Chris Davidson

This is not rocket science. I have seen this type of thing come up in nature films. For instance, film a horse walking at 16 fps and then at 24 fps and see which one is natural. Mack has said, 'Camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed.' I also know what Gary has said to you. So like I said ... you should post it so everything is on the table. Bill According to mfgr specs, no 8mm cameras run at 18 fps. They run at 16 fps, because that is the PROJECTOR RATE. Camera rate must coordinate with projector rate. That is why there is an American Standards Association. Jack Thanks Jack, I'm not sure they understand the theory of standards. chris And then, there are also those who in addition to not being able to read and understand witness statements (Altgens), as well as do comparative analaysis of photographic evidence (Altgens/CE900/WC Re-enactment photo), also can not grasp and understand the basic principle of mathmatical computation. It just so happens that MATH is accepted by the courts. All that one has to do is provide sufficient evidence to prove that the computations are correct. The WC Re-enactmey was COMPLETELY PHONY! Their own evidence proves it. The "Warren Report" special which aired back in 1967 tested (5 DIFFERENT) B/H 414PD's. Their results had those cameras running from between 15.3 - 20.7 FPS. So, besides Towner's camera, the Z camera is unable to obtain a speed of 24 FPS. A brief clip from that program. If you want to see how they tested it, email and I will link you to that part. Also, from Myer's PDF, the FBI results for the Z camera. chris

I watch where people post claiming 'alteration' by way of an assassination film that they have seen off of TV ... possibly it has too many frames ... perhaps it has film damage, but instead of checking first to find out what information is available about the original film, they start posting that they have discovered alteration affair. Bill Miller The Towner film has 160 frames. I extracted them and supplied a copy(in movie form playing at 15FPS) for those who were interested. What does it show. That Towner's camera DID NOT shoot at 24 FPS. So Myer's multiple film sync using the Z film as it's benchmark, is up in smoke. Someone who wants to know the truth would at least run physical speed tests on the cameras in question. Well, with the Sears Tower Varizoom Model 584.91250 Serial # 37774 I just obtained, I did just that. Guess what!! It should come as no surprise this camera DID NOT operate at 24FPS. 10 different speed tests of 1, 3 and 5 seconds with the camera on full wind yielded results of 16, 17 and 18 FPS. When broken down it was 16(3x) 17(5x) and 18(2x). It's real easy to come up with a FPS solution when using the Z FILM as a comparison marker with all other films. As I have pointed out previously, Z frames 1-132 at 18.3 FPS= 7.21 SEC Towner at 168 frames (Myer's includes 160+8 missing frames)= 168 at 23.3 FPS= 7.21 SEC No individual PHYSICAL testing was done on Towner's camera to prove it's 23.3 FPS speed used by Myer's is correct. There is a reason for that. A simple math and any camera's FPS rate can be plugged in to sync with Z's. Why not tell us what path the limo traveled(in the turn) from Houston onto Elm St. How long did it take to complete the turn? The SS was able to plot JFK's position within the limo from Houston St. all the way down Elm St. Guess what, it sure doesn't match what Myer's has provided and guess where the biggest discrepancy occurs. I've done my research and the evidence is overwhelming. Here's some footage for you. chris

Bill, No need to compare 2 Dorman frames. I'd much rather compare one to a frame I know is valid, from my camera. Here's another Dorman frame compared to mine. Sprocket holes aligned, problem with the heighth in Dorman. Why aren't the partial adjacent frames along with the main frame shown in Dorman? They show the sprocket holes, just as mine does along with the adjacent frames. What are they hiding? In case you missed that extra sprocket hole in the previous animation it's in the last frame of this one, between the top red lines. Interesting how it's close to the same heighth. chris

With this drawn in, it is approximately 61 feet from the "Towner to TSDB Corner" to the alignment of the front of the car in the position shown down Elm St. From that distance, one would have to subtract the distance from the front bumper of the Limo, back to JFK's position, in order to have the approximate JFK to JFK distance. Tom, It looks like you are right on target with your last post. I took it, along with the Myer's piece and composited them with a Google overhead. Sorry about the size for now. Your line of sight for Towner is dead on with Myer's which is the corner of the TSBD. Will work on the real distance traveled tomorrow. thanks chris P.S. This latest section of the plat you have provided, when sized to fit the full sized Drommer plat, still has the existing alignment problems that I pointed out previously.

