Ashton Gray

• TERRY MAURO: The "cops" were not looking the other way. They were more than likely pulling the trigger.
  ASHTON GRAY: Leaving alone for a moment the testimony of Bowers that they were in his view, leaving alone the complete absence of the slightest shred of evidence that either of them had a rifle at any relevant time, here is the head shot view from the end of the picket fence near where the cops were stationed:

One is not considered an expert for learning the facts of the case, but rather someone who bothered to do their homework before offering an opinion.

Lee Bower's described the two men out in front of him and they were not at the end of the fence...

Poppycock. Claptrap. Tommyrot. I notice you don't quote Bowers before "offering an opinion." I guess I have to do your homework for you:

• MR. BALL: Now, were there any people standing on the high side-- high ground between your tower and where Elm Street goes down under the underpass toward the mouth of the underpass?
  MR. BOWERS: Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about mid-twenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket. ...On the triple underpass, there were two policemen. One facing each direction, both east and west. There was one railroad employee, a signal man there with the Union Terminal Co., and two welders that worked for the Fort Worth Welding firm, and there was also a laborer's assistant furnished by the railroad to these welders.
  MR. BALL: You saw those before the President came by, you saw those people?
  MR. BOWERS: Yes; they were there before and after.
  

And let's not leave out the testimony of Sam Holland, one of the workers on the overpass at the time:

• MR. STERN: Tell me if this is correct, Mr. Holland. At the time' the Presidential motorcade arrived, to the best of your recollection, on the overpass there were two uniformed Dallas Police, and the following employees of the Terminal Co. yourself, Mr. Reilly, Mr. Dodd, Mr. Potter, Mr. Winburn, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Cowzert, and perhaps one other man?
  MR. HOLLAND: That's right.
  

Giving complete benefit of the doubt, and allowing that the stray "two men" in Bowers's testimony were two of the men named during Holland's testimony, that's still no fewer than than ten men on or near the overpass, two of them cops who had been stationed there all morning, all in the same general area, with yet another man—Bowers—in a watch tower having them in view.

No charge for having done your homework for you. This time.

Do people actually take you seriously?

I sure hope you weren't trying to spin Bowers's testimony so you could try to make the case that Miller's Magic Bullet came from there.

Speaking of which, the Weasel Watch is still ticking, and you still haven't said where Miller's Magic Bullet came from.

Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick...

Ashton

Hiya, Priscilla Petticoats.

What I'm seeing is JFK's body slipping down with his hands slipping away from his throat, elbows down, at this point, as the fatal shot impacts his skull at the right temporal/parietal region, driving his head further down

The idee fixé is the consummate tyrant.

That shot appears to have come from the area on the knoll to the right, over by the underpass. But, that's JMHO.

Where the two policemen were stationed.

And a shot from there (real quick, while the cops were looking the other way) drove Kennedy's head...down.

Glad you're on the case.

Ashton

**********************************************

• ASHTON
  "The idee fixé is the consummate tyrant."
  

No parlez vous francaise, pal! Yo hablo espanol.

It means: "The fixed idea is the consummate tyrant." You may quote me in any language.

• ASHTON
  "Where the two policemen were stationed."
  

And, where were they [the two policemen] when everyone ran up the knoll [like lemmings] when those guys in the suits and walkie talkies, flashing S.S. badges, told everyone they had it all covered?

As far as I can determine from testimony, they rushed with the railroad workers on the overpass immediately to the area behind the picket fence—where Sheriff Decker had immediately ordered all available men to go—and tramped around in the TSBD lot with many others looking in vain for any evidence of a shooter. If you know something different, I'd be happy to hear it.

• ASHTON
  "And a shot from there (real quick, while the cops were looking the other way) drove Kennedy's head...down."
  

If JFK happened to be sliding down in his seat, slightly forward and to his left toward Jackie, as it appears to me. The force of the impact of a shot gotten off to his right front temple would've driven his head down, for an instant (at impact), and back up and to the left, posteriorly, as the contents of the right hemisphere of his brain were ejected [anteriorly, posteriorly, vertically, and laterally, thus lightening the load of his skull, since it was now half gone.

I believe this is nonsense, and I've demonstrated why I believe it is (see also my last message, above, to Bill Miller). More on this, and why I think it is, in a moment...

The "cops" were not looking the other way. They were more than likely pulling the trigger.

And zooming in to see what the actual shot was:

Good luck.

And just as a reality check, here is what Bowers or anybody in the train tower would have been able to see in that direction:

It's a little difficult to see, but that shows the two cops, the two men who were near them at all relevant times, and at least three railroad workers who were on the overpass at all relevant times.

