Myra Bronstein

Tom, you raise a real good question here about the head shot.

First let me say that I am convinced that the first shot was fired from the sewer on the south side of Elm, went through the windshield, nicked JFK's tie and entered his throat. ...

You mean the North side of Elm Gil? I think the video you show focuses on a storm drain North of Elm, unless I'm really turned around.

an examination of the unidentified fingerprint found on a box in the Texas School Book Depository's "sniper's nest" and its connection with LBJ killer Malcolm Wallace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB6kfmaA2wU

Ah, the 34 point match fingerprint. Another piece of evidence that doesn't get nearly enough attention. It's great to pull segments like this out of TMWKK 'cause few people will sit through the hours of those documentaries, but many people will commit to watching a short video. I really like the idea of making bite size pieces out of some bigger works.

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%...20Brussell.html

"Three weeks after the Watergate break-in, while the establishment press was calling it "a caper" and "a third-rate burglary," Mae Brussell completed a manuscript titled "Why Was Martha Mitchell Kidnapped?" She named names—John Mitchell, L. Patrick Gray, Richard Nixon, the FBI, the CIA—and I published her first by-lined article in The Realist.

"The CIA that killed President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy," she wrote, "did a test case in Greece on canceling elections. Andreas Papandreou, often compared with John Kennedy, appeared to have a good chance of winning the Greek election in 1967. The U.S. Army, the CIA and government agencies helped replace their elections with a coup d'etat. . . . The significance of the Watergate affair is that every element essential for a political coup in the United States was assembled at the time of the arrests."

Mae Brussell contends that Nixon's own Watergate plumbers, and the entire intelligence network they represented, were prepared to overthrow Nixon whenever it was deemed necessary by the true powers. Ultimately, she believes, the same men who brought Nixon to power via the Kennedy assassinations were also pulling the strings at Watergate."

Myra, the same guys who backed the Greek coup backed Nixon. The CIA was pumping money into Greece to insure the country didn't go socialist. This money ended up in the hands of right-wing generals, the leader of whom had been on the CIA's payroll for years. Then..coincidence???...Nixon re-emerged on the political scene with the financial backing of a wealthy Greek-American, Thomas Pappas. In order to please his Greek-American backers, Nixon put the most prominent Greek-American, Maryland Governor Spiro Agnew, on the ticket. This is pretty much accepted history. What isn't as well known or established is that the money funding Nixon's campaign originally came from the CIA. I'm not sure if there's sufficient proof of this.

While looking through a book on Greece from the early 70's, however, I did come across a reference to a large public works project--I think it was a dam--that was being built by Greek-American Thomas Pappas. As we now all know, public works projects are quite over-priced, and a lot of the money gets kicked back to corrupt politicians. The thought occurred that the U.S. was funding the Greek government, the government was paying Pappas, and Pappas was kicking the money back to Nixon, who'd arranged the funding for the Greeks. A big circle jerk, at the expense of democracy. Dick Cheney learned by the older Dick's side.

Well that sure is interesting Pat, and frankly I didn't know any of it. Do you think it is related to Watergate?

Sid, I don't know if you'll get a chance to see it, but PBS ran a very interesting program the other day--about the supposedly left-wing media's complicity in the build up to the war. Eric Boehlert from Salon.com said that in the months leading up to the war, the NY Times and Washington Post ran over a hundred articles on the front page making the government's case for war--all based exclusively on White House and Pentagon sources. Meanwhile there were only a handful of articles against the war, all of which ran on the inside. The post also ran something like 30 editorials supporting the war.

The irony is that one national news syndicate, Knight-Ridder, did their jobs and talked to CIA and State Department sources in addition to their White House sources. They questioned the government's case for war, but their articles were never picked up in the big cities and never mentioned on national news programs.

The biggest irony of all, however, is that the program was hosted and led by Bill Moyers, who knows ALL ABOUT Government spin. He was, after all, the Johnson adviser tasked with convincing the media that Oswald acted alone on 11-25-63.

P.S. I just looked for the transcript and saw that the whole program is online here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html

Yes, Knight-Ridder had the only good coverage in the lead up to the invasion.

They've since been purchased...

So much for them.

Memo to David Talbot.

Dear David,

I understand that Salon.com may have an office in or near New York City?

If so, you may be interested to know that a 47-storey steel-framed towerblock collapsed not far from your mailbox more than five years ago - and to this day, no-one can explain how it happened!

Would Salon.com like to look into this?

You may have a scoop on your hands!