It's truly amazing that anyone could sync a multiple of films with all the slicing/dicing and reframing occurring. Then again, I'm sure that's why it all occured. For instance, looks like the reframing/timing adjustments for Dorman started back near Main/Houston. Forgot to remove that extra sprocket hole. Suggestion: Place your cursor on the real sprocket holes from my film. chris

Tom, Remember the Drommer revision you warned me about, take a look at the red arrows which point to the non-matching curbline between Myer's work and the Drommer plat. The Houston St. curblines seem to match up fine, along with the wall, etc, etc. In regards to the mis-matched curbline span: Myer's has the limo in Towner traveling a distance of (yellow type) 40 ft. I believe it is actually closer to(my RED LINES) 70 FT. Part of the Revision?? thanks chris

Let's see, Now you're trying to lessen the time from 10 proven seconds to 8.9. Well Myers has it at 7 seconds, so you're still not close. His is supposed to be a frame to frame sync. Better come up with some more reasons why you can't get to that elusive 24 FPS. Still waiting for the physical proof. chris

The serial number of Zapruder's camera is AS13486, which means it was manufactured after the test camera Chris used; it is likely that Chris' older model ran at 16fps but the newer Zapruder camera, according to all tests by the FBI and Bell & Howell, had the new speed standard of 18fps. Furthermore, I fail to comprehend the significance of using a Zapruder camera to determine the speed of a Towner camera! While they were manufactured by the same company, Bell & Howell, there's no documentation for when they were manufactured and which one(s) were the latest versions with the new 18 fps speed standard. Let's try a little logic here. Towner's camera has the same frame speed settings as my B/H 414. The official documentation for the Towner camera shows it shoots at 16 FPS. I've supplied 2 examples that show it filmed at 16 FPS. 160 Total Frames - 10 Seconds of film = 16 FPS. No getting around that one. Other's tell stories about what they believe is true. Put that in front of a jury, and we know what the verdict is. Case Closed. chris

This will show that Towner's camera DID NOT shoot at 24 FPS. A movie is made from individual frames. If the limo was in constant forward motion while Towner was filming, every frame should show it. I extracted all limo moving frames from the version provided in "Murder in Dealy Plaza". All other frames removed were duplicate frames, which are generated for smoother viewing. When you extract only the moving frames, there are approx 160 +/- 1 or 2. The total movie plays for approx. 10 sec. 160 frames /10 sec = 16 FPS. A picture of Quicktime, after having finished playing the movie, is provided. I am also supplying the movie here: http://76.89.67.73:6900/48542/Towner_160_Frames.mov It is about 46 megs so be patient when downloading. I highly recommend using a movie player that will allow you to arrow forward 1 frame at a time, so you can count and see the constant limo movement in each and every frame. FOR NON-BELIEVERS I suggest looking at the movie properties as well. I have it playing at 15 FPS, which once again is the closest I can get to 16 FPS. The movie plays fine at 15 FPS. Dale Myers based his syncs on a film shot at 24 FPS for 7 seconds. approx. The actual Towner film is 16 FPS for 10 sec. approx. Neither includes the 8 missing frames. 3 second difference and counting. Once again, SAME DISTANCE TRAVELED, LESS TIME. Sound Familiar? chris

Thanks, Chris ... now do you recall if Zapruder's serial number is higher or lower than yours??? Bill Bill, I believe the Z camera serial# starts with AS, as his incorporated the power zoom feature. My research tells me mine is the earlier model of the 414, as the power zoom models came out next. chris

Chris, while I applaud your technical ability ... I must question your investigative ability. For instance, it has been reported that over a period of time ... the internal mechanisms of these cameras were changed so to run at 18 fps. Would it not be important to know if the camera you have came before or after these changes had taken place ... its surely something that I would wish to know. So if you please ... can you post the serial number of your camera so it can be compared to Towner's. The reason for this is important because if the camera you have was made BEFORE the changes had taken place, then the running speed of your camera is a moot point. Thanks, Bill B/H 414: SERIAL# AJ75417 chris

David, The Towner camera has the same frame speed settings as the B/H 414. Animation=1 frame at a time Run Mode=16 FPS Slow Motion=48 FPS I did a couple of simple tests on my B/H 414. Very easy to incorporate. Camera on full wind. 1.Used a marking pen and drew a line on the film after the gate. 2.Used hand held stopwatch and filmed for 1, 3 and 5 seconds. 3.Marked same spot and counted frames run. At intervals of 1, 3 and 5 seconds, my FPS were 16+17. Tried Slow Motion mode twice. 48+50 FPS were the results. chris