I dunno. You really believe a shot came from there, bless your heart. All I'm doing is trying to bring some common sense to bear on all these shooting scenarios that get flung around like rice at a wedding.

I don't claim to be an expert, just a student, here.

So am I. But on the subject of "experts" all over this case, let me turn on pure opinion mode for a moment.

I'm rapidly coming to a personal conviction that the majority of "experts" in this case are experts primarily in disinformation, and that one of the most fertile areas of disinformation fertilizer that has been dumped all over the research community in loads measured in tons is the "front shot" scenarios that have countless thousands running all over Dealey Plaza peering under every bush like kids on an Easter Egg hunt where no Easter Eggs have been hidden, and myopically peering at every square inch available images searching in endless vain for a "shooter" from the "grassy knoll" or anywhere "in front."

My one unvarying rule in even approaching anything that even smells faintly of CIA (or any intelligence cult) is this:

They always play both sides of the game.

So bear with me a moment, even hypothetically, to explore possible ramifications of that fundamental as applied to this case, particularly the location of shooters:

• A. If the CIA did the deed and set up Lee Harvey Oswald as a patsy, and set up that patsy in the 6th floor of the TSBD (behind the motorcade at time of shooting), the consideration of possible post-assassination forensics and medical evidence argue for their having set up that patsy and the phony "sniper's nest" in a location approximating in some way the location of where their actual shooter would have been placed, meaning somewhere from behind the motorcade. The CIA would populate the Warren Commission sufficiently to falsely "sell" this patsy location (after they had murdered the patsy), however absurd the "findings."
  B. On the same principle, the CIA would also have an extreme vested interest in creating many controversial and unprovable "theories" of shooters shooting from the direct opposite direction—meaning from in front.
  C. The CIA would insinuate into the research community, and into any out-of-control investigation (such as Garrison) "experts" to promote and "support" theories that the shot or shots came from the direct opposite of where their shooter actually had been. The CIA would want to flood the literature with just such arguments (however absurd), presented with equal force to the equally absurd Warren Commission "finding." This is the perfect psy-op: to have TWO COMPLETELY FALSE dichotomies endlessly at war, neither of them even considering the TRUTH. I cannot stress enough that this creates the perfect psy-op: two EQUALLY FALSE positions to be endlessly at war. Naturally, neither of them EVER can be proved or disproved, because both are FALSE.
  D. By successfully creating completely conflicting (and FALSE) dichotomies, and supplying enough "evidence" to keep these opposite camps of theories in almost perfect equalibrium and in constant forment and argument, CIA has infinite protection from any actual solution to the case.
  

And I believe that is exactly the current situation. Precisely. I believe that the research community argues endlessly over essentially two equally impossible scenarios—BOTH THE WORK PRODUCT OF CIA DISINFORMATION—and that no one yet has broken sufficiently out of these CIA-created molds to find the truth.

But, that one in the frames you've taken the time to outline the heads [and, I thank you for doing so], did not originate from the Daltex Building.

I quite agree. I've "looked" through enough of the DalTex building windows to find enough problems with them as a shooting location that I've more or less eliminated it (although there are a few locations that might be exceptions, though...well, "long shots").

That's why I haven't suggested a shot coming from the DalTex building.

I've also looked at every proposed outdoor "shooter location" that I've been able to scrape up. So far every one of them looks so burdened with potential liabilities as to be downright ludicrous as any carefully planned assassin's lair. To me. And no, I didn't go into the study of them with that viewpoint. I looked, and I looked, and I looked, and the more I looked, the more absurd these "theories" became to me.

And regardless all of that: I ain't scared of you.

Ashton

The simple rule of physics that I am utilizing...

Bilgewater. You have clubbed physics over the head and thrown it down the cellar stairs and barred the door. You have rewritten physics from Newton forward, and have managed to set it back by centuries in the effort. You posit a "theory" based on "physics" that only could have come from an alternate universe, and order people to ignore the evidence of their own eyes in favor of adopting your oh-so-superior (invariably) understanding of Counter Earth, where a .0000000000001 degree of camera rotation in a 40th of a second magically nullifies all mere human fancies about the laws of inertia of bodies in motion and at rest.

when the bullet hit him from the front - the head rocked forward while the shoulder was driven backwards

• Bang-bang, Miller's Magic Bullet came down on his head.
  Bang-bang, Miller's Magic Bullet made sure he was dead. Whoa-o-whoa-o-whoa-o-whoa!
  