Incidentally, it would be worth calling your pals at the BBC. It's reportage on this mysterious event has been in decline since 9/11, but on the day itself, the Beeb actually announced the collapse 20 minutes early. Rumour has it they may have an explanation for this miracle - but they won't share it with licence-paying plebs.

Since we're in agreement that Salon is an uncommonly good news site, and since Talbot is clearly doing his part to shed light on the Kennedy assassinations, will you also be directing your justifiable indignation at some members of the media that haven't served us as well as Talbot Sid?

Just so I'm clear, is this the same David Talbot , whose war-supporting views were discussed in antiwar.com in early 2002: David Talbot and the rise of Warrior Liberalism?

I'd just like to get a sense of the author's credibility and track record for good judgment.

The David Talbot I've heard about wrote:

"From the Gulf War on, the hawks have been on the right side in all the major debates about U.S. intervention in the world's troubles. The application of American military power – to drive back Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, stop Slobodan Milosevic's genocidal campaigns in the Balkans, and destroy the terrorist occupation of Afghanistan – has not just protected US interests, it has demonstrably made the world safer and more civilized."

Is that the same guy?

David Talbot is founder, chairman and editor-in-chief of Salon.com, which I consider about the best progressive news site on the web. Based on that background, and things he's written (e.g., his review of Ultimate Sacrifice which I thought was spot on), I expect his book to be something very worthwhile for truth buffs.

The attached image first came to my attention when perusing the "Architectural Digest" cover story of the sale of Frank Sinatra's last Palm Springs estate.

Whenever I come across a published photo of a library, I try to identify the visible titles. In so doing with this shot, I noted that Sinatra's shoes were resting on the cover of a coffee table book.

After some manipulation, I discovered that directly beneath the heels was a portrait of JFK as it appeared on what I've identified as a Time-Life special issue of assassination coverage.

...

Charles

Interesting observation.

It would be in character for Sinatra.

What issue/date magazine is it Charles? Can you please give specifics. Any idea what the text on the cover says?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine

Goes all the way back to 1923.

Dang.

Random examples:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,938238,00.html

"For seven stormy months Major General Edwin A. ("Ted") Walker, 51, has stood in the center of a controversy about the role that military leaders may properly play in commenting on public affairs. Last week Walker resigned from the U.S. Army—and added to the argument.

The fuss began last April, when Walker was the commanding officer of the 24th Infantry Division in West Germany. Walker was accused by the Overseas Weekly, an independent, American-owned newspaper, of indoctrinating his troops with the far-right tenets of the John Birch Society. In addition, the paper charged that Walker had once publicly stated that former President Harry Truman was "definitely pink," and had pinned the leftist label on Mrs. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, former Secretary of State Dean Acheson and U.N. Ambassador Adlai Stevenson."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,870145,00.html

"Rockefeller is one of that little group of men who sit at the financial hub of the world's wealthiest nation and by their nods give the stop or go sign to enterprises from Bonn to Bangkok. They wield vast powers—and yet must correctly size up situations around the world and reckon on economic and social changes bigger than their own power to control. They cannot sit still or their strength diminishes; but when they move, they must be nimble as well as sure."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,938657,00.html

"A Senate subcommittee wanted to question Texas Oil Millionaire H. L. Hunt, 71, possibly the biggest of the Big Rich, and a man far to the right of McKinley. There were reports that he had put up the money to distribute 102,000 copies to Protestant clergymen around the nation of a violently anti-Catholic, anti-Kennedy sermon by Dallas Baptist Minister W. A. Criswell, who has the biggest white Baptist congregation in the U.S. (It is illegal to distribute a political tract without identifying the source.)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,875296,00.html

"Dallas was shocked. Wrote the Dallas Times Herald in a Page One editorial: "Dallas has been disgraced. There is no other way to view the storm-trooper actions of last night's frightening attack on Adlai Stevenson." Texas Governor John Connally called the affair "an affront to common courtesy and decency." And Mayor Earle Cabell pointed out that the demonstrators were "not our kind of folks."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,929957,00.html

"And now, Mr. President," continued General Butler, "I ask you to fill the vacancy which has just occurred in your Cabinet by appointing me Secretary of State." It took Mr. Roosevelt less than a minute to sign the commission. "Let it be understood," the new Secretary of State told the President, "that henceforth I will act as the nation's executive. You may continue to live here at the White House and draw your salary but you will do and say only what I tell you. If not, you and Vice President Garner will be dealt with as I think best. In that event, as Secretary of State, I shall succeed to the Presidency, as provided by law." The President nodded assent and the U. S. became a Fascist State. Such was the nightmarish page of future U. S. history pictured last week in Manhattan by General Butler himself to the special House Committee investigating Un-American Activities."