Correct me if I am wrong, but experts can play a film at either of those two speeds and tell which one is the correct speed .... do you not agree and if not, then please explain why??? Bill Subjective once again. The CAMERA has to be capable of performing the feat. Show documentation it shoots at 24 FPS? Where does the 8 FPS increase materialize from, in a camera that films at 16 FPS. Or, if one is to believe 18 FPS, a 6 FPS increase from it's overextended speed capability. chris

Since I could barely read it, here is what this part says. Red box enlarged. Now what are the chances that Tina Towner had that 16 FPS LOCK BUTTON engaged while she was filming the limo. That's 16 not 24 chris

This is not rocket science. I have seen this type of thing come up in nature films. For instance, film a horse walking at 16 fps and then at 24 fps and see which one is natural. Mack has said, 'Camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed.' I also know what Gary has said to you. So like I said ... you should post it so everything is on the table. Bill According to mfgr specs, no 8mm cameras run at 18 fps. They run at 16 fps, because that is the PROJECTOR RATE. Camera rate must coordinate with projector rate. That is why there is an American Standards Association. Jack Thanks Jack, I'm not sure they understand the theory of standards. chris

This is not rocket science. I have seen this type of thing come up in nature films. For instance, film a horse walking at 16 fps and then at 24 fps and see which one is natural. Mack has said, 'Camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed.' I also know what Gary has said to you. So like I said ... you should post it so everything is on the table. Bill We don't need analogies for viewing movies. Show us documentation that states the Towner camera films at anything other than 16 FPS. Of course the limo speed isn't reflective of the film FPS. Why do you think that is? It's not the ORIGINAL film. Remember: LESS FRAMES-SAME DISTANCE. MORE FRAMES-SAME DISTANCE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE SAME AMOUNT OF FRAMES, BUT REDISTRIBUTED. And I'm still waiting for your response to limo distance traveled in 161/166 not matching the WC figure of .9 FT. Gary's response was: "Chris, What do I think about your post #55? I think you don't know how to do photo interpretation. Here's how I would approach this simple math problem: The conversion of miles per hour to feet/second is 1.4667. So 11.3 mph (the average speed of the limo on Elm as established by the FBI using the Z, Nix and Muchmore films) equates to 16.57 feet. Using the 5 frame sequence you chose (161 to 166) is 5/18 of a second or .27 seconds. So the distance the limo traveled should be 16.57 x .27 = 4.48 feet. What is the distance from the front bumper to the back side of the right front tire? Well, you can look that up but I think you'll find it's about 4 feet." So who got it wrong, Bill. The WC or the Zfilm? Is there a FRAME problem there also? Sound familiar. BTW, You asked about the syncing of Z, Nix and Muchmore. Think about it. When do these films overlap? It's not real difficult. Think FRAME REDISTRIBUTION. It's all MATH. chris

The original question has NOT been answered. The Towner camera shoots at 16 FPS, NOT 24. The literature/documentation wouldn't state it shoots at 16FPS, if 24 was the correct rate. It doesn't matter what it plays like, that's subjective. It doesn't matter if you've run it through a million projectors. It doesn't matter what transfer methods have been used. The ORIGINAL camera shoots at 16 FPS. Why not run a valid test with it. We know what the outcome would be. chris

Well this is for people who don't wish to remain ignorant of any data that may help them in their research ... Gary Mack: Tina's story never changed: she stopped filming and a second or two later, the first shot sounded. She has given various versions over the years, sometimes using the word "immediately" rather than seconds. We've known each other since 1978 and have been good friends ever since. When I transferred her original film to video several years ago, the technician and I paid close attention to an early scene on the reel of she and her father in a motel swimming pool, splashing water around. We adjusted the transfer speed to about 20fps to where the motion of the water looked normal. But the Dealey Plaza footage was at the end of the reel and, as is well-known from camera tests of Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore, camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed. And this would be for people searching for the TRUTH who can weed out all the "frame" and "frame transfer" B.S. because it's getting real thick. So, here is 16 consecutive frames from a TOWNER HOME MOVIE CAMERA showing the frame edges.. Notice the nice even spacing among those edges. And, if you would like to see these 16 frames play, you can obtain them here. It's around 18 megs in size. http://76.89.67.73:6900/0BCF9/Towner.mov And what a surprise, it takes approx 1 second to play. Had to use 15 FPS as my frame speed, closest I have to 16. So don't be fooled by those who come up with these elaborate stories. It's very simple: The Towner's had a movie camera that filmed at 16 FPS. They have family footage at 16 FPS. They shot limo footage at 16 FPS. What would make ANYONE think any differently is beyond me. chris