It's a damned pity that when hundreds of thousands or teeming millions of your unwashed, uneducated, uninformed, ignorant, common inferiors look with their inferior eyeballs, they are deceived into believing that JFK's head and body follow exactly the expected motions dictated by pedestrian, boring, unfantacized Earth physics for his having been hit with a plain old projectile from behind, since his shoulders and torso patently don't show even the most miniscule rearward motion, and in fact clearly remain almost static at Z313 (as the head goes forward). The shoulders and torso, having more mass, and being already clenched, follow, moving forward at Z314.

The shoulders and torso are still in that forward position at Z315—which is the first frame where the torso begins to twist up and back:

The outline of the head and torso from Z312 is there, remaining unchanged, superimposed over Z313, Z314, and Z315. There is not the least rearward motion of the shoulder and torso. Zilch. None. The only change of position of the torso and shoulders in Z314 and Z315 is forward. It is evident to a blind horse—at least one not from an alternate universe where water runs uphill and logic only ever runs in infinite tail-chasing circles.

thus meaning a shot hit JFK from the front.

Well... Well.... There, there. Bill. Don't get upset, now. Don't go off on me, okay? But before you tell everybody again about the Magnificent Marvelous and Magical Metaphysical Mannerisms of Miller's Magic Bullet, I regret having to point out that you've weaseled on where this purported Miller's Magic Bullet came from—exactly as I predicted with uncanny, terrifying accuracy when I started the Weasel Watch countdown.

Where, Bill? That's the question. Where was the magic shooter with the magic rifle that fired Miiller's Magic Bullet? It didn't rain down from the sky, like some Biblical plague of one bullet, did it? Posting another ten thousand bold-faced words of assertion for the existence of a Magic Bullet isn't going to stop the Weasel Watch from ticking, and it's going to go right on ticking, inexorably, while you dodge and evade this vital question:

WHERE "in the front" did Miller's Magic Bullet come from, traveling on "a downward trajectory"?

That's your claim. But Miller's Magic Bullet couldn't have materialized out of thin air, like Mister Mxyzptlk popping in from the fifth dimension, just at the propitious instant to slam JFK's head "down," now, could it? Even you, at the most extreme fever pitch of your pitch, wouldn't try to put that past anybody. Would you?

So where was the shooter of this Miller Magic Bullet? You can't have a Miller Magic Bullet without a trajectory, and you can't have a trajectory without a point of origin for said (purported) trajectory, so where was the shooter?

If you don't get an immediate answer, allow me to suggest that you use your own proposed test: sit in a chair in the attitude of JFK at the time of the head shot, and have somebody hit you in the head until an answer presents itself.

Meanwhile, the Weasel Watch is still tick-tick-ticking, waiting for your answer. How long will you weasel?

Ashton Gray

I am talking about the initial shockwave that drives the President's right shoulder rearward at the same instant that his head rocks forward.

Snakefeathers. Hooey. Flobbergobber. Gombligernicampoikananity.

The shoulder does not go "rearward" when his head slams forward. At all. The only "rearwardness" in evidence comes in these giant zeppelin loads of 100% pure hootus that you manufacture around the clock, always based on "evidence" that isn't, and that can only, and inevitably does, result in page after page after page after page after page after page of just this kind of barking mad tail chasing that is your stock in trade.

An example of this particulr occurrence could be compared to a lunar eclipse where the sun (Jackie) gets blocked out by the moon...

The shoulder doesn't go "rearward" when the head slams forward at Z313. Period. It doesn't happen. So how many more forum pages do you plan to cover with this endless supply of offal, patiently, endlessly, inexhaustibly explaining to all of us morons that we're all nuts because we can't see your private hallucinations? (Even though they'd get kicked out of any self-respecting opium den.)

JFK's head goes forward and his shoulder is driven backwards.

No, his shoulder is not driven backwards when his head slams forward. Anybody who looks can plainly see that it isn't. Now what? Gonna' say it again? Gonna' keep repeating it?

what it boiled down to was the instantaneous absorbtion of the initial shockwave as it passed through the President's body from a bullet hitting the top portion of JFK's head on a downward trajectory from the front.

But even Magic Bullets have to some from somewhere. So tell us all exactly where Miller's Magic Bullet with reverse physics came from. Exactly where "in the front" was the magic gun that shot this magic bullet? I'm going to set up this alleged "downward trajectory" from the precise point you tell me this magic gun was, and I'm going to put all your bloviating about Miller's Magic Bullet to the test.

Where was it shot from? Exactly. (I'm going to start my Weasel Watch now. You can start weaseling any time.)

I hope these examples have offered a better insight into what I have been saying for the past several years.

No, they didn't. They never do. That's why you've been saying them—endlessly, over and over and over and over and over and over, page after page after page after page after page—"for the past several years."

And how much closer to the truth has it moved anybody? Huh?

