of.
Bk
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
Black Propaganda Operations affiliated with the Assassination of JFK:
1) A leaflet was distributed to the Florida Cuban community in November, 1963 that warned of an “Act of God” that would put a “Texan in the White House.”
2) Lee Harvey Oswald’s Fair Play for Cuba Committee activities in New Orleans in the summer of 1963.
3) Oswald’s visit to the Cuban and Russian embassies in Mexico City in Sept., 1963.
4) The photographs of Oswald brandishing a rifle and pistol and copies of two leftest but contradictory magazines in his back yard.
5) The last two issues President Kennedy dealt with before leaving the White House for Texas concerned his backchannel negotiations with Fidel Castro at the UN and the discovery of a cache of weapons in Venezuela that appeared to have come from Cuba. The weapons story was later discovered to be over a year old and planted by the CIA to falsely implicate Cuba.
6) Julio Fernandez, one of three anti-Castro Cubans whose boat was financially supported by Clair Booth Luce, called Luce, wife of the publisher of Time-Life on the evening of the assassination to report information on Oswald’s activities in New Orleans. Fernandez, a former Cuban publisher, was married to an attorney who worked for Catholic Welfare Services in Miami.
7) In Miami, shortly after the assassination, Dr. Jose Ignorzio, the chief of clinical psychology for the Catholic Welfare Services, contacted the White House to inform the new administration that Oswald had met directly with Cuban ambassador Armas in Mexico.
8) In Mexico City, David Atlee Philips of the CIA debriefed a Nicaraguan intelligence officer, code named “D,” who claimed to have seen Oswald take money from a Cuban at the Cuban embassy.
9) In New Zealand, U.S.A.F. Col. Fletcher Prouty read complete biographies of Oswald in the local papers hours after the assassination, indicating to him that a bio of Oswald was pre-prepared.
10) Brothers Jerry and James Buchanan, CIA propaganda assets, began promoting the Castro-did-it theme immediately. According to Donald Freed and Jeff Cohen (in Liberation Magazine), the source of the Buchanan’s tales was the leader of the CIA supported International Anti-Communist Brigade (IAB). “Back in Miami,” they wrote, “a high powered propaganda machine was cranking out stories that Oswald was a Cuban agent…” Sturgis is quoted in the Pampara Beach Sun-Sentinel as saying that Oswald had talked with Cuban G-2 agents and fracassed with IAB members in Miami in 1962.
11) Jack Anderson used Sturgis and mobster John Rosselli to keep the Castro plot propaganda story going well into the 1970s.
12) The same “propaganda machine” was still pumping out the same lines in 1976 when Gaeton Fonzi interviewed Sturgis, who said that he had recently ran into a friend who worked for the “company” who reminded him of an incident he had completely forgotten about. Sturgis suddenly recalled, “that he had heard about a meeting in Havana about two months before the Kennedy assassination. At the meeting there were a number of high-ranking men, including Castro, hs brother Raul, Ramiro Valdez, the chief of Cuban intelligence, Che Guevara and his secretary Tanya, another Cuban officer, an American known as ‘El Mexicano,’ and,…oh, yea; Jack Ruby. And the meeting dealt with plotting the assassination of President Kennedy.”
13) Seith Kantor, a Scripps-Howard News Service Reporter in Dallas during the assassination, couldn’t understand why his telephone call records from Parkland Hospital were being withheld because “disclosure would reveal confidential source of information.” When Kantor checked his own records he discovered his editor had told him to call another reporter in Florida or some deep background on Oswald. The reporter in Florida had everything on Oswald, FPFCC, Russian defection, New Orleans radio debate, etc., but instead of using it himself, fed it to Kantor. The reporter was Hal “the Spook” Hendrix, who won the Pulitzer Prize for his coverage of the Cuban Missile Crisis and earned his nickname when he “reported” on the Dominican Republic Coup on September 24, 1963, the day before it happened. His CIA affiliations became better known when he went to work for ITT in Chile and was found guilty of withholding information from a Congressional committee concerning his role in the Chilean coup.