A study was done on this site with the Nix, Zapruder, Muchmore, (possibly another one???) and they used the right camera speeds and they were found to be in sync. You might wish to have someone like Mack (or even contact) to make sure that you have your facts correct. Bill For those that would like to read/obtain the document created by Dale Myer's, from which I have posted previously, you can get it here: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm Bill, It's simple: Just have someone provide the documentation that Towner's camera shot at 24 FPS. I don't need to contact Gary. I've supplied my documentation/proof. As far as I know, he's still trying to figure out why the limo movement animation I presented of frame 161-166 doesn't match the WC " Vehicle Speed Analysis" document supplied by Tom Purvis. Why don't you contact him. Eventually, the truth was going to come out, it was just a matter of time. Well, Time's up!!! chris

BTW, For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong. Which means they have all been tampered with. This one's for you, JACK. cheers chris

This post includes information from Dale Myer's work on film sync's. It also includes information from Marcel Dehaeseleer's website. When Myer's does his film sync with multiple films, he includes Tina Towner's in the mix. For sync analysis, he has Towner's film running at 23.3 FPS, which would indicate to me, the camera's frame rate was 24 FPS. Might take a look at how that was deduced. Outlined in one of the red boxes. The Towner camera described at Marcel's site shows this camera runs at 16 FPS. The show "Murder In Dealy Plaza" says Towner was using a "Sears Tower Varizoom 8mm Camera". This is reflected in the photo with the camera, inset and documentation. So Myer's basis his comparison on a camera running at 24 FPS which yields a total of 160+(8 missing frames)=168. Total film time=7.16 SEC X 24 FPS = 168 I have found no documentation that states this camera runs at 24 FPS. If it runs at its stated speed, then we have 16FPS yielding 160 frames = 10 SEC OF FILM. Would 3 extra seconds at the end of the Towner film, made much difference? Well, since acording to Myer's there was a .71 sec gap between the end of Towner and the beginning of Zapruder, then an overlap of about 2.5 seconds would've occured. With Towner panning toward the pedestal, it raises many possibilities. And since I'm discussing film sync's, what would be the possibility that Towner's film duration of 7.16 seconds is almost identical to the time it takes Zapruder to film his opening/non-limo sequence which is 132 frames at 18.3 FPS=7.21 seconds. It's almost as if one film was used as a timing instrument for the other. You know, how long would it take to film the limo coming around the corner. Or maybe someone never stopped filming, thank you David Healy. But, I'm just a conspiracy theorist and these are all coincidences. chris

Speaking from personal experience, when I filmed from up on the pedestal with my B/H 414 camera, after stopping and then restarting, I NEVER had an instance of blurred/movement frames on start up. I did this at least 15 times. Something to ponder. People usually set their target first before they push down the button to start filming. Once they push that button, in this case (18 FPS), good luck with any movement within 3/18 of a second. Highly unlikely. Just take a look at the initial 3 frames without the limo for comparison. chris

Thought this next one might give a little insight into possible frame enlargement manipulation. If you will notice the red arrows point to WC photos from frame 166/185. Why would the WC present 2 different SIZED photos for these frames? By the way, 161 is the same size as 166. Reminds me of the MPI stretched frames. In order to size 185 to fit 166, I had to enlarge it to 107%. The same sized frames have the blue alignment marks in it. The original frames have none. To make it easier for the size difference, put your mouse cursor on the sprocket hole edge as it plays back and forth. chris

Alan, 2 frames looping. Hat stabilized chris

Chris, I've looked at this over the years -- mostly as a result of trying to appreciate what Tom's research has shown. I think it is more than safe to say that there are serious issues with the WC re-enactment figures. I'd go so far as to call them fatally flawed. Your graphic adds additional reinforcement to what Tom has been saying for a while now. Good catch! Thanks Frank, I'm glad you feel this supports what Tom has been showing us for a long time. I think this is "child's play" for him. He's someone who "plain and simple" is just smarter than most. Tom, Your last few posts are PRICELESS. I'm not sure if I will continue with the final frames, as you have "driven the final nail in the coffin". Most appreciative, chris P.S. Wondering if this is worth pursuing.