Can anyone share details and sources, online or otherwise, on when & how LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover met and became tight?

Was it in 1948?

I'm looking for elaboration on this statement:

"An interesting aside, the Johnson and Hoover friendship dated back to the FBI investigation of the 1948 ballot-rigging case."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofivers...x.php/t565.html

Thanks.

Myra, I don't know when their "relationship" began, but at the time LBJ moved into the White House he was back door neighbors with Hover (literaly, not figuratively), sharing a common fence that had a gate so they could visit each other without going out onto the street.

BK

Ah, that's where that "neighbor" claim comes from.

I was fixin' to ask about that and you saved me the trouble.

Thanks BK.

Can anyone share details and sources, online or otherwise, on when & how LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover met and became tight?

Was it in 1948?

I'm looking for elaboration on this statement:

"An interesting aside, the Johnson and Hoover friendship dated back to the FBI investigation of the 1948 ballot-rigging case."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofivers...x.php/t565.html

Thanks.

The following passage clearly suggests that you can't believe anything in Hersch's book or "Curt's notes," whichever one is lying:

"In September 1963, while frolicking poolside with one of his sexual partners, JFK tore a groin muscle. He had to wear a stiff shoulder-to-groin brace that locked his body in a rigid upright position. It was far more constraining than his usual back brace, which he continued to wear. The two braces made it impossible for JFK to bend in reflex when he was struck in the neck by a bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald."

JFK was not wearing any "shoulder-to-groin brace" when he was shot. And I'm sick and tired of reading that "he was struck in the neck by a bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald."

Hersh was a paid hatchet man when he wrote that book as part of the orchestrated eternal post assassination character assassination of President Kennedy. He has no credibility, and is pretty much a waste of skin.

Uh, at the risk of provoking further corporal punishment, would you be so kind as to direct me to a resource where I can see when/how/etc "a government panel subsequently concluded that the HSCA was full of crap"?

Here's a link to an article in the Washington Post from 2001 that discusses the National Academy of Sciences panel, also known as the Ramsey Panel after the physicist who headed it, that concluded in 1982 that the "shots" heard on the DPD dictabelt are just random noise.

The study referred to in the article's headline is an article published in 2001 by D.B. Thomas, purportiing to show that the Ramsey Panel was wrong and the HSCA was right. I don't think there is any consensus among researchers on the issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

Here is the Thomas presentation on the Acoustical Evidence:

http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/hearnoevil.htm

Thanks for the links Kathy and Ron.

...But I'm gonna admit to being confused about we're even discussing.

Ok, so as I look back over the thread we start out talking about whether Mack is a sincere researcher or an establishment mouthpiece. Ron says Mack believes that the acoustical evidence is valid ergo (I paraphrase) that makes him a "far out conspiracist." I point out that the HCSA, which produced the acoustical evidence, is establishment plus Mack told me the hard evidence says Oswald pulled the trigger. Ron then says the HCSA conclusions were crap. So where does that leave us?

Mack believes in a gov't produced crap accoustical study and a gov't produced patsy set up therefore he is a a "far out conspiracist"?

Huh?

Does anyone have an exchange of letters printed in the July 1962 issue of Life magazine, supposedly pages 30-34, where David Rockefeller and President Kennedy were debating economic policies?

Donald Gibson mentions it in "Battling Wall Street."

(There's one on ebay right now but the seller hasn't told me if it has the material I'm seeking.)

Hi, Myra

How much is the seller asking for that issue LIFE Mag. Thanks.

H.J. Dean

It's at $6.99 opening bid (not met) right now Harry.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

I got a reply from the seller (below) but still haven't confirmed it has the Rockefeller/Kennedy letter exchange I'm after.

Q>"Could you please tell me if pages 30-34 have material (an article or letters) related to David Rockefeller

>and President John F. Kennedy?

>Thank you."

A>"HI,There betwin page 30 to 36 is about 4 pages of Kennedy Family with large black and white pictures.

>Tks"

I'll probably follow John's advice and hunt for it at the library.

NOTICE

Myra

I just ck'd the ebay link you gave, the Canada person's LIFE Mag. is not the one I have

or the one you are looking for..........The Mag. you seek {this one} has an air balloon

picture on it's cover, and has the exact very interesting artical you mention.

H.J. Dean

Thank you Harry! I'll PM you now.