14) While other major news organizations have been exposed as CIA media assets, such as CBS News, Life Magazine, the North American Newspaper Alliance and the Copley Newspaper chain, the Scripps-Howard News Service (SHNS) stands out not only because of the Kantor-Hendrix connection, but because of the March 12 news report out of Washington. An obvious black propaganda operation that stems from NSA intercepts (note that the NSA does not issue press releases), and continues to implicate Castro in not only the assassination of President Kennedy, but in the planning of an assassination on President Reagan. This story is remarkably similar to the one that Sturgis tells [in #12] and includes many of the same conspirators. [see: SHNS Story]. Also please note that two weeks after this obvious piece of black propaganda disinformation was published, President Reagan was shot in front of the Washington Hilton by John Hinkley.
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Bill,
Nice to hear from you again. Sorry to change the subject of this thread, but I've been wondering about your progress in trying get a grand jury convened. Haven't heard anything for well over a year. What's the current status?
RJS
Hello Richard,
The idea behind the JFK Grand Jury stems from past COPA conferences, usually at the end of the last day, on the topic of "Where do we go from here?"
The one thing that we all agree on - is that many questions remain unanswered, many witnesses and suspects remain unquestioned, and many documents we know exist have been denied or destroyed.
The goal of getting new witness testimony, under oath, is an obtainable one, either in civil court (ie libel), Congressional hearing in DC, or in criminal court, which would require grand jury indictments.
There has only been one grand jury conveined on the JFK case that I know of - in New Oreland Parish by Jim Garrison, the proceedings of which have been salvaged, released and posted on line.
A new grand jury is necessary however, if there is to be any criminal indictments.
Dallas would be a natural, but the authorities there are reluctnat to tackle this case, and now that there'sa new DA in New Orleans (Cronick is gone), there is a new window of opportunity in the Big Easy, but a Special Federal Grand Jury would be easiest and best.
While it wasn't a federal crime to kill the pres in 1963, it was a federal crime to conspire to do so, and conspiracy can most definately be shown, at least enogh to conveine a grand jury.
There are three, maybe four natural jurisdictions on the JFK Assassination that could be used - North Texas, La., Miami and DC, with DC being the most likely since that is where most of the evidence is now.
The best part of getting a Grand Jury in motion is that you don't have to convince a lot of people - really only one or two - an assistant district attorney willing to carry the case to the jury, and his boss - the Federal Attorney or the district - but the case must be laid out before them and the living witnesses listed and where to contact them to be subpoened, what the issues are and what questions to ask them, under oath.
The recent Special Federal Grand Jury that investigated the CIA-Plame leak is a good example of the type of special federal grand jury that is needed. Other similar grand juries are the Rocky Flats Grand Jury in Colorado and the Chile Ambassador assassination in DC.
Those interested in grand juries can check out the web site of the University of Dayton, Ohio Law School, whose dean is the authority on grand juries. She has also agreed to assist us in the prepearation of the petition to the federal attornies, which is still in the works. At least a half dozen other lawyers have also agreed to help and are doing so. We are also exploring the idea of conducting a Mock JFK Grand Jury and film the proceedings. Since real grand juries are secret, not even defense lawyers are admitted, a mock grand jury would show people not only how grand juries work, but make them familiar with the real evidence in the case.
The best part of the grand jury petiton is that once the jury is conveined, (it lasts 18 months), only the evidence of crimes is presented - documents and witnesses are subpeoened and testimony taken under oath. If the jury determines there is enough evidence, then indictments are issued, not only for conspiracy, but homicide, perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, etc.
While we have yet to introduce the petion and the requests to the DAs, we will document the case and publicize the response. Those who sign the petion at Petitiononline.com will be kept informed of its progress.
And to bring this back around on topic, if a grand jury is conveined, you can be sure that Robert Oswald will be called and questioned.
Link to JFK Grand Jury Petiton:
http//www.petitiononline.com/jfkgjury/petition.html
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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Well, Has anybody read Joan Mellon's book yet?
How about a report?
Bill Kelly
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I read this online "What is it with brothers? The Hlava brothers, the Naudet brothers, the Pfeifer brothers, the Bin Ladin brothers, the Bushes, the Kennedys, the Dulleses, the Oswalds, the Cabells [one the Mayor of Dallas, the other the deputy to one of the Dulleses at the CIA until one of the Kennedys fired them both]. At least four pairs of brothers in the Dallas story and five in the 9/11 one"
It sounds like prue looney tunes CT to me but I just want to make sure. Were either of Oswald's brothers tied in any way to the assassination?