The Weasel Watch is tick-tick-ticking...

Ashton

Having discovered in a most unlikely way a possible line of fire for the head shot (discussed and illustrated a few messages earlier in this thread) leading to a top floor window of the County Records building, I decided to work back from this possible location and assess its likelihood as a shooting location for any earlier shots.

I decided to consider the back wound. I looked at locations marked on various Dealey Plaza schematics for the position of the limo and JFK at the time of the back wound, which all seem to be estimated locations taken from testimony. After some trial in placing the limo in the marked positions, I wound up settling for placing it a bit farther back, where it is on a line from Zapruder through the Stemmons Freeway sign. For reasons I'm not going to go into here, I currently believe hypothetically that the back wound happened as or very shortly after the limo went behind the freeway sign in the Zapruder footage, and the impact trauma of that is what JFK was reacting to as he hunched foward when the limo was emerging from behind the sign.

Working on that hypothesis, I set the limo up in a location I thought was approximately correct for the back wound and looked at it from the same top floor County Records window:

I continue to be impressed at what a masterful view this location has of nearly all of the center lane of Elm Street, and at the clear shooting angles. Attempting to think like plotting, cold-blooded murderers planning an assassination months in advance isn't something that comes easy. But if it was in fact a premeditated act of co-conspirators and there was secured access to such a secluded location, there seems to be much to recommend it.

Zooming in on the limo and JFK:

This view called to mind at once the evidence of record that the back shot was found to be at an angle and shallow—which, as I understand it, likely would not have been fatal, however much the impact must have stunned the man. I haven't taken this further and am presenting it here to open it for discussion. I'm particularly interested in further understanding of whether the angle of entrance might support or tend to negate a shot from this location.

Ashton

What I'm seeing is JFK's body slipping down with his hands slipping away from his throat, elbows down, at this point, as the fatal shot impacts his skull at the right temporal/parietal region, driving his head further down

The idee fixé is the consummate tyrant.

That shot appears to have come from the area on the knoll to the right, over by the underpass. But, that's JMHO.

Where the two policemen were stationed.

And a shot from there (real quick, while the cops were looking the other way) drove Kennedy's head...down.

Glad you're on the case.

Ashton

Bill, this movie is frame 312-313 in 10% opacity increments.

I still don't see a distinction between blurring and shoulder movement.

Anyone else?

If you figure out what he's talking about...

Well, never mind: you won't.

Sorry; as you were. Continue.

Ashton

ASHTON:

"And no other thing or person in the moving vehicle exhibits anything even remotely close to the violent sudden forward jerk of John F. Kennedy's head as the right front portion of his forehead explodes outward, to the front."

What the hell is that suppose to mean??? ..."explodes outward, toward the front."

Am I missing something, here?

It would seem.

Hi Terry. Merry Christmas.

Let's dissect the phrase you're having trouble with.

• EXPLODE: to burst, fly into pieces, or break up violently; to burst forth violently.
  OUTWARD: proceeding or directed toward the outside or exterior, or away from a central point (see also "EXPLODE," above)
  FRONT: the foremost part or surface of anything; the part or side of anything that faces forward
  FORWARD: toward the front; toward the bow or front of a vessel or aircraft; situated in the front or forepart; lying ahead or to the front
  

So "what the hell" that statement means is that the FRONT of JFK'S head (that's the face side), above the right eye (which is on the FRONT of the head) EXPLODES (bursts open, bursts forth violently) OUTWARD (away from a central point, such as, e.g., the center of the skull) and in bursting OUTWARD does so TOWARD THE FRONT, meaning in the direction the limo is facing and traveling, in the direction that JFK facing. That OUTWARD BURSTING of the FRONT of the skull happens to take place just as JFK's head jerks FORWARD (toward the FRONT) violently at Zapruder 313.

Just in case you still are having difficulty with that, I've done yet another anim for you to study to see if you possibly can make out visually what I have just described carefully and in detail, and this time I've solidly colored in the space indicating the distance the head travels in one frame, from Z312 to Z313 (including this time the sudden change in position of the right ear), and remains so slammed forward through Z314, where brain matter is seen having flown FORWARD out through the exploded opening in the FRONT of the skull. I've now circled that ejecta and drawn in lines indicating its apparent (obvious) path of travel OUTWARD through FRONT of the skull. So here all that is. The "stairstepping" seen at the bottom part and side of the image in several of the frames is because I have "stabilized" this anim, aligning all the images on the curb in the background and on the trailing edge of the "rollbar" metal piece that goes across the limo:

In this anim, I've attempted also to address a couple of things several others, I believe, brought up earlier in the discussion:

• 1. Outlining other occupants and items in the limo to compare their relatively static attitudes during the frames where JFK's head slams violently forward, and,
  2. Using Zapruder stills other than the ones I used in the first go-'round that I had gotten off the internet somewhere, and which obviously somebody had filled in with green on the bottom on some of the frames, I guess to compensate for however they cropped and aligned the various frames. Anyway, it was creating confusion or question, and I only had used them because they were handy and zoomed in on the head shot.
  

