Chris Davidson

Denis, Let me put any doubts to rest. chris

Denis, Take a look at the Bell frame from post 1. That's a backside view of the wall. chris

The background photo is a frame from the documentary "Murder in Dealy Plaza". It was filmed from Dorman's location in a recreation. The inset is a frame from Dorman's movie. Registering the two frames with the wall in alignment should give you a better understanding of the alterationist "holes in the wall fiasco". Since it was a nice SUNNY day with the sun behind Rosemary Willis, I see no reason why those wall holes do not appear next to her. Even in the recreation documentary, on what looks like a cloudy day, the wall holes are visable. chris

The red arrow points to the same gentleman ON the wall from Dorman and Bell. Look at the holes in the wall in each photo, in relation to the gentleman on the wall. Or in this case, the holes NOT in the wall That's the easiest proof of alteration I can supply. chris

Chris, Your Bell GIF ends one or two seconds before the Dorman frame, so no, they don’t match. Once you get them lined up properly, everything will match. As for your other question about the two cameras views not matching, the simple answer is that they were machined differently, which is why most projectors in those days had a Frame adjustment to compensate. Gary Mack Gary, Bell is northwest of conductor man and wall-man. Or, as he faces them, Bell is on their left side. Wall-man is on conductor man's left side in Bell. In Dorman, conductor man is farther downhill. You can use the sidewalk expansion joint/crack (red arrows) as the marker. If I'm Bell and conductor man is farther downhill than wall-man is, then conductor man should be on the left side of wall-man in Bell. In other words, if I'm Bell and I was filming directly behind wall-man, conductor man should appear on the left of him, which will match what is shown in Dorman. The Bell gif and Dorman frame from the previous post comparison do match, if you use the LADY in front of Rosemary Willis as your marker in both mediums. In fact, if what you are saying was valid, we should see conductor man waving in Bell, which would match my previous shadow gif posting of conductor man from Dorman. We don't, and there is a reason. This just adds more support to the Towner camera filming at it's true capability of 16-18 FPS and not the Myer's sync of 23-24 FPS, which eliminates 2-3 seconds of time. It's why the waving shadow motion of conductor man is too fast. It's why the Willis reflection is wrong. It's why the lady in orange from Z doesn't sync. It's why the speed of the limo according to the WC math and the Z film don't match. Remember frames 161-166 and the distance traveled. Not to difficult to figure out. Not sure what you are referring to with regards to the camera angles. If you are speaking to the Dorman/Z frame comparison, what does that have to do with 8mm film and the relationship of sprocketholes to main frame? chris

Don, Something similar to this view, I believe. chris

Since I've been discussing reflections, and shadows would be a similar interest, perhaps you can test this on a sunny day for yourself. Can I have my arm extended, waving to the president and within 1/3 of a second have my arms crossed again? (Bottom Right) Would my arm shadow appear circular as I bring it in to a folding position? Follow the waving shadow. Then, if you come to the conclusion that you can, ask yourself how 2 (8mm) films can have sprocket holes and frame width's that match, yet the vertical image within the frames do not. chris

Got it Lee. Here's Muchmore again using a more universal encoder, but more image degradation. If your using Quicktime try viewing it at twice the size, also. chris P.S. Looks like you have a fairly nice copy of Hughes to work from.

Don/Lee Too bad the quality of the films (as usual) suck. I created this stabilization of the County Records Building from Muchmore awhile back. Did it with Hughes also, but the angle cuts down alot of the movement. chris

More. chris

Some more. chris

I can't get the movies to play Chris. I keep getting a " Quicktime requires new software error " Thanks Anyway Duncan Duncan, Does this work for you? Less quality. chris

If it helps. chris

Fence stabilized, if it helps. chris

This is from the Z film. Watch the lady in orange coming around the Elm St. corner towards Betzner. Where is Rosemary Willis? Remember their orientation from the previous post. I guess the lady in orange did 2 sprints towards Betzner in a matter of say 10 seconds. Not likely!!! Just a little out of sequence with that Z film. Ya think. Probably why the shadow in the Willis photo is not his. Probably why the Towner camera needs to film at 24 FPS instead of its true capability of 16 FPS. And so on, and so on, and so on. Rate x Time = Distance chris

Maybe this will help. The photo is from Dormans movie. The red arrows point to Rosemary Willis and a lady in a orange top/red shoes who has just finished her RUN towards Betzner, who is wearing all white. Keep the ladies orientation to each other in mind. The movie is from Bell. I stabilized the wall, so you can see the activity in the lower right corner. I would say that the Dorman photo and Bell movie match. In Bell, look for Rosemary's white hood as she passes Betzner and the lady in orange as she approaches Betzner. chris P.S. Continue to next post.