Hey Len,
I'll give you a comeback on this one.
Oswald had two brothers, Robert Oswald and Edward Pic. Since their father had died, they moved around to different schools, and for awhile were in an orphinage. Robert joined the USMC and Oswald followed him, reportedly memorazing his USMC Handbook before he was 17, and enlisting before graduating from HS.
Lee and Robert were not close, though they did exchange correspondence when Oswald in USSR, and stayed with Robert briefly when he returned from USSR and Robert visited Lee in Dallas prison after his arrest.
Pic joined the Coast Guard, lived in New York City, where Lee and his mother visited for awhile. Later Edward, after getting out of the Coast Guard, joined the Air Force and was statined at Lackland AFB in Texas at the time of the assassination.
Lackland AFB was associated with the Indiana rifle incident, and near the San Antonio hub of a number of military bases, including Brooks Medical Facility, where JFK visited on 11/21/63, and Ft. Sam Houston, home of the 4th Army.
I don't know if there is any signifiance to the initials, like Jefferson Davis Tippit, but Robert, Edward and Lee -also has deep signifiance in the South.
BK
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Most interesting, Mr. Kelley. I have enjoyed all of your posts.
Are you aware that Gerry Hemming states that it was Jake Esterline who was seen in Dallas with Oswald?
No, I wasn't aware of Gerry saying Jake Esterline was in Dallas with Oswald, but Esterline is most certainly a pivitol character in The Carlos Contract, and DAP most certainy was "Maurice Bishop" who met with Oswald in Dallas. Like DeMohrenschildt, DAP is the kind of guy who could entice Oswald to do anything.
BK
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I picked up a few interesting tidbits on Phillips over the years.
During the HSCA investigation, Gaeton Fonzi developed the interest in "Maurice Bishop" and while in Texas, some HSCA investigators visited James Phillips, who was then 77-78' working in I believe state law enformcement - ie attorney geneal's office or something like that.
Tall and more thin than David, James Phillips was photogrphed in his office, the pix of which was later published in the Washingtonian Magazine article by Fonzi, which is extremely long and led to a libel case.
Some of the James Phillips story is in Fonzi's "The Last Investigation" as well.
Shortly after the Washingtonian article came out, but before TLI, I discovered that Phillips was living in Maryland, I got his phone number from information and called him up. He answered the phone, I identified myself as a freelance journalist from Atlantic City, N.J., and he seemed to enjoy talking about some of his books, including "The Carlos Contract," which is fiction, but based on fact.
As with Ian Fleming's characters, All of the characters in TCC are based on real people who DAP worked with in the CIA or came across in his work - including Glenn Gebhard, of Long Island, New York, one of my old University of Dayton, Ohio class mates. He was a film student who told me about how his passport was stolen from a French hotel room, and how hard it was for him to get home and get another one. From then on, whenever he went through a border crossing, he was given the treatment, as Carlos the Jacklel ended up with his old passport and used his name as an alias. Glenn is probably the only person in the book whose real name is used, but the others are very thinly disquised - David "El Indigo" Morrales, Skip - and a few Bay of Pigs people using their cover names.
Phillis said they were going to make a movie out of the The Carlos Contract, but it never happened.
The Nightwatch is what gives DAP away as Maurice Bishop.
But Phillips also wrote three other books that I am aware of, one on "Careers in Intelligence," which my local library has, a book on a famous Texas Justice murder case, and another one on his Cuban operations, which is very rare, and I haven't been able to get, though Last Hurrah had one copy for awhile.
In our telephone converstation, Phillips said he couldn't talk about Fonzi, the Washingtonian or the court case, but he denied being "Maurice Bishop" or knowing LHO, which I asked him directly.
He did say however, that at the time the Washingtonian published Fonzi's article, he was working at the Washingtonian Magazine as some sort of part time editor, and didn't understand why or how Fonzi could work out of an office down the hall from him and not bother to say hello or question him in advance of the publication.
He also elaborated on his friendship with Gordon McLendon at length, which I thought significant.
Phillips invited me to visit with him in DC sometime, but he died of cancer a few months later.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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Isn't it quite a coincidence that there are so many coincidences in the JFK case?