Does anyone have an exchange of letters printed in the July 1962 issue of Life magazine, supposedly pages 30-34, where David Rockefeller and President Kennedy were debating economic policies?

Donald Gibson mentions it in "Battling Wall Street."

(There's one on ebay right now but the seller hasn't told me if it has the material I'm seeking.)

Hi, Myra

How much is the seller asking for that issue LIFE Mag. Thanks.

H.J. Dean

It's at $6.99 opening bid (not met) right now Harry.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

I got a reply from the seller (below) but still haven't confirmed it has the Rockefeller/Kennedy letter exchange I'm after.

Q>"Could you please tell me if pages 30-34 have material (an article or letters) related to David Rockefeller

>and President John F. Kennedy?

>Thank you."

A>"HI,There betwin page 30 to 36 is about 4 pages of Kennedy Family with large black and white pictures.

>Tks"

I'll probably follow John's advice and hunt for it at the library.

It's the most powerful music video I've ever seen.

Haunting.

Does anyone have an exchange of letters printed in the July 1962 issue of Life magazine, supposedly pages 30-34, where David Rockefeller and President Kennedy were debating economic policies?

Donald Gibson mentions it in "Battling Wall Street."

(There's one on ebay right now but the seller hasn't told me if it has the material I'm seeking.)

The Congressional HSCA concluded that acoustical evidence pointed to a conspiracy in the murder of President Kennedy.

So going along with that is by no means "far out," it's lock-step establishment.

I believe that a government panel subsequently concluded that the HSCA was full of crap, confirming what the FBI had already concluded.

I don't understand how you can characterize anything that purports to prove conspiracy to be "lock-step establishment."

Anyone who can make such a statement deserves a spanking.

Hey, getting a little kinky there!

Kathy

And high time too!

Let's generate a little traffic.

The Congressional HSCA concluded that acoustical evidence pointed to a conspiracy in the murder of President Kennedy.

So going along with that is by no means "far out," it's lock-step establishment.

I believe that a government panel subsequently concluded that the HSCA was full of crap, confirming what the FBI had already concluded.

I don't understand how you can characterize anything that purports to prove conspiracy to be "lock-step establishment."

Anyone who can make such a statement deserves a spanking.

Hah! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ironically, I do in fact deserve a spanking for everything I've ever said except the post you're responding to Ron.

Mack told me that he believed that Lee Oswald pulled the trigger.

That's what I call lockstep establishment.

Uh, at the risk of provoking further corporal punishment, would you be so kind as to direct me to a resource where I can see when/how/etc "a government panel subsequently concluded that the HSCA was full of crap"?

Excerpts from a speech Lyndon Johnson gave about the Secret Service in a special presentation to James J. Rowley at the White House on November 23rd, 1968.

"As long as I live I am going to have a very special memory of this extraordinary group of men and a sentimental, affectionate feeling for each of them.

...

No doubt. Without their help he never would have been promoted.

Chronicles the Secret Service's reduction of President Kennedy's protection and its last-minute changes for the Dallas motorcade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QAWiIRgx0g

Excellent work Gil! I mean excellent.

You're focusing on areas that need more attention paid: bullet hole in windshield, complicit SS.

This is one of your best videos. Very powerful stuff.

Glad you included the notorious Rybka stand down order from Roberts.

And footage of Palamara; I've never seen that before. Read his online book of course.

Yeah, Boring and Roberts; I know he suspects them strongly.

I'd add Kellerman and Greer.

Stealing the body from Parkland at gunpoint... how suspicious is that?

And that's just the SS agents who were (IMO) in on the plot.

Every one of the Cellar drinkers was, at the very least, an unwitting accessory.

You packed a lot of info into this video.

Boffo stuff.

These must be a ton of work for you but please keep 'em coming.

The last I heard, Gary Mack believes that the acoustical evidence is valid. That not only makes him a "conspiracist," but some would say that it makes him a "far out" one (particularly since Officer McLain was allegedly too far out when the shots were fired to be the open-mike source).

I assume that Gary also still believes in Badgeman. I'm personally still on the fence on Badgeman (no pun intended), so Gary is more far out than I am on that.

Gary has been very helpful to me and to others. Some may say that a conspiracist should not be working at the Sixth Floor Museum, that it's "selling out." IMO it's good to have at least one conspiracist on the premises.

The Congressional HSCA concluded that acoustical evidence pointed to a conspiracy in the murder of President Kennedy.

So going along with that is by no means "far out," it's lock-step establishment.

FWIW here's his answer when I asked what he believes on 10/26/06:

Myra>Are you personally of the opinion that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President Kennedy, and had no accomplices?