Is the woman in black on Willis' left Mrs. Willis? The reason I ask is that it appears to me that she drops a handkerchief right around the time of Rosemary Willis headsnap. Steve Thomas Steve, I don't see anything dropping from either woman. Can you be more specific in specifying the location of the handkerchief? Since were talking about the Z film at this point in time, I guess that cowboy outfit (red arrows) was rather popular back in the day. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was the same guy. Love the animation. Might take a look at the woman in the brown skirt and light blue jean jacket walking towards/behind Willis. Left hand up to the ear and right hand to the mouth, as if she is in radio contact. Funny how she doesn't appear in the Dorman movie. chris

I'm in the middle of my photo as long as my photo has not been CROPPED. Why wouldn't Willis be in the middle of his photo? chris

Jack, that is about where his head would be. imo I put your red dot about where his head should be and the rightside arrow where his legs are. Don, the orientation of reflection shadow to lane divider matches Z, but that reflection shadow connects back to someone whose legs are spread apart. Another observation, Willis is a little further downhill from the limo when he takes the picture. The red dot and arrow I believe are indicative of his position as they are almost in line with Jack and Jackie. IOW, you would probably take a picture just as they were passing you by. chris

If I take a photograph, the camera lens will always end up as the center of my photo. Which means I (the picture taker) should always end up in the center of my photograph. Red arrows point to Willis' shadow in Z and the supposed reflection of Willis' shadow from his photo. #2 is the center of my photograph which should be Willis. Where is Willis' shadow reflection which should connect back to him? #1 has the longest and only reflective shadow running back to it. #1 has their legs spread apart so that longest reflective shadow does not belong to Willis who did not have his legs apart. Movie provided Yet, the shadow from Willis in Z, is the longest in the street. If I use the motorcycle reflections and #1 as endmarks from the Willis photo, and assume the spread legs belong to the lady (which they do not) then Willis' reflective shadow should appear between these two points. chris

Z-film.

Don, Would it be accurate to say Zapruder and Hudson were the same distance from Moorman? BTW, The red lines are the same length, spaced at 5 degree increments. thanks, chris

The show had several possible locations for Badge Man and they tested them ... thats how you get to see some of them. There ended up only being one location that matched the Badge Man figure and that subject had to be just behind the fence. The scientist who spoke in the show offered opinions based on inaccurate reference data such as the height of the wall at the corner and then used it to give inaccurate conclusions. These guys had never gone to Dealey Plaza, thus they didn't check to see if their data was even accurate.. I can only assume that they may be related to Duncan. Bill Miller So the program has a whole segment on the badgeman with the photogrammetrist (man with hat in previous clip) aligning Moorman's photo with his modern day setup. It then goes on to say that George (the photogrammetrist) has an actor placed precisely where the badgeman would have appeared in Moorman, which isn't behind the fence. And, immediately after the actor is put into place, they show a figure through George's camera who (I guess) is supposed to represent badgeman's position, which matches Moorman's photo. Would that be a fair representation of what you stated? No need to get into the scientist segment part of the program. chris

Bill, In the program, it appears Gary Mack is placing the gentleman in badgeman's position, according to the photographer. That spot appears to be in front of the fence (non-RR side), near the tree. Here is a brief clip from the show. Clip 2 is a comment from the photographer who states the badgeman's positioning is representative of someone behind the fence, yet they placed him in front of the fence(Clip1) to match Moorman's photo. Did he mean to say wall instead of fence??????? chris

Composite photo for reference. Left arrow points to person behind fence, taken at Moorman's position with a 35mm camera from the documentary "Murder in Dealy Plaza". Middle arrow points to Tony Cummings, from Bill's photo, cloned in. Right arrow points to gentleman who represents Badgeman's position (cloned in) according to the documentary "Beyond the Magic Bullet". Animation consists of the 3 photos for size/registration reference chris