To McAdams and Posner, it IS only a coincidence. To the rest of us, I'm not so sure.
More on Tulane:
BK
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Does anyone know if the 2003 film 'The Commission' is going to be available on dvd/video anytime soon? The film is about the W.C. and has a famous cast but does not seem to have been widely released in the US and I don't think it has been released at all here in the UK. It's a shame as it sounds like a good film - even has Ed Asner who played Guy Banister in JFK , playing Will Fritz.
IMDB.com doesn't list it as being available on dvd anywhere at the moment:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310906/
Francesca
Francesca,
I saw the film, before final edit, at a COPA conference a few years ago and met the producer/director, who works on the set of the TV show Law & Order. That's how he got all the great talent to work for pro bono, and filmed it over a period of years in black and white, so its not a major motion picture you will see in a theater. More likely he will get it on PBS or some non-commercial TV network, and get it out on DVD, though I don't think they are that far advanced yet.
It's an okay flick, trying to capture the Warren Commissioners as they were, warts and all, unlike the glossy revisionism we can expect from Max Holland. Both projects seem to be having a hard time wrapping up.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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James,
Thanks for the pix - What are they holding - jewel encrusted crosses?
Is there a caption for this photo?
Also notice that Reeves is on the board of the CAR - so he's a player and not just a money man.
The Mallow article was weird for interviewing Ruth Paine and having her photo - as a resident of Philly and patron of the accused assassin, and there was a mention of the Catherwood Fund and CAR but no connection was made.
Maybe it has something to do with Julio Fernandez, the third part of the trilogy - attached.
And BTW James,
Where's the Gold Coast - is that Sydney and east coast or elsewhere.
I spent some time at King's Cross before spending a few months in Freemantle/Perth for the America's Cup back in 87'-88'. What a wonderful time and great country.
What ever happened to my good friends Mel Fisher and Alan Bond? Is Bond still in jail?
All the best,
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
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Good stuff, Bill.
When researching the Catherwood Foundation, did you ever come across the name Reeves Wetherill who I think was the Foundation's vice-president during the mid 1950's? I ask as many years ago, I jotted down in my notes a connection to Michael Paine but due to my haphazard style at the time, didn't include the reference.
I have a photo of Ellen Cowen Catherwood and Reeves Wetherill somewhere. If you are interested, I will dig it up.
James
Hello James,
Yes, it would be new to see a photo of Catherwood's wife and Reeves Wetherill, both of whom served on the Catherwood Foundation board. Also any connection to Michael Paine. Reeves, like most of those on the board, were Philadelphia area blue bloods, old money, like Catherwood himself, and like Wisner was looking for: "people with conspicious access to wealth..."
I learned about the Catherwood Foundation, not through the "Invisible Government," which confirms the CIA connection in a footnote, but in a Philadelphia Magazine article about "The Philadelphia Connections" to the JFK assassination, by Mike Mallow (not by Gaeton Fonzi, who also wrote for the magazine at one time). Mallow mentions the Catherwood Foundation, one of its CIA operations - the Cuban Aid Relief (CAR), but neglects to mention the Paine's connection to either.
Attached is my report on the CAR:
BK
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Hi Bruce,
I am familiar with your work on de Mohrenschildt, a complicated character indeed.
He is the one who arranged for Oswald to meet Michael Paine and for Marina to meet Ruth, via Volkmar Schmidt, yet, he bows out of the game before checkmate - moving to Haiti and out of the big picture.
I have a few questions about some of your points, and a few comments to straighten out some misconceptions:
In My research, Bruce Campbell Adamson, I swear the following to be true and correct. I believe there are several motives and they are all correct:1). Mrs. Igor Cassini's suicide, (aka. Charlene Wrightsman father mentor to Conrad Black) Charlene and Igor were friends of de Mohrenschildt's event--April 7, 1963; This motive gives de Mohrenschildt a sense of HONOR for acting on friendship.
------ [is Igor Cassini related to Oleg? - the guy who dated Grace Kelly before she hooked up with Rainier?]