Gary Mack>Everyone who knows me knows I personally believe the HSCA acoustics evidence of two gunmen.

>All known hard evidence says Oswald pulled the trigger.

Thank you Gil for reminding us what Gary has said. I know there are even more quotable moments, but this is good.

Gary, we have spoken over the phone and emailed to each other, and I do not forget those exchanges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLFOzwsYSM

I must be in the Twilight Zone. From what I know about Gary Mack, he's an absolute sell-out. I guess he couldn't find something else to do for a living. His museum acquires things about the Assassination, which they squirrel away. But his biggest assassination venture was taking people for an open limo ride down Elm Street. The Ultimate Thrill.

Gary discovered Badgeman. This is a cop behind the fence on the Grassy Knoll, shooting at Kennedy. HardHatMan is beside him. He has heckled a Professor talking about conspiracy in the past. He is paid to say Oswald did it alone. I don't understand why you have such admiration for him.

Kathy Collins

We reside in the same Twilight Zone Kathy. I consider Mack to be a prime spokesman for the establishment cover story.

And an excessively aggressive one at that--repeatedly sending emails with the party line to people after being told not to, and asking that they parrot his stories on the list.

If he has something legit to say I think he would be on the forum saying it, where questions can be asked and additional information revealed and an actual discussion can ensue. Instead he hides behind forum members and asks them to post for him.

Why should anyone care about what Cockburn thinks?

He is just another establishment stooge.

Jack

Which is the perfect segue into a quote from a review I found at Amazon. Always good to revive a thread like this periodically so others know who the moles are (suspected to be):

""Battling Wall Street: The Kennedy Presidency" is great reading for people who want to move beyond books about the mechanics of the Kennedy assassination. The book helps explain why the "Eastern establishment" and a lot of other influential people, might want to get rid of President Kennedy. Another book, "History Will Not Absolve Us : Orwellian Control, Public Denial, & the Murder of President Kennedy" provides additional pieces of the puzzle by explaining how the American establishment, including leading establishment liberals like Noam Chomsky and Alexander Cockburn, have worked to sell the Warren Commision's 'lone gunman' cover-up. The amazing thing about the Kennedy assassination is that, despite a lot of nonsense coming from the mainstream media, the American people know it wasn't a lone gunman and the killers didn't do us a favor."

http://www.amazon.com/Battling-Wall-Street...9623&sr=8-1

Hi Gil, Myra.....

Thanks again for the videos.....

You may be interested in this study by Doug Weldon on the hole through the windshield.

A shot from the South side....also where the smell of gunsmoke has also been mentioned..

at the time...

I await his book, which will be forthcoming one of these days....

His studies are also included in Dr.Fetzers books...

Gil.....Here are a couple of photos of the storm drain on the North side of the overpass...for now.

and yes it is said that there was another exactly like it on the South side..both were situated on the angle part of

said fence and were out of site, to those on the overpass at the time..Doug mentions the drains in his work...

One is showing Jack Brazil, in the North side storm drain, the other, one of Jim Garrison's

men entering to examine such....

1..

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=35

2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=226720

B.......

FWIW Mark Lane, in his fictional account of the assassination "Executive Action" (the book version) has one of the assassins coming up through a storm drain around Elm.

I sorta figure Lane knows as much about the details of President Kennedy's murder as anyone.

...

I believe that the tracheostomy was enlarged prior to the Bethesda autopsy in an attempt to remove the bullet. I believe that this was done at the Walter Reed Army Hospital. The bullet was removed and given to the Secret Service, who then handed it over to the FBI at Bethesda. The SS received a receipt for that "missile". I also believe that there WAS a bullet found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital, that that bullet was the one that had entered Kennedy's back and did not exit, but because it was fired from a rifle that was not Oswald's, it was substituted with a bullet that had (CE 399).

FWIW Gil, I think the trach was done at Parkland as they attempted to save the President's life. Did they enlarge it when they removed the "missile"? I didn't know that.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Bethesda vs Walter Reed, but I accept the premise in Best Evidence that the body was secretly flown to Walter Reed for alteration while the casket went to Bethesda. (Is that what you're saying?)

I thought the FBI (O'Neil and the other guy?) observed the throat "missile" removed at the Bethesda "autopsy."

It is listed on the FBI receipt.

I think it's generally accepted (again FWIW) that the bullet on the Parkland stretcher was placed there by Ruby, and is the infamous magic bullet given its pristine nature (i.e., no way it went through a gun barrel or a human body).