And at this point if you—or anybody in the world—still cannot see what I have described, and what I have carefully put into clear, inarguable visual form, and cannot see the large flap of skull that has been blown OUTWARD toward the FRONT after the head slams forward, I am definitely the wrong person to be talking to about it: I've never even dabbled in opthamology, or in cures for severe chronic denial.

Ashton

Occam's Razor -- Who's the likeliest to regard assassination as a means to resolve conflict?

I'm sorry; maybe it's the egg nog. But a call to Occam's Razor by someone positing a phantom military invasion of Cuba that never happened as a "motive" for the assassination really gave me a persistent case of the giggles.

Ho-ho-ho.

Ashton

I am not placing the following in necessarily their order of occurrence.

And for some reason you persist in posting the same off-topic dispersal into the Head Wound thread.

You're not willfully trying to distract from the topic are you? It's because you just don't know any better, am I right?

Ashton

I am not placing the following in necessarily their order of occurrence.

Or, more importantly, in a thread where they are on-topic.

Ashton Gray

I have had an eerie night on the eve of Christmas eve.

Foolishly, I allowed my thoughts to stray to the ejecta that is visible in Zapruder frame 314 (discussed at some length recently in the thread The Head Wound Explained).

Without trying (and preferring not to), I thought the thought that if something representing that ejecta of matter from JFK's head could be placed more or less reasonably in 3D space, it might be used as a plotted point that if connected with another plotted point at the apparent head wound in the Zapruder film (on the right front of JFK's head) would create a line theoretically leading back— Well, it very well could lead back to the head wound shooter location.

Unable to make this spectre leave my house (like some damnable ghost of Christmas past), I created a simple cube to represent the ejecta. I used a cube so I could angle one edge toward the apparent head wound location, then use two points on that edge to create a construction line back through the apparent head wound opening. Creating the "ejecta" cube and placing it as well as I could in the 3D space came out like this:

Aside: The surreal quality of the image itself has its own creepiness, but you would have had to be here to experience the real creep show: the "spectators" I have placed in the model are 2D images set to always face the viewer, giving the illusion of 3Dness while conserving processor overhead. So the entire time I was working to place this "ejecta" cube, as I turned the view to different angles and manipulated the cube in space, no matter where I was viewing or what I was doing, the "spectators" always followed with their eyes. I finally had to turn that layer of the model off.

The next thing to do was to create a construction line from the "ejecta" back through JFK's head. Once I felt the ejecta stand-in was placed and aligned according to my best possible estimates from the available reference, with the top near edge pointing to the apparent head wound, I created a "construction line" along its edge, which took only a moment. Then there was nothing left to do but take a deep breath and see where it led. I took several deep breaths. Then I rotated the "camera" to sight along its path (which I've made red in this next image). And with ever-growing creep I found this:

It went straight into a top window of the County Records building.

Some may be aware (even painfully aware) of my interest in the County Courts building, next door and connected to the County Records building. But this was new. I had not even made the "windows" in the County Records building transparent. I quickly rectified that with the window the line was pointing to, then went around through the back of the "building" to look down on the motorcade:

I discovered that there were absolutely no impediments to a shot. More than that, there clearly was ample space to have tracked the limo and taken shots earlier than the head shot—and to take later shots, if necessary, before the limo could reach the tunnels of the railroad bridge.

I used the construction line I had made to truck the view down its path toward the head to see what it looked like close up:

I wondered how this location compared to the 6th floor "sniper's nest" window of the Texas School Book Depository. Here's what it looks like:

It seems that it would be roughly on a level to an 8th floor if the TSBD had one.

As one final curiosity I measured the distance from the County Records building window to JFK's head, and from the TSBD 6th floor window to JFK's head. The County Records window is about 1.092xxx times as far as the TSBD 6th floor window. In other words, approximately the same distance.

And I felt it incumbent on me to present this. And with that, I think I'm going to shut this down for a while now, kick all the ghosts out, and have myself a merry little Christmas. I hope that all of you do, as well.

Ashton

Ash any chance of replying in the CIA thread it would make a nice crimbo present to know your specific views.