2). Bay of Pigs failure, G.H.W. Bush's operation for CIA April 1961;
3). Firing of Allen Dulles as CIA Director, Nov. 1961
4). Texas Oil depletion Allowance;
5). Bell Helicopter promotion of Vietnam, inventor of Bell Helicopter was stepfather to Michael Paine;
--------- [Michael Paine's stepfather, Arthur Young, did indeed invent the Bell Hel 47A - the MASH helicopter, the first helicopter commercailly licensed by the FAA. The National Bank of Boston had some interest in Bell's finances, details of which are in the footnotes of JFK - the Book of the Movie, and Larry Bell is listed as one of those on the Suite 8B group - that John has previously mentioned being involved in Mockingbird.
Young was a mentor to Michael, and got him the job as an "inventor" at Bell in Texas, but he was also a Philadelphia Quaker, and against war in general. When I interviewed him, and his wife (Michael's mom), she mentioned that Young was proud of the fact that his helicopter was used for medical evac in Korea, but not too happy about it being used as an attack weapon in Vietnam. Vietnam certainly put Bell in the financial black, and Young's stock in the company kept him active playing with his esoteric hobbies. Young in no way however, "promoted" Vietnam. ]
6). Having prior knowledge of assassination one could make a fortune of New York Stock Exchange. On the day JFK was murdered the stock market crashed 21 billion in losts;
------------- [ Listing those who expressed foreknowlege of the assassination gives you an idea of how to connect the dots, sort of like applying the Able Danger links charts - retrospectively. ]
LBJ's first choice for a Warren Commission was former CIA Director Allen Dulles.
7). LBJ's desire to be president, watch dog for oil men as was G.H.W. Bush; Bush and LBJ were friends.
8). Six trustees of the Museum of Modern Art were tied to de Mohrenschildt and Allen Dulles.
------ [ An interesting coincidence, I'm sure, but Art Young's first helicopter, the Bell 47A, is enshrined, not at MIT or Princeton (Young's alma mater), but at the Museum of Modern Art in New York City, where it's glass, roters and girders make it artworthy. Young said both of his parents were artists who studied in Paris, and they would have been proud of him for making the Muse. ]
-------- [ I believe that I was the last independent researcher to interview Arthur Young and Ruth Hyde Paine Young before their death, and would be glad to share what I have with anyone interested.]
But I don't have a book to promote.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
xxxxxxxyyyyyyzzzz
Evidence which clears Oswald: NO GUN POWDER NITRATES ON HIS FACE;
1). Will keep an open mind on Mafia gunmen.
NOT INVOLVED:
1). Lone Gunman;
2). Commie Reds;
3). Commie Cubans;
See website for more information Bruce Campbell Adamson
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Just a coincidence?
It seems like the deeeper you dig into the case, the more mysteries and coincidences are discovered. It is clear, however, that some must be no more than coincidences.
Hi Tim,
To paraphrase Ian Fleming, if something happens one time, consider it a coincidence, twice happenstance, three times - enemy action."
If LHO was indeed a lone-nut, that would have become quickly apparent, but because he was a player, albet a pawn, in the Great Game, he leads us into the maze, Angleton's "wilderness of mirrors," where there are few coincidences.
As I mentioned in my review of Mallon's "Mrs. Paine's Garage" [attached], it may have been a coincidence that Michael Paine was discussing political assassinations at the very moment of the assassination, but it wasn't a coincidence that Michael Paine was the patron of the accused assassin and that Paine was at Bell Hel at the time, and that he worked there.
It may have been a coincidence that George DeMohrneschildt knew Jackie O. but not that he knew Oswald, and his CIA case officer also handled Clay Shaw.
It may have been a coincidence that Marie Hyde met Oswald in two different cities in USSR, but it wasn't a coincidence that one of her photos with Oswald in the picture turned up in CIA files.
It may have been a coincidence that Priscilla Johnson was neighbors with Cord Meyer, Jr., but it wasn't a coinicidence that Stalan's daughter Svetlana stayed with her when she defected from USSR.
It may have been a coincidence that Priscilla Johnson met Oswald in USSSR and wrote about him, it wasn't a coincidence that she got the job of writing Marina's story, leaving out the best parts.
Well,
You get the idea,
Bill Kelly
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John,
Because of the Wilson/Palme affair, I have been thinking a lot about Phil Agee, who was recruited out of Notre Dame by the CIA, and who, I believe, is responsible for the law that make it a crime to knowingly reveal the identity of a CIA agent.