Absolutely, Gary, and I have been working on it. There seems to have been an oversight, though, on the day I was born, because I was only issued one body. Even working it 'round the clock and beating nearly to death with work doesn't seem to get everything done, and I have to set some kind of stupid priorities. The moment small cracks opened in the time continuum, I was hell-bent to catch up on some of the backlogged requests on the model (over in yet another thread) and it is pretty time-intensive. But I'll be there...

Ashton

It seems to me, at least on superficial review, that we're rapidly running out of non-building locations for a shooter.

If memory serves me correctly, though, the "Plumlee Shooter" location would have been closer to the railroad bridge and have more elevation.

Hey Frank you (and Bill Grote) are right about the hidey-hole-by-the-overpass/underpass/railroad-bridge suggested possible shooter location from Plumlee. I had done a view from there earlier in this thread, so in the latest round was trying to get the other Plumlee-suggested possible south knoll shooter location (as I understood it), which had been indicated as being somewhere between the railroad bridge and Plumlee's location.

Given that I've recently done some tweaks to the model, though, I revisited the location you've both described, and here it is for what it's worth. First the long view (in which I forgot to turn on the layer with the motorcycle cops and other vehicles, but they're in the next image, the close-up):

As with the view I did from the pergola for John Dolva, I created a "construction line" from there to JFK to put the "camera" on so I could move it on that line and approach close to the limo (bullet's-eye view). Here's what I get:

I keep reminding all of the caveats of possible inaccuracies in the model. At the same time I keep going and looking from these proposed locations, and I have to think the model would have to be egregiously inaccurate indeed to convert them into viable, premeditated shooting locations. But that's just how I see it.

Any I've missed?

Ashton

John, you're getting a twofer response in this one message.

free your mind from the turgid miasma of a shot from the front or back

Okay: I am as Ellen DeGeneres contemplating argyle socks. Ommmmmmmmm... (Does this mean I'm now a lesbian trapped in a man's body?)

Ashton, that's excellent. Remember that the shot happened a moment before 313 and that Jackie and John, were like in this image at that time.

John Dolva's montage from his message:

Jackie is still not in line and the area is just clear of spectators. Ideal.

Yes, you put the Zapruder angle of the Kennedys correctly into your montage, but in the 3D model there's a problem with that (all standing caveats for the model in full force and effect).

Here is the model's Zapruder view of the head shot moment, and it seems to align with the JFK-Jacquie images in your montage:

That's the good news. But then here is a new more refined view of the Pergola Man's angle on the exact same scene:

That faint dotted line is a construction line I created from the location at the Pergola you've shown to JFK so I could place the "camera" right on it. I realize it doesn't go exactly through the head, but the view to the head on that line isn't a significant deviation.

I'm trying here.

Robin, thank's for all the images...

Ditto, with feeling. (Apologies to Terry for the plagiarism. )

This perhaps explains why the limo braked . The shot is so close that Greer hears it almost instantly and as his foot is probably hovering over the brake pedal, he instantly reacts and the forward tilt of Kennedy's head seen in 313 occurs.

Horse puckey.

Not a single other physicality in the limo exhibits the abrupt forward motion of JFK's head at Z313, and the motion is primarily from the neck, with comparatively minimal forward motion of his torso.

Say "Ommmmmmmm...." Free your mind of any such physics-exempt metaphysical braking, Grasshopper.

Ashton

For Peter, Jack, and anyone else interested:

Here are three Plumlee related images from the 3D model based on my best understanding of the information in this thread.

First, from the purported Plumlee location near the steps on the south knoll:

Assuming there had been a Lee Harvey Oswald busy pumping off three shots from the sixth floor window (which there wasn't), how Plumlee could have avoided seeing the activity and flash up there is something for mystics to ponder.

Now here is a view from as close as I can figure a place for the purported south knoll shooter (following Plumlee's nose for gunpowder smells), who I believe also would have been behind a picket fence with the shrubs outside it, but I don't have time to put them in:

Not that it matters as far as I'm concerned: here is a close-up on the limo from that angle:

I would have put in a view from a shooter whose bullets would have flown over Plumlee's head, but so far I haven't built a sky hook into the model, and that's the only way a shooter could have gotten elevated over Plumlee's head where he claims he was standing.

Ashton

Hi Bernice.

I've been being chased by wild and rabid hounds of deadlines and have had no time to get back into the model at all in the past week or so (I can't remember when last), but I've carved out a few minutes this weekend to add the new limo model someone sent to me, and because your concerns about the original Elm sewer drain shot I set up have been weighing on my mind, I went back to it.