Agee identified not only the agents he knew and worked with, or knew about - like LICOVY3 of Mexico City, a double agent American student from Philadelphia who is suspected by some of being the student "Steve" or "Ed" Keenan who rode Oswald around Mexico City on the back of his motorbike, but others as well. After the agents he exposed were taken out of the field, and the networks he exposed disassembled, he came out with another book that also exposed many agents, though not Welsh - the one he is accused of exposing who was then murdered.
Upon investigation, it was discovered that when replaced, the new CIA agents in embassies abroad merely took over the same offices and phone numbers as their predecessors, so it was no problem for Agee to out their replacements as well.
Agee is still alive, I believe, and his take on the Wilson/Palme affair would be interesting.
BK
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HI John and Gary,
Adele is a member of this forum, and may contribute to this or the Rivera thread, but I don't think it is necessary, as she has already told us what she knows.
As I mentioned in previous posts, I think that Adele has passed the test and is the real deal, even though her story is pretty outrageous. We should be able to get passed Adele to the subjects of her story - Dr./Col. Jose Rivera and SAIC of NO SS John Rice are the most important.
If the combined efforts of the researchers on this forum could locate John Rice, it would be a great service to the JFK research community, as he has never testified or been interviewed properly.
Now locating him and merely asking him if he recall Adele would not work, as a battery of questions on many issues come to mind, and he should be properly questioned with the right questions, and preferably under oath.
The article posted is severly out of date, and some of it is wrong and must be corrected, beginning at the top with my address, email and phone number, all obsolete. I will provide correct correspondence info for anyone interested [bkjfk3@yahoo.com]. I will correct, revise and update the article when I have the time.
I think that Adele has been very forthcoming and has given us everything that she has. She is also very vulnerable and as a suject of Rivera's MKULTRA techniques (as Oswald was), she is lucky to be here.
In the course of my attempts to verify what Adele says, I broke her story down into a number of serials. While John thinks the Stockdale angle is important, I worked on others, including the statement Rivera made, "It will happen when the Shriner's parade comes to New Orleans." [see attachment]
Rivera kept two offices, one at the NIH, where his secretary could still be alive, and another office at "Foggy Bottom," where I presume, some of his covert activities were arranged. The secretary could supply much more info, if located and interviewed.
In addition, we have the 800 page Army file that Doug Horne requested for the ARRB, which gives us Rivera's stations and superiors - Brooks Medical Center in Texas, a Monteray, California base where Army-Navy research was conducted, teaching in New Orleans and Ft. Detrick, Maryland, home to the chem-bio research and MKNAOMI, the operation that I believe Lamanna and Rivera were associated.
Most of my research is a work-in-progress, and I only post it, not for serious critique, but to learn what other's may know and can contribute.
Locating John Rice would be the number one priority.
Bill Kelly
bkjfk3@yahoo.com
While John is interested in Stockdale, an interesting serial,
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In regards to John's speculation that there is a British version of Opeation Mockingbird, I think it's more like the British developed the techniques of using journlists for espionage purposes, refined it and passed it on to us, as US mentors in the great game.
The British (and Russians) had Philby, both Peter (MI6) and Ian Fleming (ONI) masquarding as journalists, Philby in Spain, Peter in China and Ian in USSR, beginning with his "coverage" of the Vics spy trial. As Oswald did returning from USSR, Fleming wrote two different stories on the outcome of the trial, then submitted the correct one when the verdict was announced.
I just posted a new thread with an article I wrote about the Catherwood Foundation, with more details, and will post the article "Bottlefed by Oswald's NANA" when I find it. It's around here somewhere.
Also recalled the name of the guy who bankrolled and published Gerry Posner - Harold Evans, err Sir Howard Evans, who knew Ian Fleming from their days at the Sunday Times of London, where Evans became editor. While he was known for his investigative reporting and exposing Kim Philby as a doubleagent, he failed, with Posner, to get to the truth. According to Posner's intro, Evans gave him free reign, but he must have known the slant from the get go.
It's ironic that Random house, which published "The Invisible Government" by Wise and Ross, would also publish "Case Closed," one eyes wide open, the other closed.
BK
Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by William Kelly