I've really tried to figure out a way from that the head shot could have come from that location, and I'm sorry to report that I've thrown in the towel on it. One problem that was in the original set-up I did from there is that I had the "Connally" figure sitting upright, and Connally was lying back against his wife by the time of the headshot. But once the more correctly modeled limo was in the scene, even with Connally out of the way, things seemed to get worse, not better. Here's all I could come up with:

It appears that the shot would have had to through the windshield and perilously close to the SS "shotgun" guy. I may have the JFK figure now leaning too far to his left, but even if I bring him back to his right (screen left), then there are the frames of the windshield and the little side window, and the "roll bar" (which is pretty much invisible in this image—sorry). Maybe a shooter could have split the seam between the windshield and the side window. If so I consider it the unluckiest luckiest shot possibly in history.

I wish I had something else to report on this location, but unless someone can tell me where I've gone wrong on it I don't know where to take it.

Ashton

John, I've only now found a few minutes to get the (incomplete, but better) new limo into the 3D model, to get the pergolas set into the landscape so I think they are right, and try to set up the headshot from the place it seems you were suggesting. I got somewhat confused because at first you seemed to be indicating the 2nd section in the curve of the north pergola breezeway away from the southwest shelter, then in more recent images you seem to be indicating the 3rd section in the curve of the breezeway. I've set a shot up from the latter, for whatever it's worth, which may be far less than the price of admission:

I can't seem to finesse the angle in any way that would tend toward any expectations of keeping Jacquie's face intact. I tried.

Ashton

This is an old Iowa State Police Police Officers hat with the badge still attached. It is very similar.

It overlays exactly. It is just an older design year, likely 50's.

Well what does everyone think?

Here is an enhancement of what you posted, treated with Photoshop's Shadows and Highlights filter, Levels, then Smart Sharpen.

The image was too low resolution to be able to bring out any more detail than this on the original (center) image, but I think it has brought out sufficiently more to make it worth posting:

Ashton

I've had enough tea. Thanks for the party.

He was hit by 15 shots from the front, all into the same hole in the head. Except, of course, for the throat shot.

His head did not go forward, but sideways in a mobius circle—like Linda Blair on crack.

All 15 outdoor shooters (all on the grassy knoll) were invisible policemen who went up in the rapture.

And God bless us everyone.

Ashton Gray

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

Terry, how can we coax you out of your shell?

Ashton

Then his upper body moves violently backwards /sideways or both in succeeding frames.

A great force has to move him this way.

Do you mean that it has to be a great external force?

If we leave out the theory of 2 simultaneous bullets for a moment, would the car accelerating be the only other moving force

to create Jack's backward movement?

I'm going to state here what seems extremely simple to me, and entirely consistent with what I see: a shot from the rear and somewhat to the left goes through JFK's skull, slamming his head forward, blowing out the right front of his skull, sending ejecta forward and downward.

The last autonomic response of the hopelessly compromised nervous system is to resist the forward and downward thrust, convulsing the muscles to counter that momentum, causing the torso to jerk back and up—at which point all motor controls have been lost, the right arm flopping upward as a result of the now backward momentum, the torso continuing the direction of instantaneously initiated resistance until it falls to rest.

I'm including here, inline, an even longer anim set at .02 second intervals between frames. It's large. I don't know if it will make things difficult in the forum, and if so I may have to convert it to a .mov so it's a separate attachement. I haven't put graphics over it, but what I described above is exactly what I see. I have seen and heard nothing that convinces me that any external force at all was needed to create the backward motion, nor have I seen or heard any description of an external force that could, as an external force to the head, cause any such extreme motion of the entire torso.

That isn't to say I won't. But so far I haven't. Here's the anim:

Ashton

Dallas Police Officer Bobby Hargis was on a motorcycle behind and to the left of Mrs. Kennedy when the head shot occurred. He was splattered with blood and brain tissue. This also indicates a shot from the front and to the right.

Hmmm. Well, I'm a bit more simple minded. I observe the motorcade moving in a direction that necessarily would carry Officer Hargis into a cloud of relatively lightweight particles suddenly dispersing into the air in many directions—particularly on a day with wind (which seems to be uniformly left out of the equation). It's also my understanding from the record that Officer Hargis wasn't the only one in the area splattered with blood and brain tissue.

And again we are back to the duality of the ejecta question. You seem to have argued successfully already that Hargis very well could have been hit with ejecta caused by a shot from behind.

Officer B. J. Martin was the other motorcyclist splattered with blood and brain tissue. As Josiah Thompson writes:

Officer Martin's partner, riding in the inboard cycle, was even more splattered. "It seemed like his head exploded," testified Officer Bobby W. Hargis, "and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of bloody water." (6H294) This debris hit Officer Hargis with such force that he told reporters the next day, "I thought at first I might have been hit." The splash of debris established in his mind the idea that the shot came from the right front.

...In his book Six Seconds in Dallas, Thompson discusses the head shots in detail:

THE DOUBLE MOVEMENT

........With the help of Bill Hoffman, a bright young physicist, and the use of a dissecting microscope, I was able to measure with great accuracy the movement of the President's head. After holding steady for some twelve frames, it is suddenly driven forward between frames 312 and 313. Amazingly, in the very next frame, 314, it is already moving backward, a movement it continues in succeeding frames until the President's shoulders strike the seat cushion at Z321. ...

After a study of the eyewitness reports and rejecting other possible causes for the above described movements, Thompson goes on to conclude that the President was hit by two shots at almost the same instant. It is worth noting that Thompson arrived at these conclusions 40 years ago. Whether or not he has changed his mind over the passing years, I don't know.

Thanks for all the info you posted, Michael.

Thompson and Hoffman very astutely observed the obvious about the head movement from Z312 to Z313—importantly, "after holding steady for some twelve frames." It's there. It's an instantaneous forward thrust. It's in plain view. It's inarguable. It is anomalous to all other motion of the limo and any of its occupants. And I daresay it is impossible without external force traveling from somewhere in the rear of the limo toward the front of the limo, slamming the head forward that suddenly.

With the benefit of the stabilization techniques developed by John Dolva, I tend to disagree about the head having started its backward motion at Z314; if it does, and their microscopic analysis detected it, it must be in very tiny degrees indeed, but then I was working with fairly low resolution.

Ashton

I have not viewed the film in some time and have never seen it where it did not upset me greatly. I think it would be upsetting for me to view anyone's muder on film. Seeing any form of pain is distressing to me. Worse for me is that he was a president I truly loved. Pretty damn rare. In fact he's the only one I can say this of.

I understand the sentiment completely. None of this is very easy for me, either. It is gore. It is murder most foul. It is difficult to confront. But for me, it just has to be faced.

I recognize and respect that you do not follow the crowd and I am always open to be shown if I am wrong.

But, that said, it was this very backward motion that permitted the earliest critics to see that the WC's conclusions of three shots, from behind by LHO were so misguided.

Assuming for the moment, just for the sake of argument, that the answer to the question of CIA involvement is "yes," then the next assumption has to be—for the informed—that the operation had many layers, many blinds, and many misdirections.

Continuing this paradigm, then it can only be expected that the founder of the CIA—John J. McCloy—and the Patron Saint of CIA—malicious creator of MKULTRA Allen Dulles—would be seated smilingly on the Warren Commission with knives in the backs of commission members. And so it was.

As for the WC "findings" <SPIT!>, I've said before, I'll say again, that if the CIA committed the crime, and if they set up Oswald as a patsy, they set it up to be claimed to have come from the sixth floor window of the TSBD because it was close enough to the truth that they could "sell" it, while also peddling enough controversy to keep it endlessly in foment.

To say that Kennedy's head slams forward as his brains fly out the front of his head is not to say that Lee Harvey Oswald shot the fatal shot, or to say that it came from the sixth floor of the TSBD. Not remotely.

It is to say that the fatal head shot very well may have come from somewhere behind. That's all.

And if it did, then it further is to say that the real perpetrators were smart enough to set their patsy up and plant a gun in a location that had some similarity to where the actual shots came from.

Really, would they do it any other way if they were clever murderers? I'm not suggesting "sane"—just clever as murderers. Would it make even any criminal sense to plot a murder in broad daylight and set up a patsy and plant a gun in the opposite direction from where the actual shots came?

While confronting the movie of the act is bad enough, even worse is trying to think like the scum who did it.

Bottom line, he was killed by the highest level of our government and we have been lied to by this government and the press and our educational insititutions our whole lives. On this we agree.

I think you might be onto something.

Ashton

By the way, since you often suggest that somene initiate a thread regarding the absence of a wound in JFK's throat.....I suggest that you do so. If for nothing more than laughs.

Again you seem to have trouble understanding what I've written in plain English. It seems to be a pattern.

I don't start threads about fictions or "absences." If someone wants to make an assertion in a separate thread that a "throat wound" was present, I'll be happy to discuss it with them, just as I was happy to shred the bizarre CIA fiction of the so-called "Diem cables" in the Watergate forum. (By the way: Pat Speer still, after 7 forum pages in that thread, hasn't, won't, can't answer the simple central question: how many of the alleged "forged cables" does he claim there were. Still sitting there waiting him to answer. Would you like to go take a crack at it? I'd enjoy it very much.)

Meanwhile, there's a sure cure for your not understanding what I write: don't read it.

Ashton